Vauban. What?

[Onite]

I watched the video for this new frame and i was really confused as to what he is. I was expecting him to be an engineer type of warframe, or a "trapper" tactician, they even say in the desrcription that he is highly tactical. To me, i instantly started thinking he was going to be right up my alley, someone who can lay down traps or triggered explosives? Someone great at defense? As his skills were revealed i was even more confused and ultimately, disappointed. This may sound pessimistic but hear me out.

 

These are his stats and skills.

 

Shields: 75

Armor:   40

Energy: 75

Health:  100

 

Only 75 energy. But 40 armor. This already makes him very undesireable. As a character thats supposed to be oriented to tactics and trapping, he doesnt have enough energy to work with. Addressed in another thread, armor is prettymuch useless, this and having only 75 shields. These stats compared with every other warframe in the game makes him the weakest warframe in the game just going by these numbers alone. So we're already off to a rough start to look at.

 

As for his skills. You can look at the details for the skills here. (though i'm not sure how accurate this information is.)

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Vauban_%28Warframe%29

 

My main gripe with all of his skills is that they are not unique or more useful than any of the other warframes.

Its basically a frankenstien collaboration of what other warframes can do.

 

Tesla : Maybe the ONLY somewhat redeeming skill that vauban might have to offer. Its a grenade and yet it cannot attack large groups of enemies, only a few every so many seconds and may not even kill them. The only usefulness is it can buy you time in the form of area denial for 40 seconds according to the wiki. Not a good skill, but its "OK." I feel like its just something Volt should have had.

 

Bounce : This one is probably the worst skill out of all 4. A single use jump pad. Launches enemies. I really like the idea of having a utility skill but this one is completely useless in the context of warframe, because of the lack of control you have over the pad, and that you can already climb and run wherever you please in warframe. This is also something i feel is already done by Excalibur's jump skill. Also launching enemies seems extremely pointless, especially because even if they were shoved off the map, they still teleport back to the surface like players and items do. (you might argue that it could be useful to help your teammates, but as a note, i play rhino, the lease mobile warframe in the game, and he's still more than capable of maneuvering any terrain in the game, he just does it slightly slower.)

 

Bastille: Seems exactly like Rhino's stomp. Or every other warframe's stun move. It does a good job of lasting longer in terms of time left open to make enemies go into stun, but the cost is higher than what other warframes can at their skill costs.

 

Vortex: This one heavily reminded me of mag's crush skill. Which is ok for the cost. But it does less damage considering that mag has a base 1k damage plus armor calculation bonus damage. This seems alright except for two things. Vortex according to the wiki: "Will not work without all other Vauban specific mods installed."  Which means the cost to equip this skill with mod points is practically much higher than what other warframes can manage, points which could be going towards other more important mods. This gives you less customization and freedom to make this warframe to your playstyle. And then point #2: Vauban is a hard character to make due to his components being alert only. Mag is a starting character with the same if not better skill.

 

The only motivation people might have for Vaubon right now is that he's the hot new thing to hit warframe right now given theres not alot of content in the game. So the hype is very high, and he's just not living up to the expectations considering what we already have in the game. And now i'm still waiting for the warframe that can rig lethal traps or really dig into a location to defensively digest groups or waves of enemies.

[MetalGerbil]

i have never had more fun just messing around on a frame.

 

i have played everything to 30.

 

F the stats. he is a blast.

[Namacyst]

Don't pseudo-review something you have not played yourself, OP. Thanks.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Namacyst

[stacey69]

Did you play the frame? At rank 30 with all your ability mods?

 

Tesla: Should read Sentry.

Bounce: Has not been used enough for anyone to work out how or when to use it.

Bastille: should read Trap.

Vortex: Can be thrown anywhere. At your feet or at massive range. This is an excellent Ultimate.

 

I played a Pluto alert and he was excellent.

I played defense and he was excellent.

 

Give it time mate. Let people use the frame and talk about how and what they do. Its only been a few hours:)

[NotaCobra]

Armour

Useless

 

Oh OP, you made my afternoon.

[OrtuOcelot]

stacey69, on 17 May 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Did you play the frame? At rank 30 with all your ability mods?

Tesla: Should read Sentry.

Bounce: Has not been used enough for anyone to work out how or when to use it.

Bastille: should read Trap.

Vortex: Can be thrown anywhere. At your feet or at massive range. This is an excellent Ultimate.

I played a Pluto alert and he was excellent.

I played defense and he was excellent.

Give it time mate. Let people use the frame and talk about how and what they do. Its only been a few hours:)

You can use "Bounce" strategically, on Xini it's a pain to get it right, but throwing one at the stairs leading to the pod can cause it to stick to a step as if it were sticking to a wall, so it will push back some enemies, and the catwalk leading to the pod sometimes acts as a wall and it will stick the same way, either pushing them away or past the pod towards the open area/gap. Other than that, I use it to mess around with buddies, or to get around in some maps.

