If Mag Is Useless Now, Then We Buff Mag!

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I've recently been seeing a lot of cries of "Mag is worthless!" since Greedy Pull was changed so that it doesn't reward you for not playing the game anymore. This is a fantastic change that needed to happen, and I feel that the vast majority of these complaints are massive overreactions. Yeah, Trinity's been totally worthless since they nerfed Blessing, too.

 

However, I've been having some ideas for Mag changes for awhile now, and now that Greedy Pull has been nerfed FIXED, I'm going to play the devil's advocate and share them. Assuming that Mag truly is useless, we don't un-nerf a stupid augment that was breaking the game. We buff Mag!

 

The main problem I see with Mag is the very thing she's built around: magnetic damage. Mag's exclusive focus in magnetic damage severely hurts her versatility, restricting her to being a Corpus slayer and a Corpus slayer only. To solve this, there needs to be fundamental changes to the magnetic element.

 

Magnetic element changes:

1. Remove -50% damage penalty against alloy armor

2. Add +25% damage bonus against ferrite armor

3. Add -25% damage penalty against both Corpus and Grineer flesh (Infested stays as is)

4. In addition to its current effects, the magnetic proc now prevents enemies from using their abilities (Grineer heavies' ground slam, Corpus Techs' deployable osprey, Ancient/Corrupted Healers' healing and damage resistance, all eximus abilities, etc.) for the 4-second duration of the proc (does not work on bosses, mini-bosses, Nullifiers, or Tenno.)

 

These changes are designed to make the magnetic damage type have a place in endgame. The changed damage bonuses and resistances make it more effective at fighting high level armored enemies, and the new proc effect is designed to mimic the energy removal that the magnetic proc has on Tenno. The new proc effect is definitely the biggest and seemingly weirdest change here, but it has both logical and gameplay reasons behind it. The magnetic proc drains Tenno of all their energy, why shouldn't it have a similar effect on enemies? It would also both give Mag an endgame niche entirely to herself, and make magnetic status weapons endgame viable. With that out of the way, let's move on to Mag's first ability, Pull.

 

Pull changes:

1. Pull has a 25% magnetic proc chance

 

Pull augment: Gun Pull

1. Pull disarms enemies instead of pulling them

2. Disarmed enemies are pulled as normal

3. Using Pull on a non-disarmed enemy removes the 25% magnetic proc chance

4. Enemies disarmed by Loki's Radial Disarm are pulled as normal with the 25% magnetic proc chance

 

This single change to Pull allows Mag to make use of the additional magnetic proc effect, giving her a very useful niche unique to only her: ability denial. I originally thought the proc chance should be 100%, but constantly spamming Pull with a 100% chance to block enemy abilities would prevent any enemy from ever using any ability ever, so 25% seems more balanced. This may need to be lowered even further, depending on how strong 25% is.

 

The augment gives Mag even more endgame viability, allowing her to fill another role in a team. For the sake of balance, enemies would no longer be pulled or magnetic proc'ed on the first cast, and to pull them as normal, a second cast is required. This also creates synergy with Loki, since he can disarm enemies as well, allowing for Mag to pull enemies as normal on the first cast.

 

Oh, and if you say that it would make Mag take Loki's role, just think about Nyx's troubled relationship with Irradiating Disarm. Now, let’s move on to Shield Polarize.

 

Shield Polarize changes:

1. Shield Polarize now removes armor as well, but the removal percentage is half of what it is against shields, and it does not cause armor to explode

2. Every enemy hit by Shield Polarize, shielded or not, has a 25% chance to be hit with a magnetic proc

3. The explosion effect cannot cause magnetic procs, to avoid double-proccing a single enemy

 

Shield Polarize is a fantastic ability, but only when used against shielded enemies. These changes would give Mag the ever important ability of armor removal and make Shield Polarize actually useful against non-shielded enemies, but do so in a way that doesn’t sacrifice its primarily anti-shield focus. Just like with Pull, the magnetic proc chance may need to be lowered for balance reasons. There’s really not that much else to say. Moving on.

