The Daikyu Is Mediocre, It Needs To Be Buffed?! ( Additional Buffing Feedback )

[Davoodoo]

For this bow to compete with dread it would need about 600 dmg and same charge speed, to compete with cernos it would need around 500 dmg and same charge speed.

 

Its just bad mkay.

 

Opticor is decent alternative because it actually fires faster than bows, but this doesnt.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

Daikyu just need to have faster fire rate then it ok, this is mid tier weapon so new player can get Paris Prime or Dread later.

As I've said before, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MID TIER, especially with the Boltor P. running around at M2 There's only good or mastery fodder. As Hatzeputt said, beginner players will spend Plat to buy the P. Prime instead of wasting time on the Daikyu.

The Daikyu also has the HIGHEST base damage among bows in the game. There's no way they made this bow with "mid tier" in mind.

Edited May 17, 2015 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[manub]

while I understand DE has tried to make a new style of bow weapon, I agree that daikyu doesn't perform well in this intended role

they should have made it EITHER massive damage (crit bow with slow charge time) OR status bow (high status with fast firerate)

 

right now, it can be somehow modded for damage, even if the lower crit chance and higher charge time make it inferior compared to other bows

 

it apparently can be modded for status, except the low firerate make it impossible to make it a practical status weapon.

this is a bow so it affects only one target (if it survives), additionnally, the status applied when weapons procs are random, so low firerate weapons are not as efficient for that

finally, there is a good chance that when it does proc, it procs puncture, which is in my opinion the less usefull of all the procs in this game (I m of the opinion that puncture & impact procs need a rework, they are overwhelmingly inferior to the slash proc)

 

which is really a shame, because I love this weapon & its model. I m a bow user since I 1st played this game (even through the beginnings of damage 2.0) & I was pumped up on the new bow, I was a little disappointed when I tried it

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

while I understand DE has tried to make a new style of bow weapon, I agree that daikyu doesn't perform well in this intended role

they should have made it EITHER massive damage (crit bow with slow charge time) OR status bow (high status with fast firerate)

right now, it can be somehow modded for damage, even if the lower crit chance and higher charge time make it inferior compared to other bows

it apparently can be modded for status, except the low firerate make it impossible to make it a practical status weapon.

this is a bow so it affects only one target (if it survives), additionnally, the status applied when weapons procs are random, so low firerate weapons are not as efficient for that

finally, there is a good chance that when it does proc, it procs puncture, which is in my opinion the less usefull of all the procs in this game (I m of the opinion that puncture & impact procs need a rework, they are overwhelmingly inferior to the slash proc)

which is really a shame, because I love this weapon & its model. I m a bow user since I 1st played this game (even through the beginnings of damage 2.0) & I was pumped up on the new bow, I was a little disappointed when I tried it

yeah, I didn't really get that either. A weapon with a high status chance, has a low RoF. With how status works right now, and the fact it's on a bow of all things, made me question this bows performance more than anything.

With that being said, it's pretty good idea, I'll add it to the additional feedback on the op.

Edited May 17, 2015 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[Ishteen]

Damage should be increased by 100%. Arrow should break earth when it hits the ground near enemies, causing a knockdown effect to all enemies within 8 yards. Then this weapon would be perfect. It just feels so massive and awesome, it needs the gameplay to match its majesty. Making it the heavy artillery of bows would justify its long charge time and limited hold time.

Even doubling the damage wouldn't make it overpowered, because as people have pointed out, crit damage from pretty much every other bow exceeds Daikyu's damage, and they are faster to fire to boot. So, double, triple the damage, make it hit like a truck even without crits, let us CC chargers and volatile runners by firing the lance of Gods into their midst, and the whole status chance/IPS thing? Well, the other stuff will compensate for that, or we could do something like this:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/459573-idea-for-physical-status-making-status-builds-and-physical-mods-way-more-viable/

Yastin and I have our different ideas on the topic :)

Basically this. The ground-shattering impact is a touch campy, but it would make sense given how massive the bow is (about as tall as Ash, I figure).

