Vauban Drop Is Kind Of Unfair

[stacey69]

$10? Tiny? Well no wonder you're so arrogant.

Yes Argoms £10 is tiny. We dont live in caves and S#&$ in buckets. Mummy and Daddy earn good money and gief expensive pcs and internet. You know how much these items cost?

 

Blk ops 2 - $80 /w 8 hours gameplay.

Vauban - £10 /w 1 week? gameplay.

 

I may be arrogant. I am not though a @(*()$ idtiot or living with mum and dad asking for hand outs.

 

Thank you.

[Argoms]

Yes Argoms £10 is tiny. We dont live in caves and S#&$ in buckets. Mummy and Daddy earn good money and gief expensive pcs and internet. You know how much these items cost?

 

Blk ops 2 - $80 /w 8 hours gameplay.

Vauban - £10 /w 1 week? gameplay.

 

I may be arrogant. I am not though a @(*()$ idtiot or living with mum and dad asking for hand outs.

 

Thank you.

Did you really state that people buy call of duty for the singleplayer?

 

I feel sorry for your children, either way.

[Aggh]

Also a terrible comparison. Games like Planetside 2 need a lot of active people, as they are all on one server together at the same time. My experience in this game at 4AM feels the same as it does at 7PM. You are incorrect about this game needing a critical mass of people to function.

 

I love it when randoms who have been playing the game for all of a couple weeks run their mouth off.  During cbt, Most of the systems were completely empty and you could only find people to run missions in a handful of hot spots.  Even now you can rarely find people to play most of the higher level systems.  Concurrent players are incredibly important, especially if you're working on unlocking missions for alerts.  The more people that are on, the more likely you are to find people able to play the missions that you need.

[stacey69]

Did you really state that people buy call of duty for the singleplayer?

 

I feel sorry for your children, either way.

Pretty sure i didn't mention single player. Let me check again. 

 

Tum tee tum dee dum... 

 

No i did not say anything about single player. I did however play the awful experience that was multiplayer.  Hacked, bugged and grenade insta death all the time. The new zombies maps were also awful and not enough of them. I paid english pounds £64 of them for blkops2. 8 hours later i left and did not return. This happened to many people.

 

And if your last game for such good value smart arse why are you playing Warframe?:)

 

Go buy some platinum mate. You'll feel so much better afterwards. If you can't afford platinum. go farm with everyone else who farms and enjoy the game. By the way. My child is 8 and she whines far less than you.

[Emotitron]

I love it when randoms who have been playing the game for all of a couple weeks run their mouth off.  During cbt, Most of the systems were completely empty and you could only find people to run missions in a handful of hot spots.  Even now you can rarely find people to play most of the higher level systems.  Concurrent players are incredibly important, especially if you're working on unlocking missions for alerts.  The more people that are on, the more likely you are to find people able to play the missions that you need.

 

Been playing for months now, have already opened up all of the planets (some solo, some with online groups if players joined), and have maxed out 5 frames and 8 weapons. Mods are nearing completion as well (though those final ranks on a few will probably take months to max out).  All I have not done is complete endless waves past 15, but I can't say I really have any interest in that. There is no content in the game outside of the defense missions that I am not able to solo.

But if you want to get hostile, that is your prerogative. I am done with this 'polite' discussion with you now though.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Emotitron

[Aggh]

Been playing for months now, have already opened up all of the planets (some solo, some with online groups if players joined), and have maxed out 5 frames and 8 weapons. Mods are nearing completion as well (though those final ranks on a few will probably take months to max out).  All I have not done is complete endless waves past 15, but I can't say I really have any interest in that. There is no content in the game outside of the defense missions that I am not able to solo.

But if you want to get hostile, that is your prerogative. I am done with this 'polite' discussion with you now though.

Gtfo please, your join date is in april.  Don't know why you'd lie about it.  Even if you are telling the truth, this means you weren't paying attention for months.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Aggh

[Argoms]

Gtfo please, your join date is in april.  Don't know why you'd lie about it.

Join dates seem to be date of first forum post.

[Feldgrep]

Waiting for this thread to be cleaned/locked.

[stacey69]

Waiting for this thread to be cleaned/locked.

I had 1 deleted an hour or so ago so they are watching it:)

[HailCreation]

Chances are it will be moved to a boss when more are added. I think the issue now is that there wasn't a boss available for it to drop from. 

[Argoms]

Chances are it will be moved to a boss when more are added. I think the issue now is that there wasn't a boss available for it to drop from. 

(if this is the case) I hope they realize that if they'd said this instead of doing what they've done, there would be a lot less of an uproar. 

[lautalocos]

Pay play and support the devs.

yeah sure, im gonna pay more than 10 dollars for a character in a game.

