De I'm Going To Be Completely Honest About These Proposed Rhino Changes Of Yours

[GhostinDuhBox]

How is the damage protection done though?

 

<snip>

I didn't think of that. That does sound useful and a possible improvement, if it is like that. I doubt it though.

Think of it like this: each attack directed at ironskin that deals less than 800 damage (that damage being diminished by Rhino's defense before it even makes a check against ironskin) is 100% ignored. Any damage that deals more than 800 damage (again, reduced by Rhino's defense) damages Rhino's shields (or health, if his shield's are depleted) by ([the original amount - rhino's defense) - 800]).

And most important of all for our tank - Steel Fiber NEEDS to work on damage reduction on Ironskin shields, regular shields and health. Currently, it apparently only works on health damage. That is a huge drawback.

 

 

DE should really clarify or elaborate on these proposed changes so that the community may provide more refined feedback on this proposed change.

Edited May 22, 2013 by GhostinDuhBox

[Rafarix]

I have a few questions regarding this new Iron Skin.

1) Will there be a indicator for the amount of health Iron skin has left so we'll know when it's about to crumble?

2) Will it have similar traits as the old one such as Shield regen, immunity to disruption and toxic etc.

3) Will the aggro effect still be there when Iron Skin crumbles, because if it is that Rhino is going to die fast in high level missions.

 

Also like many Rhino users, and Veterans alike have pointed out just about his entire powerset needed to be reworked, because they are all just about a weaker version of an existing ability. Since many of use just say it needs rework here are some suggestions if you are looking for some.

 

Rhino Charge - Add a knock back to it so it can better help "Clear the path" on a group of enemies. Everything else about it will remain the same.

 

Rhino Stomp - I have two suggestions.

1) Lower the cost of it so it can better compete with Vauban's Bastille. Everything else about it stays the same.

-or-

2) Add increase damage taken when enemies are stuck during the stasis effect. starting at +25% at level 0, and ending at +100% at level 3

 

Radial Blast - This just needs to be changed entirely since it's just an inferior version of Rhino Stomp. Here's a suggestion.

Thundering Clap - Damages (Radial Blast damage of 250 at max level) enemies in a 90 degree cone and knocks all enemies effect down prone for about 4 seconds. Range 20 meters, or just take one ability from my warframe Idea here. 

Edited May 22, 2013 by Rafarix

[Acyl]

That attention for big threat should be in Nyx's Ult.

 

...yes. It really should be. If they can do this for Rhino's Iron Skin, I'd like to see it for Absorb too.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Acyl

[kLai]

My suggestion would be:

50/60/70/80% damage reduction and a 200/400/800/1600 cap plus immunities. Duration would be 5/7/9/11 seconds.

Damage reduction would apply to shields as we see now. At least when we aggro, you'll last longer than the animation of ironskin.

[TunaMayo]

Can DE or any Moderators answer me a question, I am going to sound pessimistic and like a bit of a hater but I'm not, I'm just interested.

 

@DE : Do you actually have any objective game testers or do you simply rely on us? Because to put it bluntly, the last couple of updates and tweaks to frames and the most recent idea you have come up with for Rhino suggest that you may not.

[TraumaHunter]

Can DE or any Moderators answer me a question, I am going to sound pessimistic and like a bit of a hater but I'm not, I'm just interested.

 

@DE : Do you actually have any objective game testers or do you simply rely on us? Because to put it bluntly, the last couple of updates and tweaks to frames and the most recent idea you have come up with for Rhino suggest that you may not.

They do.  I think I remember a few patches being held onto because they were waiting to hear back from testers.

Can't really imagine a game studio NOT having QA testers.

[Kahruvel]

I must say, this is a pretty passionate response to changes in a... a video game character. Lol.

[Brasten]

I must say, this is a pretty passionate response to changes in a... a video game character. Lol.

That you spent money to buy a forum Avatar for. People, Glass Houses, Rocks. :P

[Un1ted]

What if its [up to] 800 damage reduction per hit..?

 

It doesn't say it's not, so maybe we're all just assuming the worst before seeing the complete picture.

 

Iron Skin damage reduction capped at 200/400/600/800 per hit wouldn't be bad. Anything above the cap does full dmg-per-hit.

[Beartornado]

I didn't think of that. That does sound useful and a possible improvement, if it is like that. I doubt it though.

Think of it like this: each attack directed at ironskin that deals less than 800 damage (that damage being diminished by Rhino's defense before it even makes a check against ironskin) is 100% ignored. Any damage that deals more than 800 damage (again, reduced by Rhino's defense) damages Rhino's shields (or health, if his shield's are depleted) by ([the original amount - rhino's defense) - 800]).

Regardless of the cases, Ironskin never breaks - it runs out after some time.

I doubt it is like that, but if it is, it's indeed pretty darn useful, even at high levels I think.