"Vortex" is still bugged for me, but "Bastille" + 10 "Tesla" 'nades are my little combo right now, and also placing a bunch of 'em near a decoy on defense : p

[Braken]

He doesn't have 75 energy, he has 150...

[Onite]

Armour

Useless

 

Oh OP, you made my afternoon.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39088-have-i-missed-something-or-is-armor-worthless/?hl=armor

[ASH_PRIME]

Don't pseudo-review something you have not played yourself, OP. Thanks.

haha!  what?  havnt You read these forums before?!

 40 pages of YOU HAVE KILLED RHINO posts by NON RHINO Users who havnt even logged in tonight cant be wrong!

and my personal fav, the 10+ change ASH's shuriken posts 'cause they are too much like the Glaive' posts by Non Ash Users..who dont even have a Glaive either

Also he has a whopping 150 ENERGY [with Flow mod thats gunna be SICK] so yeah...  great post OP...

 

[Onite]

haha!  what?  havnt You read these forums before?!

 40 pages of YOU HAVE KILLED RHINO posts by NON RHINO Users who havnt even logged in tonight cant be wrong!

and my personal fav, the 10+ change ASH's shuriken posts 'cause they are too much like the Glaive' posts by Non Ash Users..who dont even have a Glaive either

Also he has a whopping 150 ENERGY [with Flow mod thats gunna be SICK] so yeah...  great post OP...

 

The video lied to me, also energy gets capped even with ranked up flow. You can only have 200.

[NotaCobra]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/39088-have-i-missed-something-or-is-armor-worthless/?hl=armor

That thread is stating why steel fibre is useless, compared to vitality

 

Not why armour is useless.

 

Ash takes less than half the damage that, say, banshee takes.

 

Why?

armour.

 

 

Stop and read what you're quoting before acting smug.

[Zeddypanda]

The video lied to me, also energy gets capped even with ranked up flow. You can only have 200.

Stop making things up. Where are you even getting that from. I have over 450 energy on my Ember and over 300 energy on my Vauban.

[Onite]

Stop making things up. Where are you even getting that from. I have over 450 energy on my Ember and over 300 energy on my Vauban.

What? how? I have a rank 3 on my rhino and it stopped giving me extra energy. I cant get over 200. Is rhino bugged?

[Onite]

That thread is stating why steel fibre is useless, compared to vitality

 

Not why armour is useless.

 

Ash takes less than half the damage that, say, banshee takes.

 

Why?

armour.

 

 

Stop and read what you're quoting before acting smug.

I'm not acting smug, also saying steel fiber is different from armor is an oxymoron, because steel fiber = armor. The comparison in that thread is that you can just stack vitality and save mod points to have the same effective life as using steel fiber. I spent a good 5 minutes digging up that thread to quote for you because i actually care about this game and want DE to do a good job. I honestly feel like they could have done a better job on alot of stuff thats happened more recently, including Vauban. I dont understand why you would think this is "being smug." S#&$ flinging e-contests go nowhere and they're pointless.

[Tulzscha]

Which brings us to most important part - has the OP even played Vauban to know what he's talking about?

 

I played Xini defense earlier with a Vauban that was only rank 9, his skills were very helpful in getting us to wave 20.

[TunaMayo]

I have ranked him to 30, easily the most fun to play.

 

The only gripe I have is that he now makes all other frames feel a bit less fun. Why use a frame that can't spam sentry tesla? Or a frame that can't lift ALL enemies off the floor to revive someone? Or a frame that can't throw down the best ult in the game and then KEEP SHOOTING DURING IT.

 

To me Vauban feels like the next generation of frame, and if further ones follow suit then i will definitely be upgrading my founders as they are heading in the right direction.

[Zeddypanda]

What? how? I have a rank 3 on my rhino and it stopped giving me extra energy. I cant get over 200. Is rhino bugged?

I also have 260 energy on my Rhino. How much base energy do you have?

[Onite]

I also have 260 energy on my Rhino. How much base energy do you have?

150 base with 200 max,

[ValhaHazred]

To me Vauban feels like the next generation of frame, and if further ones follow suit then i will definitely be upgrading my founders as they are heading in the right direction.

Personally I hope they work on making the other frames backwards compatible to Vauban. Everyone needs more fun skills to use.

[TunaMayo]

Personally I hope they work on making the other frames backwards compatible to Vauban. Everyone needs more fun skills to use.

 

I apologise for the comparisons as I myself dislike them. But it feels like the earth characters in ME3 multi-player  they changed the game a bit from the usual characters which were beginning to feel stale. I would very much like to see more frames of this calibre. The fact is other frames do need a look at and this has been known for a while now.

[NotaCobra]

I'm not acting smug, also saying steel fiber is different from armor is an oxymoron, because steel fiber = armor. The comparison in that thread is that you can just stack vitality and save mod points to have the same effective life as using steel fiber. I spent a good 5 minutes digging up that thread to quote for you because i actually care about this game and want DE to do a good job. I honestly feel like they could have done a better job on alot of stuff thats happened more recently, including Vauban. I dont understand why you would think this is "being smug." S#&$ flinging e-contests go nowhere and they're pointless.

