MechNexus Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Pure genius. Your fault for responding to "hey guys we should nerf this so power creep doesn't become a thing" with hostility. You reap what you sow. Besides, can always nerf them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Acting like balance in pve isn't necessary. .. mhm okay.. So... boltor prime isn't op (dmg output,/comfortable handling)? I mean... I use it..., I have tried every weapon in the game... so what do I know. Sorry, I can't really come up with more... But the statement , more or less "craving balance in pve is nonsense, and if you wanna nerf something you're either stupid or jelly"... seems like a huge, steaming pile of... nonsense to me. And yes.. that's basically what op says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thehoocodfather Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) This is precisely it. More powerful weapons means we also need more powerful enemies to keep things from becoming completely trivial. Nerfing things means we don't have to do that. So you think that the Manics, Stalker buff, Riot Moa, Tar Moas etc are all due to the synoid being OP. Here we see the classic case of mistaking causation with correlation. Just because I wear a raincoat, that didnt mean I made it rain. We wanted power creep, we wanted tougher enemies. What we did not want was our weapons nerfed AND our enemies made more powerful. Thats what we got, due to people like you not thinking before you demanded nerfs. Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)thehoocodfather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 We wanted power creep, we wanted tougher enemies. Sure, we wanted tougher enemies, but no one actually asks for powercreep. No one. It's awful and slowly ruins games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thehoocodfather Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Acting like balance in pve isn't necessary. .. mhm okay.. So... boltor prime isn't op (dmg output,/comfortable handling)? I mean... I use it..., I have tried every weapon in the game... so what do I know. Sorry, I can't really come up with more... But the statement , more or less "craving balance in pve is nonsense, and if you wanna nerf something you're either stupid or jelly"... seems like a huge, steaming pile of... nonsense to me. And yes.. that's basically what op says. Yes, and we have all seen where your logic has led us. Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox174 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I put a bunch of forma and a catalyst into my Synoid, then stopped using it because it was so boring. You can complain that people who wanted a nerf are "no skill" "stupid" etc, but honestly they were right. PvE doesn't mean balance can be thrown out a window, I want to be able to take a weapon I enjoy into a mission and compete. Perfect balance won't ever be a thing, but it's a good goal to work towards as it at least ensures the game doesn't reach that level of overpowered ever again.Besides, why do people think the Synoid is weak now? It's ammo consumption got upgraded but it still deals the same amount of damage every second, just requires more ammo to do so (that's why the number appears lower, that's damage per round of ammo.)And not to hate on the OP but he seems to be disregarding all arguments made against him and doesn't seem to be adding anything constructive that makes sense. I feel like this is sort of just to instigate hate against a group of the player base that cares for game balance. Edited April 20, 2015 by Nox174 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thehoocodfather Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Sure, we wanted tougher enemies, but no one actually asks for powercreep. No one. It's awful and slowly ruins games. Power creep is what we have got. Its not what we wanted. We wanted tougher enemies to fight with the good guns we ranked up. Not tougher enemies to be fought with our good guns that have been nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERElektro Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Yes, and we have all seen where your logic has led us. Thanks for that. "My Logic"? ´o_o´ wha... Okay... op is obviously trolling. I advise everyone to just leave this thread be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I put a bunch of forma and a catalyst into my Synoid, then stopped using it because it was so boring. You can complain that people who wanted a nerf are "no skill" "stupid" etc, but honestly they were right. PvE doesn't mean balance can be thrown out a window, I want to be able to take a weapon I enjoy into a mission and compete. Perfect balance won't ever be a thing, but it's a good goal to work towards as it at least ensures the game doesn't reach that level of overpowered ever again. Besides, why do people think the Synoid is weak now? It's ammo consumption got upgraded but it still deals the same amount of damage every second, just requires more ammo to do so (that's why the number appears lower, that's damage per round of ammo.) See? Someone gets it. We wanted tougher enemies to fight with the good guns we ranked up. Not tougher enemies to be fought with our good guns that have been nerfed. We got tougher enemies because we had powerful weapons. One thing gets bumped up in strength, so you have to bump up another in strength compensate and keep it in check. It's classic powercreep. You're continually missing this and I'm not sure how, at this point. Powercreep is less of a thing when balance actually happens. You can't just