The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[Sae-River]

Also rhino prime's codex and excalibur's lore and a few other tidbits

 

I've been saying this for like 10 years and nobody understands omg

Yeah its quite clear that the Tenno are flesh in my oppinion, in space suits. altho they can harvest and use energy obviously. (p.s. I'm a roller)

[VoidNomade]

Denying the undeniable !!!

This is not helping your progress of recovery TENNOOOOOOOO

[(PSN)eximago]

As far as the energy theory goes, it's clearly been debunked time and time again. Personally, I think the Tenno are Void-tainted humans, and their ability to fit a variety of suits, both male and female, has a lot to do with what exactly the Void did to them and the Warframes themselves. In my mind, each Warframe was originally a single individual with a unique suit (Prime frames, essentially) and every successive Tenno to wear the suit in one way or another is able to essentially channel that original hero, which includes being able to take on physical attributes. Shapeshifting, but not really that simple.

Also, since we seem to be talking about the reasons the Tenno betrayed the Orokin, I'll chime in there as well. I'm not sure where I originally read this, but the Tenno are sworn to maintain balance in the System, which completely explains their ability to side with Grineer or Corpus, even competing with each other, without consequence (at least from the Tenno at large and The Lotus). Where ever I initially found this tidbit, it's corroborated by at least one of the Tennobet signs in Relays. My bet is that after they defeated the Sentients-- the only opposing force against the Orokin as far as we can tell-- they felt that it was their duty to collapse their empire to maintain balance.

[VoidWraith]

Why not because we're talking about machines bleeding. Cooling fluid, synthetic oil, etc. Whatever that stuff is, it's not blood.

Well... maybe the Tenno aren't actually losing blood, but some synthetic fluid to help maintain our frames? So in a way, it is like blood, but not blood? Even the robotic enemies can die from slash procs in Warframe.

[(PSN)eximago]

Well... maybe the Tenno aren't actually losing blood, but some synthetic fluid to help maintain our frames? So in a way, it is like blood, but not blood? Even the robotic enemies can die from slash procs in Warframe.

But they still don't actually bleed.

[roaddogz]

As far as the energy theory goes, it's clearly been debunked time and time again.

How exactly?

[(PSN)eximago]

How exactly?

Oh, I don't know, just about every lore tidbit we've received has alluded more and more to them, at minimum, being physical beings. Go review. Pretty sure the rest of this thread even goes into further detail about it.

[insert crappy Frozen meme referencing "Let It Go" here]

[Bigbizz44]

Oh, I don't know, just about every lore tidbit we've received has alluded more and more to them, at minimum, being physical beings. Go review. Pretty sure the rest of this thread even goes into further detail about it.

[insert crappy Frozen meme referencing "Let It Go" here]

It is important to note that when most bosses talk about the WF those characters have not conducted considerable research on what a Tenno is.  So it is safe to assume that those bosses assume that a Tenno is just some kind of super soldier.

 

The energy theory really hangs onto Captain Vor, who happens to be one of the few characters in the WARFRAME universe to do extensive research into what the Tenno are, even to the point of disobeying direct orders from the Twin Queens.  Vor is really one of the few characters to suggest a direct connection between the Tenno and the void.  He almost succeeded in controlling a WF before Alad V (who focused on infested research, which just so happened to give him insight on how to control the WF, which uses infested material to function).

 

As stated before, every theory on what a Tenno is can be debunked by "void magic", as that is a place where logic and reason failed.  Without the Zariman children the Orokin could never hope to utilize it as anything, and that's saying A LOT. The fact is there are hints pointing to both sides, and there isn't nearly enough evidence to completely disprove either side.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

How exactly?

Are you really asking that?

[roaddogz]

It is important to note that when most bosses talk about the WF those characters have not conducted considerable research on what a Tenno is.  So it is safe to assume that those bosses assume that a Tenno is just some kind of super soldier.

 

The energy theory really hangs onto Captain Vor, who happens to be one of the few characters in the WARFRAME universe to do extensive research into what the Tenno are, even to the point of disobeying direct orders from the Twin Queens.  Vor is really one of the few characters to suggest a direct connection between the Tenno and the void.  He almost succeeded in controlling a WF before Alad V (who focused on infested research, which just so happened to give him insight on how to control the WF, which uses infested material to function).

 

As stated before, every theory on what a Tenno is can be debunked by "void magic", as that is a place where logic and reason failed.  Without the Zariman children the Orokin could never hope to utilize it as anything, and that's saying A LOT. The fact is there are hints pointing to both sides, and there isn't nearly enough evidence to completely disprove either side.