Edit: I suggest it should also grant full immunity against poison, drain and other status effects such as ice, fire, electricity, knockdown, knockback and stagger. He may receive an upfront damage from all of them (except poison), to be absorbed by the shield, but DoTs and slowing effects would have no effect on him at all.

And, of course, some mods should affect it. Continuity is a given, but Focus would be good to boost the Ironskin shield further. Reach, to increase taunt range.

And most important of all for our tank - Steel Fiber NEEDS to work on damage reduction on Ironskin shields, regular shields and health. Currently, it apparently only works on health damage. That is a huge drawback.

 

I strongly agree with immunity to poison, and infected debuffs in general. I'm insanely annoyed when an infected mission throws several pairs of Healer/Disruptor Ancients at me, and every single Toxic Ancient is a pain in the butt. I'm very new but I could see Rhino's biggest function being to grab the attention of those things at endgame levels and being immune to those effects so that the other, potential damage dealing classes that are weaker defensively, can survive. 

[TunaMayo]

They do.  I think I remember a few patches being held onto because they were waiting to hear back from testers.

Can't really imagine a game studio NOT having QA testers.

 

Well how could someone paid to play this game and give specific feedback allow the last couple of patches/updates/releases to have occurred in such a manner.

 

I'm not openly speaking out against DE as mentioned earlier, but from an objective standpoint not taking in any potential financial models, introducing a new weapon or frame that will be highly sought after into the alert system, one based upon pure luck in a game that is based upon grinding, is not a good implementation.

 

Nor is the complete hash of a power that has been in the game from day 1, which makes a certain frame, without suggesting/insisting that said frame gets a power rework before altering his main use.

 

Anyone who has played the game past Saturn knows that 800 shield is a complete farce in a trade off for what was once "Iron Skin". So are DE listening to their testers? Or are their testers simply inadequate?

Edited May 22, 2013 by TunaMayo

[lZerul]

While an interesting proposal, I agree that its just too weak at higher levels. If it goes through like this, I'd propose it be made a 25 energy cost ability.

 

But I'd prefer it staying at its current energy cost, making it apply armor to this "Damage Barrier" so it has innate damage reduction attached to it. It also gives the Rhino incentive to use the Steel Fiber mod. Obviously, it should also benefit from Warframe ability mods like Focus.

 

In addition, the duration of the CC on his Rhino Stomp and Radial Blast skills need to be looked at.

 

Maybe make Radial Blast 50 energy, and give Rhino Stomp more damage + duration.

 

Also, Warframe ability mods should apply full to anything it doesn't, duration should effect Rhino Stomp's duration, etc.

Edited May 22, 2013 by lZerul

[TheTKForce]

800 seems far too weak for higher level missions. I've heard some people suggesting the skill go back to the way it was with total invulnerability but with a cooldown needed between uses of like 10 seconds and since spamming it for constant invulnerability seemed to be most people's trouble with it, it seems to me a cooldown could be a good solution.

[zorinho20]

800 seems far too weak for higher level missions. I've heard some people suggesting the skill go back to the way it was with total invulnerability but with a cooldown needed between uses of like 10 seconds and since spamming it for constant invulnerability seemed to be most people's trouble with it, it seems to me a cooldown could be a good solution.

Cooldown would be pretty decent solution.Or much,much higher energy cost or even penalty for damaging enemies-like 80% at 1.level.

 

To be honest,when I started to play with Rhino I was shocked surprised,that complete invulnerability is possible for such long periods of time without drawbacks.

For such a  feat,you have to pay a hefty price.

Edited May 22, 2013 by zorinho20

[Kahruvel]

That you spent money to buy a forum Avatar for. People, Glass Houses, Rocks. :P

 

There's a marked difference between buying a forum avatar and writing passionately about how the game is ruined because of a rebalance. :)

Edited May 22, 2013 by Kahruvel

[Naed]

Well how could someone paid to play this game and give specific feedback allow the last couple of patches/updates/releases to have occurred in such a manner.

 

I'm not openly speaking out against DE as mentioned earlier, but from an objective standpoint not taking in any potential financial models, introducing a new weapon or frame that will be highly sought after into the alert system, one based upon pure luck in a game that is based upon grinding, is not a good implementation.

 

Nor is the complete hash of a power that has been in the game from day 1, which makes a certain frame, without suggesting/insisting that said frame gets a power rework before altering his main use.

 

Anyone who has played the game past Saturn knows that 800 shield is a complete farce in a trade off for what was once "Iron Skin". So are DE listening to their testers? Or are their testers simply inadequate?

 

RE: how can someone paid: Everyone makes mistakes, and being a paid QA doesnt mean that they/him/her/it has the time that is needed for it.

 

The "detail" that you a skipping here is : what is the state of the game that the QA people got it in.

