Exalted Blade Makes Excalibur A Living Fluctus And Deafeats The Ability Purpose

[GottFaust]

 

TL;DR :read underlined parts

 

Hi everyone! I'm writing this because, after some time to recover from the Excal 2.0 hype (XD) I noticed something wrong with his 4th ability...

When I play with other Excaliburs all I hear is "swoosh-swoosh-swoosh"... this is the sound of the spam. And when I turn to see the origin of this sound, I see this Excal cutting the air, killing hordes of enemies dozens of meters away from him. Obviously I see no one caring for the awesome but unnecessary combos. Not talking about Slash Dash (which has lower range than the waves and still is highly unrelyable) And I have to admit that I, too, ended playing him this way.

But this is not melee combat. This is gun fighting.

The energy wave thing totally ruins the concept of the ability and the warframe itself. The blade is nothing more that a Fluctus with a cool sword skin.

 

About this, I thought  some solutions:

1)only some moves from some combos create energy waves.

This way you can't spam waves and you have to do specific moves to use them, thus promoting the use of different combos.

2)introduce a charge attack that creates a wave, while every other attack don't.

You could still spam, but it would be slow and not that effective. The wave could cost a bit of energy to discourage the abuse (I'd prefer, but it could not be necessary )

3)only when channeling you create waves, but that comes with more energy consumption, so that you could still spam, but you're more limited and need to think when you can do it

And that's it, tell me what you think ;)

 

How about: no.  He's completely fine as he is.

Edited July 11, 2015 by GottFaust

[Senketsu_]

Im  pretty sure they ment for it to be used the way it is right now. The combos actually make bigger energy waves iif you actually pay attention to them.

they mant for him to be able to use the advantages of melee damage at a safer distance. That gives him way more viability and survivability in high level missions. I love playing my Excal now more then ever. Because he can stand with the big boys.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Senketsu_

[TheBrsrkr]

So without the waves, what is the reason to use Exalted Blade? You could just use Scindo Prime to deal even more dmg instead?

And no, auto parry is not worth it, because u will die quickly in high level if you dont rely on blind anyway, and outside of high level, abilities have no importance whatsoever because of defense mods, so any change is completely pointless.

If anything, this thread should be about buffing Radial Javelin, not nerfing a core part of a frame that is currently not even useful in any organized high level play, and outclassed by many other frames in high level solo.

Did he say remove the waves? No, he didn't. All you did is see the word nerf and start ranting. Just because EB isn't as broken as Saryn and the like means it's not stupidly overpowered and fits the theme of Swordsman? It doesn't, and you know it. Every frame should be judged on their own merits and shortcomings, not simply forced to be like any other frame. Instead of outright lying about its effectiveness, you can instead tell us about why you think a 40m infinite punch through wave a second that does 50k damage per wave on a duration build is balanced on a frame intended for close to mid range combat.

[Ronyn]

  

But this is not melee combat. This is gun fighting.

The energy wave thing totally ruins the concept of the ability and the warframe itself. The blade is nothing more that a Fluctus with a cool sword skin.

 

I tend to agree with the OP: the current energy waves destroy the melee feeling.

Excalibur is somewhat melee-centric but he isn't really a "melee" frame.

 

 

It's not fine as it is, DE set out to make Swordframe, and they completely failed. Those of us who still hold out hope for him to be Swordframe should be able to post opinions without fear of the backlash shown in this thread.

 

I actually agree with the OP, to a degree. Yes it's fun being extremely powerful and shooting waves of energy that travel massive distances and pierce through enemies and terrain, but the fact that it's used as a gun more often than an actual sword is very unfitting as a swordsman's ultimate ability. 

All of his powers use swords, he has passive bonuses to using swords. So he is indeed a Swordframe.

Just not the kind some were hoping for.

 

If you figured "swordsman" meant mostly melee range..I can understand that interpretation ...

but that is not exactly what DE promised nor is it what they wanted for him.

 

Interesting tweak ideas though...

About this, I thought  some solutions:

1)only some moves from some combos create energy waves.

This way you can't spam waves and you have to do specific moves to use them, thus promoting the use of different combos.

2)introduce a charge attack that creates a wave, while every other attack don't.

