Shouldn't Pre-Corpus Valkyr Be "healed" Valkyr?

[Kasseopea]

Let me explain. If you read the abilities and lore of Valkyr, it is stated that some of her abilities if not all came from the torture, the pain and the dispair. Her abilities are:

 

Ripline: Looks mechanical rather than a natural Warframe ability

Warcry & Paralysis: Both acts of dispair. The first one puts you and you teammate into a frenzy, the second forfeits defense in order to paralyse (Probably similar technique we seen in the Alad V Trailer, when Mag was paralyzed)

Hysteria: Self-explanatory.

 

My point being - her "real" abilities, the ones that she had prior to her capture are sadly lost and the ones she got, were aquired while being tormented.

 

Now if we look at her close, we still see tubes, bolts and other mechnical parts embedded in her body.

 

Since she keeps her abilities, but changes her looks into that of a healthy, healed warframe, i think it would make more sense to name the skin "Healed" or "Awakened" or something along the lines.

 

At least it would F*** less with the lore. Just my opinion though, im hyped as hell for her new skin. To be honest i never could play her, because i always had to think of what she had been through and because of all those scars that were left on her body.

[Oomatu]

I had this thought. Excellent assesment of the topic! +1

[Incrodon]

Well, keep this in mind, the Orokin were far less than kind to any that were low in their society, tenno being seen as weapons, well in Rhino Prime Codex the orokin scientist saw dissecting and butchering and torturing their tenno as if it was a mundane task.
Either Salad took notes or old data found in towers, or Valkyr existed in the orokin era.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Incrodon

[LordOfScrugging]

you can't heal mental scars

[(PSN)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT]

Well, keep this in mind, the Orokin were far less than kind to any that were low in their society, tenno being seen as weapons, well in Rhino Prime Codex the orokin scientist saw dissecting and butchering and torturing their tenno as if it was a mundane task.

Either Salad took notes or old data found in towers, or Valkyr existed in the orokin era.

 

It says "forged in the labs of the Zanuka Project" in her codex entry.

[Ionus]

Who said her abilities before she was tortured weren't the same as the ones she has, but slightly different in how they manifest?

Ripline is fine as-is.

Warcry gets a more valiant warrior tone, instead of rage.

Paralysis gets the same treatment as Warcry. Maybe add a shield bash in there somewhere(paralysis was originally called Shield Bash).

Hysteria can stay as claws, because the cat likeness is still apparent in the new design.

Not even lore-breaking.

[Kasseopea]

you can't heal mental scars

 

1. Yes you can. Slowly, with a lot of love and care. ^^

2. That's part reason why she keeps her abilities, but NOT her looks

 

See, why should she have had them BEFORE being tortured?

 

 

Who said her abilities before she was tortured weren't the same as the ones she has, but slightly different in how they manifest? Ripline is fine as-is. Warcry gets a more valiant warrior tone, instead of rage. Paralysis gets the same treatment as Warcry. Maybe add a shield bash in there somewhere(paralysis was originally called Shield Bash). Hysteria can stay as claws, because the cat likeness is still apparent in the new design. Not even lore-breaking.

 

She looks like a cat, and sure, some cats can be mean, but going Berserk? None of her abilities fit a cat. Or have you seen a cat shoot a ripline and go up a tree with it?

 

If at all, something like a continuous wall-run or bleeding-damage would make sense, not undying rage and paralysing enemies with your shields, with a wave that looks like corpus tech. (as well as the ripline she shoots from her arm-attatchments)

Edited July 13, 2015 by Kasseopea

[Tesseract7777]

Just change the names of the abilities when they prime her, but make them work the same. 

[Incrodon]

It says "forged in the labs of the Zanuka Project" in her codex entry.

Even with warframe's tendency of describing details in a vague or artsy manner, if they mean forged as in forged, then Valkyr wasn't invented, just created, using corpus tech to fill in the gaps of tech Alad couldn't grasp but ultimately it implies she was the latest of warframe designs discovered not invented. Which does allow for the idea of the original being Identical to the Valkyr we all know except for a far less mutilated body being true.