[FriedAlbacore]

I am not in disagreement about the RNG system being flawed or needing some work done, but I also have three things to say:

1) This is a "Hack-n-Slash" style game, they get old after a while no matter how much content or back story there is.

2) This is a beta version - the devs are currently working on more content, some of which is in update 8.  The game will grow with time.

3) This is a Free to Play game, the devs rely on the profits the game generates to keep it going and provide updates, etc.  If you haven't atleast spent $5, I think you should atleast be patient and not be so negative with the feedback.

[Archivian]

These things have been pointed out before, but I'll mention them again, just for perspective.

 

1)  While it's been really interesting (for me, at least) to read the various suggestions and viewpoints about Vauban and the Alerts, the whole reason Vauban was made hard to get is so DE could hopefuly generate income from him.  Not enough income = no game.  Debating the various methods DE could choose to offer Vauban's components so that people wouldn't have to pay for him -grinding vs. Alerts, why the current Alert system is bad, how Alerts could be improved, have been good to read, but they all stem from a basic point of view (what's the best way to get Vauban without paying for him) that works against DE making money.  The fact that they have been willing to find ways to allow players to obtain things like Vauban and the Glaive without plat speaks well of them.  They could have simply made them plat-only, but they chose not to.

 

2) Almost every single item in the game, at least till now, has been made available to the players, and everything other than potatoes and color pallets (I think) can be obtained with currency that can be earned in-game.  There are a handful of exceptions, but they were all given away free to almost everyone who was playing the game at that particular time.  The point is, I think DE has really bent over backwards to be generous towards it's players.  I've heard several comments regarding how players need to be incentivized to continue to play WF, and IMHO DE has damn near run itself OUT of incentives to give to players.  Currently players can go everywhere and obtain almost everything....for free.  That's a pretty massive incentive.  The fact that some things are harder to get for free than others (again, IMHO)  in no way negates that massive incentive.

 

My opinion:  I'm not a business major, but I think it's possible that DE may choose (or have to choose) in the future to make some things -weapons, WFs, locations- only available for plat.  This will undoubtably make some players unhappy, for obvious reason.  We all need to remember that ultimately, DE's Job 1 is to make a profit.  Job 2 -making players happy, in a variety of ways- has to serve the interests of Job 1.  Please don't be angry with DE for trying to do what businesses are supposed to do--try and make a profit.

 

1)Yes thats true, that is the base of the argument.

Though that doesn't undermine the ability to make money from the game, there are plenty of other ways to make money from the game, There are games out there which have a long running economy. 

Additionally, yes they need to make money but there prices are high for a micro transaction (regarding warframes at least). Maybe they need to be that high to make back their money, but a high price point is discouraging. And if that is the case the is a problem somewhere in their stratagem, if there wasn't they wouldn't be looking to this "?" Alert mechanic we are all talking about.

 

Additionally i have already given them more money than I would pay for a new console game (console games, sooo over priced). But that isn't enough to have access to the new item? or at least to the same degree I can get other items? Let alone all the other issues stated about alert/prize drops.

 

The problem is their model or at least how parts of it are currently implemented. granted they are probably just testing things out, it being a beta, but for that same reason the point has to be made when there are problems.

 

2)There is no problem with a free player having to wait longer and work harder to get their prize, as long as the player can have an effect on speeding up or getting a better or more chances to get that item.  But the alert system doesn't allow for that.

 

That lots of stuff was given out for free or made available to get for free isn't really bending over backwards. It's a necessity in f2p. Otherwise they may as well do subscription or just one price. 

If they have already given out everything then they didn't have enough for players in the first place tbh. Though it is still in Beta so i don't really hold that against them too much. But they will always have this problem in their current model and frankly in this type of game. The game is about running missions and getting loot, its the core mechanic. The one thing that arguably shouldn't be done is to remove or limit the ability to run missions in a mission running game.

 

That being said, they do have to keep up with content (which they are doing mostly pretty well tbh) because of the dreaded endgame wall, which will always come fast in a co-op mission running game.

 

on your last point

Having plat exclusive stuff that changes the way the game is played, more often or not leads down a bad road for both gamer and dev. Balance issues alone is a headache to think about. 

Not so much a problem with mission areas if they do it right. As players may tend to gravitate to those areas for new farming grounds etc. Its also something that often gets done and has a fair track record of being a good middle ground.

 

Hek, maybe they shouldn't be selling warframes for plat, but new solar systems with new missions. Like a mini expansion every time they release it. 

DCUO essentially do the same thing and I think it still works well for them.

 

They can include new loots and WF BP's all they want. The game is set in space so they can expand with new solar systems forever, and only their creativity will limit what they could produce. 

 

anyways, thats for another thread, and this topic has probably been done to death on this thread now.