Personally I'd rather see the Daikyu remain as a deliberate, low-RoF sniper bow. Consolidate the impact damage values into puncture or slash, sure, but a numbers buff should be in the works either way. My only concern is that a raw base damage bow would arguably interfere with actual sniper rifles, which have been proposed to offer large damage values and a higher headshot bonus in lieu of critical-based performance.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Ishteen

[matrixEXO]

For me, the weapon lacks the oomph it needs to actually feel good after that long draw. The quick and dirty would be to add more damage but I see a different light for it.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/459290-daikyu-first-impressions/

 

Just reposting something I already posted before in my own thread linked above:

 

So, my proposed change is to convert the critical chance and damage into a unique 'timed release' mechanic and turn Daikyu into a skill-based weapon. After fully drawing, an invisible timer would count down. If the arrow is fired (held fire button is released) during this timer, the shot gains X% increased damage based off the critical damage value. This window of opportunity is small but can be increased with more crit chance. The timer is calculated at 0.1s + (0.01 x critical chance) for a base value of 0.25s. This can be increased further for a better window of opportunity and allows the weapon to actually do some serious work. Additionally, players who mastered the Daikyu could opt to not even mod for critical chance and thus gain an additional slot for damage. However, players who let go of the fire button before fully drawing the bow or after the window of opportunity deals the original damage value.

[Acos]

I think it really depends on whether or not this is going to be the only rendition of it. My gut feeling says no, and if they make a +1 version (Dragon, Primed, Prisma, Whatever) they'll need to have room for it to become better without it crossing over into grossly overpowered. Right now it's about on par with the vanilla Paris, which makes sense if they plan to release a +1 version later. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by Acos

[VampirePirate]

I finally got the chance to try this bow out.  In consideration of what DE is doing with this bow as a concept, I say it is fine as is.  That is despite expectations.  The only thing I wish to have modified on it is the draw mechanic.  As a long bow, it should have a longer or slower draw speed.  no problem there.  However, since it is a stronger bow (in the aspect of being a long bow, not in-game weapon), I think there should be more conditions placed on draw timing.  First we should be able to shoot arrows when we want to, meaning quick draw.  However, the quicker you shoot it, the less damage or effect it has.  Quick shot would probably be parallel to other bows, but if we wait for the full length of the draw, we should get the utmost effect or damage possible as compensation for having to wait so long to shoot.

 

Also I think the damage/effect should be divided into four stages from least effective to most effective.  For example:

 

1/4: draw duration = least effect and damage potential, probably near to that of quick draw for other bows

1/2: draw dur = more effect and damage

3/4: draw dur = most effect and damage

Full: draw duration = highest damage potential and guaranteed proc status for element damage

 

However, with this, you would have to manually hold the fire button and release it at one of these four stages.  There can be an indicator telling you at what stage the draw duration is at so you will know when you want to fire the bow.

 

This is just an idea that popped into my head while I used the bow, and also while I read comments about this weapon.  I don't expect anyone to think this is a good or bad idea.  It's just something I'm sharing.

Edited May 17, 2015 by VampirePirate

[Duch99pl]

Daikyu doesnt need a buff, its a status weapon like Marelok or Tysis

 

it just bothers me how many poeple think that status is a S#&$ stat

[BlueThingy]

Daikyu doesnt need a buff, its a status weapon like Marelok or Tysis

 

it just bothers me how many poeple think that status is a S#&$ stat

 

The Daikyu is a slow, single target, multi-type, status weapon

 

If you put one element onto the Daikyu then when your status procs the weapon must decide between Piercing, Impact, Slashing and the new element.

 

One in four, at best.

 

And the status effects only work well if they can spread and linger.  But the Daikyu can't do that. It is too slow.  It can't keep up with the actual status weapons.