[Stratego89]

Well, keep this in mind, the Orokin were far less than kind to any that were low in their society, tenno being seen as weapons, well in Rhino Prime Codex the orokin scientist saw dissecting and butchering and torturing their tenno as if it was a mundane task.

Either Salad took notes or old data found in towers, or Valkyr existed in the orokin era.

This. Valkyr's mental scars could in lore be explained not just by the corpus tortures but also during the old war. ALL Tenno were treated as weapons and subjected to horrors beyond belief. This would also explain how one Tenno that can swap suits can channel a Valkyr suit's abilities that are fueled by the users grief and rage.

[Ionus]

She looks like a cat, and sure, some cats can be mean, but going Berserk? None of her abilities fit a cat. Or have you seen a cat shoot a ripline and go up a tree with it?

 

If at all, something like a continuous wall-run or bleeding-damage would make sense, not undying rage and paralysing enemies with your shields, with a wave that looks like corpus tech. (as well as the ripline she shoots from her arm-attatchments)

 

Her entire theme after she was tortured is still that of a cat. And she's a berserker. Huh.

 

I believe DE has said something on this topic before. I'll need to dig around for it, but it was in response to a question about Valkyr Prime. Something along the lines of "who said she wasn't a berserker before?"

[Kasseopea]

This. Valkyr's mental scars could in lore be explained not just by the corpus tortures but also during the old war. ALL Tenno were treated as weapons and subjected to horrors beyond belief. This would also explain how one Tenno that can swap suits can channel a Valkyr suit's abilities that are fueled by the users grief and rage.

 

Fair enough, but why would the Orokin intentionally break one of their very, very expensive (if not valuable) soldiers? Read Mag Prime's lore - only one was sent with an entire fleet.

A 4-Tenno squad is basically an army - after all, we kill thousands of Orokin-Controlled entities without much effort.

 

If Valkyr actually had some abilities, why crush her mental health? And even if they did so - how would they know whether she would stay stable and most importantly - loyal enough to control her on a battlefield?

 

The Corpus? Sure, stuff they do would make even Mengele proud, but Orokin? They were truly intelligent, calculating, precise. Their only weakness was arrogance. They wouldn't create a psychopathic warframe that is driven only by suffering and hatred, because the first thing she did would probably tear her teammates apart.

 

And one more thing - the Warframes came back from the Void. If Valkyr came from the void - thus from the Orokin - and if she already had her abilities - since the Orokin did that to her in the first place - why would the Corpus keep torturing her? It just doesn't add up.

 

Unless you are saying Warframes are not unique, but then it would be a tremendous coinsidence that Corpus decide to torture Valkyr just as Orokin did. (I feel so damn sorry for her, just want to cuddle her Q_Q)

Edited July 13, 2015 by Kasseopea

[Orbister]

It's a restored look, not a different frame.

[(PSN)Ninja_Reaper_916]

Lots of lore holes in what little lore we have and also she ain't no berserker berserkers don't have god mode lol that's main reason I don't like her she isn't even a proper berserker

[Ishki88]

Pure Valkyr FTW

[Kasseopea]

Pure Valkyr FTW

Sounds awesome too XD

 

It's a restored look, not a different frame.

Kind of the whole point of my plea - give us a restored Valkyr, not her former Shadow that is gone.

 

(g2g2 sleep, keep up the discussion until im back :P)

[(PSN)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT]

Even with warframe's tendency of describing details in a vague or artsy manner, if they mean forged as in forged, then Valkyr wasn't invented, just created, using corpus tech to fill in the gaps of tech Alad couldn't grasp but ultimately it implies she was the latest of warframe designs discovered not invented. Which does allow for the idea of the original being Identical to the Valkyr we all know except for a far less mutilated body being true.

 

The fact that the skin exists nullifies your argument, in fact, your argument nullifies your argument (it's not actually an argument in this case). You're suggesting that the Corpus created their own warframe, which is not the case. The word 'forged' does not mean they created her from scratch as their own design.

