Efficiency Gone Too Far?

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

If they ever release that mod, the game will be completely broken.

 

Yes because the maxed Fleeting Experience/Streamline Combo will go from 90% to 115%?

 

Not really in my opinion.

[GreyEnneract]

Yes because the maxed Fleeting Experience/Streamline Combo will go from 90% to 115%?

 

Not really in my opinion.

Efficiency caps at 75% regardless.

[Husla]

I hope Mesa is nerfed. I hate going into a public game, and then leaving because there is a Mesa in game killing absolutely everything. I shouldn't be forced to leave a game or play solo to enjoy the game. I should be able to join a random PUG, and start playing without worry of something like this, because standing there doing nothing is not very fun.

If it isn't Mesa, I can go ingame with my Saryn/Limbo/Excal/Frost. Literally all frames have potential to deal absurd of damage. Remember at the end of the day. Killing enemies is the point of the game. It's not a lets have a picnic. What's the difference between pug game and a solo game? faster kills/quicker missions.

 

Efficiency caps at 75% regardless.

Funny, how people forget that.

[(PSN)ToastyFairy01]

Efficiency caps at 75% regardless.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Efficiency caps at 75% regardless.

 

Which further re-enforces my point that it won't break the game.  Also, yes...  The only thing primed streamline allows for is to remove fleeting experience completely and have decent medium efficiency, or allow for a max blind rage build that uses up slightly less energy.

 

Not as "game breaking" as the naysayers make it out to be.  Is it a change?  yes...  but so was Primed Heated Charge, which gives an extra 75% heat damage over the regular heated charge.

 

Primed Streamline brings it up from 30% to 55%, nothing drastic.

[Leland_Gaunt]

Yes because the maxed Fleeting Experience/Streamline Combo will go from 90% to 115%?

 

Not really in my opinion.

 

No, because a maxed Primed Streamline will be able to cancel out the detriments of a maxed Blind Rage completely.

So with Fleeting Expertise, you'd get 60% efficiency (which is almost the cap) with a maxed Blind Rage.

 

That's why it's gonna break the game.

[Crackseed]

While I can empathize with the need for continual balance, I really don't see myself playing the game this way because even when I reach the upper tiers of end-game (and I understand there are certain requirements/setups per frame that are optimal) it's still going to be a combination of - what is FUN AND EFFECTIVE. If I'm not having fun, standing there pushing 1 button over and over, then why am I playing?

 

Sure, the way I play may be whatever % slower or less effective, but I don't care - sometimes it makes for more of a challenge AND provides the fun I'm looking for - then I'll keep at it. 

 

That being said - as far as Mesa goes (I like the frame quite a bit) I feel that her 4 does need a radical change. The whole "gunslinger" bit is great but I think it should be adjusted to not be 360 degree firing OR immobile. Take a look at the Lawbringer Nisha character in Borderlands The Pre-Sequel. Her action skill, Showdown, is a perfect example of what I'd like to see Mesa's Peacemaker become.

 

You have to be LOOKING in the direction you want to fire these automatic hits/crits off in, not this gun kata Equilibrium ALL THE THINGS skill it currently is. If you un-tether it so she can move and you make it that it's got to be a specific face/LoS in front of her, you still keep the killing power but you make the player have to actually use some skill/effort to mow things down. 

 

The way it is now doesn't encourage "fun" IMO - stand still and slap 4/click repeatedly for me while I pull you in energy? Really? I did a T4 Defense run with my Clan and this was the setup. GMag, Frost and Mesa - I took my Volt P in. They stood up on the defense object - I stayed in the globe (because let's face it, I'm not QUITE stacked enough to handle roaming around by myself) but I definitely didn't just sit there doing nothing. I chained out 1's and 4's, dropped my own shields for damage applications and even used some speed to zip around causing havoc. Clanmates didn't mind and it just felt more engaging then "Turret team gogo!" xD

[S7ORM]

People will care less about efficiency and more about playing when DE stops bloating up loot tables and gets rid of low drop rates.

 

It's a symptom of a problem they created and up to this point in time refused to fix.

I don't think it's specifically a symptom. Players will continue to do it even if the farming and rng are turned down, because it's still the most efficient way to farm -- you'll just end up getting more per run if they tone down,.

They're intertwined -- you have to fix both together, not one without the other.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

No, because a maxed Primed Streamline will be able to cancel out the detriments of a maxed Blind Rage completely.

So with Fleeting Expertise, you'd get 60% efficiency (which is almost the cap) with a maxed Blind Rage.

 

That's why it's gonna break the game.

 

So someone is going to be able to use max strength powers a few more times?  I still don't see how it's going to "break" the game.  What will be broken?

 

Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post it's really up to players not to steamroll content by slapping too much of anything on to their gear and eliminating all challenge.  People will still do so, or choose not to entirely.

 

My example of Primed Heated Charge above is a case of a really powerful mod being released, yet it hasn't broken the game at all.  Personally it has freed up a "damage" slot for me and allowed me to use other mods like ammo mutations, reload, silencing, etc.