 

interesting perspective you have though, even if im not on board with all of it.

[CosyPigeon]

Pay play and support the devs.

 

I did, more than you, but I'd still like some actual game progression, where I can play the game to obtain the things I want and have it mean something, rather than hanging out on twitter waiting for a mythical blue print mission to appear whilst hoping I'm not at work at the time. 

 

+1 to OP, Make a new boss and make it challenging. This alert mission RNG crap is hurting the game. 

[Feldgrep]

I did, more than you, but I'd still like some actual game progression, where I can play the game to obtain the things I want and have it mean something, rather than hanging out on twitter waiting for a mythical blue print mission to appear whilst hoping I'm not at work at the time. 

 

+1 to OP, Make a new boss and make it challenging. This alert mission RNG crap is hurting the game.

They will eventually make new bosses. But if all new things are available for f2ps, how will DE make money?

[Argoms]

This is a Free to Play game, the devs rely on the profits the game generates to keep it going and provide updates, etc.  If you haven't atleast spent $5, I think you should atleast be patient and not be so negative with the feedback.

I disagree. I'm deliberately not spending money until the major problems I have with the current system are changed. If I pay now, I'm basically saying that my problem with the game isn't important anyway, and all I cared about was that I got a certain piece of content, which is not the case. I'm choosing to sacrifice access to content for what I think of as moving the game in a better direction.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Argoms

[CosyPigeon]

They will eventually make new bosses. But if all new things are available for f2ps, how will DE make money?

 

Same way other F2P games do, they could go with the timed exclusivity route of say, black light retribution. Or they could go with only aesthetics and boosts are cash purchasable route of Guild wars 2 and path of exile. Or they could go with the all game play gear is purchasable with in game currency route of planetside 2. 

These are just a few examples, all of these games are successful, and none of them rely on a ridiculous RNG that posts missions at absurd hours when most people can't even play for a drop that is incredibly unlikely to occur in the first place. Alert missions, as they exist now, are dreadful. They completely ruin any sense of achievement or progression, Other F2P titles do just fine without systems based on RNG, so the ever present and annoying "But DE won't be able to make money without poorly thought out RNG progression" argument is invalid and meaningless.

 

[stacey69]

Same way other F2P games do, they could go with the timed exclusivity route of say, black light retribution. Or they could go with only aesthetics and boosts are cash purchasable route of Guild wars 2 and path of exile. Or they could go with the all game play gear is purchasable with in game currency route of planetside 2. 

These are just a few examples, all of these games are successful, and none of them rely on a ridiculous RNG that posts missions at absurd hours when most people can't even play for a drop that is incredibly unlikely to occur in the first place. Alert missions, as they exist now, are dreadful. They completely ruin any sense of achievement or progression, Other F2P titles do just fine without systems based on RNG, so the ever present and annoying "But DE won't be able to make money without poorly thought out RNG progression" argument is invalid and meaningless.

 

Or it could stay as it is and just lock these type of threads. 

 

Why doesn't one of you give DE a better idea of how to make money. Build a profile or some kind of portfolio for them. No one would ignore free advice on how to make money if it works. 

 

Or you could keep moaning.

[Emotitron]

Gtfo please, your join date is in april.  Don't know why you'd lie about it.  Even if you are telling the truth, this means you weren't paying attention for months.

 

And it is the end of may now. The start date seems wrong, is that the day I started playing or the day I first got on the forums? May be under 2 months then, but it is in the ballpark of two months now if feels like. If it is less than two months than that is even more in favor of my point. I had solo'd almost all of the bosses about 2 weeks in, as I remember making posts at the time about how the content went by way too quick.

Why would I lie about such a thing? I have every planet opened up and have for a while now and have solo'd every boss. It isn't some great boast, most players have. My point stands that even playing solo you can tear through this games content. The only part you need teammates for are the mod farms on defense missions, which are always easy to get. You don't need a massive population for that when there are only a dozen or so maps good for farming.

And why is this turning into a pis-sing content? I don't know you and I don't know why you are being so hostile.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Emotitron

[CosyPigeon]

Or it could stay as it is and just lock these type of threads. 

 

Why doesn't one of you give DE a better idea of how to make money. Build a profile or some kind of portfolio for them. No one would ignore free advice on how to make money if it works. 

 

Or you could keep moaning.

I just did, I pointed to multiple other free to play titles that make money and don't sacrifice game play mechanics for profit margins. 

 

When DE take a mechanic the community has been asking for for months like handspring, and then do something as idiotic as turn it into a mod instead of making it part of the move set just for the sake of platinum sales, you bet I'm gonna piss and moan!

I paid for a game, not a collection of mechanics to be arbitrarily sliced up and tacked on or hidden away whenever DE thinks it isn't milking people as much as it could be. Based on these last few updates, they've spent more time thinking about how they can charge for new content rather than thinking about how the new content could actually improve the game. 