 

Supporting Evidence:

 

forged

fôrjd/

adjective

adjective: forged

1. copied fraudulently; fake.

   "they have illegally entered the UK using forged travel documents"
2.  

forge¹

fôrj/

verb

past tense: forged; past participle: forged

1. 1.

   shape (a metal object) by heating it in a fire or furnace and beating or hammering it.

   synonyms: hammer out, beat into shape, fashion

   "smiths forged swords"
2. 2.

   produce a copy or imitation of (a document, signature, banknote, or work or art) for the purpose of deception.

    

    

   Please note the emphasized areas. The very existence of the skin proves there was an original form that was altered somehow, not created as she is today.

    

   P.S. Please excuse the salt I am passionate about my Valkyr lore in particular.

Edited July 13, 2015 by (PS4)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT

[Incrodon]

Fair enough, but why would the Orokin intentionally break one of their very, very expensive (if not valuable) soldiers? Read Mag Prime's lore - only one was sent with an entire fleet.

A 4-Tenno squad is basically an army - after all, we kill thousands of Orokin-Controlled entities without much effort.

 

If Valkyr actually had some abilities, why crush her mental health? And even if they did so - how would they know whether she would stay stable and most importantly - loyal enough to control her on a battlefield?

 

The Corpus? Sure, stuff they do would make even Mengele proud, but Orokin? They were truly intelligent, calculating, precise. Their only weakness was arrogance. They wouldn't create a psychopathic warframe that is driven only by suffering and hatred, because the first thing she did would probably tear her teammates apart.

 

And one more thing - the Warframes came back from the Void. If Valkyr came from the void - thus from the Orokin - and if she already had her abilities - since the Orokin did that to her in the first place - why would the Corpus keep torturing her? It just doesn't add up.

 

Unless you are saying Warframes are not unique, but then it would be a tremendous coinsidence that Corpus decide to torture Valkyr just as Orokin did. (I feel so damn sorry for her, just want to cuddle her Q_Q)

Yes we all want to cuddle her, but to more serious things first.

1.They very much need to know the limits of the tenno, breaking one of them to the point of it becoming a besereker was a good way to see, from the fact that the Tenno were willing to commit mass genocide to the orokin populace from the lowest in the slums to the goldfish to the royals, and the fact mirage wasn't realy phased at all from death, they have near unbreakable will, but still hold grudges, and carry them out in unfathomable effectiveness. The original probably showed as much discipline, cooperation, and teamwork as any other orokin elite/tenno showed during battle, and no resistance to the orokin hierarchy and scientist, so they though she was perfectly stable, so they made more.

2. The original is most likely dead from the orokin era... they most likely found the corpse and made a replica, noticed it couldn't activate her powers, found research showing how the original was tortured, and done the same to the new one.

[Incrodon]

 

The fact that the skin exists nullifies your argument, in fact, your argument nullifies your argument (it's not actually an argument in this case). You're suggesting that the Corpus created their own warframe, which is not the case. The word 'forged' does not mean they created her from scratch as their own design.

 

Supporting Evidence:

 

forged

fôrjd/

adjective

adjective: forged

1. copied fraudulently; fake.

   "they have illegally entered the UK using forged travel documents"
2.  

forge¹

fôrj/

verb

past tense: forged; past participle: forged

1. 1.

   shape (a metal object) by heating it in a fire or furnace and beating or hammering it.

   synonyms: hammer out, beat into shape, fashion

   "smiths forged swords"
2. 2.

   produce a copy or imitation of (a document, signature, banknote, or work or art) for the purpose of deception.

    

    

   Please note the emphasized areas. The very existence of the skin proves there was an original form that was altered somehow, not created as she is today.

    

   P.S. Please excuse the salt I am passionate about my Valkyr lore in particular.

 

I never said the corpus invented the valkyr frame, just created... their is a massive difference between create and invent Let me clarify my words.

You made a Burston in the lisets foundry, did you just invent a new burst fire weapon, make your own Blueprint with years of designing and taking notes of other burst fire weapons and create the first ever Burston? No, you made a Burston that's it, their, sure you may paint it differently, maybe add some forma to change it even more, but ultimately it is a replica.

