A Full Rework Of The Lato And Skana Weapon Families

[timerwin63]

Disclaimer. The following is a massive wall of text, but I felt that it was necessary. I intend to use this thread for constructive criticism of the Lato and Skana weapon balancing, and if it gets enough support, I'd like to get DE's attention. If you're only interested in the weapon changes, they start after the numbered list, although I strongly encourage you to read all of it. All the information found in nested spoilers can be found here in a more condensed spreadsheet format.

Greeting, fellow Tenno. I've recently begun browsing the forums and taking note of seemingly extremely divisive issues. One such common issue is the debate that is apparently constantly raging about whether or not to buff Founders' weapons or not. As a result, I've spent the last several days attempting to rebalance the Lato and Skana families to a point where the community can agree that this rebalance would be ideal for everyone.

One of the first things that stood out was the lack of MK-1 weapons in the Lato and Skana families, despite their presence in every other family of starter weapons. I hope to fix that by adding a MK-1 Lato and MK-1 Skana to the game in place of their regular counterparts in Vor's Prize as starter weapons.

I'd also like to preface this discussion by saying that I am not a founder. I missed my chance to be a founder, and while I would love to have the Lato Prime, Skana Prime, and Excalibur Prime, I recognize that these items are exclusives that were given to the people that gave DE a whopping $1,388,000 ("Solar Landmark" section) in Grand Master money alone. I recognize that this group of individuals has funded a game that I love and enjoy playing, and that, without them, it's possible that none of us would be able to get to play it today, and they deserve to have weapons that are usable in high level content where they're bound to be.

Next, I'd like to address some of the more common concerns from the rest of the WF community about buffing Founders' weapons. Keep in mind, I'm not simply suggesting we buff Founders' weapons, I'm also suggesting an entire rework of the two weapon families.

 

1: "I can't get the Founders' Weapons so they deserve to be bad weapons, used only as trophies."

There's really not much I can say about this one. This train of thought is childish and honestly, I'd expect better from this community. This is a sentiment I often hear voiced by people who joined the game after the Founders program was finished, and is quite unpleasant to read. If this is your belief, please, take it elsewhere as it's not constructive and as such, I don't think it belongs in this thread.

 

2: "This game offers you everything for free, no one should be able to just pay to get the best weapons."

The changes I'm proposing don't make the Founders' weapons the best weapons in the game by a long shot, and I have the numbers to back it up. No, buffing the Founders' weapons does not make the game "pay to win." No, you're not missing out on anything except for mastery fodder by not having these weapons. As previously stated, if this argument is your intention, please don't bring it into this thread, as I want to keep this a place for constructive feeback only.

 

3: "Founders knew that they were buying cosmetic items when they purchased the Founders' packs. Why change that now?"

Founders were promised exclusive weapons and a frame when they purchased the Founders' Packs. Nowhere in the agreement they assumed with DE when they purchased said packs was a clause that said "Oh, by the way, your weapons will only be cosmetic accessories in the future and/or get tossed into oblivion with the rest of the mastery fodder." These weapons are not skins, and should be treated as weapons.

 

4: "The Lato and Skana are starter weapons, and as such, the Lato Prime and Skana Prime are starter primes. Why make them anything better than a regular weapon?"

I'll address this concern shortly. Just know that I've taken it into account.


Burst DPS and Melee DPS were calculated with (Crit Chance * Crit Multi + (1 - Crit Chance)) * Damage/Hit * Attack Rate
Sustained DPS calculated as (Burst DPS) * (Mag Size / Fire Rate) / (Mag Size / Fire Rate + Reload Time)

These equations gave me values within rounding error to those shown on Warframe-Builder.com for existing weapons, so I stuck with them.

Without further ado, I'd like to present my fixes. I'll start with the Lato family.


The Current Lato Family:

Lato:

Total Damage: 18
Impact: 4.5
Puncture: 4.5
Slash: 9
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Multiplier: 1.8x
Status Chance: 1.0%
Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/second
Accuracy: 18.2
Mag Size: 15
Reload Time: 1.0s

Burst DPS: 125.42
Sustained DPS: 86.7

Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market

Aklato:

Total Damage: 18
Impact: 2.7
Puncture: 4.5
Slash: 10.8
Crit Chance: 2.5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 1.0%
Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/second
Accuracy: 11.1
Mag Size: 30
Reload Time: 2.4s

Burst DPS: 151.27
Sustained DPS: 90.91

Production Cost: 25,000 Credits in the Market

Lato Vandal:

Total Damage: 20
Impact: 3
Puncture: 5
Slash: 12
Crit Chance: 7.5%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 5.0%
Fire Rate: 5.0 rounds/second
Accuracy: 23.0
Mag Size: 15
Reload Time: 1.2s

Burst DPS: 107.5
Sustained DPS: 76.79

Lato Prime:

Total Damage: 21
Impact: 2
Puncture: 4
Slash: 15
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 5.0%
Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/second
Accuracy: 18.2
Mag Size: 15
Reload Time: 1.2s

Burst DPS: 147.74
Sustained DPS: 96.18

My Suggested Lato Family:

MK-1 Lato

Total Damage: 18
Impact: 4.5
Puncture: 4.5
Slash: 9
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 1.0%
Fire Rate: 6.5 rounds/second
Accuracy: 18.2
Mag Size: 15
Reload Time: 1.0s

Burst DPS: 119.93
Sustained DPS: 83.67

Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market

Existing MK-1 Secondaries

MK-1 Furis:

Total Damage: 13
Impact: 2
Puncture: 9.1
Slash: 1.9
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 1.0%
Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/second
Accuracy: 15.4
Mag Size: 35
Reload Time: 1.4s

Burst DPS: 113.3
Sustained DPS: 85.06

MK-1 Kunai:

Total Damage: 40
Impact: 4
Puncture: 30
Slash: 6
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 2.5%
Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/second
Accuracy: 100
Mag Size: 10
Reload Time: .8s

Burst DPS: 138.6
Sustained DPS: 109.65

Lato:

Total Damage: 31
Impact: 3.5
Puncture: 5.5
Slash: 22
Crit Chance: 7.5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.8x
Status Chance: 15%
Fire Rate: 6.2 rounds/second
Accuracy: 18.2
Mag Size: 15
Reload Time: 1.2s

Burst DPS: 203.73
Sustained DPS: 136.18

Blueprint Cost: 15,000 Credits
Production Cost: 15,000 Credits, 250 Salvage, 650 Alloy Plate, 550 Ferrite, 200 Polymer Bundles

Aklato:

Total Damage: 31
Impact: 2.4
Puncture: 4.3
Slash: 24.3
Crit Chance: 7.5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.8x
Status Chance: 12.5%
Fire Rate: 8.1 rounds/second
Accuracy: 11.8
Mag Size: 30
Reload Time: 1.6s

Burst DPS: 266.17
Sustained DPS: 185.87

Blueprint Cost: 20,000 Credits
Production Cost: 20,000 Credits, Lato, Lato, 2 Orokin Cells

Lato Vandal:

Total Damage: 37.6
Impact: 3.1
Puncture: 3.1
Slash: 31.4
Crit Chance: 25%
Crit Multiplier: 2.2x

Status Chance: 10%
Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/second
Accuracy: 19.6
Mag Size: 15
Reload Time: 1.4s

Burst DPS: 283.5
Sustained DPS: 183.93

Production Cost: N/A

 

Prisma Lato:

Total Damage: 40.7

Impact: 2.4
Puncture: 1.8
Slash: 36.5
Crit Chance: 7.5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.7x
Status Chance: 45%
Fire Rate: 6.6 rounds/second
Accuracy: 26
Mag Size: 16
Reload Time: 1.4s

Burst DPS: 282.72
Sustained DPS: 179.22

Production Cost: Brought by Baro Ki'Teer. Maybe 200,000 credits and 500 Ducats to bring it in line with Mara Detron. Maybe less to average out what other weapons cost.

 

Lato Prime:

Total Damage: 43.2
Impact: 5.1
Puncture: 7.1
Slash: 31
Crit Chance: 16%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 20%
Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/second
Accuracy: 18.2
Mag Size: 15
Reload Time: 1.35s

Burst DPS: 290.65
Sustained DPS: 190.97

Production Cost: N/A

Other Common "End-Game" Secondaries for Comparison

Vasto Prime:

Total Damage: 60
Impact: 9
Puncture: 9
Slash: 42
Crit Chance: 15.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 15.0%
Fire Rate: 5.4 rounds/second
Accuracy: 16
Mag Size: 16
Reload Time: 1.0s

Burst DPS: 372.6
Sustained DPS: 196.11

Lex Prime:

Total Damage: 85
Impact: 8.5
Puncture: 68
Slash: 8.5
Crit Chance: 20.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 20.0%
Fire Rate: 2.1 rounds/second
Accuracy: 16
Mag Size: 8
Reload Time: 2.3s

Burst DPS: 214.2
Sustained DPS: 133.56

Synoid Gammacor:

Total Damage: 28
Magnetic: 28
Crit Chance: 10.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 20.0%
Fire Rate: 15 rounds/second
Accuracy: 100
Mag Size: 150
Reload Time: 2.0s

Burst DPS: 462
Sustained DPS: 385

Marelok:

Total Damage: 160
Impact: 80
Puncture: 16
Slash: 64
Crit Chance: 15.0%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 30.0%
Fire Rate: 2 rounds/second
Accuracy: 10
Mag Size: 6
Reload Time: 1.7s

Burst DPS: 344
Sustained DPS: 219.57

Vaykor Marelok:

Total Damage: 160
Impact: 96
Puncture: 16
Slash: 48
Crit Chance: 20.0%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 35.0%
Fire Rate: 2 rounds/second
Accuracy: 10
Mag Size: 6
Reload Time: 1.7s

Burst DPS: 352
Sustained DPS: 224.68

Brakk:

Total Damage: 149.5
Impact: 67
Puncture: 37.5
Slash: 45
Crit Chance: 15.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Fire Rate: 5 rounds/second
Accuracy: 5.6
Mag Size: 5
Reload Time: 1.0s

Burst DPS: 859.63
Sustained DPS: 429.81

*Suffers from damage falloff

Akbolto:

Total Damage: 45
Impact: 4.5
Puncture: 40.5
Slash: 0
Crit Chance: 15.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Fire Rate: 10 rounds/second
Accuracy: 26.7
Mag Size: 30
Reload Time: 2.6s

Burst DPS: 472.5
Sustained DPS: 253.13

Telos Akbolto:

Total Damage: 50
Impact: 5
Puncture: 45
Slash: 0
Crit Chance: 10.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 12.5%
Fire Rate: 10 rounds/second
Accuracy: 26.7
Mag Size: 30
Reload Time: 2.6s

Burst DPS: 550
Sustained DPS: 294.64

Despair:

Total Damage: 55
Impact: 2.75
Puncture: 44.0
Slash: 8.25
Crit Chance: 2.5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 12.5%
Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/second
Accuracy: 100
Mag Size: 10
Reload Time: .8s

Burst DPS: 183.77
Sustained DPS: 145.39

Hikou Prime:

Total Damage: 32
Impact: 3.2
Puncture: 27.2
Slash: 1.6
Crit Chance: 2.5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 15.0%
Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/second
Accuracy: 100
Mag Size: 26
Reload Time: .5s

