Please Stop With That Stupid Damage Cap.

[TheBrsrkr]

To all of you telling the OP to git gud:

Damage caps should not invalidate entire classes of weapons. That is exactly what they are doing right now, though. A sniper rfle does high damage to make up for it's long reload time and slow fire rate. If you take the high damage away, something has to be done to compensate.

[lightini]

The problem is that those specific weapons can not fill the role of what they were designed for. Right now, I am talking about general game balance/design phylosophy; let's look at some very popular examples: Borderlands and Fallout (since 3). Those game have pretty simillar weapon types and overall weapon design to Warframe, but with one exception: you could stack buffs/ammo/etc to be a one-shot killing machine, capable of dispatching heavy enemies quite good, but with a big trade off: you were not effective vs regular mobs, which can possible swarm and outgun you, unless you change your weapon. 

 

This is NOT working in Waframe. In Waframe, all you have to do is grab a DPS King (like Boltor Prime) and just spray. Which leads to you being more effective vs trash mobs (like it should be), meanwhile again, more effective vs heavies\elites because the damage cap is preventing snipers\shotties from unleashing their potential: high damage per shot.

 

I hope you get it now?

 

 

 

 

Well, I know I will get a warning for this, but you are a @(*()$ moron. It is a FEEDBACK forum and I am giving FEEDBACK. If you're are brain-dead, I am sorry, I can't help you. Don't even bother replying to this thread anymore, because I think everyone got how stupid and uneducated you are.

 

Will you stop comparing warframe to any FPS outside? it's warframe, not borderlands or fallout, it works with it's own system, different from the others.

 

And also, one shot this, one shot that, what is the fun in this? i played borderlands and the weapon scales like ennemies scale, in warframes they do not.

In warframe as you progress the game, high level players are found bored, beacause they don't feel any chalenge anymore!

 

And my main is Braton P, with corrosive projection in aura, i can t4 with it. And that's why you have, primary, secondary and melee weapons, in case one dosn't work.

 

You are just narrowing your problem, warframe is warframe, borderlands is borderlands. we can pick some ideas, but they will never be the same.

[quan256]

Will you stop comparing warframe to any FPS outside? it's warframe, not borderlands or fallout, it works with it's own system, different from the others.

 

And also, one shot this, one shot that, what is the fun in this? i played borderlands and the weapon scales like ennemies scale, in warframes they do not.

In warframe as you progress the game, high level players are found bored, beacause they don't feel any chalenge anymore!

 

And my main is Braton P, with corrosive projection in aura, i can t4 with it. And that's why you have, primary, secondary and melee weapons, in case one dosn't work.

 

You are just narrowing your problem, warframe is warframe, borderlands is borderlands. we can pick some ideas, but they will never be the same.

You know that he doesnt ask to one shot everything? He is asking to reward people who use single hard hitting weapon instead of penalizing them. A decked out Opticor does 2k damage to Juggy, a decked out Torid does 2k damage to Juggy and tick over multiple seconds and doesnt require you to aim and plan your shot carefully. See the problem?

[Vance.Stubbs]

Will you stop comparing warframe to any FPS outside? it's warframe, not borderlands or fallout, it works with it's own system, different from the others.

 

And also, one shot this, one shot that, what is the fun in this? i played borderlands and the weapon scales like ennemies scale, in warframes they do not.

In warframe as you progress the game, high level players are found bored, beacause they don't feel any chalenge anymore!

 

And my main is Braton P, with corrosive projection in aura, i can t4 with it. And that's why you have, primary, secondary and melee weapons, in case one dosn't work.

 

You are just narrowing your problem, warframe is warframe, borderlands is borderlands. we can pick some ideas, but they will never be the same.

 

Warframe is in "Beta" and is a subject to change. I am giving my ideas because it think is not acceptable for some gameplay mechanics to completely ruin a weapon class. 

[DarthVader]

Its PVE what don't you get? the game is easy if anything DE to make to game harder for people like you who no doubt live on draco sort it out you mess.

[StonedMakak]

You guys might wanna dial back with the insults, the thread touches upon an important issue, it would be a shame if it got locked. To the OP: the beautiful thing about being right is that you are simply right. You don't need validation from people who don't get it. 

 

Also:

 

 

You know that he doesnt ask to one shot everything? He is asking to reward people who use single hard hitting weapon instead of penalizing them. A decked out Opticor does 2k damage to Juggy, a decked out Torid does 2k damage to Juggy and tick over multiple seconds and doesnt require you to aim and plan your shot carefully. See the problem?

 

This. Skillful play should be rewarded, not googling for FOTM build for FOTM weapon and spraying blindly. 

Edited June 6, 2015 by tisdfogg

[DarthVader]

You guys might wanna dial back with the insults, the thread touches upon an important issue, it would be a shame if it got locked. To the OP: the beautiful thing about being right is that you are simply right. You don't need validation from people who don't get it. 

 

Also:

 

 

 

This. Skillful play should be rewarded, not googling for FOTM build for FOTM weapon and spraying blindly. 