 

We all know how powerful Status is, look at the Amprix.  But we also know WHY status is good.  And the Daikyu is an awful status weapon.

[Innosin]

A lot of us know it's "suppose" to be a status weapon,

 

but it's ability to proc status is S#&$.

 

It's a slow hitting, Powerful weapon that can reach 99% status affect by just two event mode which is great on paper,

 

except...................

 

It doesn't when you put it in real use.

 

 

Status affect  chance in this game, for some reason, lean a slightly bigger curve toward physical damage for some strange reason. This means in practical use, you are procing elemental effect at roughly only 30% of your shots at 210% elemental damage from experience,

 

With this bow being puncture focus.... the physical proc isn't even that good, so yeah... no, this bow isn't even viable as a proc weapon.

 

 

 

Daikyu doesnt need a buff, its a status weapon like Marelok or Tysis

 

it just bothers me how many poeple think that status is a S#&$ stat

Edited May 24, 2015 by Innosin

[Tigercloud]

For me, the weapon lacks the oomph it needs to actually feel good after that long draw. The quick and dirty would be to add more damage but I see a different light for it.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/459290-daikyu-first-impressions/

 

Just reposting something I already posted before in my own thread linked above:

 

So, my proposed change is to convert the critical chance and damage into a unique 'timed release' mechanic and turn Daikyu into a skill-based weapon. After fully drawing, an invisible timer would count down. If the arrow is fired (held fire button is released) during this timer, the shot gains X% increased damage based off the critical damage value. This window of opportunity is small but can be increased with more crit chance. The timer is calculated at 0.1s + (0.01 x critical chance) for a base value of 0.25s. This can be increased further for a better window of opportunity and allows the weapon to actually do some serious work. Additionally, players who mastered the Daikyu could opt to not even mod for critical chance and thus gain an additional slot for damage. However, players who let go of the fire button before fully drawing the bow or after the window of opportunity deals the original damage value.

 

You know, I really like this idea, but it doesn't solve Daikyu's problem, which is no matter how much damage it deals, its slower RoF than other bows makes it less practical as a status weapon. But, I want this. I want this a lot.

 

What the Daikyu needs to make it as viable as the other bows is a status-enhancing mechanic. Either an AoE status applicator (like if you hit the target, all targets within 3 yards have a chance to get procced), or a 100%+ status chance ability, where you could apply two status procs.

 

<sighs> But fun-wise, I still think an AoE knockdown, against enemies within 4 yards (I nerfed it from 8 yards, hehe) of the impact point, which only procs if you hit the *ground*, not an enemy target, would be so, soooo good. It would be incredibly fun, make you feel like a badass, and give a unique niche to Daikyu. Either you fire a high-damage bolt at a single target, or you shoot at the ground to incapacitate enemies and buy you and your teammates time to pick targets. The 100% status chance is a bonus.

 

So basically, DE, I'm asking you to add matrixEXO's change and mine to the Daikyu. Because it would be balancing *and* awesome.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

For me, the weapon lacks the oomph it needs to actually feel good after that long draw. The quick and dirty would be to add more damage but I see a different light for it.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/459290-daikyu-first-impressions/

 

Just reposting something I already posted before in my own thread linked above:

 

So, my proposed change is to convert the critical chance and damage into a unique 'timed release' mechanic and turn Daikyu into a skill-based weapon. After fully drawing, an invisible timer would count down. If the arrow is fired (held fire button is released) during this timer, the shot gains X% increased damage based off the critical damage value. This window of opportunity is small but can be increased with more crit chance. The timer is calculated at 0.1s + (0.01 x critical chance) for a base value of 0.25s. This can be increased further for a better window of opportunity and allows the weapon to actually do some serious work. Additionally, players who mastered the Daikyu could opt to not even mod for critical chance and thus gain an additional slot for damage. However, players who let go of the fire button before fully drawing the bow or after the window of opportunity deals the original damage value.