Burst DPS: 187.92
Sustained DPS: 169.06

And now the Skana family:

The Current Skana Family:

Skana:

Total Damage: 35
Impact: 5.25
Puncture: 5.25
Slash: 24.5
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Attack Rate: .833
Jump Attack: 70
Slam Attack: 25
Slam Radius: 5.0m
Slide Attack: 75
Wall Attack: 140
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 29.88

Prisma Skana:

Total Damage: 35.1
Impact: 5.3
Puncture: 5.3
Slash: 24.5
Crit Chance: 20.0%
Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 35
Slam Attack: Unknown
Slam Radius: 4.0m
Slide Attack: 75
Wall Attack: 140
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 42.12

Skana Prime:

Total Damage: 42
Impact: 6.3
Puncture: 6.3
Slash: 29.4
Crit Chance: 10.0%
Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 84
Slam Attack: 84
Slam Radius: 1.0m
Slide Attack: 90
Wall Attack: 168
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 44.1

My Suggested Skana Family:

MK-1 Skana:

Total Damage: 35
Impact: 5.25
Puncture: 5.25
Slash: 24.5
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Attack Rate: .917
Jump Attack: 70
Slam Attack: 25
Slam Radius: 5.0m
Slide Attack: 750
Wall Attack: 140
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 32.9

Production Cost: 12,500 Credits in the Market

Existing MK-1 Melee Weapons

MK-1 Furax:

Total Damage: 30
Impact: 21
Puncture: 4.5
Slash: 4.5
Crit Chance: 20.0%
Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 60
Slam Attack: 25
Slam Radius: 3.0m
Slide Attack: 90
Wall Attack: 91
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 36

MK-1 Bo

Total Damage: 45
Impact: 40.5
Puncture: 4.5
Slash: 0
Crit Chance: 12.5%
Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 20.0%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 90
Slam Attack: Unknown
Slam Radius: Unknown
Slide Attack: 96
Wall Attack: 75
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 50.63

Skana:

Total Damage: 38.2
Impact: 5.7
Puncture: 5.7
Slash: 26.8
Crit Chance: 12.5%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 15.0%
Attack Rate: .979
Jump Attack: 81
Slam Attack: 45
Slam Radius: 2.5m
Slide Attack: 89
Wall Attack: 157
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 39.74

Blueprint Cost: 17,500 Credits in the Market
Production Cost: 18,000 Credits, 800 Salvage, 1200 Alloy Plate, 2 Morphics, 2 Gallium

Prisma Skana:

Total Damage: 43
Impact: 7.1
Puncture: 4.2
Slash: 31.7
Crit Chance: 20.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 12.5%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 86
Slam Attack: 40
Slam Radius: 3.0m
Slide Attack: 92
Wall Attack: 157
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 51.6

Skana Prime:

Total Damage: 50
Impact: 6.5
Puncture: 6.5
Slash: 37
Crit Chance: 15.0%
Crit Multiplier: 1.8x
Status Chance: 20%
Attack Rate: 1.1
Jump Attack: 107
Slam Attack: 58
Slam Radius: 2.5m
Slide Attack: 112
Wall Attack: 217
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 61.6

Other Common "End-Game" Melee Weapons for Comparison

Dakra Prime:

Total Damage: 60
Impact: 6
Puncture: 6
Slash: 48
Crit Chance: 15.0%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 120
Slam Attack: 25
Slam Radius: 3.0m
Slide Attack: 129
Wall Attack: 240
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 64.5

Dragon Nikana:

Total Damage: 85
Impact: 4.25
Puncture: 4.25
Slash: 72.25
Crit Chance: 15.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 15.0%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 182
Slam Attack: 170
Slam Radius: Unknown
Slide Attack: 182
Wall Attack: 182
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 97.75

Orthos Prime:

Total Damage: 65.1
Impact: 9.8
Puncture: 9.8
Slash: 45.5
Crit Chance: 10.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 15.0%
Attack Rate: 1.2
Jump Attack: 80
Slam Attack: 20
Slam Radius: 10.0m
Slide Attack: 144
Wall Attack: Unknown
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 85.93

Glaive Prime:

Total Damage: 35
Impact: 5.25
Puncture: 5.25
Slash: 24.5
Crit Chance: 5.0%
Crit Multiplier: 1.5x
Status Chance: 10.0%
Attack Rate: 1.2
Jump Attack: 105
Slam Attack: 70
Slam Radius: Unknown
Slide Attack: 175
Wall Attack: Unknown
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 43.05

*Throwing mechanic and channeling explosion adds potential damage and utility.

Galatine:

Total Damage: 125
Impact: 3.1
Puncture: 3.1
Slash: 118.8
Crit Chance: 10.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 20.0%
Attack Rate: 1.0
Jump Attack: 250
Slam Attack: 250
Slam Radius: 5.0m
Slide Attack: 250
Wall Attack: Unknown
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 137.5

Scindo Prime:

Total Damage: 130
Impact: 13
Puncture: 13
Slash: 104
Crit Chance: 20.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 15.0%
Attack Rate: .967
Jump Attack: 260
Slam Attack: 260
Slam Radius: 6.0m
Slide Attack: 260
Wall Attack: Unknown
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 150.85

Dual Ichor:

Total Damage: 35
Toxin: 35
Crit Chance: 25.0%
Crit Multiplier: 3.0x
Status Chance: 15.0%
Attack Rate: 1.1
Jump Attack: 70
Slam Attack: 140
Slam Radius: 1.0m
Slide Attack: 210
Wall Attack: Unknown
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 57.75

Bo Prime:

Total Damage: 75
Impact: 67.5
Puncture: 7.5
Slash: 0
Crit Chance: 12.5%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 25.0%
Attack Rate: 1.1
Jump Attack: 150
Slam Attack: Unknown
Slam Radius: Unknown
Slide Attack: 161
Wall Attack: 125
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 92.81

Tipedo:

Total Damage: 50
Impact: 5
Puncture: 5
Slash: 40
Crit Chance: 20.0%
Crit Multiplier: 2.0x
Status Chance: 20.0%
Attack Rate: 1.3
Jump Attack: Unknown
Slam Attack: 100
Slam Radius: Unknown
Slide Attack: 107
Wall Attack: 83
Stance Polarity:

DPS: 78

Edit 1: Slight formatting issues fixed.
Edit 2: Fixed new Skana stats as pointed out here.
Edit 3: Tweaked Skana Prime stats as requested here.

