When Is God Mode Getting Nerfed?

[Nimis]

So at level 50+, when not using Iron Skin, "u Can die in a instand", while using Iron Skin will let you pass with just "some skill". No problem here about it being a crutch to use at levels much higher than otherwise attainable?

Also, what's a instand?

Instant hehe U know like right away.

also i am not talking about level but waves

 

U saying that wave 50 defense should not be optainable? wel that a rong the Highest i have seen people go to is wave 85 With Corpus of around level 300. dont forget that the higher u go the longer it takes to kill making u need to use iron skin a few times to kill a enemy or even a group making u use alot of energy and perhaps not even having new orbs drop from the enemy's u kill

and all other frames run true there Ammo clips to kill the enemy's.

 

Rhino is able to tank (like it says in the describtion of the Warframe) but dont forget The damage Rhino can output is limited making it just a tank on higher levels and no dmg with a Bit of Crowd control.

I dont see the need to Nerf a frame that can only do so much.

When u wanna do some serious defense there is not 1 Frame that can solo or carry a team It all depents on to Combo of Frames used and the mods the player chose to use.

 

i know the people who got to wave 85 did around 4 hours of testing non stop to see what kind of combo whould be the best to get to make it to the wave they had in mind.

and that is not just Warframe testing but also weapons and Warframe Combo's to see with work the best.

 

By all mean if the dev feel Iron skin is OP then by all means nerf it.

i just dont see it as a OP skill if u look at higher level defense.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Nimis

[PaperAlien]

also i am not talking about level but waves

 

U saying that wave 50 defense should not be optainable? wel that a rong the Highest i have seen people go to is wave 85 With Corpus of around level 300. dont forget that the higher u go the longer it takes to kill making u need to use iron skin a few times to kill a enemy or even a group making u use alot of energy and perhaps not even having new orbs drop from the enemy's u kill

I meant the same.

I did not say wave 50 should be unattainable. I presume the group that reached 85 would have included certain frames with crutch abilities? Most likely a Rhino? When I mean "otherwise attainable", I mean the wave number that a person (the same person, of course) would reach without using this particular mechanic (Iron Skin in this case), as opposed to when using it. If you end up dying instantly without Iron Skin, but using Iron Skin lets you survive using only "some skill" in the same conditions, then Iron Skin is a crutch that lets you play at waves much higher than you could normally play without Iron Skin, and therefore arguing that changing it would no longer allow people reliant on this strategy to play in such a way is not a valid argument against changing it.

Edited May 15, 2013 by PaperAlien

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Why isn't this thead dead yet?

[Schokoladenonkel]

I meant the same.

I did not say wave 50 should be unattainable. I presume the group that reached 85 would have included certain frames with crutch abilities? Most likely a Rhino? When I mean "otherwise attainable", I mean the wave number that a person (the same person, of course) would reach without using this particular mechanic (Iron Skin in this case), as opposed to when using it. If you end up dying instantly without Iron Skin, but using Iron Skin lets you survive using only "some skill" in the same conditions, then Iron Skin is a crutch that lets you play at waves much higher than you could normally play without Iron Skin.

 

I agree with what paper's saying here. Also people really have to stop focusing on high level defense for their arguments so much. It's only a very specific time in 1 mission type and you shouldn't use it to measure a skill, at least not exclusively. In other words, if I put what paper says in another context it means nothing else than, that at normal level enemies (Level 1-55) it is extremly powerful.

[Nimis]

I agree with what paper's saying here. Also people really have to stop focusing on high level defense for their arguments so much. It's only a very specific time in 1 mission type and you shouldn't use it to measure a skill, at least not exclusively. In other words, if I put what paper says in another context it means nothing else than, that at normal level enemies (Level 1-55) it is extremly powerful.

yea agree on that. but thats not a reason to Say its OP if people only see it in the lower level stuff. i think all frames work oke with exeption of some skills just needing a rework on the level 1-55 things. currently the End game is Defense High level.

But what about update 8 u think that wil just be some lvl 30 stuff again?

wel i hope not i hope they keep upping the level with every new planet/system added to the game. Its difficult to say a Skill is OP because there is no end game and every player has there mods diffrently they might all use the same mods but those last points in some mods make a Huge Diffrence in the power of a skill.

[ShockTart]

iron skin needs no nerf, its fine the way it is.