[KracsNZ]

It is important to note that when most bosses talk about the WF those characters have not conducted considerable research on what a Tenno is.  So it is safe to assume that those bosses assume that a Tenno is just some kind of super soldier.

 

The energy theory really hangs onto Captain Vor, who happens to be one of the few characters in the WARFRAME universe to do extensive research into what the Tenno are, even to the point of disobeying direct orders from the Twin Queens.  Vor is really one of the few characters to suggest a direct connection between the Tenno and the void.  He almost succeeded in controlling a WF before Alad V (who focused on infested research, which just so happened to give him insight on how to control the WF, which uses infested material to function).

 

As stated before, every theory on what a Tenno is can be debunked by "void magic", as that is a place where logic and reason failed.  Without the Zariman children the Orokin could never hope to utilize it as anything, and that's saying A LOT. The fact is there are hints pointing to both sides, and there isn't nearly enough evidence to completely disprove either side.

 

The problem there as well is the energy theory can't hang itself on what Vor says. Vor's comments pre/post his resurrection don't reveal anything other than that the Tenno are the energy powering the frames, not that we are energy beings. Even with his resurrection at the hands of the Orokin key he has (Janus key) and his 'understanding' of the energies of the void, he still attacks the player as a physical being and relies on, I'm guessing, the void energy flowing through the Janus key to resurrect him each time he is defeated.

 

I'm guessing we'll see a changed Vor sometime in the future, and he may well have evolved into something completely different, but his current comments IMO don't lend weight in either direction of the physical vs. energy argument.

[Bigbizz44]

The problem there as well is the energy theory can't hang itself on what Vor says. Vor's comments pre/post his resurrection don't reveal anything other than that the Tenno are the energy powering the frames, not that we are energy beings. Even with his resurrection at the hands of the Orokin key he has (Janus key) and his 'understanding' of the energies of the void, he still attacks the player as a physical being and relies on, I'm guessing, the void energy flowing through the Janus key to resurrect him each time he is defeated.

 

I'm guessing we'll see a changed Vor sometime in the future, and he may well have evolved into something completely different, but his current comments IMO don't lend weight in either direction of the physical vs. energy argument.

Personally my hypothesis accounts for why Void Vor needs a body to attack the player, but first I must get something across.

 

"We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

 

This quote is a very debatable topic.  Many people claim it to be a metaphor, and many claim it not to be a metaphor, this is why my theory does not rely on it to support my own version of 'the Tenno are energy' theory.

 

First off, the reason why Void Vor needs a body is because energy by itself is practically useless (this is similar to computers, the electricity in it is useless by itself, but through the computer's programs it can run many different processes, and by extension the human brain).  It needs to act through a medium in order to work.  And Void Vor literally sais "I am energy".  So, considering he's talking about himself, he should be given the benefit of the doubt, as one should always know one's self before any other entity.  Even with war tactics, if you don't know yourself then you will lose every engagement, and the Grineer are all about fighting.  Another supporting fact is that Void Vor does not cease to interact with the player after you defeat him.  Every player knows how Void Vor loves his monologing.  HE NEVER STOPS TALKING!  If he was a full physical being then once his body was defeated he would not have the ability to continue his monolog.  So until undeniable proof is presented that Vor isn't fundamentally an energy being I will uphold that Void Vor is in fact an energy being.

 

So how does this tie into the Tenno being (at least in part) an energy being?   The Tenno developed from the children found on the Zariman.  These children were found in the void, and were infused by void energy.  Captain Vor was transported to the void using his key, where he was changed into a void infused being that manipulates void energy.  See the connection?  Science dictates that under similar circumstances you will produce a similar result.  My hypothesis is that Void Vor is what I would consider a proto-Tenno, as were the Zariman children.  However, after being discovered by the Orokin, the Zariman children were experimented on, resulting in something that looks completely different.

 

But why does a Tenno then need a physical body in order to do anything?  This is up to personal thought on the topic, but as stated earlier in this post, energy can't do anything productive by itself.  Just like a computer, electricity needs to flow through a series of components in order to do anything truly productive, including simulating this very game.  So I hypothesis that a Tenno needs a physical body simply because it's necessary for any kind of energy to do complex tasks.  Just because a being might be fundamentally made of energy doesn't mean that they don't require a physical body, or in my hypothesis a VERY specific body.

[KracsNZ]

Personally my hypothesis accounts for why Void Vor needs a body to attack the player, but first I must get something across.

 

"We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light."