Edit 4: Added a Prisma Lato (prefix up for debate) for non-founders to have a Lato Prime equivalent weapon. I made it a very slash-heavy status weapon, with a base 45% status chance, allowing it to reach 99% with 2 dual stat elemental mods. Also made the Lato Vandal into a crit-based weapon. Considering swapping the stats for these, however.

Edited November 23, 2015 by timerwin63

[-Kryptyk-]

More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format?


no

[NikolaiLev]

I'm in favor of buffing old weapons up to the current power curve, though I'd rather nerf overpowered weapons.

 

Either or, I'd like to be able to use the Lato and Skana in endgame content.  I actually like those weapons.

[timerwin63]

More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format?

no

 

How is this raging? Please, enlighten me. All of the weapons in both weapon families were given a buff, including the Prisma Skana. This post is about making as many weapons viable as possible, not buffing founders weapons because the Prisma Skana exists.

Edited June 7, 2015 by timerwin63

[Xiusa]

Why do they need to be changed? Why even balance things that people use very few times, given that is the sole purpose of most of those weapons?

[DiBBz]

More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format?

no

 

your contribution level to this feedback thread is around the same as a 2 year old child trying to give feedback on what it doesn't like in life

 

thats how utterly useless you are...

 

if you dont have the time to properly read through it and give constructive feedback... then dont waste your energy typing next time and dont reply!

 

Where did all the good go in thoughtful feedback and inspiration... now its just a bunch of kiddies taking a hippy fit at everything they see that does not suit them

 

oh how i miss the good old Closed Beta days when there was less of you and more of people like timerwin!

Edited June 7, 2015 by DiBBz

[Rorgal_Sina]

More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format?

no

Pathetic reply.

 

How is this raging?

 

How are these suggestions bad?

 

Just how?

 

 

Why do they need to be changed? Why even balance things that people use very few times, given that is the sole purpose of most of those weapons?

Why even touch things people never use?

 

SO PEOPLE WILL USE THEM?

 

Also, nothing says that the Skana Prime and Lato Prime must be beginner weapons. I'll be fine with them if they're the level of Braton Prime.

[thelastpwnr99]

It's okay, timerwin.  I, for one, appreciate your theoretical buffs and the thought put in behind them.  This, of course, coming from a Master Founder, who wouldn't mind using Skana Prime more often.

 

  I see you, OP.  Keep fighting the good fight.  You're doing the Lord's work, son.

[osuman]

How is this raging? Please, enlighten me. All of the weapons in both weapon families were given a buff, including the Prisma Skana. This post is about making as many weapons viable as possible, not buffing founders weapons because the Prisma Skana exists.

Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons.

If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items?

[Xiusa]

 

Why even touch things people never use?

 

SO PEOPLE WILL USE THEM?

 

Also, nothing says that the Skana Prime and Lato Prime must be beginner weapons. I'll be fine with them if they're the level of Braton Prime.

If the Prime variants are brought in line with other Prime weaponry, I could understand.

None of the other weapons need to be touched at all tho

[DiBBz]

 

Disclaimer. The following is a massive wall of text, but I felt that it was necessary. I intend to use this thread for constructive criticism of the Lato and Skana weapon balancing, and if it gets enough support, I'd like to get DE's attention. If you're only interested in the weapon changes, they start after the numbered list, although I strongly encourage you to read all of it. All the information found in nested spoilers can be found here in a more condensed spreadsheet format.

 

Greeting, fellow Tenno. I've recently begun browsing the forums and taking note of seemingly extremely divisive issues. One such common issue is the debate that is apparently constantly raging about whether or not to buff Founders' weapons or not. As a result, I've spent the last several days attempting to rebalance the Lato and Skana families to a point where the community can agree that this rebalance would be ideal for everyone.

 

One of the first things that stood out was the lack of MK-1 weapons in the Lato and Skana families, despite their presence in every other family of starter weapons. I hope to fix that by adding a MK-1 Lato and MK-1 Skana to the game in place of their regular counterparts in Vor's Prize as starter weapons.

 

I'd also like to preface this discussion by saying that I am not a founder. I missed my chance to be a founder, and while I would love to have the Lato Prime, Skana Prime, and Excalibur Prime, I recognize that these items are exclusives that were given to the people that gave DE a whopping $1,388,000 ("Solar Landmark" section) in Grand Master money alone. I recognize that this group of individuals has funded a game that I love and enjoy playing, and that, without them, it's possible that none of us would be able to get to play it today, and they deserve to have weapons that are usable in high level content where they're bound to be.

 

Next, I'd like to address some of the more common concerns from the rest of the WF community about buffing Founders' weapons. Keep in mind, I'm not simply suggesting we buff Founders' weapons, I'm also suggesting an entire rework of the two weapon families.

 

1: "I can't get the Founders' Weapons so they deserve to be bad weapons, used only as trophies."

There's really not much I can say about this one. This train of thought is childish and honestly, I'd expect better from this community. This is a sentiment I often hear voiced by people who joined the game after the Founders program was finished, and is quite unpleasant to read. If this is your belief, please, take it elsewhere as it's not constructive and as such, I don't think it belongs in this thread.

