FelisImpurrator Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hm. Interesting thing is that Excal's new 4 is a good way to get people into using interesting 4 abilities that require extensive player control. Now if only people would recognize Mag's potential to be something other than "press 1 to loot"... Volt is definitely solid, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 A powerful Warframe is still useless to newbies. They don't have the best mods available. I started with a weakly modded Loki. Guess what? Decoy did work nonetheless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon_Slayer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) I started with a weakly modded Loki. Guess what? Decoy did work nonetheless! useless=/=not working Also, how often did you have to recast invisibility? How much did you have to spam disarm? How many times could you cast your abilities over and over before running of energy? Edited June 16, 2015 by Prometheium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) useless=/=not working If one stays where he is supposed to play according to his mods and levels, nothing is useless. The only thing I did quite some time before I was really up to it was farming the Brakk (did that with Valkyr and a yet underpowered Phage), but it paid off big time. Edited June 16, 2015 by RedEyedRaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon_Slayer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) If one stays where he is supposed to play according to his mods and levels, nothing is useless. useless=/=not working Also, how often did you have to recast invisibility? How much did you have to spam disarm? How many times could you cast your abilities over and over before running of energy? Infact, do you have proof that you played a starter frame with barely any mods equipped, at all battles in Warframe? Edited June 16, 2015 by Prometheium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Infact, do you have proof that you played a starter frame with barely any mods equipped, at all battles in Warframe? I don't *have* to prove that because I didn't even claim anything of what you stated. What exactly is it you're trying to make out of this discussion anyways? I said I started with Loki and of course had underpowered mods back then. I never claimed I used Loki all the way while progressing through the starmap. I did already imply that I relied on DECOY while using him, which proved to be the most life-saving at the time. I ranked through Mastery and got better mods/rankups as well as new weapons/warframes rather quickly anyways and spent a lot of my PA-plat for slots. Edited June 16, 2015 by RedEyedRaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon_Slayer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) I don't *have* to prove that because I didn't even claim anything of what you stated. What exactly is it you're trying to make out of this discussion anyways? I said I started with Loki and of course had underpowered mods back then. I never claimed I used Loki all the way while progressing through the starmap. I did already imply that I relied on DECOY while using him, which proved to be the most life-saving at the time. I ranked through Mastery and got better mods/rankups as well as new weapons/warframes rather quickly anyways and spent a lot of my PA-plat for slots. I couldn't care any less about how you personally played Loki. Point was that even a powerful frame can be ineffective to newer players via lack of good mods, and experience. Edited June 16, 2015 by Prometheium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I couldn't care any less about how you personally played Loki. Point was that even a powerful frame can be ineffective to newer players via lack of good mods, and experience. MY POINT is that unless one ventures into higher level content too early, balance between enemies and "weaker" warframes/weapons/mods is just fine. That's what I was saying in the first place, and you missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon_Slayer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 MY POINT is that unless one ventures into higher level content too early, balance between enemies and "weaker" warframes/weapons/mods is just fine. That's what I was saying in the first place, and you missed it. Are points are paralleled, haven't you noticed that? I didn't miss anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Are points are paralleled, haven't you noticed that? I didn't miss anything. So be it, but it's still de-railing the thread. I suggest we stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon_Slayer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) So be it, but it's still de-railing the thread. I suggest we stop it. Very well, despite you still not understanding that useless doesn't necessarily mean not working. It's for you to think about. Edited June 16, 2015 by Prometheium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Very well, despite you still not understanding And that formulation is gonna help make me willing to understand. Because dis-respect of course makes people respect your opinion the more. Rude behaviour doesn't make your opinion more credible, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon_Slayer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) And that formulation is gonna help make me willing to understand. Because dis-respect of course makes people respect your opinion the more. Rude behaviour doesn't make your opinion more credible, right. Don't forget who disrespected who (aka Primed Flow = Overkill?) . If you throw a punch, expect to get one in return, but don't back off and say I was the first to pull the punch. I'm quite sure you can figure out yourself why useless =/= not working. Edited June 16, 2015 by Prometheium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Don't forget who disrespected who (aka Primed Flow = Overkill?) Why? And how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon_Slayer Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Why? And how? That's for another thread or pm to be made. Don't de-rail this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS- Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Dunno, but considering you get his parts on Venus, Rhino kinda *feels* like an unofficial fourth starter-frame. And even then you can farm parts for Valkyr, Ash, Mag and Saryn (some very powerful frames) a lot quicker than parts from Excalibur (unless someone taxies the new player to Pluto). tbh though, I remember buying Excalibur for plat because he's so damn cheap (considering the extra-Slot and potato). Yes, that's my thinking too. Actually it fits the whole starter frame formula well. I mean usually in all sorts of video games there are 3,4, or 5 classes to start from. They have themes like, Caster, Agility, Tank, Ultility, Damage, etc. and sure Warframe is better in that our Warframes have 4 abilities, rather than the 1 or 2 that most other action games do. That's why I thought of Rhino as a starter frame. (I'm not writing this to offend Rhino players at all, he's an awesome frame to me and I do enjoy using him and Rhino Prime quite a bit.) Rhino also scales well with the right mods. Unmodded Rhino does well in early content