let things run rampant and continually replace them with stronger and stronger items to give a sense of progression -- that's precisely how powercreep happens and how it continues. Edited April 20, 2015 by Vargras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateSpinDash Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Buffs and Nerfs are important for balance. And yes, you need that, even in a PvE game. You can't have one weapon fall out of line by trivializing all the content the game is supposed the be balanced for (so no, 2 hour Survs are not an argument). Unfortunately, comparing to my time in Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer, this community is really spoiled when it comes to power. Weapons that have any weakness are basically worthless. Listen, anyone with enough brains to conserve his ammo, use an ammo mutation or even ammo pizzas, or any combination of those, can still use the Synoid. In ME3, one of the most powerful assault rifles, the Cerberus Harrier, (High Damage, low Recoil, Good Accuracy, Weight was also pretty good given it's power. Casters would want to use something lighter though) had very little spare ammo, meaning that you had to visit ammo boxes pretty often. On the highest difficulty, ammo boxes would give less ammo, making that flaw even more apparent. Didn't keep many from using it though, and in conjunction with some characters it could do insane amounts of damage. You know what? There were people who still thought it was OP. I think given the weapons rarity and drawbacks, it was OK. Another example from ME3, the Reegar Carbine. A shotgun that dealt high damage to barriers and shields, decreased damage to armor. Still pretty high damage, but short range, so you had to get in really close, and there were enemies that could do an instant-kill attack if you got to close, so that was dangerous (unless you played against geth, which isn't possible on the highest difficulty because it mixes all factions). Vanguard characters, and some others, could do insane damage with that weapon though, as all Vanguards except one had the Biotic charge, which, in essence, allows you to get close enough (although depending on the enemy they still risk being instant-killed). People were still asking for nerfs. I don't understand everything Scott and his colleages do. Like the Braton Prime Buff, which helped, but also decreased it max ammo. I still don't get the reasoning behind that one. But the fact is, if you bring up balance in here, people complain because you supposedly want to ruin their fun. And while DE has been known to overdo it, and should definitely listen to us, I hope they know when to ignore the community on this. Because the community, or rather the vocal part of it, isn't always right. Edited April 20, 2015 by UltimateSpinDash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thehoocodfather Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I put a bunch of forma and a catalyst into my Synoid, then stopped using it because it was so boring. You can complain that people who wanted a nerf are "no skill" "stupid" etc, but honestly they were right. PvE doesn't mean balance can be thrown out a window, I want to be able to take a weapon I enjoy into a mission and compete. Perfect balance won't ever be a thing, but it's a good goal to work towards as it at least ensures the game doesn't reach that level of overpowered ever again. Besides, why do people think the Synoid is weak now? It's ammo consumption got upgraded but it still deals the same amount of damage every second, just requires more ammo to do so (that's why the number appears lower, that's damage per round of ammo.) Lets just say the synoid got nerfed. If it takes more ammo to do the same damage = a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 So you think that the Manics, Stalker buff, Riot Moa, Tar Moas etc are all due to the synoid being OP. Here we see the classic case of mistaking causation with correlation. Just because I wear a raincoat, that didnt mean I made it rain. We wanted power creep, we wanted tougher enemies. What we did not want was our weapons nerfed AND our enemies made more powerful. Thats what we got, due to people like you not thinking before you demanded nerfs. I'll admit it, you're good at baiting. Anyway, what came first: Soma or Leaders/Eximi? Boltor Prime or the first Infested redesign? Amprex or the second Infested redesign? Synoid buff or Corrupted Nullifiers and Bombards? As the weapons have gotten stronger, the enemies have. Not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thehoocodfather Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 "My Logic"? ´o_o´ wha... Okay... op is obviously trolling. I advise everyone to just leave this thread be. Yes, you do seem to like telling people what they should be doing dont you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Lets just say the synoid got nerfed. If it takes more ammo to do the same damage = a nerf. Oh no, the weapon with twice the DPS of the strongest weapons from a year ago got nerfed? How could they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechNexus Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 But the fact is, if you bring up balance in here, people complain because you supposedly want to ruin their fun. And while DE has been known to overdo it, and should definitely listen to us, I hope they know when to ignore the community on this. Because the community, or rather the vocal part of it, isn't always right. This. The community needs to man up when it comes to balance. (And reegar carbine - fun to use, but goddamn it's risky. Balance at work right there - Risk V Reward.