Skillful play? its Pve what skill is needed on warframe? mod the weapon aim and shoot and it will kill if not shoot again or sit on draco and leech that is what warframe has come to.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Removed several off topic and rude replies.

Let's please keep the discussion respectful and on point.

[StonedMakak]

Skillful play? its Pve what skill is needed on warframe? mod the weapon aim and shoot and it will kill if not shoot again or sit on draco and leech that is what warframe has come to.

 

And one of the reasons that it is the current state of Warframe, is that skillful play is not promoted. What Warframe encourages is mindless spamming and AFK gameplay as you so adequately described. OP wants to contributed to the betterment of the game by suggesting a reward for using weapons that are harder to use. No idea why you have a problem with it.

[Davoodoo]

Its called "balance"

What?? not listening to actual ideas for balance and instead introducing damage gating??

 

Its not balance, thats idea opposite to it which ppl like you actually promote because you refuse to nerf anything, so devs go around it and introduce enemies which nerf your dmg instead.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Davoodoo

[CTanGod]

The reason some enemies have damage cap is because otherwise they would be trivial, Imagine 1 shotting the jugg. Would it live up to the role it's supposed to fill ? Damage cap is only annoying when enemies have Invincibility phases, Nullifiers are fine because if you could just disable to shield in 1 shot it would make the unit useless.

[EvilChaosKnight]

You know that he doesnt ask to one shot everything? He is asking to reward people who use single hard hitting weapon instead of penalizing them. A decked out Opticor does 2k damage to Juggy, a decked out Torid does 2k damage to Juggy and tick over multiple seconds and doesnt require you to aim and plan your shot carefully. See the problem?

2 more cents from me.

No corrosive projection auras were used:

- Tonkor both explosion and grenade impact dealt ~1500 dmg per hit. Grenades bounce off the weakspots and don't detonate.

- Opticor fully charged did the same DMG as non-charged shot of ~800 per hit, ~35 on armored bits.

- Vaykor Marelok did approx ~500 per hit but tended to miss the tentacles often, ~24 on armored bits

- Soma Pr did 108 DMG per bullet hit, ~5 on armored bits.

Additional notes: crit and non-crit hits deal exactly the same damage which seems deeply wrong.

 

All in all it was a fun fight but I have a legit concern of snipers and bows being pushed even deeped in the gutter.

 

UPD:

 

The reason some enemies have damage cap is because otherwise they would be trivial, Imagine 1 shotting the jugg. Would it live up to the role it's supposed to fill ? Damage cap is only annoying when enemies have Invincibility phases, Nullifiers are fine because if you could just disable to shield in 1 shot it would make the unit useless.

Nullifiers are just a speed bump for the current DPS kings of Boltor and Soma Pr. If snipers could kill them as fast (and they will have to 1 shot the bubble to do so) it would only be balanced IMO. By the time you shoot your sniper once or twice, any AR type will have more, than enough bullets in that shield to collapse it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by EvilChaosKnight

[TotallyLagging]

Its PVE what don't you get? the game is easy if anything DE to make to game harder for people like you who no doubt live on draco sort it out you mess.

"It's PvE, it doesn't need balance" 

 

No. 

 

 

We're not trying to one-shot everything. We're trying to do a reasonable amount of damage using snipers and bows.

 

Damage cap is fine if done correctly, and in Juggernaut and Nullifier bubble's case, it's not. Top tier rifles could reach at least 1k/shot, with some even reaching the 2k cap on top of their high firerate. There's basically no reason to use snipers right now and they're making it worse every update.

[quan256]

The reason some enemies have damage cap is because otherwise they would be trivial, Imagine 1 shotting the jugg. Would it live up to the role it's supposed to fill ? Damage cap is only annoying when enemies have Invincibility phases, Nullifiers are fine because if you could just disable to shield in 1 shot it would make the unit useless.

But damage capping is not the right way to do it. Why not just simple high armor?

[lightini]

Aren't you guys too harsh on the situation?

 

Warframe is in beta, subject to any changes whatsoever? we just had an early and unfinished introduction of a new mechanic, of course it's bound to tweaks later on. but as i said, you are mixing 2 problems with different solutions. So please refocus the topic beacause i'm lost at what the point is?

 

The damage cap is not only affecting one weapon class in particular, going full melee will give more damage over time than the high dps full auto.

 

And as far as i read this topic, you only used a single class of weapons in a certain situation, and never thought about a tactic to go around it?

[letir]

The reason some enemies have damage cap is because otherwise they would be trivial, Imagine 1 shotting the jugg. Would it live up to the role it's supposed to fill ? Damage cap is only annoying when enemies have Invincibility phases, Nullifiers are fine because if you could just disable to shield in 1 shot it would make the unit useless.

"One-shot everything" it's a weapon problem. Weapon should be balanced properly, this is balance. Damage cap is lazy decision, when developers cannot handle their own tools and create reasonable challenge with proper methods.