 

Bullet Attractor changes:

1. All enemies inside Bullet Attractor’s bubble take the full increased damage from every shot that hits the bubble

2. All enemies inside the bubble cannot use their abilities, identical to the new magnetic proc effect, except it lasts until the enemy leaves the bubble or the bubble goes away

3. All enemies inside the bubble are marked on the minimap until they leave the bubble or the bubble goes away

4. When the bubble explodes, the explosion damage has a 100% magnetic proc chance

 

Bullet Attractor has become known as an incredibly weak ability because its purpose is to focus damage on a single target, which is the same reason sniper rifles are so terrible right now. These changes allow it to focus damage to a group of targets, with utility purposes as well. It allows for more reliable ability denial than Pull and Shield Polarize, but this is balanced by decreased spammability.

 

Crush changes:

1. Damage counts as finisher damage

2. The final damage tick has a 100% slash proc chance

3. Each damage tick has a 10% magnetic proc chance

4. Now only targets enemies in a cone in front of Mag, cone angle increased by power range

 

Back when Mag was first released, Crush dealt damage. Now, not so much. These changes are all about making Crush actually deal damage again. I want to feel like I’m actually crushing my enemies’ bones, dam it. If your bones were to be crushed, it would make sense if you would bleed afterwards, and external armor wouldn’t protect you from internal damage. The reasoning behind the cone targeting mechanic is to prevent players from just standing on energy restores all day and letting the game play itself for them; they actually have to look around to hit all the enemies.

 

I would greatly appreciate feedback on these suggestions, as well as your thoughts on the Greedy Pull debacle. Feedback on my suggested changes would be really nice, since I put a lot of work into puzzling out Mag's problems and thinking of ways to solve them.

Edited July 8, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[OvAeons]

i pity those who think she is useless now... bullet attractor does need some love, crush is actually decent now and with the Augment can be really good with grineer. shield polarize does not need any changes.

 

i am completely fine with gpull being changed though i think it should pull all for self and pull ammo/mods for team or just something that takes more thought to implement then nixing drops for all teammates

 

and i expect 300 of these types of topics in the next week.

Edited July 8, 2015 by OvAeons

[Censium]

i pity those who think she is useless now... bullet attractor does need some love, crush is actually decent now and with the Augment can be really good with grineer. shield polarize does not need any changes.

 

i am completely fine with gpull being changed though i think it should pull all for self and pull ammo/mods for team or just something that takes more thought to implement then nixing drops for all teammates

 

and i expect 300 of these types of topics in the next week.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

i pity those who think she is useless now...

 

I've recently been seeing a lot of cries of "Mag is worthless!" since Greedy Pull was changed so that it doesn't reward you for not playing the game anymore. This is a fantastic change that needed to happen, and I feel that the vast majority of these complaints are massive overreactions. Yeah, Trinity's been totally worthless since they nerfed Blessing, too.

 

I've had these Mag change ideas for quite awhile now, and with the Greedy Pull debacle, it seemed like the best time to share them. Even if all these "Mag is worthless" threads are massive overreactions, Mag still isn't exactly the greatest Warframe or endgame content. These changes are designed to make her have a useful endgame niche with her ability denial powers, hopefully bringing her into the list of top tier endgame warframes.

 

shield polarize does not need any changes.

 

My issue with Shield Polarize is that it only really does anything against shielded targets, and currently, Warframe's endgame content greatly favors enemy armor over shields. It lacks versatility.

 

 

Gonna have to copy+paste that into all "Mag is useless" threads now.

Edited July 8, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Censium]

Gonna have to copy+paste that into all "Mag is useless" threads now.

[Kruglov]

- Make pull remove armor or disarm enemies hit by it

 

- Shield Polarize should also remove a portion of enemy armor and scale damage according to how much armor was removed

 

- Bullet attractor should reflect a % of damage inflicted inside of it instead of a flat level of Blast damage

 

- Crush is fine. Especially with the f a n t a s t i c augment.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

You know when people say she is useless, they don't mean she is unusable.  They mean she doesn't serve a standout purpose that isn't better filled by many other frames.  Greedy pull gave her massive utility.  With that gone now, she is "useless".  Her only good skill is SP, and that is useless against anything that doesn't have a shield.  Sure it can nuke things, but so can many other skills, and by the time it might actually be useful -due to infinite scaling- everyone is already extracting.  

 

She just isn't worth letting into a squad anymore.

[Eric1738]

mag is fine. if you are the mag, you still get whatever you had before. if you are mag's teammates, start learning energy management.

if there is only one thing we could learn from all the changes and nerfs, it has to be that DE absolutely dislikes "infinte energy". since most abilities have no CD, one way DE balances them are through energy restriction.