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox174 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Lets just say the synoid got nerfed. If it takes more ammo to do the same damage = a nerf. Well duh, it got nerf'd. It deserved it. I'm just glad that they nerfed it reasonably instead of going overboard. Nerfing is a tricky process, you can do it right where everyone will understand it, or badly where it doesn't work and makes the weapon useless. I think they nailed it perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephalonShy Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This game needs a lot more nerfs, actually. I really want to see that void removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thehoocodfather Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I'll admit it, you're good at baiting. Anyway, what came first: Soma or Leaders/Eximi? Boltor Prime or the first Infested redesign? Amprex or the second Infested redesign? Synoid buff or Corrupted Nullifiers and Bombards? As the weapons have gotten stronger, the enemies have. Not the other way around. The Tar Mutualist Moas and Synoid both came in Update 15.5 The synoid was a weapon designed with those enemies in mind. It was never OP, it was a weapon introduced at the exact same time as a new tier of stronger enemies were introduced. The stronger enemies were not introduced after the synoid, as you insinuated. Yet the gun has been nerfed, the enemies havent. See anything wrong with that ? Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)thehoocodfather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox174 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This game needs a lot more nerfs, actually. I really want to see that void removal. I'd like to see a mass re-scaling of all weapons and enemies to be a more mediumized approach. Try to make build diversity more apparent instead of just slapping on one damage type for every faction. Make different enemies in each faction require different damage types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The Tar Mutualist Moas and Synoid both came in Update 15.5 The synoid was a weapon designed with those enemies in mind. It was never OP, it was a weapon introduced at the exact same time as a new tier of stronger enemies were introduced. The stronger enemies were not introduced after the synoid, as you insinuated. Yet the gun has been nerfed, the enemies havent. See anything wrong with that ? No. The synoid The first thing I see wrong is your ability to read "Amprex or the second Infested redesign" (both redesigns actually IIRC, but the second redesign was in the works after the Amprex was added). The second thing I see wrong is your ability to read "Synoid buff or Corrupted Nullifiers and Bombards." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) It was never OP Are we playing the same Warframe? That gun went from weak to ridiculous overnight. And saying it was designed to fight infested is just silly. Edited April 20, 2015 by vaugahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox174 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The Tar Mutualist Moas and Synoid both came in Update 15.5 The synoid was a weapon designed with those enemies in mind. It was never OP, it was a weapon introduced at the exact same time as a new tier of stronger enemies were introduced. The stronger enemies were not introduced after the synoid, as you insinuated. Yet the gun has been nerfed, the enemies havent. See anything wrong with that ? No, do you? These enemies are easy, can you honestly tell me you cannot handle these enemies -At All- without your Godly Laser Pointer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephalonShy Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'd like to see a mass re-scaling of all weapons and enemies to be a more mediumized approach. Try to make build diversity more apparent instead of just slapping on one damage type for every faction. Make different enemies in each faction require different damage types. Warframe would be real cool if we got rid of enemy levels and implemented payday 2 style of difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The Tar Mutualist Moas and Synoid both came in Update 15.5 The synoid was a weapon designed with those enemies in mind. It was never OP, it was a weapon introduced at the exact same time as a new tier of stronger enemies were introduced. The stronger enemies were not introduced after the synoid, as you insinuated. Yet the gun has been nerfed, the enemies havent. See anything wrong with that ? I feel like you're conveniently forgetting that the Gammacor and Synoid Gammacor, on release, were complete garbage. Absolutely, totally useless. It took a subsequent buff (overbuff, in the Synoid's case) to bring them up to viability. You know, balance? The thing you apparently hate? They were overbuffed and brought back in line to where they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thehoocodfather Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 The first thing I see wrong is your ability to read "Amprex or the second Infested redesign" (both redesigns actually IIRC, but the second redesign was in the works after the Amprex was added). The second thing I see wrong is your ability to read "Synoid buff or Corrupted Nullifiers and Bombards." So the synoid was the reason why the infested was redesigned. The amazing time travelling synoid. Giotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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