Trial Of Trials

[Raymexodus]

Trial and error.

Insufficient information for these kinds of things is so prevalent in Warframe it's hard to believe they intend otherwise. However, I've yet to encounter a point where it actually isn't their intention to not provide you with information. Whether it's a bad design or not, if the raid didn't give you enough information then most of the rest of the game didn't as well, and I don't think that will be changing soon.

 

The Law of Retribution was admittedly, a misstep on the way to glory. It highlighted the main points of end game play - CC. Which no one likes, because pressing the 4 button is enough. Though, this is DE's first raid. In time, maybe the Law of Retribution will be tweaked, and the future raids will have learned the do's and don'ts to satisfy a broader part of the community.

 

The Warframe checklists are very real, and it's quite distinguishable which Warframe is suited for end-game and beginners. Though, if DE found a way to balance a Warframe's health and shields versus the end game kind of enemy damage, I think it would make the "Warframe checklist" obsolete. Year of quality better step up its game.

[low1991]

HOW ABOUT THIS?! *cap to attract attention*

DE implement a 1-player (solo) tutorial for trial (raid) with no a reduced level enemies, and cost of almost nothing for keys (no reward at end)

Learning on hand is many time more efficient than learning from fourms/internet/third person view/ words

[RainDH]

Personally, I'm done with this topic. Have fun doing whatever you want to added, just keep in mind some people like the mystery of not having help in anyway.

 

I am one of this people, by the way. I like when game teaches you some basics and then you continue playing on your own, using these basics to solve more and more challenging situations or puzzles, learning new tricks, gaining experience in game content and so on. Problem is, WarFrame is not that kind of game. Huge amount of basic information that should be explained in-game lies only on forums or wiki. And it is hard to learn because you never know when you do something wrong and what exactly you are doing wrong -- and there's small possibility that in-game situation, where you made a mistake will repeat again so you can experiment with bulids by yourself.

If I join the raid now, I'll spent all my revives in half of a minute, before I even see where to go and what to do. Then I'd be told to go and read manuals of required builds and whole solution. So my role would be decreased from "I take my favorite frame and do everything I can to help my teammates" to "I read and do what is written or die in seconds". Solving a mystery is great, but for some players there's little opportunity to do so in raid. How you can solve something, when your head is full of surviving in chaos?

[FelisImpurrator]

Trial and error.

Insufficient information for these kinds of things is so prevalent in Warframe it's hard to believe they intend otherwise. However, I've yet to encounter a point where it actually isn't their intention to not provide you with information. Whether it's a bad design or not, if the raid didn't give you enough information then most of the rest of the game didn't as well, and I don't think that will be changing soon.

 

The Law of Retribution was admittedly, a misstep on the way to glory. It highlighted the main points of end game play - CC. Which no one likes, because pressing the 4 button is enough. Though, this is DE's first raid. In time, maybe the Law of Retribution will be tweaked, and the future raids will have learned the do's and don'ts to satisfy a broader part of the community.

 

The Warframe checklists are very real, and it's quite distinguishable which Warframe is suited for end-game and beginners. Though, if DE found a way to balance a Warframe's health and shields versus the end game kind of enemy damage, I think it would make the "Warframe checklist" obsolete. Year of quality better step up its game.

This. This so very much. It shows an underlying problem with the game's supply of information more than anything else.

 

As for balancing health/shields, it's probably one of those huge balance issues more than anything - either we have too much firepower, or they do, and so we end up with level 80 enemies when we aren't even supposed to have level 80 enemies.

[(PSN)JrJester00]

Warframe needs a little mystery to it. Raids were not designed to be easy and for un-experienced players.  Veterans are getting bored of the current content and grind as it is.  Players that the Raids are designed for already know to go to google/forums/reddit/Wiki/YouTube/ASK SOMEONE who's done it? (hell even the Devstream showed how to do it) doing a little research before actually attempting to do something new or unknown.  I have no sympathy to those who attempt to do the Raids and should not be because they aren't ready for it or don't know how to do it.  There are plenty of 

 

Yet again, DE's probably going to accommodate to the whiny, needy and complainers that content is to hard and/or too high DPS and nerf the Raids next.  IE: 5xR5's in Void (nerfed), Prime parts (rotations nerfed), Weapons (Synoid Gammacor just 1 of many NERFED), Void keys (getting nerfed),  

 

Thanks DE and community complain on!