[Kracken]

People tend to be really narrow minded (bad pun not intended) when they are forced to think outside the box. They become accustomed to use her in certain way. And when that "way" become "useless" as those people described (imo its still works as intended) they refuse to use her in different way. 

What need to change is not the Mag itself (because she is fine ) but the mentality of those (let name them) "pro draco farmers".

[OkniolasPrime]

*cough*

 drained target produces a violent outburst of magnetic energy inflicting 100% / 150% / 200% / 250% of the enemy's drained shields as Magnetic damage. The explosion will affect all enemies within a 5 / 8 / 11 / 14meter radius of the drained target.

• Damage multiplier is affected by Power Strength, and the explosion damage diminishes with distance.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

 

*cough*

 drained target produces a violent outburst of magnetic energy inflicting 100% / 150% / 200% / 250% of the enemy's drained shields as Magnetic damage. The explosion will affect all enemies within a 5 / 8 / 11 / 14meter radius of the drained target.

• Damage multiplier is affected by Power Strength, and the explosion damage diminishes with distance.

 

And your point is...?

 

Shield Polarize changes:

1. Shield Polarize now removes armor as well, but the removal percentage is half of what it is against shields, and it does not cause armor to explode

2. Every enemy hit by Shield Polarize, shielded or not, has a 25% chance to be hit with a magnetic proc

3. The explosion effect cannot cause magnetic procs, to avoid double-proccing a single enemy

 

Shield Polarize is a fantastic ability, but only when used against shielded enemies. These changes would give Mag the ever important ability of armor removal and make Shield Polarize actually useful against non-shielded enemies, but do so in a way that doesn’t sacrifice its primarily anti-shield focus. Just like with Pull, the magnetic proc chance may need to be lowered for balance reasons. There’s really not that much else to say.

 

You know when people say she is useless, they don't mean she is unusable.  They mean she doesn't serve a standout purpose that isn't better filled by many other frames.  Greedy pull gave her massive utility.  With that gone now, she is "useless".  Her only good skill is SP, and that is useless against anything that doesn't have a shield.  Sure it can nuke things, but so can many other skills, and by the time it might actually be useful -due to infinite scaling- everyone is already extracting.  

 

She just isn't worth letting into a squad anymore.

 

What do you think of my suggestion giving Mag a new niche in endgame as an enemy ability suppressor? I was hoping it would make Mag a top tier frame for endgame in a unique way.

Edited July 8, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[OkniolasPrime]

And your point is...?

My point is, that it is good like it is now, mag's not in need of a buff, imho, but, then again that just me.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

My point is, that it is good like it is now, mag's not in need of a buff, imho, but, then again that just me.

 

Once again, its problem is that it's near useless against anything that's not shielded, and shielded things are few and far between in endgame. My suggestion allows it to be useful in more situations without sacrificing its anti-shield focus.

[OkniolasPrime]

Once again, its problem is that it's near useless against anything that's not shielded, and shielded things are few and far between in endgame. My suggestion allows it to be useful in more situations without sacrificing its anti-shield focus.

One, or two shielded are enough, to murder a large group of enemies, because let's be real, no one goes for over 1h t4 survival without 4x corrosive projection, thus if there are 1 or 2 corrupted crewman, or one shield osprey.... =Allot of dmg.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

 

I've recently been seeing a lot of cries of "Mag is worthless!" since Greedy Pull was changed so that it doesn't reward you for not playing the game anymore. This is a fantastic change that needed to happen, and I feel that the vast majority of these complaints are massive overreactions. Yeah, Trinity's been totally worthless since they nerfed Blessing, too.

 

However, I've been having some ideas for Mag changes for awhile now, and now that Greedy Pull has been nerfed FIXED, I'm going to play the devil's advocate and share them. Assuming that Mag truly is useless, we don't un-nerf a stupid augment that was breaking the game. We buff Mag!

 

The main problem I see with Mag is the very thing she's built around: magnetic damage. Mag's exclusive focus in magnetic damage severely hurts her versatility, restricting her to being a Corpus slayer and a Corpus slayer only. To solve this, there needs to be fundamental changes to the magnetic element.