[Guest]

This is in no way, shape, or form relevant or contributing to this discussion.

It is relevant

 

Just because something seems unfair, doesn't mean that it's a problem

 

I do not see the alert system as unfair, and thus I have no problem with it

 

It's in no way a bad thing to speak up about it, but people have already voiced their opinion and noted there are those who share your views

 

Not only that but the staff at DE have already taken notice of your opinions as well

 

Stop wanting, stop feeling like you need to have everything and just live life, content with what you already have

 

Just relax and play the game and have fun

 

Same argument can be made against me but that's just my point of view

 

If you can't be as satisfied then that's cool too

[freakystupi]

Pay play and support the devs.

realy its free to play game silly comment but if you like it go founder i did never regreted it but i totaly agree the chances of geting this frame are stupidly low add this to no weapons for sale for in game cash and you get a PAY to WIN trend realy starting to develope here.

 

if it was how it is now when i started i wouldnt of kept playing or become a founder

[Archivian]

There seems to be a fair number of posts that are in the position of

 

1)This convosasion is irrelevant

or

2)This is just moaning

or 

3)Pay more money and stop moaning

or 

4)how will DE make profit.

or

5)Lock the thread this doesn't help anyone.

or

6)You just want to get things right now without paying.

 

To those people:

1)This topic keeps reappearing in the forums due to the issue still being here (and not using the search properly). This conversation is relevant until the issue is resolved to a degree where both DE and the player-base find a middle ground.

 

2)  If all people had said was "this is unfair", i might agree. But there is no lack of reasons and examples as to why it is unfair.

 

3.4.5.6)

So if I have already about $60-70 for a PC game i've generally paid over the odds. (though paid in smaller amounts over time rather than a lump sum) 

On top of that I haven't even paid for a final product in this case. So lack of content bugs and changes are all things i knew i was getting into.

Also I am paying more money for less actual "stuff". EG. I still have to buy each part of customization, where as the money i already paid would cover things like customization in other types of games.  So I'm already paying more than a fully complete PC game, + maybe a DLC or 2. (im being generous here)

 

But still that is not enough money to ask to be able to GRIND FOR DAYS to get the suit components rather than STOP PLAYING THE GAME until they tell me I can attempt to get a piece of gear when the game says I can. What reason would there be to play this game over any other free game? (other than being a space ninja which is very cool)

 

You have to realize something, I am arguing to be allowed to grind in a game. Im actually asking to have the opportunity to GRIND ( hate reptative grinding). But it would seem those of the view that I just want free stuff, or stuff now without paying, clearly don't understand the concept of grinding. If I put in 50hours of gameplay to get a  suit component (oh how i hate/love the banshee) that is the same as wanting it free and wanting it right now? REALLY? 

 

If people stop playing that will cost them more money. Than any of this.

 

Locking the thread as the convo is right now is counter productive. As another thread and another on the same subject will happen until the issue is solved. There are a couple of unproductive posts. Mostly from the positions I listed above (im clearly biased though). As those positions don't actually do anything constructive in the topic (unless its 4) or unless they actually explain why and how the other point is moaning or is wrong). That being said all are entitled to an opinion,  

 

However pointing out how/why things are wrong is not moaning if they are true. And some have already given examples on what else DE could do. Which to be honest the examples offered are the most obvious ones in the world (My own included), because other games already do it. And DE's marketing wizard/s chose to ignore any other working model and try something which isn't working and hunts for more ways to make profit by going for a system that discourages gameplay (i mean, come on, really? that idea should have been shot down before it got off the ground). If they are having money issues or just want more profit at this point, and their market system discourages playing the game, non of that is actually on any of the players, That is DE's failure to look at other game economies and look at which ones work and which ones fail and WHY. Surely that would be the first and most commonsense step, a little critical thinking would have dissected up coming problems with the alert system.

 

But maybe they knew what problems to expect and they feel they can get around it or fix it it wouldn't be a real issue (I hope not by adding another out of game mechanic). 

[Argoms]

Dear people who think it's fine the way it is and people should just suck it up,

"The problems everyone has with the Alert System aren't being ignored, please see item number 4 of on the list of Hot Topics."-DERebecca

Again, practically everyone (with few exceptions) in favor of the current alert system doesn't say it's good and back it up. DE acknowledges that the current alerts system has problems, so stop trying to argue that it's fine the way it is unless you can actually be constructive about it. For example,

Most posts defending alerts in this thread: "Deal with it. Life is unfair, support the devs anyway you selfish freeloader."

Constructive reasoning for the current alert system: "It creates a sense of the world really being dynamic."

Edited May 23, 2013 by Argoms