[RainDH]

Veterans are getting bored of the current content and grind as it is.

Not only veterans are bored of grind, why only them getting something good?

(i'm waiting for the grind to reduce about year and a half, still nothing)

 

Players that the Raids are designed for already know to go to google/forums/reddit/Wiki/YouTube/ASK SOMEONE who's done it?

I can't speak for the others but I prefer to play the game by myself, not by youtube or forums.

 

Yet again, DE's probably going to accommodate to the whiny, needy and complainers that content is to hard and/or too high DPS and nerf the Raids next.

Well, it is bad, that from so many solutions the nerf is the only one, which devs are using... I don't want raids to be nerfed, I want them to change.

Edited June 8, 2015 by RainDH

[MagPrime]

Warframe needs a little mystery to it. Raids were not designed to be easy and for un-experienced players.  Veterans are getting bored of the current content and grind as it is.  Players that the Raids are designed for already know to go to google/forums/reddit/Wiki/YouTube/ASK SOMEONE who's done it? (hell even the Devstream showed how to do it) doing a little research before actually attempting to do something new or unknown.  I have no sympathy to those who attempt to do the Raids and should not be because they aren't ready for it or don't know how to do it.  There are plenty of 

 

Yet again, DE's probably going to accommodate to the whiny, needy and complainers that content is to hard and/or too high DPS and nerf the Raids next.  IE: 5xR5's in Void (nerfed), Prime parts (rotations nerfed), Weapons (Synoid Gammacor just 1 of many NERFED), Void keys (getting nerfed),  

 

Thanks DE and community complain on!

Wow, the salt is real.

 

The raid was poorly designed, it lacks needed information.  See one of my previous posts; I don't want to have my hand held nor have Lotus telling me exactly what to do, every step of the way. 

 

Please understand, not everyone enjoys mental puzzles.  I'm not asking to have a Nanny Lotus put in, just more explanation of what the goal is - without being required to go to outside sources. 

[(PSN)JrJester00]

Not only veterans are bored of grind, why only them getting something good?

(i'm waiting for the grind to reduce about year and a half, still nothing)

 

I can't speak for the others but I prefer to play the game by myself, not by youtube or forums.

 

Well, it is bad, that from so many solutions the nerf is the only one, which devs are using... I don't want raids to be nerfed, I want them to change.

 

My point exactly.  I have 90+days of time into this game since it came out on PS4 and have put plenty of $ into it for support of DE and because I like it.  I'm a MR19 and a veteran.  "The grind is real"  Always has been if anything has gotten better in some areas, but as I state again, "Raids were not designed for un-experienced players" ... If you consider to play the game by yourself and not use assistance from the multiple ways I provided other than 'even' YouTube than figure it out for yourself.  That's the point!  Have fun...if you're not having fun don't come complaining to have ti changed when there's MULTIPLE places you can learn how to do it.  If it get's put 'in-game' than you spoil it for people that don't use any of the available ways to learn how to do it for themselves.

 

Wow, the salt is real.

 

The raid was poorly designed, it lacks needed information.  See one of my previous posts; I don't want to have my hand held nor have Lotus telling me exactly what to do, every step of the way. 

 

Please understand, not everyone enjoys mental puzzles.  I'm not asking to have a Nanny Lotus put in, just more explanation of what the goal is - without being required to go to outside sources. 

 

My salt is with how everyone complains about stuff and it gets nerfed.  I'm just really irritated with DE changing a lot of the game from un-experienced players complaining.  The examples are all there.  DE needs to focus more on the game itself with bugs, content, focus, new content etc...  

 

I think the raid was designed great!  You complete it? Seems like majority of the community doesn't think it was poorly designed as they are able to complete it when DE has leader boards for the time completion of it.

