The Yes To Wall-Latching Thread!

[Eldnacpeek]

I honestly don't like the idea of it. I say no.

[Omnimorph]

Yes. 

 

Ideally I'd like to see a combination of the version of 2.0 they showed before and this version.  Both have their merits. 

 

The problem is probably trying to corral a complex movement system onto stupid game controllers - as usual, the hilariously inaptly-named "game controller" drags everything down to its remedial level.

[DraccoDoom]

It's dumb to argue that wall latching shouldn't exist because it'll slow down the gameplay. That's the point of it. Also, who said that speed runners are gonna have to use wall latch? Here's a thought: If you don't want to stop moving, DON'T WALL LATCH.

For the rest of us stealthy, tactical, engaged players, we very much welcome the wall latching mechanic. It provides another layer of depth to combat, and since when is that a bad thing?

^ This, yes to wall latching.

[Hypernaut1]

Yes.

Ideally I'd like to see a combination of the version of 2.0 they showed before and this version. Both have their merits.

The problem is probably trying to corral a complex movement system onto stupid game controllers - as usual, the hilariously inaptly-named "game controller" drags everything down to its remedial level.

Ummm, 99% of games made for controller have much better parkour and smoother more accurate movement for 3rd person. If anything it's the m&k controls that is holding it back.

Ninja gaiden from 10 years ago, made for a controller, is 10x more flexible, fluid and and more precise than this.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Caine2112]

I'm chiming in with my fellow posters above that want wall latching to happen.  The new ability to hang overhead of unsuspecting enemies, plan attacks, and snipe from an entirely new position appeals to the the stealth player in me.  Hell, you could even use it to avoid enemies altogether were the situation warranted.

 

Also, who doesn't want to do death from above melee attacks to an enemy walking underneath you?  Ummm, yes please!

 

Now, what I wanna know is, will Rescue targets wall latch with you?

[ROSING]

Pls.

DE has already made progress on it.

Why wouldn't we want it.

But let us keep wallrunning though...

[-FV-Wsocks]

yes

[Jinryusai]

 

^

 

 

Edited June 27, 2015 by Jinryusai

[Jinryusai]

"Yes, let me cling to this wall without using my brain!"

 

*Immediately gets shot to death

 

"Nevermind"

[Jinryusai]

Stealthy?

Tactical?

Engaged?

Depth to combat?

 

You are playing the wrong game, or playing warframe the wrong way.

 

Warframe is about holding down LMB with a soma prime and killing every enemy in a single shot, or, better yet, sitting on top of a box with your team, letting a "gunslinger" aimbot kill everything in a 9001 mile radius as soon as an enemy spawns. Or sitting inside sewers, letting macros do the dirty work for hours on end.

 

"stealthy, tactical, and engaged" is a myth.

 

I don't totally care about wall hopping if directional air melee is going to stay.

Sounds like you're playing Halo or some other game...

 

This is what happens when you have a crappy system, players turn  what could have been a ninja game, into a generic crappy shooter.

 

Sitting on top of a box turns you into a turret...

[Jinryusai]

Keep Latching, Keep Wall running (only on Flat surfaces), Allow "bunny Hops" on everything. 

An idea solution would be to combine latching and wall running allowing you to move in any direction you want...

[VoidNomade]

If i look at the teasers and the older WIP material, i don´t understand why wallrunning is disabled.

 

In certain situations horizontal and vertically wallrunning just makes way more sense. It´s looks and plays more fluidly.

 

I´m sure there would been have a way to enable both. Wallrunning and hopping.

 

 

Other parkour games have both worlds. I don´t understand why WF can´t have it.

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

keep wall running,but on everything else YES!

[Omnimorph]

Ummm, 99% of games made for controller have much better parkour and smoother more accurate movement for 3rd person. If anything it's the m&k controls that is holding it back.

Ninja gaiden from 10 years ago, made for a controller, is 10x more flexible, fluid and and more precise than this.

 

I think that's because the environment design is different - the mini-puzzles or mini-games related specially to the movement are a core part of the gameplay, i.e. it's more "on rails", more of a sort of set path (not saying it's totally that, but it's much more so than this game).  It's obviously going to be relatively much easier to design something around that that feels fluid, even for clunky-! "controllers" because you can have relatively large chunks of the environment contextually "grabbing" whatever the player is doing and smoothing it.