[Aerensiniac]

Why isn't this thead dead yet?

>>Bumps the thread just to ask why its not dead yet

Edited May 15, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[XDeathCoreX]

A Warframe like HULK that never backs down. Keeps dashing forward sending enemies flying. Warframe needed a HULK and now it got one and with Iron Skin he's perfect. If only he could fly.

 

A Warframe that can withstand Wolverines claws is a plus.

Rhino = HULK

Let's not nerf the HULK. NERF MAKE HULK ANGRY! :)

[Adalonie]

dun nerf the frames... buff the ai instead....

[Kattefjaes]

Instant hehe U know like right away.

also i am not talking about level but waves

 

U saying that wave 50 defense should not be optainable? wel that a rong

 

 

 

Sometimes, mere words are not enough.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

dun nerf the frames... buff the ai instead....

 

This.

[Ageless_Emperion]

Could you do me a favor and cite this claim of yours? By all means, quote a lie I've made, while you're at it, also quote where I've 'shouted' that "I'm the only one that's right, and wish to enforce my opinion on everyone" You are all welcome to have you're opinions on this matter. I don't care if I can change your mind.

 

I see what the issue here is for some of you. Since all this negative feed back has yet to change my mind, in other words, your opinion forced onto ME, you think I'm trying to force my opinion onto YOU. Sorry that you feel that way. My bad?

 

You really think Link and Iron skin doesn't need a change? Well, like it or not dojo is coming and rebalances will have to be made anyways. Another FACT.

 

 

 Hard to answer that question as those are two different abilities used in two different ways. If you are talking about Trinity it's more that 15 seconds of god mode. If the mobs aren't being burned down with AoE, and the god modes can't help 'cause "that doesn't kill enemies", then the cryopod gets destroyed and we all lose anyways. Hey look, something else that has nothing to do with this topic.

 

At the end of the day, it's still god mode, it's still tacky, and should still be changed. IN MY OPINION. whew almost did it again...

 

1. Those abilities dont impact YOUR gameplay in any way. In fact when a rhino is standing there rezzing your self while in iron skin are you going to complain?

 

2. Other abilities outshine them which is why you don't see trinities or rhinos very often. This is NOT a maybe, they do, its simple. You press one button and everything around dies horribly. I run 9 different frames and although rhino was one of the first few it has now long been sitting collecting dust because it does not have enough utility to help my team in regular play. See what I did there, I went on to play other frames instead of screaming nerf this.

 

3. Some people want to have the ability to facetank, it can be fun for them. You want to take that away because why? Oh because it doesn't appeal to you as player...really, please have an ego check, I think you might have a problem.

 

Seriously why does this thread exist? The only arguments being made against iron skin in it is that its "tacky" or "mindless" ability. If the the strongest points you can make are that the ability does not appeal to you and to save face you don't want to compare to other abilities you really have no reason to have a conversation since its boiling down to "I want this cause of reasons...".

[stacey69]

Link, and Iron Skin are so danged good...

 

Just saying

 

EDIT 5/14

 

Hey there, returning from the back of the bus for a brief moment. I'm going to summarize my suggestions here for easy access. Skim through the pages at your own peril :)

 

Perhaps changing the god mode effects of Iron Skin and Link would get players to play a bit more creatively.

 

Iron Skin:

Maybe change it to a damage reduction, that scales similar to Overheat (91% DR Fully moded w/ Focus)

Keeps CC immunity

Can still activate sliding, jumping, etc

 

Link:

Maybe change this to a damage reduction, scalling something like 30/30/40/50% affected by Focus (possible 65% damage transfer if my math is correct)

Keeps CC immunity and damage reduction ONLY if an enemy is near to share with (or change the name)

Same activation circumstances

 

Trinity would heal more often, and Rhino would actually need healing... This in my opinion would create a synergy between the two Warframe's abilities, and all with out that hard code you were talking about in your live stream.

 

People seem to think Trinity is a healer, and Rhino is a tank, and rightfully so. Let's take the tankyness away from Trin, and the need for heals to Rhino.

 

That is all for now. With out further ado, I shall return to the back of the bus to incite more frenzied hysteria >=]

If you could see peoples health through the UI then this would be fine. As the game is 99% single player even in multiplayer then NO leave the abilities as they are.