 

Not everyone is going to build to according to the meta.

[Sapphic-Sandra]

I always watch Netflix while I'm farming. Sometimes this game can be a real bore...I mean chore...I mean...yeah. :/

[Latronico]

Im typing this... as my left index finger is playing warframe...

I'm not even looking at my other screen!

 

This thought came to me as a joke one farm session... as I asked my fellow factory workers

"Ever think that efficiency has been taken too far?"

4 heavily specialized rfames coming together to form whats like a factory 

The factory is pretty clean cut too

I bet you could identify who the nekro and mesa was easily

 

4 frames, 4 buttons, 4 fingers... literally playing the game, geezus I never thought that things would become this dam efficient. Maybe its been this way for awhile now but hey, I just got back and this is real amusing.

 

Back in the day... I was atleast still using wasd and jump lol!

 

Think it has been taken too far? a mistake? an intention? just plain inevitable?

 

Welcome to Warframe, where people think that 'play the game' means press one button eating chips. Hi Mesa. 

[Kontrollo]

You can be for it, you can be against it, but there's no denying what this ultimately is:

 

[GreyEnneract]

Even Primed Streamline with Fleeting can't fully cancel out Blind Rage and hit cap. It comes close, but still doesn't reach the cap.

Edited June 10, 2015 by GreyEnneract

[Suthurn]

Hey guys, lets make a shooting game where the players have special powers and spend all their time trying to get as powerful as possible. Then we will take their abilities and power away from and call it challenge!

 

[Altey]

Mesa isn't the problem.Gmag is the problem, without her mesas won't be able to supply yourself so easily.

[BBOTAA]

It's really up to the players, and the objectives they are playing for. It isn't  like you get this efficiency setup, every time you go to play.If it isn't arranged and players don't have the same goal.

[Grom-84]

I hope Mesa is nerfed. I hate going into a public game, and then leaving because there is a Mesa in game killing absolutely everything. I shouldn't be forced to leave a game or play solo to enjoy the game. I should be able to join a random PUG, and start playing without worry of something like this, because standing there doing nothing is not very fun.

Nobody forcing you to join other's games i can say, play solo testify your might and kill everything yourself)

[SweetJackal]

Bashing the frames won't fix Draco.  Bashing Draco won't fix Draco.  There will always be a Draco and always be a Trinity+Excal/Mesa+G.Mag team working it.  The problem isn't even the synergy between the frames or how players work together.

 

The behavior rises from players needing a massive amount of certain items while those items are normally acquired at a crawl.  Each demands a time commitment and once you start to stack them up it becomes staggering.  "Draco" exists because it chips away at that time commitment, it's a means of what is lucrative payouts compared to other means with the downside of it being a factory line, spamming abilities till it is boring.  Rushing happens because some items are only end of mission rewards and those rewards have a heavy hand of RNG, large loot tables and low drop rates.

 

Solar Map 3.0 will try to fix it but no matter what they do there will always be another "Draco" on the map.  Just their changes will change the type of enemies you are fighting, what you are earning and the like.  It will make it a different Draco and change it regularly but there will always be a Draco.

 

So, how do you kill the Draco Farm?  Provide areas of the game that are designed to be more lucrative while being heavily engaging to the players.  Make it a commitment to get to those nodes, have it demand more from the players (by being creative, there is more to a challenge then just more enemies with higher numbers) and have those nodes cycle out once exhausted.  Give players the option of "Easy, boring with good rewards" and "Harder, demanding with greater rewards" and you might be surprised had how many will step out of Draco Mode to face the challenge.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Bashing the frames won't fix Draco.  Bashing Draco won't fix Draco.  There will always be a Draco and always be a Trinity+Excal/Mesa+G.Mag team working it.  The problem isn't even the synergy between the frames or how players work together.

 

The behavior rises from players needing a massive amount of certain items while those items are normally acquired at a crawl.  Each demands a time commitment and once you start to stack them up it becomes staggering.  "Draco" exists because it chips away at that time commitment, it's a means of what is lucrative payouts compared to other means with the downside of it being a factory line, spamming abilities till it is boring.  Rushing happens because some items are only end of mission rewards and those rewards have a heavy hand of RNG, large loot tables and low drop rates.

 

Solar Map 3.0 will try to fix it but no matter what they do there will always be another "Draco" on the map.  Just their changes will change the type of enemies you are fighting, what you are earning and the like.  It will make it a different Draco and change it regularly but there will always be a Draco.

 

So, how do you kill the Draco Farm?  Provide areas of the game that are designed to be more lucrative while being heavily engaging to the players.  Make it a commitment to get to those nodes, have it demand more from the players (by being creative, there is more to a challenge then just more enemies with higher numbers) and have those nodes cycle out once exhausted.  Give players the option of "Easy, boring with good rewards" and "Harder, demanding with greater rewards" and you might be surprised had how many will step out of Draco Mode to face the challenge.

Precisely!!! :)