De I'm Going To Be Completely Honest About These Proposed Rhino Changes Of Yours

[Dahrsis]

A word before i start on the Rhino topic.

 

I am mainly a Excal and Ash melee player (more my style), tho i have Rhino at 30. I stopped playing Rhino altogether, because he was, on one side, indeed OP. Invulnerability was over that timeframe too good, especially with the ease of refilling power.

 

Invul is basically never a good idea, but someone else commented on it allready.

 

But here are some points to be considered DE:

 

- If you want Rhino as a tank frame, he ought to be able to follow that call. Your proposed change will indeed make him a tank (aggro mechanic is nice), but it will not make him a tank (dead in 3 seconds on higher content, try it. i fear you haven´t)

This only applies if the intend is only a ward (RPGers will know) as it sounds like atm.

 

- Under every circumstance and iteration Iron Skin needs the Knock down resistance and IF you put a Ward System in he needs complete resist to poison and power drain as in the Complete Invul iteration.

 

- Rework the other 3 abilities. It was said time and time again how copied and underpowered they are. You wonder why everyone uses Iron Skin? There was no alternative.

 

DE, take a very hard look at MMORPGs, look at their handling of changes to Classes. Never ever nerf the only funtional ability without giving incentive to use the others. Guild Wars 1 and 2 were/are doing the same, they hammer everything into the ground, worse, llike you, they do it only to some classes with months in between.

Splitting Playerbase at its finest. This is not working. Not for us, not for you. We get frustrated and leave. Or at the very least wont buy Plat.

 

Tone down slightly, see how it works, then adjust a bit more. We WILL be prepared if you state your intention.

 

Oh and, if you dont have PvP in, don´t do this hammering. Its not needed. If this is the prep for dojo combat...gee, shift gears back, its only a novelty, do not even dare nerfing classes around THAT.

[Tyrian3k]

Show me the info from DE where it says that is how it will work ?

 

That is all im asking for.

 

 

 

Now for the "fun" part.

1: Show where DE has said that is "how" it will work?

2: Show where DE has said that is "how" it will work? 

3: Show the numbers for that while keeping 1-2 in mind

4: So you are saying that a change that you havnt played around with at all, that you actually dont know anything about is going to be a negative ... okay!

5:If you aggro, what does that help your teammates with, if its reviving the downed player, then yes.

 

We can only work with what DE said so far and if what they said so far is what it will finally be then it is a nerf.

If you want numbers then look at my first post in this thread that shows that even if the 800 damage would be affected by the damage reduction of Rhino's armor, it would still be a nerf.

 

Now let me ask you this: What has DE said about the proposed change that makes you believe that it is not a nerf?

[TraumaHunter]

There's a marked difference between buying a forum avatar and writing passionately about how the game is ruined because of a rebalance. :)

I never said the game was ruined.  I never claimed this was doomsday - infact I remained quite positive throughout all of my posts.  Pointing out how thankful I was that these changes were not in stone.  Thanking them throughout for both everything they have done so far and for taking the time to tell us before hand.  Most devs don't do that.

But on the otherside I would like to point out that YES I am passionate about this.  Even if rhino isn't my main character and I don't use him very often I do think that he is one of the most "iconic" warframes in the game.  He is a defining piece of character to the whole game.  A warframe without a rhino isn't really a warframe.  I stood up and spoke on a constructive platform (so that people who wanted to be constructive could be such - and so far in the topic this appears to be standing true. :D )  I am passionate about the future of this game.  You can laugh all you want and call me overdramatic - but this is a game I've been investing my time and money into.  This game feels every part mine as it does DE's ...(even if its not really mine lol).  I am putting my voice and my posts out there stating my concerns, thanking them, and telling them what I think the community as a whole wants to see.

This topic was every bit about communication as it was about the rhino changes themselves.  Call me greedy but I've had a taste of what its like when DE talks back and forth with us.  And I want to encourage more of it.

[KingTaro]

Not sure if this has been suggested, but maybe the devs should make a poll of the top 5 most proposed solutions for the Iron Skin and let the (Rhino) community vote for the best.