 

Press Z = you stop moving and cant do anything other than look at players health. This is poor.

If it was on screen all the time then yes. You glance, you see damage. You go tank what's causing the damage or heal the person taking the damage.

 

The problem is De cant get the synergy right between all the frames. Its far to complicated for them and way down there list. This is why I believe the spells your asking to be changed wont be for a long time.

[iPrevenge]

This thread is terrible. 

[finaLfrontier]

Those abilities dont impact YOUR gameplay in any way. In fact when a rhino is standing there rezzing your self while in iron skin are you going to complain?

Actually yes, in a situation where we should flat out die, this does upset me. Obviously others are ok with it.

 

 

I run 9 different frames and although rhino was one of the first few it has now long been sitting collecting dust because it does not have enough utility to help my team in regular play. See what I did there, I went on to play other frames instead of screaming nerf this.

The difference between you and I here, is that where you quit and moved on to other frames, I've decided to point an issue out that needs addressing. Not simply just play the game, but you know, partake in beta testing...

 

 

If you could see peoples health through the UI then this would be fine. As the game is 99% single player even in multiplayer then NO leave the abilities as they are.

 

Press Z = you stop moving and cant do anything other than look at players health. This is poor.

If it was on screen all the time then yes. You glance, you see damage. You go tank what's causing the damage or heal the person taking the damage.

 

The problem is De cant get the synergy right between all the frames. Its far to complicated for them and way down there list. This is why I believe the spells your asking to be changed wont be for a long time.

I'm very well aware of how bad the ingame UI is. I've even commented on posts about it. Seen some great ideas and I'd bet good money that it will be fixed soon. There is so much more that could be said about other issues... This topic is simply about god mode

 

You may very well be right about devs taking awhile to tackle these problems. Though still, nothing wrong with pointing them out

Edited May 15, 2013 by finaLfrontier

[Dr.KennethNoiswater]

God mode, man that game looks bad enough already and it got mediocre reviews.

 

 I don't think it really needs a nerf....

[ZWarhammer]

How about no ? cause then there would be no point to a Rhino.

Just Think:

Rhino charge: a better ability already exists it's called Slash Dash used by Excalibur

Radial blast: low damage low crowd control ability plenty other frames top that easily not even used by most Rhinos.

Rhino Stomp: plenty of other ults can top this in most cases most obvious one being Banshee her ult grants immunity/crowd control,S#&$ tons of damage,cleans the entire map if modded.

So guess what ? the only ability we have left that makes Rhino stand out is Iron Skin, nerf that and he becomes even worse than Nyx who is right now considered under powered but at least she still has a skill that no other frame has (Chaos) so there is a reason to get her.

[Ageless_Emperion]

Actually yes, in a situation where we should flat out die, this does upset me. Obviously others are ok with it.

 

 

The difference between you and I here, is that where you quit and moved on to other frames, I've decided to point an issue out that needs addressing. Not simply just play the game, but you know, partake in beta testing...

 

 

I'm very well aware of how bad the ingame UI is. I've even commented on posts about it. Seen some great ideas and I'd bet good money that it will be fixed soon. There is so much more that could be said about other issues... This topic is simply about god mode

 

You may very well be right about devs taking awhile to tackle these problems. Though still, nothing wrong with pointing them out

 

Can't say if troll or just that stupid...

 

So your entire argument is that of in a situation where a team was to fail and there exists a frame or two that prevent it from failing by performing the role they were designed for by the dev team, your upset because they didn't fail? Are you @(*()$ with me? Do you read what you write dude? Adressing an issue that exists? You mean abilities that are functioning as intended and which upset you because you don't fail enough in the game. I am sorry that I don't partake in the same kind of masochistic playstyle that you have in mind, but I think the only issues present here are wholly in your head.

 

Move on, seriosuly, go play guild wars 2, they have a dungeon system that is sure to tickle your fancy in just the way you like it. You'll be reging when the trash mobs will be ripping you to shreds way before the easy boss fight.

 

What is it with the self proclaimed standard establishers that think their opinion is what the game should be defined by, really. Suggesting something for the development of the game is one thing, but looking at things that work and trying to break them because they don't work how YOU like them to work. That's just being an asshat.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Ageless_Emperion

[Schokoladenonkel]

How about no ? cause then there would be no point to a Rhino.