 

At least, in Warframe.

[DietEbolaCola]

To all of you telling the OP to git gud:

Damage caps should not invalidate entire classes of weapons. That is exactly what they are doing right now, though. A sniper rfle does high damage to make up for it's long reload time and slow fire rate. If you take the high damage away, something has to be done to compensate.

 

They SHOULD invalidate entire classes of weapons to force build variety and using strategy and tactics to take out your opponents.

[Vance.Stubbs]

Skillful play? its Pve what skill is needed on warframe? mod the weapon aim and shoot and it will kill if not shoot again or sit on draco and leech that is what warframe has come to.

 

Can anyone translate that schizophasia to me and why is he talking about Draco problem?

 

Also, speaking about skill: just checked your profile, your top weapon is Soma and you have 36% accuracy, meanwhile I have 53% (http://i.imgur.com/4z3pDR6.jpg). So you're totally not in the place to speak regarding skill, m8. 

[lightini]

But damage capping is not the right way to do it. Why not just simple high armor?

 

Because we still have finisher damage like ash or hydroid, still too easy. we come back to trials, were you just CC the ennemies in some situation with no intention to fight, so no weapons use.

[DarthVader]

Can anyone translate that schizophasia to me and why is he talking about Draco problem?

 

Also, speaking about skill: just checked your profile, your top weapon is Soma and you have 36% accuracy, meanwhile I have 53% (http://i.imgur.com/4z3pDR6.jpg). So you're totally not in the place to speak regarding skill, m8. 

loool i used the soma over a year ago since my top weapon because i have 100days + hard to get the weapon to change look daikyu 99% accuracy means nothing dread 75% and if u look braton prime will be my most used 1% behind if you look.

 

Edit: just looked my soma has 51%

 

Soma 13% used, 71,456,296xp, 183,508kills, 9044 assist and 51% accuracy from when i started look better next time.

Edited June 6, 2015 by WizMandem94

[quan256]

Because we still have finisher damage like ash or hydroid, still too easy. we come back to trials, were you just CC the ennemies in some situation with no intention to fight, so no weapons use.

Trial is the problem with level scaling design. Enemies damage scaled up to the point they kill you in a moment so CC and other cheap methods are required to stay alive.

 

Also you can't use finisher damage on Juggernaut. And what's wrong with finisher damage killing an opponent in one hit? It requires set up with power and u have to up close with it.

[StonedMakak]

 

Aren't you guys too harsh on the situation?

 

Warframe is in beta, subject to any changes whatsoever? we just had an early and unfinished introduction of a new mechanic, of course it's bound to tweaks later on. but as i said, you are mixing 2 problems with different solutions. So please refocus the topic beacause i'm lost at what the point is?

 

The damage cap is not only affecting one weapon class in particular, going full melee will give more damage over time than the high dps full auto.

 

And as far as i read this topic, you only used a single class of weapons in a certain situation, and never thought about a tactic to go around it?

 

 

The point is: you have two weapons one is easy peasy spray&pray, the other slow-firing, hard to aim sniper. Landing shots with the sniper, while much harder, deals less overall damage than option #1. We want them to do more or less the same overall damage. 

 

They SHOULD invalidate entire classes of weapons to force build variety and using strategy and tactics to take out your opponents.

 

And in what situations are rifles invalidated? Or any other high ROF weapons for that matter? Genuine questions, have not ran into situation like that myself. 

[EvilChaosKnight]

They SHOULD invalidate entire classes of weapons to force build variety and using strategy and tactics to take out your opponents.

Pffft, what variety are you talking about? XD

I am yet to see Boltor Pr not being good at any combat situation. Same goes for Soma (Pr) or any mid-high ROF gun.

[DelialFallen]

And one of the reasons that it is the current state of Warframe, is that skillful play is not promoted. What Warframe encourages is mindless spamming and AFK gameplay as you so adequately described. OP wants to contributed to the betterment of the game by suggesting a reward for using weapons that are harder to use. No idea why you have a problem with it.

 

Although I agree sniper rifles may need a revision, I'm not sure I would call moving crosshair to one spot, wait for opportunity, click mouse button, win prize "skillful play".

 

In my view, skillful play requires a variety of factors to be used in conjunction for achieving victory.

[lightini]

Trial is the problem with level scaling design. Enemies damage scaled up to the point they kill you in a moment so CC and other cheap methods are required to stay alive.

 

Also you can't use finisher damage on Juggernaut. And what's wrong with finisher damage killing an opponent in one hit? It requires set up with power and u have to up close with it.

 

You said it, just another "cheap" method to stay alive, wether it's weapons, CC, one shot finisher or whatever, there is no difference.

 

 

The point is: you have two weapons one is easy peasy spray&pray, the other slow-firing, hard to aim sniper. Landing shots with the sniper, while much harder, deals less overall damage than option #1. We want them to do more or less the same overall damage. 

 

 

We agree on this point, the problem in question is the damage mitigation, not the weapon class