 

I completely agree with you that not everyone enjoys mental puzzles, but it's another part of the game which did not exist.  Just like not everyone likes PVP.  You have a choice to play it or not.  Raids are there for you just like PVP is to play or not.  Just because you don't like Raids because of how it's designed to be difficult and 'puzzle base' don't come here and complain to change it WHEN material is there from the many ways provided on how to do it.

[MagPrime]

-snip-

 

My salt is with how everyone complains about stuff and it gets nerfed.  I'm just really irritated with DE changing a lot of the game from un-experienced players complaining.  The examples are all there.  DE needs to focus more on the game itself with bugs, content, focus, new content etc...  

 

I think the raid was designed great!  You complete it? Seems like majority of the community doesn't think it was poorly designed as they are able to complete it when DE has leader boards for the time completion of it.

 

I completely agree with you that not everyone enjoys mental puzzles, but it's another part of the game which did not exist.  Just like not everyone likes PVP.  You have a choice to play it or not.  Raids are there for you just like PVP is to play or not.  Just because you don't like Raids because of how it's designed to be difficult and 'puzzle base' don't come here and complain to change it WHEN material is there from the many ways provided on how to do it.

Yes, the material is available - outside of game. 

 

I too am a veteran, and yes, the grind is real.  And no, we didn't finish it because no one was able to suss out what we needed to do from the dialogue provided by Vey Hek.

 

Content like a raid shouldn't be exclusive to players that enjoy mental gymnastics - it should be available to everyone and when they fail it, it's due to not being properly equipped or experienced to make it, not because they didn't know what was going on from "Don't let them near the toxin injectors"

 

What exactly does that tell a player?  Get closer to the toxin injectors, clearly.  But at no point does anything pop up and say "Find and hack these 4 consoles while you're being shot to bits."  That's the issue.  It's lacking clear direction that we should have been looking for any consoles in the first place.

 

We shouldn't have to go to outside sources to learn how to play this game.  That's what this is about. 

 

Also, if you enjoy the "mystery" of the raid so much, why are you going to outside sources? 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Noamuth

[srlhama]

Same reason ppl still activate life support at 90% and keep asking what is orokin derelict/vault...

This kind of "figure out how to do" is good for something short like a tatical alert, remember the manic alert when you were on a ship full of that bastards, but for the raid no because it is long( randoms took more than 1hour) and you dead compromise the whole team.

Ps: why ppl use Valkyr on raids???

[MagPrime]

Same reason ppl still activate life support at 90% and keep asking what is orokin derelict/vault...

This kind of "figure out how to do" is good for something short like a tatical alert, remember the manic alert when you were on a ship full of that bastards, but for the raid no because it is long( randoms took more than 1hour) and you dead compromise the whole team.

Ps: why ppl use Valkyr on raids???

Because she is stronk like mountain. 

[RainDH]

 I'm a MR19 and a veteran.

Oh no, sorry, high MR does not make you a "veteran". =) Every newbie in no-time can easily achieve maximum available MR, because it only shows your inventory (yeah, self-promotion).

 

 

If you consider to play the game by yourself and not use assistance from the multiple ways I provided other than 'even' YouTube than figure it out for yourself.  That's the point!  Have fun...if you're not having fun don't come complaining to have ti changed when there's MULTIPLE places you can learn how to do it.  If it get's put 'in-game' than you spoil it for people that don't use any of the available ways to learn how to do it for themselves.

Are you even reading our messages?..

[(PSN)JrJester00]

Oh no, sorry, high MR does not make you a "veteran". =) Every newbie in no-time can easily achieve maximum available MR, because it only shows your inventory (yeah, self-promotion).

 

 

Maybe you should read what I wrote BEFORE I claimed to be a veteran from MR19. " I have 90+days of time into this game since it came out on PS4"

[Cisor]

These are my opinions on how I would like trials to be.