This is really good! My only question is, that during this timer, is the crit damage increased for x, the crit chance, or both. And also, is the optimal damage reached on full charge, or is it randomly generated on the amount of crit chance you have?

[Holeypaladin]

Daikyu is better than Paris and Cernos.

 

The one thing that would make it an amazing weapon would be to have Thunderbolt modified to be based off of status chance.

[Iraoh]

You people always fretting over stats and whether or not this weapon or that can 1 shot a heavy gunner late in a T4 defense and if it cant its trash blah blah blah.

 

The Daikyu is different, and is that a bad thing? what did you expect? a re-skinned Paris Prime? DE is simply taking a different approach to bows that the Crit God build path, I, Personally, think that this weapon is just fine, and sure it may fill a new role, but as a bow it's incredibly fun to play, and it looks amazing.

And at the end of the day, it's having fun playing the game that counts. And better yet, with a few forma, this can be quite the high-tier weapon.

So if DE deems in necessary to buff it a little, fine, that's alright by me, if not, fine. That's alright by me, I'll still be using this to pin baddies to walls.

[BlueThingy]

You people always fretting over stats and whether or not this weapon or that can 1 shot a heavy gunner late in a T4 defense and if it cant its trash blah blah blah.

 

The Daikyu is different, and is that a bad thing? what did you expect? a re-skinned Paris Prime? DE is simply taking a different approach to bows that the Crit God build path, I, Personally, think that this weapon is just fine, and sure it may fill a new role, but as a bow it's incredibly fun to play, and it looks amazing.

And at the end of the day, it's having fun playing the game that counts. And better yet, with a few forma, this can be quite the high-tier weapon.

So if DE deems in necessary to buff it a little, fine, that's alright by me, if not, fine. That's alright by me, I'll still be using this to pin baddies to walls.

 

 

We're not asking for it to be the best bow in the game, to be max teir.  Not even high teir.  But just that it does something.  It make itself worthwhile to use and level and potato and forma over and over.  It doesn't have to be the best of the best to do that but it has to serve a function.  Right now it's a slow single target status weapon with three physical damage types on it and low crit.  That's awful.

 

 

It's not a damage weapon, every other bow and most other weapons in general far out strip it

 

It's not a status weapon, even the worst status weapons in the game can beat it.  It can't apply it's status to enough targets fast enough or reliably enough to be worth while.

 

It's not the specalist sniper that it was implied to be.  It's not a damage powerhouse that it looks and feels like it might be.

 

It's... pretty?

 

But that's about it

[matrixEXO]

This is really good! My only question is, that during this timer, is the crit damage increased for x, the crit chance, or both. And also, is the optimal damage reached on full charge, or is it randomly generated on the amount of crit chance you have?

Clarification:

 

Timer is affected by critical chance. Calculation is 0.1s + (0.01 x Critical Chance) for a base timer of 0.25s.

Damage bonus is affected by critical damage. Calculation is (Critical Damage - 100)% for a base damage bonus of +100%.

 

Optimal damage is reached when you just entered full charge and the timer starts counting down but has not ended. The damage bonus is a consistent percentage increase during this time. Thus, a player who has gotten used to the base timer can opt to not mod for critical chance and still get the damage bonus benefit (difference between 0.25s and 0.475s with just one critical chance mod is massive with just one mod but good enough to allow people the option to get a more lenient timer for bonus damage but still keeping to the unique aspect of the weapon).

 

To think of it another way, it's a guaranteed yellow crit during that timer but since it's short enough to not allow first timers to simply get yellow crits all the time, it makes the weapon a skill-based weapon through training and practice on the release-fire timing.

Edited May 18, 2015 by matrixEXO

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

Clarification:

Timer is affected by critical chance. Calculation is 0.1s + (0.01 x Critical Chance) for a base timer of 0.25s.

Damage bonus is affected by critical damage. Calculation is (Critical Damage - 100)% for a base damage bonus of +100%.