Just Think:

Rhino charge: a better ability already exists it's called Slash Dash used by Excalibur

Radial blast: low damage low crowd control ability plenty other frames top that easily not even used by most Rhinos.

Rhino Stomp: plenty of other ults can top this in most cases most obvious one being Banshee her ult grants immunity/crowd control,S#&$ tons of damage,cleans the entire map if modded.

So guess what ? the only ability we have left that makes Rhino stand out is Iron Skin, nerf that and he becomes even worse than Nyx who is right now considered under powered but at least she still has a skill that no other frame has (Chaos) so there is a reason to get her.

 

Just because his other abilities do need changing, doesn't mean his Iron Skin is fine. I don't say I won't accept valid arguments to not change/nerf Iron Skin, but you can't argue about 1 skill, saying the others are crap, so he might as well have his 1 overpowered skill. I posted it earlier, Iron Skin in MY opinion does need changing, AS WELL as the rest of his skillset (without Rhino Charge).

[Ageless_Emperion]

Just because his other abilities do need changing, doesn't mean his Iron Skin is fine. I don't say I won't accept valid arguments to not change/nerf Iron Skin, but you can't argue about 1 skill, saying the others are crap, so he might as well have his 1 overpowered skill. I posted it earlier, Iron Skin in MY opinion does need changing, AS WELL as the rest of his skillset (without Rhino Charge).

 

I am rather tired of hearing people quote their opinion as a legitimate source to support their argument. The ability does no exist in a vacuum and neither does rhino or trinity. How about you throw out some facts that prove what you want other people to believe becuase I am sorry, but your opinion isn't worth much.

[MJ12]

Just because his other abilities do need changing, doesn't mean his Iron Skin is fine. I don't say I won't accept valid arguments to not change/nerf Iron Skin, but you can't argue about 1 skill, saying the others are crap, so he might as well have his 1 overpowered skill. I posted it earlier, Iron Skin in MY opinion does need changing, AS WELL as the rest of his skillset (without Rhino Charge).

 

Riddle me this.

 

What does Iron Skin do that hiding behind/on top of a box, peeking out just enough to shoot, doesn't do?

 

Well, it protects you from grenades and poison. That's really about it.

 

Maybe it should be turned into Rhino's ultimate (while Radial Blast and Rhino Stomp should be fused and Rhino be given some new ability to, I don't know, regenerate shields/health over time? Dunno. Something defensive) but increasing its cost and removing the ability to turn invulnerable would actually cause problems with the fact that given how much DPS even mid-high level enemies can do now with their damage buffs (I swear your average Grineer Lancer or Corpus Crewman is doing 200+dps, and let's not talk about Chargers which have something like double that) 75% damage reduction would be largely useless, because ten guys shooting at you would still down you in less than 2-3 seconds.

 

Iron Skin right now is what's holding Rhino together. I'm going to borrow an Exalted statement and change it a bit for this thread.

 

Don't fix invulnerability until you fix lethality. If you expect Rhino to be doing any tanking at all, you're going to have to massively alter the entire damage/survivability paradigm of the game so that 75% DR would actually be worthwhile if you're charging around in the open instead of hiding behind boxes. Frankly, the ability to get invulnerability from things like Iron Skin and Link are all that's holding Rhino and Trinity together and making them usable despite their extremely niche/weak other powers.

 

Any fix for Link and Iron Skin is going to have to come with a total rebuild of the rest of their powers as well as a serious reevaluation of lethality of attacks against slower Warframes in general. Unlike Loki, you can't ninja-dodge every single shot coming your way while ADSing in a Rhino, he actually dies a lot faster than Loki does IME.

[Schokoladenonkel]

I am rather tired of hearing people quote their opinion as a legitimate source to support their argument. The ability does no exist in a vacuum and neither does rhino or trinity. How about you throw out some facts that prove what you want other people to believe becuase I am sorry, but your opinion isn't worth much.

 

You didn't read my post right. I didn't argue with my opinion, all I said was that you can't judge a skill by looking at others. After that I said, in MY (I actually wrote the MY in capital letters, so that people like you wouldn't make the mistake you made there) opinion his skills need changing.

 

 

 

So, just try to read and understand a post next time, before you start arguing about something.

 

 

 

Riddle me this.