You could still spam, but it would be slow and not that effective. The wave could cost a bit of energy to discourage the abuse (I'd prefer, but it could not be necessary )

3)only when channeling you create waves, but that comes with more energy consumption, so that you could still spam, but you're more limited and need to think when you can do it

And that's it, tell me what you think ;)

 

Reduce the range to 15m-20m
Give it 5m of cover punch through, infinite on enemies
Give a combo spme radial knockback or something along those lines
Boom. Swordframe.

 

 

 Perhaps the energy waves should take some effort to achieve (such as the combos that no one bothers using anyway) but be made much more powerful to compensate.

 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[Lus5ive]

Excal is fine now. All he needs though is a really small damage tweak for Exalted Blade.

[Bizzaro21]

 that does 50k damage per wave

wrong, with radiant finish it hardly reaches 30k

[GottFaust]

 

I actually agree with the OP, to a degree. Yes it's fun being extremely powerful and shooting waves of energy that travel massive distances and pierce through enemies and terrain, but the fact that it's used as a gun more often than an actual sword is very unfitting as a swordsman's ultimate ability. Perhaps the energy waves should take some effort to achieve (such as the combos that no one bothers using anyway) but be made much more powerful to compensate.

 

 

How can you honestly say this isn't what DE wanted from him when they are the ones who implemented him as he is?  Did you not SEE the demos they gave of him?  They knew exactly what they were doing.

 

 

Also: as many have said: without a full suite of maxed rank 10 mods and extremely rare melee mods: his blade wave damage is VERY lackluster.  Just because YOU experience him as a "waveframe" does not mean that's what he is for 90% of players.  Also, if you haven't tested him: the wave and the blade BOTH hit in melee and the blade does significantly more damage.  If you want to maximize your effectiveness you still have to go into melee range.  Just because you CAN stand back on low level content and sling waves does not mean that you should or that it's optimal.

 

TL;DR:  Your bad habits and maxed builds do not dictate the balance or intent of the frame.  The frame should not be nerfed to compensate for YOU and YOU ALONE.

Edited July 11, 2015 by GottFaust

[Ronyn]

How can you honestly say this "isn't what DE wanted from him" when they are the ones who implemented him as he is?  Did you not SEE the demos they gave of him?  They knew exactly what they were doing.

lol..please read my post again. You seem to have pretty much took my statements almost entirely backwards.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[DeMonkey]

If you figured "swordsman" meant mostly melee range..I can understand that interpretation ...

The 'only' interpretation of swordsman is melee-ranged fighter. Unless there's some ancient tribe of warriors who throw swords at people.

 

Nevertheless I am biased as I always played Excalibur as a melee frame with blind, his rework into a ''swordsman'' I believed would compliment my playstyle. Instead he now has a fluctus and the rework destroyed blind. 

[GottFaust]

lol..please read my post again. You seem to have pretty much took my statements almost entirely backwards.

Woops, replied to the wrong person.  Meant to reply to paradox.  Fixing that shortly.

 

 

The 'only' interpretation of swordsman is melee-ranged fighter. Unless there's some ancient tribe of warriors who throw swords at people.

 

Nevertheless I am biased as I always played Excalibur as a melee frame with blind, his rework into a ''swordsman'' I believed would compliment my playstyle. Instead he now has a fluctus and the rework destroyed blind. 

Again: balance is not about YOU.  It's about the game as a whole.  The sooner you learn that the happier you'll be.

Edited July 11, 2015 by GottFaust

[Shinobi-kun]

By 'swordsman' in DE's case, Excal wields a sword. Doesn't matter it's magical and can cleave mountains or not. 

Because were being a 'swordsman' in WF, Ember would have to get a zippo and light people on fire in close range.

[DeMonkey]

Again: balance is not about YOU.  It's about the game as a whole.  The sooner you learn that the happier you'll be.

 

Never said it was.

[Ronyn]

The 'only' interpretation of swordsman is melee-ranged fighter. Unless there's some ancient tribe of warriors who throw swords at people.

Come on now. What a something means in the real world isn't the full spectrum of what something will mean in a game where there are super powers.

 

besides..if you dig into mythology a sword that can cut at a distance is not unheard of.