 

Steel fibre isn't armour, steel fibre is a % armour increase.

 

If you know the formula by which armour works, you'll know that armour is actually one of the most useful stats in this entire game.

(Armour)/ (Armour+100) = damage reduction.

So, for most frames, their 10 armour privides around 9% damage reduction, pretty weak right?

Well, saryn's 100 armour provides 50% damage reduction. Frost and rhino take even less.

 

However, armour has diminishing returns, whereas health doesn't.

That is to say, for example;

0 armour = 0% damage reduction

200 armour = 66% damage reduction

HOWEVER

500 armour = 83% damage reduction

700 armour = 87% damage reduction

 

This is why steel fibre is bad, it's a % armour increase.

 

If you have very little armour, the % increase provides relatively no additional armour and thus doesn't actually increase your defenses that much

If you have High armour, the diminishing returns mean that the extra armour you do get is less effective, due to the volume you now possess.

 

 

However, flat armour, and base armour, are some of the most useful stats in the game.

 

Seriously, go play frost, rhino or saryn for a while, then come back and tell me armour is uselss.

 

 

40 flat armour (Which is what our new warframe has) represents around 30% damage reduction

He takes 20% less damage than the 10 armour warframes (Nyx, ember, trinity, etc)

 

While that doesn't apply to shields,

That is almost a 40% effective life increase.

 

 

 

Once again, the thread you have linked is talking about the steel fibre mod, not armour as a whole.

 

Armour is a phenomenal stat and fundamental to the playstyle of several warframes.

Steel fibre, as a percent armour increase, is not a useful mod.

 

 

If you want to make a claim, stop and do the theorycrafting your self, it's vital if you're ever going to talk about balance and viability, which is the point of this thread.

Edited May 19, 2013 by NotaCobra

[TheJagji]

>Plays co-op game.

>Thinks stats are importent.

[Quetzhal]

Only 75 energy. But 40 armor. This already makes him very undesireable. As a character thats supposed to be oriented to tactics and trapping, he doesnt have enough energy to work with. Addressed in another thread, armor is prettymuch useless, this and having only 75 shields. These stats compared with every other warframe in the game makes him the weakest warframe in the game just going by these numbers alone. So we're already off to a rough start to look at.

As others have already said, he has more energy than that. My Vauban currently has 405 energy, and I believe someone said that with a maxed Flow he can sit on 460 energy. He's a caster Warframe.

 

Tesla : Maybe the ONLY somewhat redeeming skill that vauban might have to offer. Its a grenade and yet it cannot attack large groups of enemies, only a few every so many seconds and may not even kill them. The only usefulness is it can buy you time in the form of area denial for 40 seconds according to the wiki. Not a good skill, but its "OK." I feel like its just something Volt should have had.

Tesla is not a grenade in the true sense of the word. It is a sentry turret - it is a sticky sentry turret. That slaughters Corpus. And you can spam a lot of them down. I can solo Kiliken up to wave 15 using nothing but Tesla. It's a great skill.

 

Bounce : This one is probably the worst skill out of all 4. A single use jump pad. Launches enemies. I really like the idea of having a utility skill but this one is completely useless in the context of warframe, because of the lack of control you have over the pad, and that you can already climb and run wherever you please in warframe. This is also something i feel is already done by Excalibur's jump skill. Also launching enemies seems extremely pointless, especially because even if they were shoved off the map, they still teleport back to the surface like players and items do. (you might argue that it could be useful to help your teammates, but as a note, i play rhino, the lease mobile warframe in the game, and he's still more than capable of maneuvering any terrain in the game, he just does it slightly slower.)

Bounce does damage, can be placed on walls and ceilings, not to mention onto enemies and people. Also, it can be used three times (at max rank), not just one. It just needs a moment to recharge. It's an excellent skill that can be used to route enemies in defense, or just to throw enemies out of the way in normal missions. And it's hilarious.

 

Bastille: Seems exactly like Rhino's stomp. Or every other warframe's stun move. It does a good job of lasting longer in terms of time left open to make enemies go into stun, but the cost is higher than what other warframes can at their skill costs.

It's a ranged Stomp. That freezes enemies in place. It is incredibly useful with Infested. Which is good because Tesla is useless against Infested.

I can't speak for Vortex as I haven't used it, but honestly, OP? You need to give him a try before saying anything about his abilities. Tesla is quite possibly one of the most versatile skills available to Warframes right now. Bounce and Bastille are both great at stalling and damaging enemies. I'm pretty sure you'll have fun playing as him.

[WanderingDude]

One thing TRY TO STICK THE TESLA TO OTHER FRAMES AND RUN AROUND A CORPUS MAP WITHA TEAM MATE WITH 10 TESLA'S AND THAT'S A S#&$LOUD OF FUN