too. Edited June 16, 2015 by sushidubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedRaven Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes, I that's my thinking too. Actually it fits the whole starter frame formula well. I mean usually in all sorts of video games there are 3,4, or 5 classes to start from. They usually have themes like, Caster, Agility, Tank, Ultility, Damage, etc. and sure Warframe is better than that in that our Warframes have 4 abilities, rather than the 1 or 2 that most other action games do. That's why I thought of Rhino as a starter frame. (I'm not writing this to offend Rhino players at all, he's an awesome frame to me and I do enjoy using him and Rhino Prime quite a bit.) Rhino also scales well with the right mods. Unmodded Rhino does well in early content too. It's really hard to put warframes into categories like that. The selection of frames we have for new players seems to favor the poster-boy (I'm sure Excalibur will always be a starter because of that) and shining examples of well-balanced warframes that stay useful throughout the game. Nevertheless, I'm absolutely sure the Excalibur-rework will have no effect on him being available rightaway if people want him, but his popularity will see a new Peak. I can't wait to pull him out of my armory for a reason again :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoIaris Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The poster boy will stay a starter, but i had an idea a while back where they would release a mk-1 version frame as starters, with slightly less stats but nothing majorly impacting allowing the starters to buffed as neccessary and keeping the game "challenging" for new players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangelzz Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) yeah his states are base health, shield etc wise but his abilities well lol those will be top notch after the rework tomarrow, of course I've been using Excalibur since the begining of closed beta so for me personally using him through the good and bad times. I think he should stay the poster boy of Warframe I mean he is kind of like the hero of a fairy tale except he is not the most powerful but he certianly is not weak either. And even now his abilities are still balanced, Slash Dash is now a multi enemy cone attack that can also be aimed and it will launch you into the air, radial javlien well no one knows how they changed it yet, his ultimate turns him into a lean mean killing machine, with close and ranged capbilities and his radial blind is mobile now and automatical makes enemies vulnerable to finisher attacks which for excalibur he has his own special finisher attack animations unquie to him alone. So overall he is still balanced he can do everything he could do before just better now. I've been using him since the very begining and now I shall use him to the very end to more effectively. Edited June 17, 2015 by Archangelzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GitDS Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The poster boy will stay a starter, but i had an idea a while back where they would release a mk-1 version frame as starters, with slightly less stats but nothing majorly impacting allowing the starters to buffed as neccessary and keeping the game "challenging" for new players I feel that the game is challenging for new players and doesn't need this to make it more so. Limited mods and knowledge already make things difficult and overwhelming enough. Knowledge gaps can be filled in using the wiki and forums, but the amount of information in both contribute to the game feeling overwhelming. This is speaking from personal experience. more on topic, I think the rework won't change the new player experience much. Better frame abilities don't make too much of a difference when you're working with only the basic mods, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)meyerclan Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Excalibur is the poster boy for Warframe. Leave him as a starter frame. Let's wow the new player from the get go. =============/) Sword dash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (This topic was originally merged into the Excal Re-Work megathread, where it didn't belong. [DE]Danielle has reviewed the intent of this thread and is allowing me to repost the discussion here.) My original post is here: I'm really happy about the Excalibur Re-Work though I will miss super jump, etc. like many of you who've played him for the past couple years in his current form. It seems to me that he will be more powerful (beyond simply better) with the re-work. I know he's our poster-boy frame, but do you guys still feel that he should be one of the starting Warframes? If not Excalibur who then? Please discuss. =) For those who replied earlier, apologies. Please discuss. I'd love to hear what you all think and I think it's a good discussion to have. Excalibur is changing for the better.. but does that mean the state at witch his play-style is at right now will be changed to something else ? no! Excalibur is and will always be an average all round frame to play... and his new re-work does exactly that. just better for the current state at witch the game is in right now! Nah, he is too available even now. He needs to swap places with Excalibur as in which bosses drop them. Imo, half of the frames need new drop locations. Mag, Excalibur and Volt need to be on first 3 planets, so new players can easily switch frame if they dont like their choice. agreed.. rhino is becoming meh now compared to before when it was not as commonly seen around! i say this change needs to happen! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGs_Knackie Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Agreed, it would be good to remove Excal as starter which will be very powerful with the rework and replace him by Rhino. Excal would be lootable on Pluto as we want right now. Edited June 17, 2015 by CGs_Knackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSING Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I would agree that Rhino teaches bad habits. Not trolling habits, but it gets players used to a feel of invincibility in early content. Then, either when they try different warframes or go into higher content, their invincibility will fail them and they will get frustrated. If you move him to Pluto or even a mid level planet like say Phobos then I think people will not get addicted to iron skin and perhaps instead value his other abilities more, especially roar. Excalibur is fine as a starter, even if not especially after the rework. I think the three starters are quite balanced as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr3vi3R Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Personally my only concern about Ex is the fact that the most known Survivalist Frames have broken survival abilities and he will still only be able to blind, and I don't think that would mantain him viable anywhere same as now, I don't see where you see it broken. Anyway, he's the simbol of the game, he will still be a starter frame if not THE starter frame. Edited June 17, 2015 by Gr3vi3R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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