[Naed]

We can only work with what DE said so far and if what they said so far is what it will finally be then it is a nerf.

If you want numbers then look at my first post in this thread that shows that even if the 800 damage would be affected by the damage reduction of Rhino's armor, it would still be a nerf.

 

Now let me ask you this: What has DE said about the proposed change that makes you believe that it is not a nerf?

 

The community can work with the numbers, and stick to the numbers (which isnt happening)

 

its not about wanting numbers, its about wishing for people to actually think.

 

The community has the option to actually think for itself, im just trying to remind it of that.

 

I personally find it hilarious that people are more willing to fabricate "numbers/info" instead of actually thinking for just a bit about what is known.

 

imagine if everyone in the community asked about the "how" instead of running in circles with false info ?

 

EDIT: RE what has DE said: nothing, because they havnt told us anything that is actually usefull :) which is why we are having this talk :)

Edited May 22, 2013 by Naed

[TraumaHunter]

The community can work with the numbers, and stick to the numbers (which isnt happening)

 

its not about wanting numbers, its about wishing for people to actually think.

 

The community has the option to actually think for itself, im just trying to remind it of that.

 

I personally find it hilarious that people are more willing to fabricate "numbers/info" instead of actually thinking for just a bit about what is known.

 

imagine if everyone in the community asked about the "how" instead of running in circles with false info ?

 

EDIT: RE what has DE said: nothing, because they havnt told us anything that is actually usefull :) which is why we are having this talk :)

It would be nice if DE could pop in here - explain their intentions so that we could contribute more feedback.

Until then I will assume it meant what I thought it to mean  though.

[Naed]

It would be nice if DE could pop in here - explain their intentions so that we could contribute more feedback.

Until then I will assume it meant what I thought it to mean  though.

Yes, and that is why im questioning/asking about it when people "claim" :)

 

 

And that is perfectly fine :)

 

Thank you for the talk about it thou :)

[TraumaHunter]

Yes, and that is why im questioning/asking about it when people "claim" :)

 

 

And that is perfectly fine :)

 

Thank you for the talk about it thou :)

This topic is almost too civil and constructive.  I am not sure if I'm still on the internet. :P

[TraumaHunter]

6 page bump.

Because I'de still like to see that reply...

[Bubsters]

I hope the update wont be as bad as that xbox 1 reveal. 

 

no more used games. idek.

 

DE dont be like Microsoft! I believe!

[Phoenix86]

48 hrs left to Update 8 (more or less)

[Keyza]

48 hrs left to Update 8 (more or less)

 

Only time will tell. Looking forward to the Patch Update Notes !

[McNappa]

Bump bump bumpety bump

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

What I don't get is why they haven't done the easiest solution ever to this problem:

 

1) make skill ult and raise energy price

 

2) implement cooldown timer to avoid it being spammed

 

That way the skill can remain as is with full power, the cooldown would then make it's use less spammy and more tactical in nature.

Tanks can still tank, they just have to be selective about when to go into a beserker rage.

[TraumaHunter]

What I don't get is why they haven't done the easiest solution ever to this problem:

 

1) make skill ult and raise energy price

 

2) implement cooldown timer to avoid it being spammed

 

That way the skill can remain as is with full power, the cooldown would then make it's use less spammy and more tactical in nature.

Tanks can still tank, they just have to be selective about when to go into a beserker rage.

+1

i suppose we will know soon enough

[Legault]

You know what? I don't even know anymore about Rhino. I'm assembling Frost...

Yeah I did the same, if you have Ash or something you can solo Exta in 5-10 mins, took me about 2 hours to get the 3 blueprints.

 

 

Rhino is just useless now. It's not that good for tanking anymore, soloing anything is stupidly hard and slow compared to other frames and the damage is terrible. You can't even properly support a team. And the new suggestions only make it worse since it takes roughly 5 seconds for a few mobs to do 800 damage. Though it'll be ****ing hilarious to see someone stupid enough to play rhino taunt multiple corpus/grineer. I'm not even gonna bother ressing them.

