What Are Your Guys Thoughts On Making This Game Challenging?

[Kato-san]

I thought about it, and constantly just increasing HP/DPS will not work out too well for all warframes.

Mainly because abilities/weapons become useless because of the DPS vs enemy super increased HP, and enemy will eventually become a bullet sponge and use up all ammo and energy if HP gets ridiculously high, and if you keep scaling DPS only tanks will be the most viable choice, like Rhino and trinity.

 

So what I think needs to be done is add more challenging mechanics to the game that can be avoided with enough skill and awareness of position and what is going on around you ect.

Ancient Disruptors are a good example of a mechanic you want to avoid at all costs as you get your shield and energy drained down to 0. Adding more elements like this to a game where you add more special attacks that need to be avoided and dodged may be the best way to increase difficulty.  Increase dps/HP is ok to an extent, but there is a limit to how far you can go till it gets ridiculous.  Even increasing how long you get stunned for some abilities that knock you down and stuff can be good as well.

 

What do you guys think an increase in difficulty should be like what would you like it to be more like for more of a challenge.

Edited May 21, 2013 by MindlessWar

[NoelleAllogene]

- More better stealth systems. and rewarding. Like bonus 2x exp or something.

just because in this room a grineer fire his gun once, whole base gets alerted and their awareness goes 10x higher all the time(well realistically it is, but come on). Or more useful objects for stealth.

 

- more tactical boss. almost every boss is a bullet sponge. The Jackal is a good start for tactical boss fight.

 

- using enemy as a bullet shield. Like in Assassin's Creed 3. Or picks up objects and use it as bullet shield until it gets destroyed. Interactive object usage.

 

- this is nor challenge, but an improvement, better waypoint system. 

[neKroMancer]

As I have been posting several times before, enemies that can counter our frames' powers.

- Detector unit: detect cloaked frame/sentinel. Nullify smokescreen/invisible/shade effect.

- Anti-armor unit: decrease or end effect of iron skin.

- shielded unit: immune to damaging AOE powers, vulnerable to CC power.

- Pull unit: similar to Golem, pull target into his position and briefly stun the target. Counter against snowglobe.

- Artillery unit: high-powered, fast moving projectile shooting unit. The bombardier is too slow.

- Cloaked unit: moving unseen, unheard toward the target and viciously melee him. Have some sort of sound/visual cue when enter player's proximity.

- Spawner unit: regularly spawn smaller unit. Immobile.

- Anti-melee unit: must be damaged with range weapon to destroy outer shell/armor in order to kill. Massive DR against melee and immune to stun/knockdown effect when armored.

- Anti-range unit: can use block/parry to nullify range weapon, fast movement speed, will try to get into melee range.

Something like that will make the game more challenging. Big investment though.

[deathscion]

True to a point. I think the idea of the higher lvl of difficulty is to force people to utilize a good team makeup. I.E. actually needing a tank and trinity to survive and utilizing ember for infested and volt/vauban for corpus. Granted you pretty much have to have a premade group for things like that to work. which is one of the reasons in my opinion update 8 focuses pretty hard on clans IMO. They would also have to make stealth an actually viable part of the game or frames like banshee, Loki, and Ash to survive as viable frames. Some of the frames are questionable as part of a high level group makeup anyway, which sucks because every frame needs a role other than #4 spamming and that really doesn't scale with the high level maps. 

 

As it is right now a lot of the higher level missions encourage rushing so people don't run into the issues of running out of energy and ammo. It will only get worse with the update 8 new areas if nothing changes.

[BlueQuail]

Nerf the hp/shield energy per level buffs.

[Nenesse]

There is a very easy answer to "what makes enemies dangerous besides massive damage and hp?"

This game would be much more difficult if higher level areas were full of horrible nasty stuff like rail gun moas. How about enemies that are hugely unfair, like the special infected in L4D that you cannot defeat at all? Or maybe some nasty events like having to hunt down an enemy for a key?

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Things like the disruptor ancients are not "hard" because it's a challenge but simply because of the BS of their ability combined with their range and attack speed so if one comes up behind you, it can be a run ender. Where as if one comes from the front it usually poses no problem.