2: "This game offers you everything for free, no one should be able to just pay to get the best weapons."

The changes I'm proposing don't make the Founders' weapons the best weapons in the game by a long shot, and I have the numbers to back it up. No, buffing the Founders' weapons does not make the game "pay to win." No, you're not missing out on anything except for mastery fodder by not having these weapons. As previously stated, if this argument is your intention, please don't bring it into this thread, as I want to keep this a place for constructive feeback only.

3: "Founders knew that they were buying cosmetic items when they purchased the Founders' packs. Why change that now?"

Founders were promised exclusive weapons and a frame when they purchased the Founders' Packs. Nowhere in the agreement they assumed with DE when they purchased said packs was a clause that said "Oh, by the way, your weapons will only be cosmetic accessories in the future and/or get tossed into oblivion with the rest of the mastery fodder." These weapons are not skins, and should be treated as weapons.

 

4: "The Lato and Skana are starter weapons, and as such, the Lato Prime and Skana Prime are starter primes. Why make them anything better than a regular weapon?"

I'll address this concern shortly. Just know that I've taken it into account.

 

Burst DPS and Melee DPS were calculated with (Crit Chance * Crit Multi + (1 - Crit Chance)) * Damage/Hit * Attack Rate

Sustained DPS calculated as (Burst DPS) * (Mag Size / Fire Rate) / (Mag Size / Fire Rate + Reload Time)

 

These equations gave me values within rounding error to those shown on Warframe-Builder.com for existing weapons, so I stuck with them.

 

Without further ado, I'd like to present my fixes. I'll start with the Lato family.

 

The Current Lato Family:

Lato:

Total Damage: 18

Impact: 4.5

Puncture: 4.5

Slash: 9

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Multiplier: 1.8x

Status Chance: 1.0%

Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/second

Accuracy: 18.2

Mag Size: 15

Reload Time: 1.0s

 

Burst DPS: 125.42

Sustained DPS: 86.7

 

Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market

 

Aklato:

Total Damage: 18

Impact: 2.7

Puncture: 4.5

Slash: 10.8

Crit Chance: 2.5%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 1.0%

Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/second

Accuracy: 11.1

Mag Size: 30

Reload Time: 2.4s

 

Burst DPS: 151.27

Sustained DPS: 90.91

 

Production Cost: 25,000 Credits in the Market

 

Lato Vandal:

Total Damage: 20

Impact: 3

Puncture: 5

Slash: 12

Crit Chance: 7.5%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 5.0%

Fire Rate: 5.0 rounds/second

Accuracy: 23.0

Mag Size: 15

Reload Time: 1.2s

 

Burst DPS: 107.5

Sustained DPS: 76.79

 

Lato Prime:

Total Damage: 21

Impact: 2

Puncture: 4

Slash: 15

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 5.0%

Fire Rate: 6.7 rounds/second

Accuracy: 18.2

Mag Size: 15

Reload Time: 1.2s

 

Burst DPS: 147.74

Sustained DPS: 96.18

 

My Suggested Lato Family:

MK-1 Lato

Total Damage: 18

Impact: 4.5

Puncture: 4.5

Slash: 9

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 1.0%

Fire Rate: 6.5 rounds/second

Accuracy: 18.2

Mag Size: 15

Reload Time: 1.0s

 

Burst DPS: 119.93

Sustained DPS: 83.67

 

Production Cost: 10,000 Credits in the Market

 

Existing MK-1 Secondaries

 

MK-1 Furis:

Total Damage: 13

Impact: 2

Puncture: 9.1

Slash: 1.9

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 1.0%

Fire Rate: 8.3 rounds/second

Accuracy: 15.4

Mag Size: 35

Reload Time: 1.4s

 

Burst DPS: 113.3

Sustained DPS: 85.06

 

MK-1 Kunai:

Total Damage: 40

Impact: 4

Puncture: 30

Slash: 6

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 2.5%

Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/second

Accuracy: 100

Mag Size: 10

Reload Time: .8s

 

Burst DPS: 138.6

Sustained DPS: 109.65

 

Lato:

Total Damage: 31

Impact: 3.5

Puncture: 5.5

Slash: 22

Crit Chance: 7.5%

Crit Multiplier: 1.8x

Status Chance: 15%

Fire Rate: 6.2 rounds/second

Accuracy: 18.2

Mag Size: 15

Reload Time: 1.2s

 

Burst DPS: 203.73

Sustained DPS: 136.18

 

Blueprint Cost: 15,000 Credits

Production Cost: 15,000 Credits, 250 Salvage, 650 Alloy Plate, 550 Ferrite, 200 Polymer Bundles

 

Aklato:

Total Damage: 31

Impact: 2.4

Puncture: 4.3

Slash: 24.3

Crit Chance: 7.5%

Crit Multiplier: 1.8x

Status Chance: 12.5%

Fire Rate: 8.1 rounds/second

Accuracy: 11.8

Mag Size: 30

Reload Time: 1.6s

 

Burst DPS: 266.17

Sustained DPS: 185.87

 

Blueprint Cost: 20,000 Credits

Production Cost: 20,000 Credits, Lato, Lato, 2 Orokin Cells

 

Lato Vandal:

Total Damage: 37

Impact: 8.1

Puncture: 4.3

Slash: 24.6

Crit Chance: 20%

Crit Multiplier: 1.9x

Status Chance: 10%

Fire Rate: 5.9 rounds/second

Accuracy: 19.6

Mag Size: 15

Reload Time: 1.4s

 

Burst DPS: 257.59

Sustained DPS: 166.12

 

Production Cost: N/A

 

Lato Prime:

Total Damage: 43.2

Impact: 5.1

Puncture: 7.1

Slash: 31

Crit Chance: 17.5%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 12.5%

Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/second

Accuracy: 18.2

Mag Size: 15

Reload Time: 1.35s

 

Burst DPS: 294.41

Sustained DPS: 193.43

 

Production Cost: N/A

 

Other Common "End-Game" Secondaries for Comparison

 

Vasto Prime:

Total Damage: 60

Impact: 9

Puncture: 9

Slash: 42

Crit Chance: 15.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 15.0%

Fire Rate: 5.4 rounds/second

Accuracy: 16

Mag Size: 16

Reload Time: 1.0s

 

Burst DPS: 372.6

Sustained DPS: 196.11

 

Lex Prime:

Total Damage: 85

Impact: 8.5

Puncture: 68

Slash: 8.5

Crit Chance: 20.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 20.0%

Fire Rate: 2.1 rounds/second

Accuracy: 16

Mag Size: 8

Reload Time: 2.3s

 

Burst DPS: 214.2

Sustained DPS: 133.56

 

Synoid Gammacor:

Total Damage: 28

Magnetic: 28

Crit Chance: 10.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 20.0%

Fire Rate: 15 rounds/second

Accuracy: 100

Mag Size: 150

Reload Time: 2.0s

 

Burst DPS: 462

Sustained DPS: 385

 

Marelok:

Total Damage: 160

Impact: 80

Puncture: 16

Slash: 64

Crit Chance: 15.0%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 30.0%

Fire Rate: 2 rounds/second

Accuracy: 10

Mag Size: 6

Reload Time: 1.7s

 

Burst DPS: 344

Sustained DPS: 219.57

 

Vaykor Marelok:

Total Damage: 160

Impact: 96

Puncture: 16

Slash: 48

Crit Chance: 20.0%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 35.0%

Fire Rate: 2 rounds/second

Accuracy: 10

Mag Size: 6

Reload Time: 1.7s

 

Burst DPS: 352

Sustained DPS: 224.68

 

Brakk:

Total Damage: 149.5

Impact: 67

Puncture: 37.5

Slash: 45

Crit Chance: 15.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Fire Rate: 5 rounds/second

Accuracy: 5.6

Mag Size: 5

Reload Time: 1.0s

 

Burst DPS: 859.63

Sustained DPS: 429.81

 

*Suffers from damage falloff

 

Akbolto:

Total Damage: 45

Impact: 4.5

Puncture: 40.5

Slash: 0

Crit Chance: 15.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Fire Rate: 10 rounds/second

Accuracy: 26.7

Mag Size: 30

Reload Time: 2.6s

 

Burst DPS: 472.5

Sustained DPS: 253.13

 

Telos Akbolto:

Total Damage: 50

Impact: 5

Puncture: 45

Slash: 0

Crit Chance: 10.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 12.5%

Fire Rate: 10 rounds/second

Accuracy: 26.7

Mag Size: 30

Reload Time: 2.6s

 

Burst DPS: 550

Sustained DPS: 294.64

 

Despair:

Total Damage: 55

Impact: 2.75

Puncture: 44.0

Slash: 8.25

Crit Chance: 2.5%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 12.5%

Fire Rate: 3.3 rounds/second

Accuracy: 100

Mag Size: 10

Reload Time: .8s

 

Burst DPS: 183.77

Sustained DPS: 145.39

 

Hikou Prime:

Total Damage: 32

Impact: 3.2

Puncture: 27.2

Slash: 1.6

Crit Chance: 2.5%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 15.0%

Fire Rate: 5.8 rounds/second

Accuracy: 100

Mag Size: 26

Reload Time: .5s

 

Burst DPS: 187.92

Sustained DPS: 169.06

 

And now the Skana family: 

 

The Current Skana Family:

Skana:

Total Damage: 35

Impact: 5.25

Puncture: 5.25

Slash: 24.5

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Attack Rate: .833

Jump Attack: 70

Slam Attack: 25

Slam Radius: 5.0m

Slide Attack: 75

Wall Attack: 140

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 29.88

 

Prisma Skana:

Total Damage: 35.1

Impact: 5.3

Puncture: 5.3

Slash: 24.5

Crit Chance: 20.0%

Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 35

Slam Attack: Unknown

Slam Radius: 4.0m

Slide Attack: 75

Wall Attack: 140

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 42.12

 

Skana Prime:

Total Damage: 42

Impact: 6.3

Puncture: 6.3

Slash: 29.4

Crit Chance: 10.0%

Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 84

Slam Attack: 84

Slam Radius: 1.0m

Slide Attack: 90

Wall Attack: 168

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 44.1

 

My Suggested Skana Family:

MK-1 Skana:

Total Damage: 35

Impact: 5.25

Puncture: 5.25

Slash: 24.5

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Miltiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Attack Rate: .917

Jump Attack: 70

Slam Attack: 25

Slam Radius: 5.0m

Slide Attack: 750

Wall Attack: 140

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 32.9

 

Production Cost: 12,500 Credits in the Market

 

Existing MK-1 Melee Weapons

 

MK-1 Furax:

Total Damage: 30

Impact: 21

Puncture: 4.5

Slash: 4.5

Crit Chance: 20.0%

Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 60

Slam Attack: 25

Slam Radius: 3.0m

Slide Attack: 90

Wall Attack: 91

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 36

 

MK-1 Bo

Total Damage: 45

Impact: 40.5

Puncture: 4.5

Slash: 0

Crit Chance: 12.5%

Crit Miltiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 20.0%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 90

Slam Attack: Unknown

Slam Radius: Unknown

Slide Attack: 96

Wall Attack: 75

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 50.63

 

Prisma Skana:

Total Damage: 43

Impact: 7.1

Puncture: 4.2

Slash: 31.7

Crit Chance: 20.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 12.5%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 86