 

The environment of this game is a shooter environment with totally free roaming, the puzzle/minigame element is necessarily secondary, so the environment can't be specially designed to be "controller"-friendly - if it were, there would be all sorts of stupid things happening accidentally due to misinterpretation by the environment of whatever random S#&$ the player is trying to do.  This is the problem they've been trying to solve, and it's purely on the controller side, in that "controllers" are completely clunky tools to have for a shooter.  That's not to say you can't get good at it, some people very good, but the baseline is so much lower (which is why they will never, ever, EVER have a competitive multiplayer game in which both PC players and "controller" users are on the same server - Sony tried it once and it was an embarrassing disaster).

Edited June 27, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Jinryusai]

I think that's because the environment design is different - the mini-puzzles or mini-games related specially to the movement are a core part of the gameplay, i.e. it's more "on rails", more of a sort of set path (not saying it's totally that, but it's much more so than this game).  It's obviously going to be relatively much easier to design something around that that feels fluid, even for clunky-! "controllers" because you can have relatively large chunks of the environment contextually "grabbing" whatever the player is doing and smoothing it.

 

The environment of this game is a shooter environment with totally free roaming, the puzzle/minigame element is necessarily secondary, so the environment can't be specially designed to be "controller"-friendly - if it were, there would be all sorts of stupid things happening accidentally due to misinterpretation by the environment of whatever random S#&$ the player is trying to do.  This is the problem they've been trying to solve, and it's purely on the controller side, in that "controllers" are completely clunky tools to have for a shooter.  That's not to say you can't get good at it, some people very good, but the baseline is so much lower (which is why they will never, ever, EVER have a competitive multiplayer game in which both PC players and "controller" users are on the same server - Sony tried it once and it was an embarrassing disaster).

Or the other way around, Key/Mouse his holding gamepads back for parkour.

 

Somethings are better with gamepads. Parkour is one of them.

 

You are already clinging to objects and walls w/o trying...

[Omnimorph]

Or the other way around, Key/Mouse his holding gamepads back for parkour.

 

Somethings are better with gamepads. Parkour is one of them.

 

You are already clinging to objects and walls w/o trying...

 

The problem is analogous to the problem of not being able to aim very well with a "controller", so you have to have some kind of auto-aim function, only in this case you're "aiming" at the environment. 

 

In a game that's based on some kind of movement puzzle or mini-game where your progress through the environment is a structured part of the gameplay, it's easy to have relatively blunt hooks in the environment (analogous to auto-aim), so that the movement feels slick and smooth with a "controller".

 

IOW it's just an accidental artifact of the types of games that have been made with parkour for "controllers", that it's been well-implemented.  It's an artifact of the fact that the player's options are more limited, there's more of an "on rails" path for them to move along, so the environment can be more blocked out.

 

But you can't have those kind of big hooks in a free roaming shooter game, because people would be forever doing some stupid parkour thing accidentally when intending to do some other random thing.

 

You could easily cope with the combination of parkour and shooter action with m/k, because with a m/k you have a higher baseline of manual precision for both, so the environmental hooks could be relatively refined (just like you don't need auto-aim with an m/k).

 

But because this game has to compromise between the shooter aspect and the parkour aspect for "controllers", you can't have that, DE have to fine tune the environment so that it's good enough; but it will never be as good as in a game dedicated to movement puzzles as an intrinsic part of the gameplay.

 

IOW the problem is solely on the "controller" side - the difficulty DE have is in compromising between the free-roaming shooter aspect, and the necessity to have some hooks in the environment big enough for parkour to be workable with the low baseline of manual precision you have with a "controller", but keep the hooks small enough so that there's less chance of "accidental parkour" from the vastly larger number of possible random things a player can do in a free-roaming shooter context.

 

In that context, m/k looks after itself - it just has to work with whatever limitations the "controller" has imposed.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Hypernaut1]

The problem is analogous to the problem of not being able to aim very well with a "controller", so you have to have some kind of auto-aim function, only in this case you're "aiming" at the environment.

In a game that's based on some kind of movement puzzle or mini-game where your progress through the environment is a structured part of the gameplay, it's easy to have relatively blunt hooks in the environment (analogous to auto-aim), so that the movement feels slick and smooth with a "controller".

IOW it's just an accidental artifact of the types of games that have been made with parkour for "controllers", that it's been well-implemented. It's an artifact of the fact that the player's options are more limited, there's more of an "on rails" path for them to move along, so the environment can be more blocked out.