 

Magnetic element changes:

1. Remove -50% damage penalty against alloy armor

2. Add +25% damage bonus against ferrite armor

3. Add -25% damage penalty against both Corpus and Grineer flesh (Infested stays as is)

4. In addition to its current effects, the magnetic proc now prevents enemies from using their abilities (Grineer heavies' ground slam, Corpus Techs' deployable osprey, Ancient/Corrupted Healers' healing and damage resistance, all eximus abilities, etc.) for the 4-second duration of the proc (does not work on bosses, mini-bosses, Nullifiers, or Tenno.)

 

These changes are designed to make the magnetic damage type have a place in endgame. The changed damage bonuses and resistances make it more effective at fighting high level armored enemies, and the new proc effect is designed to mimic the energy removal that the magnetic proc has on Tenno. The new proc effect is definitely the biggest and seemingly weirdest change here, but it has both logical and gameplay reasons behind it. The magnetic proc drains Tenno of all their energy, why shouldn't it have a similar effect on enemies? It would also both give Mag an endgame niche entirely to herself, and make magnetic status weapons endgame viable. With that out of the way, let's move on to Mag's first ability, Pull.

 

Pull changes:

1. Pull has a 25% magnetic proc chance

 

Pull augment: Gun Pull

1. Pull disarms enemies instead of pulling them

2. Disarmed enemies are pulled as normal

3. Using Pull on a non-disarmed enemy removes the 25% magnetic proc chance

4. Enemies disarmed by Loki's Radial Disarm are pulled as normal with the 25% magnetic proc chance

 

This single change to Pull allows Mag to make use of the additional magnetic proc effect, giving her a very useful niche unique to only her: ability denial. I originally thought the proc chance should be 100%, but constantly spamming Pull with a 100% chance to block enemy abilities would prevent any enemy from ever using any ability ever, so 25% seems more balanced. This may need to be lowered even further, depending on how strong 25% is.

 

The augment gives Mag even more endgame viability, allowing her to fill another role in a team. For the sake of balance, enemies would no longer be pulled or magnetic proc'ed on the first cast, and to pull them as normal, a second cast is required. This also creates synergy with Loki, since he can disarm enemies as well, allowing for Mag to pull enemies as normal on the first cast.

 

Oh, and if you say that it would make Mag take Loki's role, just think about Nyx's troubled relationship with Irradiating Disarm. Now, let’s move on to Shield Polarize.

 

Shield Polarize changes:

1. Shield Polarize now removes armor as well, but the removal percentage is half of what it is against shields, and it does not cause armor to explode

2. Every enemy hit by Shield Polarize, shielded or not, has a 25% chance to be hit with a magnetic proc

3. The explosion effect cannot cause magnetic procs, to avoid double-proccing a single enemy

 

Shield Polarize is a fantastic ability, but only when used against shielded enemies. These changes would give Mag the ever important ability of armor removal and make Shield Polarize actually useful against non-shielded enemies, but do so in a way that doesn’t sacrifice its primarily anti-shield focus. Just like with Pull, the magnetic proc chance may need to be lowered for balance reasons. There’s really not that much else to say. Moving on.

 

Bullet Attractor changes:

1. All enemies inside Bullet Attractor’s bubble take the full increased damage from every shot that hits the bubble

2. All enemies inside the bubble cannot use their abilities, identical to the new magnetic proc effect, except it lasts until the enemy leaves the bubble or the bubble goes away

3. All enemies inside the bubble are marked on the minimap until they leave the bubble or the bubble goes away

4. When the bubble explodes, the explosion damage has a 100% magnetic proc chance

 

Bullet Attractor has become known as an incredibly weak ability because its purpose is to focus damage on a single target, which is the same reason sniper rifles are so terrible right now. These changes allow it to focus damage to a group of targets, with utility purposes as well. It allows for more reliable ability denial than Pull and Shield Polarize, but this is balanced by decreased spammability.

 

Crush changes:

1. Damage is 25% impact, 25% puncture, 25% slash, and 25% magnetic

2. Damage counts as finisher damage

3. The final damage tick has a 100% slash proc chance

4. Each damage tick has a 10% magnetic proc chance

5. Now only targets enemies in a cone in front of Mag, cone angle increased by power range

 

Back when Mag was first released, Crush dealt damage. Now, not so much. These changes are all about making Crush actually deal damage again. I want to feel like I’m actually crushing my enemies’ bones, dam it. If your bones were to be crushed, it would make sense if you would bleed afterwards, and external armor wouldn’t protect you from internal damage. The reasoning behind the cone targeting mechanic is to prevent players from just standing on energy restores all day and letting the game play itself for them; they actually have to look around to hit all the enemies.