 

What if! the game we get is after a gazillion bugs are found by the QA people?

 

Seriously, please dont imply that the QA people dont know what they are doing.

 

They can be doing a perfect job, if the people that should be using their QA results ignore it, then its not QA's fault.

 

Blame the head, not the tail.

 

 

all of this is not "DE is bad" ramble.

 

Its to try and set/show a bit of reality around what QA can and cant be responsible for.

 

[Phoenix86]

This 800 thingy is a further nerf, we need Iron Skin to work good in harder contents not in already_easy_contents come on DEs!!

 

Please answer to us (and like OP said thx for telling us this beforehand)

 

My suggestion still remain this:

 

#1 Rhino Charge - No changes

#2 Radial Blast - Damage equal to Frost's Ice Wave, cost 50

#3 Rhino Stomp - Reduce by 2 sec on all levels the "lifted duration", cost 75

#4 Iron Skin (Ultimate) - Working as the original one, add the new high priority mechanic, reduce duration at max lvl to 10 secs, cost 100

#4 Iron Skin (alternative) - Dmg reduction 80% (both shield and HP, stacks with armor), Immunity to CC/Poison/Drains, cost 100

[Naed]

This 800 thingy is a further nerf, we need Iron Skin to work good in harder contents not in already_easy_contents come on DEs!!

 

Please answer to us (and like OP said thx for telling us this beforehand)

 

My suggestion still remain this:

 

#1 Rhino Charge - No changes

#2 Radial Blast - Damage equal to Frost's Ice Wave, cost 50

#3 Rhino Stomp - Reduce by 2 sec on all levels the "lifted duration", cost 75

#4 Iron Skin (Ultimate) - Working as the original one, add the new high priority mechanic, reduce duration at max lvl to 10 secs, cost 100

#4 Iron Skin (alternative) - Dmg reduction 80% (both shield and HP, stacks with armor), Immunity to CC/Poison/Drains, cost 100

 

Why is it that people are so eager to call it a nerf when they dont know "how" it will work ?

[Phoenix86]

Why is it that people are so eager to call it a nerf when they dont know "how" it will work ?

 

I think we all explained why it's a nerf in a hundred posts before man

[Naed]

I think we all explained why it's a nerf in a hundred posts before man

 

No, you didnt

 

what you explained was:

Why (you) think the change is bad, the problem is you dont know "how" that change will be done.

 

 

Ive said it before. its a number.

 

You have so very little info about this change and you are all running around screaming "dooooom!"

 

Im sorry, but i think its hilarious

 

 

 

Here is a link to the previous post about it:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=494409

Edited May 22, 2013 by Naed

[Roaran7]

It would be interesting if Iron Skin was based on a total amount of damage and not subject to a duration.  In addition, you could boost up the Rhino's speed when not using Iron Skin and give us a penalty to movement speed when using Iron Skin.

 

I would keep however the total damage mitigated at somewhere between 50-90% (not 100%), keep the resistance to all immobilizing/knockdown/poison/disruption though.  And then balance the amount of damage that can be soaked per each application of Iron Skin after all this.  You could even lower the cost of Iron Skin, but make it stackable, so you can increase your resistances but at the cost of your movement speed.

[Phoenix86]

It's clear to me:

 

- you absorb 800 dmg (max'd) and aggro anyone around like Decoy does

- when it ends they'll just rape you since everyone is basically shooting/hitting you and wont stop after

- at higher contents (monsters lvl 40+) 800 dmg are easly dealt in less than 2-3 secs by less than 4 monsters

- that's a further nerf compared to both the original and the 80% red version.

- you are also unable to revive someone safely since you are drawning everyone's attention to you

 

Is it now clear to you too?

Edited May 22, 2013 by Phoenix86

[Naed]

It's clear to me:

 

1: - you absorb 800 dmg (max'd) and aggro anyone around like Decoy does

2:  - when it ends they'll just rape you since everyone is basically shooting/hitting you and wont stop after

3: - at higher contents (monsters lvl 40+) 800 dmg are easly dealt in less than 2-3 secs by less than 4 monsters

4: - that's a further nerf compared to both the original and the 80% red version.

5: - you are also unable to revive someone safely since you are drawning everyone's attention to you

 

Is it now clear to you too?

Show me the info from DE where it says that is how it will work ?

 

That is all im asking for.

 

 

 

Now for the "fun" part.

1: Show where DE has said that is "how" it will work?

2: Show where DE has said that is "how" it will work? 

3: Show the numbers for that while keeping 1-2 in mind

4: So you are saying that a change that you havnt played around with at all, that you actually dont know anything about is going to be a negative ... okay!

5:If you aggro, what does that help your teammates with, if its reviving the downed player, then yes.

[Phoenix86]

I give up.

If this goes live you'll see it by urself.

[Fenrisulfr]