 

The number one thing this game needs is better AI. As it is most of the AI just swarms, rushes and spams you. That's not hard and anyone with any sort of AOE can clear them, and the answer shouldn't be to nerf the AOE into oblivion but fix the awfully designed enemies. Not add more in.

[AtikLYar]

Things like the disruptor ancients are not "hard" because it's a challenge but simply because of the BS of their ability combined with their range and attack speed so if one comes up behind you, it can be a run ender. Where as if one comes from the front it usually poses no problem.

 

The number one thing this game needs is better AI. As it is most of the AI just swarms, rushes and spams you. That's not hard and anyone with any sort of AOE can clear them, and the answer shouldn't be to nerf the AOE into oblivion but fix the awfully designed enemies. Not add more in.

This is what I was thinking when you mentioned the Disrupters. The way their abilities work is, more than anything, one of the mechanics I despise in games; just absurdly unfair things that feel like I'm rolling the dice.

 

For a good example of something that makes the game hard, take a look at Stalker.

 

He's powerful, he's durable, and he makes you pay attention to what he's doing. You really can't just rush in with pure firepower and hope to down him before he downs you. You have to dodge his charges, keep up with his melee game, watch his abilities, and wait for openings.

 

Simply put, he's HARD, but not in a rediculous damage sponge "shoot me until I fall over" kind of way.

 

There are some bosses that definately come close. Jackal is probably the best example.

[Blatantfool]

Smarter enemy mixtures. Set the enemy factions up with lot of variations and types of enemies with different skills they put to use.

 

 That way you can create a greater variety of situations a player can find themselves in.

 

 

 I also think the Elite enemies need work. We need a few more and they could still use some fleshing out.

[Sikab]

I thought about it, and constantly just increasing HP/DPS will not work out too well for all warframes.

Mainly because abilities/weapons become useless because of the DPS vs enemy super increased HP, and enemy will eventually become a bullet sponge and use up all ammo and energy if HP gets ridiculously high, and if you keep scaling DPS only tanks will be the most viable choice, like Rhino and trinity.

 

So what I think needs to be done is add more challenging mechanics to the game that can be avoided with enough skill and awareness of position and what is going on around you ect.

Ancient Disruptors are a good example of a mechanic you want to avoid at all costs as you get your shield and energy drained down to 0. Adding more elements like this to a game where you add more special attacks that need to be avoided and dodged may be the best way to increase difficulty.  Increase dps/HP is ok to an extent, but there is a limit to how far you can go till it gets ridiculous.  Even increasing how long you get stunned for some abilities that knock you down and stuff can be good as well.

 

What do you guys think an increase in difficulty should be like what would you like it to be more like for more of a challenge.

Community is obviously not ready for any challenge. Just look at the Rhino dilemma now that Iron Skin has a bug which doesn't makes him immune to knockdowns...

[Ishutani]

What I'd like to see is a nerf to the damage output and accuracy of regular non-special enemies: crewmen, regular grineers, etc. The special/elite enemies should feel more special and powerful in comparison to the grunts

 

And buff to all special enemies: ballistas, bombards, napalms, heavies, fusion moas, snipers, etc.

 

All special enemies should have tactics that one needs to employ in order to effectively take them down

 

example of grineer specials:

- heavy gunners should become a special enemy that deters blind charging with very high damage output but a long reload time once they run out of ammo.

- napalms should use flamethrowers and become a special enemy that deters usage of melee similiar to toxic ancients, but not completely deny it as fire wouldnt ignore shields.

 

Specials should have a mechanic that would deter or heavily restrain the usage of a certain tactic and forces the player to counter them with another tactic.

 

Well in general, more singular lethal but avoidable attacks and less swarming tactics (except for infested)

[Afroman12]

It's already implemented. This glitched in while the person was loading an Alert.

 

 

It just needs work on how it should exactly work with the UI.

Edited May 21, 2013 by BakaGamer

[Kato-san]

It's already implemented. This glitched in while the person was loading an Alert.

 

It just needs work on how it should exactly work with the UI.