Coordination:

In general, trials on easy difficulty should be puggable, and the hardest difficulty require a dedicated raid clan and precision teamwork. Additional difficulty tiers can be added to fill the gap if necessary. Currently LoR on normal is a good difficulty for easy, but nightmare mode should harder.

Ideally each player should be engaged at all times and a trial on hard mode should fail if any member fails to execute their duty. Players should also have to make frequent tactical decisions, and making the wrong tactical decisions should result in significant set backs or even failure. Failing from RNG should be minimalized.

Puzzles:

Figuring out how to do a trial is part of a good trial experience. I thought original Law of Retribution (LoR) without the highlighted tubes in the final stage was a good starting puzzle difficulty for a trail. The addition of highlighted tubes was a bit of a disappointment because it made that puzzle less intriguing. I would like to see harder puzzles to figure out in future raids.

Roles:

Right now LoR doesn't have any role for damage. I'd like to see future trials incorporate damage dealer frames as a role especially since we have many frames that fill this role.

Keys:

Failure in any stage should not result in a key loss. This encourages people be less fearful of failing repeatedly on a hard mode trial where high failure is expected when learning how to do it, even for the top tier players.

Rewards:

Reward locks should reset at a fixed time every day/week. This allows players more flexibility of their play time without increasing the rate at which they can accumulate rewards.

[MagPrime]

These are my opinions on how I would like trials to be.

Coordination:

In general, trials on easy difficulty should be puggable, and the hardest difficulty require a dedicated raid clan and precision teamwork. Additional difficulty tiers can be added to fill the gap if necessary. Currently LoR on normal is a good difficulty for easy, but nightmare mode should harder.

Ideally each player should be engaged at all times and a trial on hard mode should fail if any member fails to execute their duty. Players should also have to make frequent tactical decisions, and making the wrong tactical decisions should result in significant set backs or even failure. Failing from RNG should be minimalized.

Puzzles:

Figuring out how to do a trial is part of a good trial experience. I thought original Law of Retribution (LoR) without the highlighted tubes in the final stage was a good starting puzzle difficulty for a trail. The addition of highlighted tubes was a bit of a disappointment because it made that puzzle less intriguing. I would like to see harder puzzles to figure out in future raids.

Roles:

Right now LoR doesn't have any role for damage. I'd like to see future trials incorporate damage dealer frames as a role especially since we have many frames that fill this role.

Keys:

Failure in any stage should not result in a key loss. This encourages people be less fearful of failing repeatedly on a hard mode trial where high failure is expected when learning how to do it, even for the top tier players.

Rewards:

Reward locks should reset at a fixed time every day/week. This allows players more flexibility of their play time without increasing the rate at which they can accumulate rewards.

I agree that we should have a tiered raid experience.  Having that would help more people enjoy the raid over a specific group being the only ones to enjoy.

 

Having "easy" being the tier where Lotus is on all the time saying "Get the battery, take it here, do this, do that" etc and hard being Vey Hek popping in Syndicate style to taunt you with pointless dialogue. 

[FelisImpurrator]

Also, if you enjoy the "mystery" of the raid so much, why are you going to outside sources? 

Nailed. It.

 

These are my opinions on how I would like trials to be.

Coordination:

In general, trials on easy difficulty should be puggable, and the hardest difficulty require a dedicated raid clan and precision teamwork. Additional difficulty tiers can be added to fill the gap if necessary. Currently LoR on normal is a good difficulty for easy, but nightmare mode should harder.

Ideally each player should be engaged at all times and a trial on hard mode should fail if any member fails to execute their duty. Players should also have to make frequent tactical decisions, and making the wrong tactical decisions should result in significant set backs or even failure. Failing from RNG should be minimalized.