Optimal damage is reached when you just entered full charge and the timer starts counting down but has not ended. The damage bonus is a consistent percentage increase during this time. Thus, a player who has gotten used to the base timer can opt to not mod for critical chance and still get the damage bonus benefit (difference between 0.25s and 0.475s with just one critical chance mod is massive with just one mod but good enough to allow people the option to get a more lenient timer for bonus damage but still keeping to the unique aspect of the weapon).

To think of it another way, it's a guaranteed yellow crit during that timer but since it's short enough to not allow first timers to simply get yellow crits all the time, it makes the weapon a skill-based weapon through training and practice on the release-fire timing.

So it's about, perfect timing, that's even better. The crit damage isn't based off of rng, but more so, if you release the bow at the right time. It's a learning curve based off of skill, rather than luck. Do i have your permission to put this on the OP. Edited May 18, 2015 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[InoxMaximus]

need an damage buff, like 500 dmg, with his low fire rate.

[matrixEXO]

So it's about, perfect timing, that's even better. The crit damage isn't based off of rng, but more so, if you release the bow at the right time. It's a learning curve based off of skill, rather than luck. Do i have your permission to put this on the OP.

Sure, please do. Also, you can sentence it in a way that makes it easier for people to understand.

Edited May 18, 2015 by matrixEXO

[Troll_Logic]

Leave the damage, polarities, status, crit, and everything else the same.

 

I suggest one thing "Don't force the player to full charge the bow."

[Tain_OSkoom]

I'm fine with the full charge. The only thing I'd change: make its base damage type toxin. I mean, the default arrowhead even looks like it was designed by the same guy who built the karyst toxin dagger.

 

 

Then it becomes the proc machine it seems to want to be.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

I'm fine with the full charge. The only thing I'd change: make its base damage type toxin. I mean, the default arrowhead even looks like it was designed by the same guy who built the karyst toxin dagger.

 

 

Then it becomes the proc machine it seems to want to be.

Why just stop at toxin though.? If they make it so that the damage is changed by color like how they've done with Chroma, then we'll be able to have all four base types.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

I've updated and tweaked the information of the Daikyu, to fit a more skilled based approach. Hopefully you will like it. Thank you matrixEXO for the rework idea.

Edited June 17, 2015 by (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx

[(PSN)Sytnik]

DK is good as a back decoration.

 

And that's about it... otherwise it has worse DPS and burst (or single shot damage) than Dread/ParisP, unrealiable status due to plethora of damage types.

 

If you want a bow get Dread/ParisP. IF you want something that does a lot of damage, get Opticor. If you want toxic clouds procs get Torid and if you want something that looks pretty while you murder stuff with Marelok, then get Daikyu.

 

The looks are indeed magnificent. Can I have a DK skin for Dread pls DE?

 

 

Also, I would argue that the mechanics and the visuals of the weapon compared to the stats make the thing profoundly unfun to use. Imagine charging a massive cannon, the booming sound as the weapon charges, lightning shooting from them muzzle and just as the weapon is about to fire... it goes *plonk* and spits out a pebble... 

I concur with the skin idea. For the type of game warframe is the Daikyu is sadly just garbage... all the stats aside in a game where your swarmed 100% of the time you got a weapon that takes to damn long to draw. Hell S#&amp;&#036; I can pull a real long bow faster then that... sadly holding the draw is another matter entirely :p For such an absurd draw time it needs a major damage buff or at least a faster draw and have the stats stay the same.

 

80% (Or even more...) of the weapons of this game are utter trashes, with awful mechanics, that suffer of many defaults and then aren't designed to be good.

 

Ask to DEVs why they don't play the game, why they release failure weapons that are just already broken.

 

 

 

This bow is in that category.  Mastery trash.

To damn freaking true. I like this game but the incompentance to balance is astouding... worst I've ever seen actually! So many weapons I've ranked and was amused by at best since they all extremely underperform.