But you can't have those kind of big hooks in a free roaming shooter game, because people would be forever doing some stupid parkour thing accidentally when intending to do some other random thing.

You could easily cope with the combination of parkour and shooter action with m/k, because with a m/k you have a higher baseline of manual precision for both, so the environmental hooks could be relatively refined (just like you don't need auto-aim with an m/k).

But because this game has to compromise between the shooter aspect and the parkour aspect for "controllers", you can't have that, DE have to fine tune the environment so that it's good enough; but it will never be as good as in a game dedicated to movement puzzles as an intrinsic part of the gameplay.

IOW the problem is solely on the "controller" side - the difficulty DE have is in compromising between the free-roaming shooter aspect, and the necessity to have some hooks in the environment big enough for parkour to be workable with the low baseline of manual precision you have with a "controller", but keep the hooks small enough so that there's less chance of "accidental parkour" from the vastly larger number of possible random things a player can do in a free-roaming shooter context.

In that context, m/k looks after itself - it just has to work with whatever limitations the "controller" has imposed.

You just pulled all of that out of your rear.

"Environmental hooks"? What in the world are you talking about?

Wf does not have any precision parkour. Most action games don't rely on "auto aim" for the environment. Not even mario64, which had parkour about as good as we have now almost 20 years ago. WF is very clunky and awkward compared to console action games. WF is not primarily a precision shooter like say Arma 3. It's an action game, held back by trying to make it play like a m&k shooter.

The parkour, the melee..It's all clunky because it's shoehorned into a wsad style point and click shooter.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Jinryusai]

The problem is analogous to the problem of not being able to aim very well with a "controller", so you have to have some kind of auto-aim function, only in this case you're "aiming" at the environment. 

 

In a game that's based on some kind of movement puzzle or mini-game where your progress through the environment is a structured part of the gameplay, it's easy to have relatively blunt hooks in the environment (analogous to auto-aim), so that the movement feels slick and smooth with a "controller".

 

IOW it's just an accidental artifact of the types of games that have been made with parkour for "controllers", that it's been well-implemented.  It's an artifact of the fact that the player's options are more limited, there's more of an "on rails" path for them to move along, so the environment can be more blocked out.

 

But you can't have those kind of big hooks in a free roaming shooter game, because people would be forever doing some stupid parkour thing accidentally when intending to do some other random thing.

 

You could easily cope with the combination of parkour and shooter action with m/k, because with a m/k you have a higher baseline of manual precision for both, so the environmental hooks could be relatively refined (just like you don't need auto-aim with an m/k).

 

But because this game has to compromise between the shooter aspect and the parkour aspect for "controllers", you can't have that, DE have to fine tune the environment so that it's good enough; but it will never be as good as in a game dedicated to movement puzzles as an intrinsic part of the gameplay.

 

IOW the problem is solely on the "controller" side - the difficulty DE have is in compromising between the free-roaming shooter aspect, and the necessity to have some hooks in the environment big enough for parkour to be workable with the low baseline of manual precision you have with a "controller", but keep the hooks small enough so that there's less chance of "accidental parkour" from the vastly larger number of possible random things a player can do in a free-roaming shooter context.

 

In that context, m/k looks after itself - it just has to work with whatever limitations the "controller" has imposed.

Gamepads don't need any of this crap. Everyone knows this. I have been using gamepad with xpadder for years now. Gamepad can work well with any kind of parkour no matter what. Even if it is fined tuned for keyboard. So many MMOs neglect gamepads but that's never an issue with xpadder and other joytokey apps.

 

Have managed to find a program that makes gamepad work well with point n click to the point where it's as if the movement is bind to analog stick with input delay. SO it works despite not being perfect. perhaps a better program has surfaced by now.

 

As long as there are savvy players out there, anything is possible with gamepad. However parkour is quite simple for gamepad, m/k on the other hand. Who knows.

 

Well, I'd like to know which game has parkour fined tuned for m/k use. Would like to test it out on gamepad w/ xpadder.

 

Gotta see it to believe it.

[-CCC-Secret]

I say YAS!

 

Cause why not?! Seriously though, it gives a new style of gameplay for us. Being able to stealth attack from latching is also nice.

[Hrodgrim]

Bumping this topic for extra justice.

 

OP, add a strawpoll to the first post!

Edited June 28, 2015 by Reefermun