Don't Nerf Marelok Its Not Op

[BluelitHalo]

I don't get why this thread is still alive.

First we have some asinine plea to not nerf the Marelok, despite its downsides of recoil and noticeable multishot spread at range. The topic has been settled quickly, and now it's been derailed into a discussion on (un)importance of nerfs, using the Synoid nerf in particular as a basis.

Could we get a lock here?

Edited April 18, 2015 by Sonitorum

[Paradoxbomb]

This philosophy of a set 'balance' where everything is equal yet unique, for everyone is... Ignorant. For lack of a better word. There will never be an end to this cycle. One will always come out on top, in someone's opinion and will be subsequently nerfed. What's the goal to this 'balance' anyhow? Make all weapons the same? Just as viable? Every weapon would be reduced to "mastery fodder" with 'skins' and effects being the deciding factor.

 

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a tiered weapon system. Are there not clear examples of this already? Upgrade Lato > Bolto > Akbolto > AkJagara. Why would you waste the time besides mastery fodder if all these guns were 'just as viable'. You can't tell me the single weapon should match the dual wielded one.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure you'll tell me anyhow. Constructive feedback would be appreciated.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with a Tiering system, in fact I would be all for it, but it actually needs to exist first. As it is there's like, what, 7-10 weapons that even have an MR lock in the first place, and of those weapons the required rank is rarely respective of their actual power. Consistency is not DE's strong point, and it really irks me (and many others I'm sure) that the time, resources, etc. invested into many features of the game is rarely ever consistent with the end product.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Paradoxbomb

[akira_him]

Just my observation in this 2 years:

Whenever DE rework on anything

they mess it up every time

if they rework it for the 2nd time, they make it even worst (yeah, Kohm and SG are best examples)

and they never make changes for the 3rd time

[Rakosta_Kai]

It's basically the same idea as a seatbelt: there's no guarantee that a seatbelt will protect you, but I wear one anyways.

 

Some things do just need a nerf. Not many things, but a few. Just because we're worried about what might happen doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge that.

 

And you need to separate "advocates for the Synoid being nerfed" and "advocates for the nerf we received". There are people who think the Synoid is totally fine now, I'm just not one of them.

There are never guarantees in anything.

There are "probable likelihoods" however.

 

You wear a seatbelt not because of the guarantee of safety, but because the chances of safety are dramatically increased by wearing it.

 

I have yet to see a weapon in this game that needed a nerf because I know power creep will have moderated it's power contribution in a year's time.

 

If it gets the nerf, the chances that it will be ruined are rather high.

And... Since DE doesn't iterate those changes, people are left with that ruined item.

 

It sucks when the item costs 24 hours and resource components.

 

It really sucks when that item costs 24 days, and hard to acquire prime parts.

 

 

FWIW, I didn't think you were one of them... and I don't think that those saying the Synoid is fine are being honest.

That's just my opinion.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Padre_Akais

[vaugahn]

I have yet to see a weapon in this game that needed a nerf because I know power creep will have moderated it's power contribution in a year's time.

 

That's not a good thing. They've been slowly getting better about curbing power creep on weapons, now they need to start thinking about meaningful attempts at game balance.

 

Just saying "eh, we shouldn't even try" is pointless.

 

and I don't think that those saying the Synoid is fine are being honest.

 

I'm sure they are. Everyone has different opinions about everything.

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

Not necessarily. The idea is that similar weapons are equally attractive choices, not that all weapons have the same flat amount of power. A weapon that has less power than something else can still be an equally attractive choice through other means.

 

The end goal would be to make it so players don't feel like they're being pushed towards the several meta options.

 

"Similar weapons are equally attractive choices" Sounds like a tier to me. I understand, with the Synoid Gammacor, I saw people using it, and immediately thought I need to have it. It did need a nerf, but not the type as it received. As a syndicate weapon, which seem designed to be secondaries used as primaries (effect only charges when out). It's ammo efficiency does not support using this way anymore. Some of the other syndicate weapons look like they need a buff too. Anyone see Dual Cestras?

 

I don't think there's anything with a Tiering system, in fact I would be all for it, but it actually needs to exist first. As it is there's like, what, 7-10 weapons that even have an MR lock in the first place, and of those weapons the required rank is rarely respective of their actual power. Consistency is not DE's strong point, and it really irks me (and many others I'm sure) that the time, resources, etc. invested into many features of the game is rarely ever consistent with the end product.

 

I think DE likes the current system as it is now, because it promotes a constant imbalance, changing to the new best weapon, and therefore, increasing the likelihood of profits. The downside is, it's pushes players away. I really wish someone on there staff literally just played the game as a normal f2p character, to see the perspective. Clan weapons for example? Ignis and Synapse? Don't match up to the cost to build. As far as I know, they're trash. DE wows new players with shiny new baubles, while the old weapons decay. I'd like to see a more structured finite system for weapons, if not tiers, then definitely cost/return of building.

Edited April 18, 2015 by BloodForTheBloodGods

[Rakosta_Kai]

That's not a good thing. They've been slowly getting better about curbing power creep on weapons, now they need to start thinking about meaningful attempts at game balance.