*snip for length*

I like a lot of these ideas - tiered difficulties yes, more room for DPS instead of "stack CC to the sky and walk through the statue gallery", no key loss, and rewards resetting at a fixed time (like, say, on rollover.) As for the rest, well:

 

Just to clarify. It should be harder, but not cheaper. The current Nightmare difficulty is harder only because it's cheap - because it relies on fake difficulty by cranking up the "SURPRISE, YOU GOT ONESHOT" factor of the raid, as opposed to requiring truly new or more complex tactics. It's still the same CC and hack fest as the original... except with a perfect timing requirement thrown in. It's not so much "Dark Souls" hard as it is "I Wanna Be the Guy" hard; all it tests are your reflexes (which is a form of skill, yes, but not the only kind) without diversifying your tactics (Dark Souls did both, for reference, and that was why it worked so well).

 

And the regular raid being suitable as is... did you complete it without reading up on it? And did you do it with pugs or with trusted clan members? Veterans or newer players? If you think highlighting the tubes is already too easy, I am curious to know what context you first did LoR in.

[Cisor]

And the regular raid being suitable as is... did you complete it without reading up on it? And did you do it with pugs or with trusted clan members? Veterans or newer players? If you think highlighting the tubes is already too easy, I am curious to know what context you first did LoR in.

I figured out the tube/door mechanics while pugging before it was highlighted without any help and I did like trying to figure that one out. Didn't have a chance to finish it since a lot of players got disconnected and the rest decided to give up. The raid was updated before I got a chance to do it again and take it to completion.

[FelisImpurrator]

I figured out the tube/door mechanics while pugging before it was highlighted without any help and I did like trying to figure that one out. Didn't have a chance to finish it since a lot of players got disconnected and the rest decided to give up. The raid was updated before I got a chance to do it again and take it to completion.

Not just the tube/door bit.

 

Everything, start to finish. No reading for the entire thing? How much dying was involved, if that was the case?

[Cisor]

Not just the tube/door bit.

Everything, start to finish. No reading for the entire thing? How much dying was involved, if that was the case?

Yes, I figured all the mechanics out in pugs. A lot of dying in the process, but that's part of the fun!

[FelisImpurrator]

Yes, I figured all the mechanics out in pugs. A lot of dying in the process, but that's part of the fun!

Mm, not everyone finds Oneshot Central fun.

 

Like I said, there are better examples, like Dark Souls, where instead of countering cheesy player tactics with even cheesier enemy tactics, the game actually forces you to Git Gud in terms of actual skill and tactics - sometimes by dying through it, yes, but not always and not necessarily requiring that kind of brute force approach.

 

Which is exactly what it is - brute force, as used in the context of (appropriately for the raid design) decryption: Try every conceivable password combination until one finally works.

[Cisor]

I agree that tactics is more enjoyable than brute force.

[FelisImpurrator]

Hm. Thought about this some more, and tried to figure out what it was that felt off. And a large part of it, at least in my books, is the lack of any, so to speak, flow - in the sort-of narrative sense. No sense of progression. Using the first stage alone as an example, spoilered for length:

 

You load in. You're dropped off. Lotus says hi, we're here to beat Vay Hek to death. Then you go in, and suddenly Hek turns on the poison gas - oh crap, Lotus is getting cut off and Hek's laughing. So you poke around, find this weird explosive thing, and through a lot of dying horribly finally manage to blow up an injector... and then what? Nothing changes about the world state, except that there's one less injector. Same amount of toxin. Same complete absence of Lotus. Same mission structure: Get battery, charge battery, hack terminals, drop battery, get out. And even as you blow up more of the things... the leftover ones are magically pumping the same amount of gas, like this background noise you just tune out if you have a Rejuvenation going. And then the last injector goes down and suddenly, no gas, Lotus is back, done and gone.

 

Going through it like this makes it feel as though there's barely even a plot to the thing. If you try to graph it out, the line of progression is horizontal for an entire stage before it spikes up to the next stage and the next stage and the final battle.

 

What if the gas started out stronger than it does now, but grew weaker with every destroyed injector? And what if Lotus could get a few crucial words to you at the start - "destroy ... injectors", or "tritium ... volatile", or "injectors ... shielded", and got progressively easier to understand? What if each new injector presented a different set of challenges that steadily increased in complexity as you went along, but with just a bit more Lotus on every substage to compensate?