Slam Attack: 40

Slam Radius: 3.0m

Slide Attack: 92

Wall Attack: 157

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 51.6

 

Skana Prime:

Total Damage: 54

Impact: 8.5

Puncture: 8.5

Slash: 37

Crit Chance: 17.5%

Crit Multiplier: 1.8x

Status Chance: 12.5%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 107

Slam Attack: 58

Slam Radius: 2.5m

Slide Attack: 112

Wall Attack: 217

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 61.56

 

Other Common "End-Game" Melee Weapons for Comparison

 

Dakra Prime:

Total Damage: 60

Impact: 6

Puncture: 6

Slash: 48

Crit Chance: 15.0%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 120

Slam Attack: 25

Slam Radius: 3.0m

Slide Attack: 129

Wall Attack: 240

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 64.5

 

Dragon Nikana:

Total Damage: 85

Impact: 4.25

Puncture: 4.25

Slash: 72.25

Crit Chance: 15.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 15.0%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 182

Slam Attack: 170

Slam Radius: Unknown

Slide Attack: 182

Wall Attack: 182

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 97.75

 

Orthos Prime:

Total Damage: 65.1

Impact: 9.8

Puncture: 9.8

Slash: 45.5

Crit Chance: 10.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 15.0%

Attack Rate: 1.2

Jump Attack: 80

Slam Attack: 20

Slam Radius: 10.0m

Slide Attack: 144

Wall Attack: Unknown

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 85.93

 

Glaive Prime:

Total Damage: 35

Impact: 5.25

Puncture: 5.25

Slash: 24.5

Crit Chance: 5.0%

Crit Multiplier: 1.5x

Status Chance: 10.0%

Attack Rate: 1.2

Jump Attack: 105

Slam Attack: 70

Slam Radius: Unknown

Slide Attack: 175

Wall Attack: Unknown

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 43.05

 

Galatine:

Total Damage: 125

Impact: 3.1

Puncture: 3.1

Slash: 118.8

Crit Chance: 10.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 20.0%

Attack Rate: 1.0

Jump Attack: 250

Slam Attack: 250

Slam Radius: 5.0m

Slide Attack: 250

Wall Attack: Unknown

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 137.5

 

Scindo Prime:

Total Damage: 130

Impact: 13

Puncture: 13

Slash: 104

Crit Chance: 20.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 15.0%

Attack Rate: .967

Jump Attack: 260

Slam Attack: 260

Slam Radius: 6.0m

Slide Attack: 260

Wall Attack: Unknown

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 150.85

 

Dual Ichor:

Total Damage: 35

Toxin: 35

Crit Chance: 25.0%

Crit Multiplier: 3.0x

Status Chance: 15.0%

Attack Rate: 1.1

Jump Attack: 70

Slam Attack: 140

Slam Radius: 1.0m

Slide Attack: 210

Wall Attack: Unknown

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 57.75

 

Bo Prime:

Total Damage: 75

Impact: 67.5

Puncture: 7.5

Slash: 0

Crit Chance: 12.5%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 25.0%

Attack Rate: 1.1

Jump Attack: 150

Slam Attack: Unknown

Slam Radius: Unknown

Slide Attack: 161

Wall Attack: 125

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 92.81

 

Tipedo:

Total Damage: 50

Impact: 5

Puncture: 5

Slash: 40

Crit Chance: 20.0%

Crit Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 20.0%

Attack Rate: 1.3

Jump Attack: Unknown

Slam Attack: 100

Slam Radius: Unknown

Slide Attack: 107

Wall Attack: 83

Stance Polarity:

 

DPS: 78

 

Edit: Slight formatting issues fixed.

 

 

 

How is this raging? Please, enlighten me. All of the weapons in both weapon families were given a buff, including the Prisma Skana. This post is about making as many weapons viable as possible, not buffing founders weapons because the Prisma Skana exists.

 

this man and along with the very few other F2P players that understand... needs to be gifted a special gift straight from the gods of warframe and be blessed upon with a masters founder pack!

 

 

If the Prime variants are brought in line with other Prime weaponry, I could understand.

None of the other weapons need to be touched at all tho

 

 

they kinda do tho... warframe is coming to the point in witch weapons are being tiered.. witch was obviously not what most where expecting back in the early days! all weapons where very decent  and held their own and even again lvl 90+ (way way back in the day)

 

they just dont hold up to the way they used it....

 

its either people are forced to play with them till they get better weapons or people go back to them for mastery 

Edited June 7, 2015 by DiBBz

[thelastpwnr99]

If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items?

 

Maybe because no less then $100 USD was spent on then, a bit of focus would be okay.  The release of the Prisma Skana shows that DE could shed some buffing light on the Skana series, so why not mention the...other Skana?

[timerwin63]

Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons.

If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items?

 

I focused on Founders weapons at the beginning of my post because I knew that it was a widely debated topic right now and I wanted to avoid getting unhelpful responses like the first response to this thread.

[Raitlor]

Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons.

If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items?

I believe the opening statements were to try and reduce the amount of posts similar to PriZms' post. Founder pack buffs are a touchy subject and a lot of people go off without even reading the content of the post. 

 

Timerwin has actually made suggestions on improving weapons if you had actually read his post. There are 2 new MK-1 series weapons suggested  to allow for small buffs to founder and non-founder weapons in the family trees.

[Rorgal_Sina]

Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons.

If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items?

So by your logic:

 

If I make a thread about buffing Supra...

 

Why so much focus on Supra??? Unfair to others!!!

 

Right?

[Paradoxbomb]

I do like the feel of the Lato and wouldn't mind having a version that's a bit stronger than starting weapon tier, so +1.