 

Just saying "eh, we shouldn't even try" is pointless.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.

The game isn't competitive so balance in the face of constant power creep is the actual non-issue.

 

If DE had a track record of reasonable adjustments to outliers, the discussion would be different.

 

As it stands, chances are excellent that a high outlier is reduced to a low performer in a single balance pass.

 

 

 

I'm sure they are. Everyone has different opinions about everything.

 

I'm not...

Most of the arguments to nerf the Synoid were petty and had less to do with fact than they did with a notion of inconvenience.

 

Most... Not all.

 

As such, most of the opinions about the Synoid's current state stands to likewise be petty and have less to do with fact than convenience.

 

You really won't get much less honest than that, imo.

 

So we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

[Rakosta_Kai]

"Similar weapons are equally attractive choices" Sounds like a tier to me. I understand, with the Synoid Gammacor, I saw people using it, and immediately thought I need to have it. It did need a nerf, but not the type as it received. As a syndicate weapon, which seem designed to be secondaries used as primaries (effect only charges when out). It's ammo efficiency does not support using this way anymore. Some of the other syndicate weapons look like they need a buff too. Anyone see Dual Cestras?

 

 

I think DE likes the current system as it is now, because it promotes a constant imbalance, changing to the new best weapon, and therefore, increasing the likelihood of profits. The downside is, it's pushes players away. I really wish someone on there staff literally just played the game as a normal f2p character, to see the perspective. Clan weapons for example? Ignis and Synapse? Don't match up to the cost to build. As far as I know, they're trash. DE wows new players with shiny new baubles, while the old weapons decay. I'd like to see a more structured finite system for weapons, if not tiers, then definitely cost/return of building.

 

Tiers would be ideal.

They allow for transparency on so many different levels that outliers could be spotted immediately.

 

It's one of the things I have steadily advocated for a long time now.

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

Tiers would be ideal.

They allow for transparency on so many different levels that outliers could be spotted immediately.

 

It's one of the things I have steadily advocated for a long time now.

 

This sounds like a great idea to me.

 

If you make a thread laying out reasonable weapon tiers you got my vote. (Bare in mind pay to win will always be in the air but especially if the spread is to large.)

 

I will up it!

 

Preach Padre Preach!!

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure you'll tell me anyhow. Constructive feedback would be appreciated.

 

You are a tainted heretic! Under the light of the emperor your words have no meaning. Bam! is the only feedback you deserve.

 

Your pact with the god of murder will not save you from your fate.

Edited April 18, 2015 by ItWasntMeIPromise

[vaugahn]

Most of the arguments to nerf the Synoid were petty and had less to do with fact than they did with a notion of inconvenience.

 

This is a self serving argument that exists simply to write off those who disagree with you, regardless of whether their argument is based in fact or not. As evidenced by how quickly you jumped all over me earlier with arguments that were also not based in fact.

 

"Similar weapons are equally attractive choices" Sounds like a tier to me. I understand, with the Synoid Gammacor, I saw people using it, and immediately thought I need to have it. It did need a nerf, but not the type as it received. As a syndicate weapon, which seem designed to be secondaries used as primaries (effect only charges when out). It's ammo efficiency does not support using this way anymore. Some of the other syndicate weapons look like they need a buff too. Anyone see Dual Cestras?

 

One of my clanmates actually uses the Secura Cestras. Yeah, they're in dire need of a buff.

 

But on the "similar choices" thing, Syndicate weapons are as good as an example as it gets. They all take basically the exact same level of effort to get, and the Syndicates are supposed to all be equal in terms of rewards. Having one of those stand above the others, or one left below, is an obvious balance flaw.

[DSpite]

took a level 7 Marelok into level 30 stage with a max frame and it has trouble killing them without mods. but on level 1-6 surivial it PWN all enemys.

 

You do realize that nothing in that statement makes any sense, right?

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Vaykor_Marelok/t_30_23232300_193-2-5-195-3-5-200-6-5-202-5-5-204-0-10-205-7-3-206-4-5-209-1-5_204-7-209-6-193-6-195-6-206-6-202-6-200-9-205-9/en/3-0-53/37513/0

 

THOSE numbers are the only ones that count, ie, what the weapon can do when modded.

Edited April 19, 2015 by DSpite

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Am I the only one who thought the OP was being sarcastic?

Anyway, if the weapon abilities moved back to where it was a year ago Marelok would be nerfed, but I don't think it will ever be where it was then. In the Warframe we play today (for better or for worse), it doesn't need one compared to other weapons like it.

Edited April 19, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Rorgal_Sina]

I don't see any point in this thread... Why are we arguing about this again?

 

From what I know (I don't know if OP is being sarcastic.), the OP is assuming that we want to nerf the Marelok, although I saw no other recent threads about it. Then this?

 

Derailing thread right now: BUFF GRINLOK.

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

Derailing thread right now: BUFF GRINLOK.

 

Good point. I second it!

[LascarCapable]

Derailed. Closing.