 

Mainly talking about how difficulty can be increased by more then simply increasing numbers.  Increased numbers will work, but only to an extent.

[Inez]

If they make it too much harder, where it requires potatoed gear people are gonna cry pay2win. If they make it require special team set-ups, you lose the ability to solo.

Not saying I disagree with previous posters, but DE has a lot to consider.

[Aretak]

More variety of units. Stats is cheap, boring and would drive things imbalanced as Inez pointed out. That said no more gimmicks like stun locking or knockdowns as we already have those.

[moriginal]

Nerf evetything

[MusicGamer]

Nerf evetything

I sincerely hope to god you're joking.  Nerfing everything would bring so much rage from the majority of the playerbase...

[DiBBz]

Overall the game is Amazing and yet very hard , i see that they want to push towards teamwork to be more effective but they need to fix layout of troop spawns and shield/HP of enimie units when you a solo'ing etc etc

 

and whn a buddy joins you in a private match the difficuilty becomes more harder and harder as each person joins

 

WHAT I FEEL CAN BE MORE OF A BENEFIT IN GAME

 

1.-As we all know stealth is somewhat enjoyable hell i like to stealth every single mission i start however single stealth kills in a way are to dam long and unless you get them out of complete sigh of the surrounding enemie units you will be caught and the alarm goes off , if lets see enimies like most of the grineer are they sometimes do a single file line with like 3 enemie's , if you sneak up behind the enemie at the back of the line of 3 i saw there could be a chain kill were you kill the guy at the back and then move onto the next game and then to the next guy with a simple stealth chain kill...

 

2.-for stealth missions (again) there should be more steathy ways to apporch objectives threw vents or some secret route , if you are more of a lay low kinda of player then this route will be perfect for you cause theys vents or secret ways will take you to more secret rooms etc etc and may even discover lore , OR maybe it could be put to more useful ways such as getting past a RED LOCKED door you fine a access vent or (whatever) may be used as a secret passiage only to find behind that RED door there is something you can interact with to get either lore or be of more hellp to you

 

Lets take corpus for example :- this panel your about to interact with controlls all the (OR) all the nreaby turrets , when you reconfig the turrets or lassers (prehaps) when you run into a room full of gaurds when ever they pass or when ever you pass the motion sensor the turrets will be alerted and will fight by your side

 

3.-More free-running puzzles type deals , were you can only progress if you can wall run up here & here & jump here etc etc etc , now off course this will be for high lvl missions considering most noobs no nothing of wall running

[Archistopheles]

I can't carry 3 new players through Xini wave 10, or solo Outer Terminus without Frost so I still find challenge in this game.

[TheSuperTaco]

i know a challenge: try to solo lech kril meleeing him with a half eaten burrito from a mile away while he sprays at you with his gorgon xD

 

seriously though try that challenge with some ankyros

[Shinobi_no_Kami]

better, and smarter AI, that goes into tactical position, go cover, dodge, hide and ambush etc etc. instead of every enemy swarming towards you. I think that should give a more challenging fights.

[Sixty5]

How about light enemies that hit hard and are immune to powers? 

 

Also how about Sync-Kills? (lol jokes)

[Esperiae]

More Gimmicks and Mechanic based missions. and some of those "gtfo before the place comes crashing down" missions.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

How about light enemies that hit hard and are immune to powers? 

 

Also how about Sync-Kills? (lol jokes)

I was actually thinking about something like that. A sort of "disruptor drone" that could create a field where tenno powers wouldn't work. Like iron skin and link, or even your AOE ultimate abilities.

[Hekatonkheire]

I think timed missions. 

 

But not with "Get out in X time before cliche explosion" with a big red clock in your face.

 

Just imagine, a rescue mission, you have to go and get a hostage who despite being captured has a gun on their person that they never use... anyway, on the way, infested spawn, but the longer you take the quicker they respawn until you get swamped. So it's guaranteed death if you muck about. 

Also you could make the levels increase with each mob, but in that case, maybe hostage isn't the best idea, that would be too difficult with them dying. But who knows. Just an idea.