 

 

P.S. As for the issue of whether or not the Founders versions should be buffed... I honestly don't care either way.

[timerwin63]

this man and along with the very few other F2P players that understand... needs to be gifted a special gift straight from the gods of warframe and be blessed upon with a masters founder pack!

 

Sorry, I totally misread your post. My apologies.

Edited June 7, 2015 by timerwin63

[DiBBz]

Lets see, more than half of the post is about founder weapons.

If you have a suggestion on improving weapons, by all means do it! But why focus so much on founder items?

 

if you cant honestly see that or do research then you sir are a no hope here!

 

honestly think a little... We payed money for founders packs that had weapons and a warframe included and were pretty okey at the start and till finish!

 

now the game has come a very long way and major 2.0's have happened, since then these weapons and warframe has become utterly useless to the point no one uses them anymore... they are just sitting there collecting dust!

 

Why is it that its always F2P players that are against buffing! just because yous dont want it or like it means the rest have to suffer ? witch if i may add is a pretty good proportion of the population by now want certain buffs in certain aspects of the game!

 

lets say people start suggesting that they want nerfs on some of your favourite warframe's and weapons that are hardly unbalanced in the first place! how would you react ?

 

cause if your answer is the same as mine then youd obiouvlsy want to interject and say something on why they dont need nerfed etc...

 

so now just flip it the other way round "Weapons / warframe that needs buffs because they are not close to being at a reasonable balanced state"

 

id rather like to see diversity of weapons being used in game rather than the typical (soma(P) / Boltor(P) / orthos / bo prime etc etc) than what you typically see in game as of right now!

 

 

i think why all this hate of buffing (founder prime) weapons etc comes up its a automatic red flag to dislike the idea and stomp on it till it dies from the majority witch are F2P players... now i dunno what the reason may be, simply because you want founders to suffer with weapons and a warframe that have not been buffed since very early 2013 (2+ years), or if its a hate thing because you dont own them

 

i dunno whatever the case it.... but it needs to stop cause its just toxifying the community even more!

[DrBorris]

Yes please, I have been hoping for a Mk-1 Skana and Mk-1 Lato ever since the new tutorial came out. And OP, while I am all for buffing Founders weapons to be decent, you should have known it would attract the trolls. 

[WolvenEdge]

Admittedly... I payed attention to only the melee portion of your post. :P I'm not much of a gun fan, and have already used up what interest I had in the Latos.

 

I'm rather enjoying your ideas as to making the current Skana a Mk.I weapon, as its stats reflect, and then making the proper version a bit more fleshed out. However, I would suggest that all of us who kept the original skana, just have that be changed to the Skana Mk. I, and the new Skana be considered a new weapon. That way we have the same weapon (admittedly just renamed and given a direct upgrade path) and can move to the upgrade rather than having to step back for the Mk.I version should we wish to experience the full family... or just get the mastery points, for the metagamers out there.

 

Keeping the Prisma Skana a crit-build weapon was a good idea, however having the normal Skana almost caught up with it seems a little... well, a little like the Prisma Skana isn't exactly worth it. Maybe giving it an extra three percent crit chance would help the build keep its edge over the main variety, with slightly less damage buff than you proposed?

 

I cannot speak well for the Skana Prime, as I do not have it. I also had the chance to get the founders' pack, but did not because I was just starting and did not know how big a part of my gaming life WarFrame would become. I regret. TwT I will give it a try, though I cannot vouch for my accuracy in this area.

Personal regrets aside, I'm of the mind that the Prime weapons should capitalize upon the strengths of their 'base weapon,' usually by side-grading, and enhancing their feel and gameplay rather than just being a straight damage buff. A bit of extra damage is to be expected, of course, but the weapon's strengths should be enhanced by the change, or perhaps a weakness covered. The Prisma Skana seems to almost invert the non-damage traits of the weapon (skana has higher status chance than crit, Prisma is the other way around, etc.), so I think that the Skana Prime should have a high status chance and swing speed instead of critical, that way it deals extra in bleed rather than critical damage, and has the chance to proc more often with attack speed which is arguably just as useful if not more so (ignoring armor to an extent and all that).

 

I rather like your train of thought, and look forward to any future work on other weapon families... please do scythes next? ;w;

 

Edit; clarification.

Edited June 7, 2015 by WolvenEdge

[timerwin63]

I'm rather enjoying your ideas as to making the current Skana a Mk.I weapon, as its stats reflect, and then making the proper version a bit more fleshed out. However, I would suggest that all of us who kept the original skana, just have that be changed to the Skana Mk. I, and the new Skana be considered a new weapon. That way we have the same weapon (admittedly just renamed and given a direct upgrade path) and can move to the upgrade rather than having to step back for the Mk.I version should we wish to experience the full family... or just get the mastery points, for the metagamers out there.

 

~snip~

 

Edit; clarification.

 

Thanks for your input! I'll take it into account and look at the weapon stats again tomorrow. I'll try to rework the Skana Prime a bit and put up what I come up with tomorrow afternoon.

[Mesyra]

More raging about making founder weapons buffed after the prisma skana being released? Just in spreadsheet format?

no

someone didn't read the thread.

[DiBBz]

someone didn't read the thread.

much like 70% of the community with these typs or any types of threads in general 

[K0bra]

Awesome thread but im kinda shocked that the Lato prime is on a step like the Mk1 Kunai.Thats ....unexpected.I think this thread is open eyes.

Thanks for your effords.Keep going. :)

[UrbanShade]

+1! Really good idea, im not own any prime access pack, but this will make another (not only prime) weapons more viable for higher levels (yeeees, im about my beloved Prisma Skana). So im totally agreed. Even with this suggested buff, what will be lato and skana prime? not higher, than already mid-tier weapons, that has little to no potential for endgame