 

Apply this 'diversifying' logic to the rest of the raid, as opposed to finding one pattern and spamming until dead.  And with the Lotus, your guide, actually giving you the general idea of what to do, but leaving you to figure out how to do it.

 

Am I the only one who thinks that would be more fun?

[MagPrime]

Hm. Thought about this some more, and tried to figure out what it was that felt off. And a large part of it, at least in my books, is the lack of any, so to speak, flow - in the sort-of narrative sense. No sense of progression. Using the first stage alone as an example, spoilered for length:

 

You load in. You're dropped off. Lotus says hi, we're here to beat Vay Hek to death. Then you go in, and suddenly Hek turns on the poison gas - oh crap, Lotus is getting cut off and Hek's laughing. So you poke around, find this weird explosive thing, and through a lot of dying horribly finally manage to blow up an injector... and then what? Nothing changes about the world state, except that there's one less injector. Same amount of toxin. Same complete absence of Lotus. Same mission structure: Get battery, charge battery, hack terminals, drop battery, get out. And even as you blow up more of the things... the leftover ones are magically pumping the same amount of gas, like this background noise you just tune out if you have a Rejuvenation going. And then the last injector goes down and suddenly, no gas, Lotus is back, done and gone.

 

Going through it like this makes it feel as though there's barely even a plot to the thing. If you try to graph it out, the line of progression is horizontal for an entire stage before it spikes up to the next stage and the next stage and the final battle.

 

What if the gas started out stronger than it does now, but grew weaker with every destroyed injector? And what if Lotus could get a few crucial words to you at the start - "destroy ... injectors", or "tritium ... volatile", or "injectors ... shielded", and got progressively easier to understand? What if each new injector presented a different set of challenges that steadily increased in complexity as you went along, but with just a bit more Lotus on every substage to compensate?

 

Apply this 'diversifying' logic to the rest of the raid, as opposed to finding one pattern and spamming until dead.  And with the Lotus, your guide, actually giving you the general idea of what to do, but leaving you to figure out how to do it.

 

Am I the only one who thinks that would be more fun?

I would love this.

 

Actually, I already love it!  This is the kind of presentation I'd like to have for the easy tier of a raid.  She's not holding our hands but she's not leaving us in the dark either.

[TaylorsContraction]

This thread makes me sad because it reminds me of Darkspore.  See this game was awesome when it first came out, and bosses were really hard. I remember it took me and my friends two days to figure out how to beat some of the bosses on the hardest difficulty. We were the first people to hit the ladder by clearing the game on the hardest difficulty as well. I considered the learning experience a fun challenge. We tried so many different strategies and approaches. It was one of those trial and error games, you try different things till you succeed. You had to have end-game gear to pull it off. By end-game gear I mean every class unlocked so you can mix and match classes until you find the one that gets the job done. About 3 weeks after we cleared the bosses the enemies were nerfed to crap because people complained "It was too hard this is atrocious why you make game so difficult googoogaga". The game became so easy I quit soon after because all the challenge was more or less gone from it.

 

Warframe isn't about "oh I have my favorite warframe that I like to use all the time for everything". Every warframe is a weapon just like your arsenal of primaries and secondaries. Every warframe has a place in different missions for different goals, choosing certain warframes facilitates the progression of certain missions with extreme ease, while using others results in you climbing an uphill battle. Look at almost every tactical alert since Escalation, they present a challenge but if handled with the right warframes it can be done quite easily. And CC isn't always the answer, the Manic tactical alert and Black Seed alerts are perfect examples where CC won't help you. So use some other strategy.

 

You either use all the tools at your disposal or some of them and limit yourself. You guys went willy nilly into a trial with a random selection of frames, what do you expect to happen??? You should expect to FAIL and learn from your mistakes and pick better frames next time. That is the nature of Warframe, that is how every tac-alert is typically done now a days. Think of the tac alerts as training for these harder missions.