 

What does Iron Skin do that hiding behind/on top of a box, peeking out just enough to shoot, doesn't do?

 

Well, it protects you from grenades and poison. That's really about it.

 

Maybe it should be turned into Rhino's ultimate (while Radial Blast and Rhino Stomp should be fused and Rhino be given some new ability to, I don't know, regenerate shields/health over time? Dunno. Something defensive) but increasing its cost and removing the ability to turn invulnerable would actually cause problems with the fact that given how much DPS even mid-high level enemies can do now with their damage buffs (I swear your average Grineer Lancer or Corpus Crewman is doing 200+dps, and let's not talk about Chargers which have something like double that) 75% damage reduction would be largely useless, because ten guys shooting at you would still down you in less than 2-3 seconds.

 

Iron Skin right now is what's holding Rhino together. I'm going to borrow an Exalted statement and change it a bit for this thread.

 

Don't fix invulnerability until you fix lethality. If you expect Rhino to be doing any tanking at all, you're going to have to massively alter the entire damage/survivability paradigm of the game so that 75% DR would actually be worthwhile if you're charging around in the open instead of hiding behind boxes. Frankly, the ability to get invulnerability from things like Iron Skin and Link are all that's holding Rhino and Trinity together and making them usable despite their extremely niche/weak other powers.

 

Any fix for Link and Iron Skin is going to have to come with a total rebuild of the rest of their powers as well as a serious reevaluation of lethality of attacks against slower Warframes in general. Unlike Loki, you can't ninja-dodge every single shot coming your way while ADSing in a Rhino, he actually dies a lot faster than Loki does IME.

 

Not gonna adress this fully now, because I really need to go to bed (1am here), but just in short:

 

Don't take the given 75% as something that people wanting a change absolutely want, it's just a number. Maybe this needs to be higher or maybe it needs a different mechanic. It's just an example. Also, this 75% is before any buffs given by other mods, always take that into account too.

 

Also, we are kind of on the same page about all his skills needing some changes, before anything is done to Iron Skin. A plain nerf of Iron Skin is the last I want at the moment, which is why maybe this thread is the wrong place to discuss this. (People always tend to give threads these provoking titles, to get more attention)

 

So, good night guys.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Schokoladenonkel

[Ageless_Emperion]

You didn't read my post right. I didn't argue with my opinion, all I said was that you can't judge a skill by looking at others. After that I said, in MY (I actually wrote the MY in capital letters, so that people like you wouldn't make the mistake you made there) opinion his skills need changing.

 

 

 

So, just try to read and understand a post next time, before you start arguing about something.

 

Arguing that a skill is overpowered requires it to be compared to something, a benchmark of some sort that is the common standard above which it rises. Your arguing that something is overpowered and you don't want to compare it to anything because why? Right, so you can say something without a shred of solid information to back up your opinion which is all it is in the end, your opinion. That aside, the point still stands that your opinion is not worth much and its not the currency of a valid discussion of whether something is or is not balanced.

 

I read what you wrote, maybe its time you do the same.

[Schokoladenonkel]

Arguing that a skill is overpowered requires it to be compared to something, a benchmark of some sort that is the common standard above which it rises. Your arguing that something is overpowered and you don't want to compare it to anything because why? Right, so you can say something without a shred of solid information to back up your opinion which is all it is in the end, your opinion. That aside, the point still stands that your opinion is not worth much and its not the currency of a valid discussion of whether something is or is not balanced.

 

I read what you wrote, maybe its time you do the same.

 

You can't be serious with what you're writing. And again you did NOT understand what I wrote, it's one simple sentence just try to wrap your brain around it, it's not that hard.

 

To answer your post:

 

1. I was making a point. Try to understand that, I'm not arguing wether it actually IS or IS NOT overpowered.

 

2. There is no SOLID information about how something plays. Some people feel one way about it, some feel another.

 

3. I never said I don't want to compare it or take it out of the picture of a skillset, all I said was you can't judge it by looking at other skills only.

 

4. Ofcourse someone's opinion is a VALID argument in a discussion of wether or not something feels overpowered or not, how else would you judge it? Do the maths?

 

5. I will stop talking to you now, because I actually value my time too much, to waste it on people like you.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Schokoladenonkel

[Timmuk]

Re cap of the OP

 

"Rock is overpowered, paper is fine!" - Scissors