 

This quote is a very debatable topic.  Many people claim it to be a metaphor, and many claim it not to be a metaphor, this is why my theory does not rely on it to support my own version of 'the Tenno are energy' theory.

 

First off, the reason why Void Vor needs a body is because energy by itself is practically useless (this is similar to computers, the electricity in it is useless by itself, but through the computer's programs it can run many different processes, and by extension the human brain).  It needs to act through a medium in order to work.  And Void Vor literally sais "I am energy".  So, considering he's talking about himself, he should be given the benefit of the doubt, as one should always know one's self before any other entity.  Even with war tactics, if you don't know yourself then you will lose every engagement, and the Grineer are all about fighting.  Another supporting fact is that Void Vor does not cease to interact with the player after you defeat him.  Every player knows how Void Vor loves his monologing.  HE NEVER STOPS TALKING!  If he was a full physical being then once his body was defeated he would not have the ability to continue his monolog.  So until undeniable proof is presented that Vor isn't fundamentally an energy being I will uphold that Void Vor is in fact an energy being.

 

So how does this tie into the Tenno being (at least in part) an energy being?   The Tenno developed from the children found on the Zariman.  These children were found in the void, and were infused by void energy.  Captain Vor was transported to the void using his key, where he was changed into a void infused being that manipulates void energy.  See the connection?  Science dictates that under similar circumstances you will produce a similar result.  My hypothesis is that Void Vor is what I would consider a proto-Tenno, as were the Zariman children.  However, after being discovered by the Orokin, the Zariman children were experimented on, resulting in something that looks completely different.

 

But why does a Tenno then need a physical body in order to do anything?  This is up to personal thought on the topic, but as stated earlier in this post, energy can't do anything productive by itself.  Just like a computer, electricity needs to flow through a series of components in order to do anything truly productive, including simulating this very game.  So I hypothesis that a Tenno needs a physical body simply because it's necessary for any kind of energy to do complex tasks.  Just because a being might be fundamentally made of energy doesn't mean that they don't require a physical body, or in my hypothesis a VERY specific body.

 

Guessing you're referring to this: "Behold, they cut me down but still, I speak. I am energy and I cannot be destroyed!"

 

That again is an issue. If energy can't do anything by itself, it can't coalesce by itself, it can't even think by itself. Energy in and of itself cannot be anything, i.e. an atom is an object, energy is not, an object can 'have' energy (without getting to indepth into matter vs energy physics discussion). Now I'm hoping DE side more on the sci fi side of things than fantasy, because a being of pure energy relying on 'space magic' is a little bit hairy fairy for me. 

 

I'm guessing most of Vor's continuing presence is tied very closely to the Janus key, or entity/entities within the void itself. "I was cut in half, destroyed, but through it's Janus Key, the Void called to me. It brought me here and here I was reborn." 

 

Vor's other comment hint at us not being like him at all:

• "Tenno use the keys, but they are mere trespassers. Only I, Vor, know the true power of the Void."
• "Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the Janus Key. Forever bound to the Void."
• "Let it be known, if the Tenno want true salvation, they will lay down their arms, and wait for the baptism of my Janus key."

 

I still think we're tied very closely to our physical forms (clones of the Zuriman survivors?), though our physical forms are very much intertwined with the power of the void, just not in my opinion nearly as far as Vor has gone.

[Bigbizz44]

-snip-

-If energy can't do anything by itself, it can't coalesce by itself, it can't even think by itself.

 

for this when I say that people are energy beings i'm not suggesting that they're raw energy.  I figured with all my rambling with 'void energy' that it would be apparent that i'm talking about Vor and Tenno being composed of void... stuff, but that's my fault for not specifying that.  Although, if you consider the universe to be composed of energy, and atoms are concentrated forms of energy, then energy in fact CAN act by itself since there's nothing but energy, but that is a whole different conversation.

 

 

-Now I'm hoping DE side more on the sci fi side of things than fantasy, because a being of pure energy relying on 'space magic' is a little bit hairy fairy for me.

 

Well considering how different WFs can do some of the most bizarre things because "void magic" is a bit hairy fairy to begin with.  However here I think your imagination on what can contain energy is a bit limited.  Maybe the foundation that can hold a being a pure energy isn't limited to physical objects, such as maybe magnetism can keep an energy being stable? IDK, but there is definitely more ways to transfer energy than through physical objects.

 

 

-Vor's other comment hint at us not being like him at all:

 

These quotes you have to be very careful on how you interpret them.  for the first quote, remember that the Tenno ARE trespassers, there to raid the void of all the treasure it has.  The Tenno also seem to have lost their memories, thus only Vor knows the true power of the Void. 