 

The current trials happen to be CC spam hell for easy and quick completion. For someone who runs trials every day CC spam is the most efficient way to go, I don't want to spend an hour fighting an uphill battle when I can finish the mission in 25 minutes instead. My friends and I have ran raids with non cc frames for fun just to see if it is doable and as a personal challenge. We did it, but it was MUCH MUCH harder. No disarm = prepare to die A LOT.

 

Bottom line is, I know the majority of people are like OP. They have the mentality of "If I go into a mission I should automatically be guaranteed to beat it.". You may disagree with this statement op but that's exactly what you're saying. I'm an old &#! gamer (29 years old), and my gaming mentality is more in line with that of Warframe's mentality. I believe when I go into a mission classed as challenging, I better get ready for a whopping, but have my mental notepad ready to keep track of what can make my next attempt better. Rinse repeat till you reach a point where you've mastered the level with the tools available to you.

[MagPrime]

This thread makes me sad because it reminds me of Darkspore.  See this game was awesome when it first came out, and bosses were really hard. I remember it took me and my friends two days to figure out how to beat some of the bosses on the hardest difficulty. We were the first people to hit the ladder by clearing the game on the hardest difficulty as well. I considered the learning experience a fun challenge. We tried so many different strategies and approaches. It was one of those trial and error games, you try different things till you succeed. You had to have end-game gear to pull it off. By end-game gear I mean every class unlocked so you can mix and match classes until you find the one that gets the job done. About 3 weeks after we cleared the bosses the enemies were nerfed to crap because people complained "It was too hard this is atrocious why you make game so difficult googoogaga". The game became so easy I quit soon after because all the challenge was more or less gone from it.

 

Warframe isn't about "oh I have my favorite warframe that I like to use all the time for everything". Every warframe is a weapon just like your arsenal of primaries and secondaries. Every warframe has a place in different missions for different goals, choosing certain warframes facilitates the progression of certain missions with extreme ease, while using others results in you climbing an uphill battle. Look at almost every tactical alert since Escalation, they present a challenge but if handled with the right warframes it can be done quite easily. And CC isn't always the answer, the Manic tactical alert and Black Seed alerts are perfect examples where CC won't help you. So use some other strategy.

 

You either use all the tools at your disposal or some of them and limit yourself. You guys went willy nilly into a trial with a random selection of frames, what do you expect to happen??? You should expect to FAIL and learn from your mistakes and pick better frames next time. That is the nature of Warframe, that is how every tac-alert is typically done now a days. Think of the tac alerts as training for these harder missions.

 

The current trials happen to be CC spam hell for easy and quick completion. For someone who runs trials every day CC spam is the most efficient way to go, I don't want to spend an hour fighting an uphill battle when I can finish the mission in 25 minutes instead. My friends and I have ran raids with non cc frames for fun just to see if it is doable and as a personal challenge. We did it, but it was MUCH MUCH harder. No disarm = prepare to die A LOT.

 

Bottom line is, I know the majority of people are like OP. They have the mentality of "If I go into a mission I should automatically be guaranteed to beat it.". You may disagree with this statement op but that's exactly what you're saying. I'm an old ! gamer (29 years old), and my gaming mentality is more in line with that of Warframe's mentality. I believe when I go into a mission classed as challenging, I better get ready for a whopping, but have my mental notepad ready to keep track of what can make my next attempt better. Rinse repeat till you reach a point where you've mastered the level with the tools available to you.

 

At no point did I say I expected to win.  We went in knowing we would probably fail, but at least we would have had a lot of fun while learning the raid.  We were never given a clue as to what we were supposed to be aiming for. 

 

The difficulty of the raid is fine, I enjoyed that part, my complaint is that I am required to go to outside sources to figure out the goal of the raid.

 

And no one went in thinking that they would do just fine with their fav frame, everyone switched it up trying to get the best configuration for what we thought we would need.  I main Mag Prime, but I know she wasn't the best choice for those levels in that setting, so I went with a 'frame that I thought would be the most helpful in maximizing damage and providing support.  (Banshee)  Everyone else did the same.

 

You should really talk to someone before claiming you know their mentality or thought process, otherwise it makes you look arrogant and belittling.