 

I would greatly appreciate feedback on these suggestions, as well as your thoughts on the Greedy Pull debacle. Feedback on my suggested changes would be really nice, since I put a lot of work into puzzling out Mag's problems and thinking of ways to solve them.

 

Shes not useless. Love the gun pull augment. But i never seen 1 ability get 2 augments. But i really like that. Plus she is a Corpus killer. Shield transference is awesome. Bullet attractor derserve some love. Give Mag Tonkor and bullet attractor for when you dnt wonna aim. She is awesome. 

[RealPandemonium]

You know when people say she is useless, they don't mean she is unusable.  They mean she doesn't serve a standout purpose that isn't better filled by many other frames.  Greedy pull gave her massive utility.  With that gone now, she is "useless".  Her only good skill is SP, and that is useless against anything that doesn't have a shield.  Sure it can nuke things, but so can many other skills, and by the time it might actually be useful -due to infinite scaling- everyone is already extracting.  

 

She just isn't worth letting into a squad anymore.

The game isn't hard enough to warrant screening frame choices like that.  This kind of attitude just tells DE to idiot-proof the game and create more of the "AFK farm instead of playing a game" standard that we've been seeing.  What's the point of grinding for rewards if the grind isn't fun and there's no worthwhile gameplay for you to use the fruits of your labor in?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The game isn't hard enough to warrant screening frame choices like that.  This kind of attitude just tells DE to idiot-proof the game and create more of the "AFK farm instead of playing a game" standard that we've been seeing.  What's the point of grinding for rewards if the grind isn't fun and there's no worthwhile gameplay for you to use the fruits of your labor in?

Because, I can't have fun with something until I already have it. If I am grinding for it, I want to do it in the most efficient way possible do I can get back to having fun as soon as possible.

[zoboso]

these changes seem interesting, mag was more capable when all factions had shielded enemies, and there were no shield bypass mechanics. your changes mollifies the former, but could you add a passive that affects the latter.

[RealPandemonium]

Because, I can't have fun with something until I already have it. If I am grinding for it, I want to do it in the most efficient way possible do I can get back to having fun as soon as possible.

Wouldn't you prefer the grind itself being fun?  In the current system the grind isn't fun and when you do reach your goal, you just use it (or don't even) in more unfun grind for the next goal, and the process repeats itself.  Do we really want that to be the core of Warframe for so many players?

[-KoreanPotato-]

so why get a loki or loki p when you can get a mag that has a far better and spamable first ability than loki's 4th ability.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

so why get a loki or loki p when you can get a mag that has a far better and spamable first ability than loki's 4th ability.

 

So why get a Nyx or Nyx Prime when you can get a Loki that has a far better and more spammable ability than Nyx's 3rd?

Edited July 8, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[KillingDyl]

In my opinion the only ability of mag that needs reworking is bullet attractor. As it stands, most enemies in the game die way too fast for it to be of any use and most enemies aren't quick moving mobile types that would be a target for bullet attractor. I know that it does have a 2x damage multiplier but as I said before, most enemies die too fast. Also Nova's molecular prime is a better ability for multiplying damage as it hits multiple enemies and slows them down.

[Culaio]

Wouldn't you prefer the grind itself being fun?  In the current system the grind isn't fun and when you do reach your goal, you just use it (or don't even) in more unfun grind for the next goal, and the process repeats itself.  Do we really want that to be the core of Warframe for so many players?

 

grind is fun for few first runs once you do 20+ runs with bad rewards you just want to have it behind you >_>, farms like draco are created because of all the grind walls, if they dont decrease grind then nothing will change, for example draco exists because people had enough for grinding exp for same weapon over 4 times just to make it USEFUL(some frames need a LOT of formas to be usable).

 

I spend over 7 hours to get part for frame I really wanted, I didnt camp or anything, I was playing it normally but it was NOT fun at all, I have fun in game when NOT grinding for stuff over and over and over and over again.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Culaio

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Wouldn't you prefer the grind itself being fun? 

No, I would prefer it to be over.

[RealPandemonium]

No, I would prefer it to be over.

If all we do is grind for more tools to grind with, and you don't want to grind, then what's the purpose of playing the game?  The whole reason this game appealed to me in the first place was because the grind was both fun and rewarding.  Not so much anymore, though...

Edited July 9, 2015 by RealPandemonium