[Apostus]

I agree with those stating these changes are less than stellar... A CD or shorter duration/higher power cost instead would be very much preferred..

[Phoenix86]

5 minutes to update 8,w e are gonna see veeery soon! 

 

wanna read patch notes!

[BlackFox666]

theclinton, on 22 May 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

I cant believe that we are losing damage protection during ults. Thats the key thing i wanted back for Banshee. enemies being staggered doesnt prevent enemies from shooting at you (Now that SQ range is smaller) and it never stopped ancients. I cant believe this.

Altho I never used Rhino and never will the proposed changes to his iron skin doesnt sound good at all.

Banshee is invulnerable during soundquake i do it all the time.

[Keyza]

I haven't had the chance to get in game yet, can anyone feedback on how "Iron Skin" compares now ?

[Thor]

I haven't had the chance to get in game yet, can anyone feedback on how "Iron Skin" compares now ?

 

I've been testing it out a bit, https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49567-new-iron-skin-initial-feedback/'>here's my initial feedback.

[GhostinDuhBox]

Banshee is invulnerable during soundquake i do it all the time.

Unless they changed something in the last week aside from U8, my banshee was taking damage while using soundquake. You are probably just not noticing the damage.

[Acextreme]

I didn't think of that. That does sound useful and a possible improvement, if it is like that. I doubt it though.

Think of it like this: each attack directed at ironskin that deals less than 800 damage (that damage being diminished by Rhino's defense before it even makes a check against ironskin) is 100% ignored. Any damage that deals more than 800 damage (again, reduced by Rhino's defense) damages Rhino's shields (or health, if his shield's are depleted) by ([the original amount - rhino's defense) - 800]).

Regardless of the cases, Ironskin never breaks - it runs out after some time.

I doubt it is like that, but if it is, it's indeed pretty darn useful, even at high levels I think.

Edit: I suggest it should also grant full immunity against poison, drain and other status effects such as ice, fire, electricity, knockdown, knockback and stagger. He may receive an upfront damage from all of them (except poison), to be absorbed by the shield, but DoTs and slowing effects would have no effect on him at all.

And, of course, some mods should affect it. Continuity is a given, but Focus would be good to boost the Ironskin shield further. Reach, to increase taunt range.

And most important of all for our tank - Steel Fiber NEEDS to work on damage reduction on Ironskin shields, regular shields and health. Currently, it apparently only works on health damage. That is a huge drawback.

Hey, this has some merits. Could you please copy and paste this response in the feedback section for the patch so the brainless developers might see it. Damn, can't believe programmers nowadays have no brains left.

[Acextreme]

*sigh* Why can't we just have the cost for Iron Skin increased to ult level (100 energy)? That way Iron Skin retains its previous usefulness while taking away the spamability. Of course, in that case I don't think the auto-aggro ability should stick as, come on, it just seems stupid for all enemies to try to shoot an invincible target, but surely simply raising the energy cost to ult level should be enough to solve the problem without raising another storm of rage on the forums?

Also I really do wish DE would actually talk to us about their reasons for changing things, and actually discuss with the community. Actually showing what they have planned when it comes to nerfs and tweaks is good, it's a very big improvement, but it still seems they're just randomly picking one idea and sticking with it instead of trying to discuss with the community and picking the majority option.

That's exactly why this bunch of developers are brainless, imho. Their ideas and way of doing things are making their position worse than before. Say the Snipetron. If I am the dev, I would INFORM you guys so you would buy them and KEEP them and WASTE a weapon slot so you would SPEND MONEY using platinum to buy slots! Simple, earns money, but apparently, they don't study economics.

[Judopunch]

What if its [up to] 800 damage reduction per hit..?

 

It doesn't say it's not, so maybe we're all just assuming the worst before seeing the complete picture.

 

Iron Skin damage reduction capped at 200/400/600/800 per hit wouldn't be bad. Anything above the cap does full dmg-per-hit.

See. I think they are trying to avoid making monsters that do 800 damage per hit, as that would 1 or two shot every frame in the game. You know. So other frames can do stuff too.