 

As far as being forever bound to the void, the Tenno are also bound to the void, energy beings or not.  The power of the void is still manipulated by the Tenno, thus the Tenno are also forever bound to the void. 

 

As far as "baptism by Janus key" I highly doubt that would make Vor different on a fundamental level, however it is important to note that the original proto-tenno (the Zariman children) were extensively experimented on.  Perhaps Void Vor sees this Orokin experimentation a blasphemy and wants to 'undue' those changes? IDK, but from looking at those quotes from my perspective they can easily be interpreted in any way imaginable.

 

 

-I still think we're tied very closely to our physical forms (clones of the Zuriman survivors?), though our physical forms are very much intertwined with the power of the void, just not in my opinion nearly as far as Vor has gone.

 

This is where my hypothesis kinda agrees: we need our (specific) physical forms in order to function.  Without our void selves piloting the WFs the WF is just another empty suit.  The problem then comes into how do you fit a person into a Nekros the same time they can fit into a Rhino?  Considering that the WF itself has a ton of functions that would be (in my opinion) extremely difficult to put into a something like a 2-inch thick suit (idk about the numbers, i'm just guessing).  And that's not accounting for the fact that the suit is biological (infested materials), so you need organs capable of sustaining the biological aspects as well, which leaves almost no room for a physical body Tenno. Energy can pretty much fit into any shape or form, so I am more inclined to believe the 'energy being with requirements to function' theory.

[KracsNZ]

We'll probably have to agree to disagree with most things :), but hey, that's part of the fun with discussions. Just thought I'd touch on one more aspect...

 

 

This is where my hypothesis kinda agrees: we need our (specific) physical forms in order to function.  Without our void selves piloting the WFs the WF is just another empty suit.  The problem then comes into how do you fit a person into a Nekros the same time they can fit into a Rhino?  Considering that the WF itself has a ton of functions that would be (in my opinion) extremely difficult to put into a something like a 2-inch thick suit (idk about the numbers, i'm just guessing).  And that's not accounting for the fact that the suit is biological (infested materials), so you need organs capable of sustaining the biological aspects as well, which leaves almost no room for a physical body Tenno. Energy can pretty much fit into any shape or form, so I am more inclined to believe the 'energy being with requirements to function' theory.

 

I'm not so sure on that. Looking a Alad's dissection of Excalibur the frame does actually look quite thin, however DE kept what is inside quite ambiguous as the inside is almost black with flecks of heat from the dissection appearing to char some of whatever is inside. I don't think the frames require organs and such either, even if they contain living material doesn't mean they require organs (without going onto further guesswork with the Rhino codex, and the components of the frame when crafting, i.e. I see the helmet, the chasis (or shell) and the systems (interfaces between the Tenno and the frame)).

[VoidWraith]

But they still don't actually bleed.

 

Well actually they did, but DE fixed that up. But doesn't mean they never did. Now they just die mysteriously from slash procs or toxic procs.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

But they still don't actually bleed.

Gameplay mechanics.

[Bigbizz44]

We'll probably have to agree to disagree with most things :), but hey, that's part of the fun with discussions. Just thought I'd touch on one more aspect...

I agree we definitely need more lore.  It's like we're trying to dig through a mountain with toothpicks lol.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I agree we definitely need more lore.  It's like we're trying to dig through a mountain with toothpicks lol.

This is supposed to be the year of lore... Or something like that.

[Crimson_Haze_]

Actually I believe the tenno are just a consciousness, and the warframes are avatars. That would explain why a rhino and a necros can be the same person, as well as switching from male to female frames.

[vaugahn]

Actually I believe the tenno are just a consciousness, and the warframes are avatars. That would explain why a rhino and a necros can be the same person, as well as switching from male to female frames.

 

There are many other possible explanations between those two extremes.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Actually I believe the tenno are just a consciousness, and the warframes are avatars. That would explain why a rhino and a necros can be the same person, as well as switching from male to female frames.

Ugh, I dislike that theory almost as much as the energy theory.

[DaedricToast666]

Lemme interject real quick. I really disliked how one of the biggest counter arguments to the energy theory was blood is blood.

[EmptyDevil]

Lemme interject real quick. I really disliked how one of the biggest counter arguments to the energy theory was blood is blood.

 

That is just the most simple explanation people can think of but there is a lot more against the energy theory than just blood and other basic bodily needs.

[Llyssa]

That is just the most simple explanation people can think of but there is a lot more against the energy theory than just blood and other basic bodily needs.

Yeah, like all the food and water Tenno consume. Oh... wait...