 

Nevertheless I am biased as I always played Excalibur as a melee frame with blind, his rework into a ''swordsman'' I believed would compliment my playstyle. Instead he now has a fluctus and the rework destroyed blind. 

Sure, he has all that range capability.....but he is just as (if not more) capable of excelling in melee range as he was before the rework.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ronyn

[GottFaust]

Never said it was.

And yet your entire post was referring to how it would fit YOUR interpretation of a swordsman and YOUR playstyle.  DE knew exactly what they were doing and what they intended when they implemented him.  Simply because you don't like it doesn't mean it's incorrect.

[Autongnosis]

Well, i could see toning down a bit the range and/or limiting a bit object punchthrough. Imho it should work like bows - about 1m punchtrhough and phisic impact that throws enemies backward damaging everything in th line.

[DeMonkey]

And yet your entire post was referring to how it would fit YOUR interpretation of a swordsman and YOUR playstyle.  DE knew exactly what they were doing and what they intended when they implemented him.  Simply because you don't like it doesn't mean it's incorrect.

Mhm, I stated that my opinion of the frame and the reasons for my opinion. I honestly don't care whether it gets changed or not, plenty of other frames in the game for me to play.

[TheBrsrkr]

wrong, with radiant finish it hardly reaches 30k

Idk what kind of build you're using, but with a modded Scindo Prime and just intensify I hit 40/50k no problem.

[NovaanVerdiano]

Main thing that should be changed is the fact that the waves can destroy nullifier-shields, null shields are supposed to block all abilities, so why doesn't it block the energy waves?

[GottFaust]

Mhm, I stated that my opinion of the frame and the reasons for my opinion. I honestly don't care whether it gets changed or not, plenty of other frames in the game for me to play.

You say you don't care, and yet you are repeatedly calling for him to be changed to match your opinion of what he should be.  That sounds a lot like caring.

 

Again: your opinion of what a swordsman should be or what you want excal to be does not hold any weight in light of what DE implemented him as.  They knew exactly what they were doing when they created this iteration.  Simply because you don't like it does not mean it should change.

[SwiftPotato12]

You're one to talk.

I say no, because things to me, are already as tough as it is. I don't spam EB, I use them for emergencies. 

^

 

I fully and wholeheartedly agree with this.

 

On another note; LEAVE EXCALIBUR ALONE. After 2 years of uselessness and being called the noob-frame I think he is well deserving of this change.

 

When I solo missions with Excalibur only, it gives me a reason to bring a decent melee and just use that. My fourth ability becomes similar to Valkyr's fourth for some; An emergency button. Even then, like others have stated above, Radial Blind is more useful in most situations.

[GottFaust]

Main thing that should be changed is the fact that the waves can destroy nullifier-shields, null shields are supposed to block all abilities, so why doesn't it block the energy waves?

For the exact same reason they don't block reflected shots from Mesa's Shattershield, Oberon's Smite projectiles, Ash's Shurikens, Shots from targets affected by Nyx's Mind Control, and any other projectile resulting from a power.  It's simple: because it's intended that way.

[Yami666]

Yay another lovely day another lovely nerf topic.

 

Anyway if something is slightly better than my fav it instantly deserves nerf.

 

You guys dont need to response on my post i just had to participate with few of my words.

[DeMonkey]

You say you don't care, and yet you are repeatedly calling for him to be changed to match your opinion of what he should be.  That sounds a lot like caring.

Nope, I'm not.

 

 

Again: your opinion of what a swordsman should be or what you want excal to be does not hold any weight in light of what DE implemented him as.  They knew exactly what they were doing when they created this iteration.  Simply because you don't like it does not mean it should change.

Never said it should, majority like it which is a good reason to leave it as it is. It doesnt fit what I personally like, simple as that.

[GottFaust]

Nope, I'm not.

 

 

Never said it should, majority like it which is a good reason to leave it as it is. It doesnt fit what I personally like, simple as that.

Do you read your own posts?  You have called for him to be nerfed/altered a total of 5 times in this thread alone.

[DeMonkey]

Do you read your own posts?  You have called for him to be nerfed/altered a total of 5 times in this thread alone.

Still wrong, I've said I don't like him, never actually asked for him to be nerfed. Please comment where I've specifically asked for him to be nerfed.