[Stratego89]

Fair enough, but why would the Orokin intentionally break one of their very, very expensive (if not valuable) soldiers? Read Mag Prime's lore - only one was sent with an entire fleet.

A 4-Tenno squad is basically an army - after all, we kill thousands of Orokin-Controlled entities without much effort.

 

If Valkyr actually had some abilities, why crush her mental health? And even if they did so - how would they know whether she would stay stable and most importantly - loyal enough to control her on a battlefield?

 

The Corpus? Sure, stuff they do would make even Mengele proud, but Orokin? They were truly intelligent, calculating, precise. Their only weakness was arrogance. They wouldn't create a psychopathic warframe that is driven only by suffering and hatred, because the first thing she did would probably tear her teammates apart.

 

And one more thing - the Warframes came back from the Void. If Valkyr came from the void - thus from the Orokin - and if she already had her abilities - since the Orokin did that to her in the first place - why would the Corpus keep torturing her? It just doesn't add up.

 

Unless you are saying Warframes are not unique, but then it would be a tremendous coinsidence that Corpus decide to torture Valkyr just as Orokin did. (I feel so damn sorry for her, just want to cuddle her Q_Q)

I'm not saying they intentionally broke her- I'm saying that the Orokin used Tenno as a tool of war- a weapon of mass destruction. They used them- they didn't fight with them. Being forced to kill thousands and watch your allies die alongside you after being thrown into our equivalent of a black hole as a guinea pig and physically scarred and changed into something that you can't even begin to recognize anymore- then having a warsuit wrapped around you- that would have to mess anyone up mentally. Valkyr isn't psychotic- she wouldn't tear her teammates up. Half her pain probably comes from watching her allies die. The corpus weren't mentally torturing her or trying to create her powers- they were physically tearing her suit apart and altering her (note the giant rods through her arms for her bonds) to research and reverse engineer her powers.

[Doom_Bunny]

It's a skin. This is what she looked like before the corpus, it is not her current state, it does not affect the lore. It's like someone saying that proto Excal must be different because that version is the unstable prototype but it's not different because it's a skin. He should glow then explode when activating his fourth XD

 

DE wouldn't do a restored Valkyr because that treads into the vandel/wraith territory were the tenno (vandel) or people (wraith) mess with various weapons. Doing a restored Valkyr would open the door to vandel/wraith frames.

 

As for abilities, they don't appear to be able to change. The whole Zariman incident leads me to believe that the abilities are ingrained into the child. Meaning that nothing short of changing something like their dna is going change the abilities. Though due other frames manipulating elements it makes me think these abilities are like a muscle. Which would explain the wrist spikes going through/breaking the restraint.

 

"Orokin broke her"

Well it's a possibility. I mean their experiments were brutal enough to require a morgue specifically for tenno. According to the codex entries they would of been born and raised as an experimental weapon. Education in language might of been little which would explain their silence or silence was part of their training. Either way their lives would of been brutal and harsh. So really we could explain Valkyr's case in a lot of ways. It's not hard to see she could of been a berserker before the corpus. Which would mean that all the corpus achieved was make her lose control of that state of mind. Meaning that the berserker in her would be more in control of her than her normal self.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Kasseopea]

It's a skin. This is what she looked like before the corpus, it is not her current state, it does not affect the lore. It's like someone saying that proto Excal must be different because that version is the unstable prototype but it's not different because it's a skin. He should glow then explode when activating his fourth XD

 

DE wouldn't do a restored Valkyr because that treads into the vandel/wraith territory were the tenno (vandel) or people (wraith) mess with various weapons. Doing a restored Valkyr would open the door to vandel/wraith frames.

 

As for abilities, they don't appear to be able to change. The whole Zariman incident leads me to believe that the abilities are ingrained into the child. Meaning that nothing short of changing something like their dna is going change the abilities. Though due other frames manipulating elements it makes me think these abilities are like a muscle. Which would explain the wrist spikes going through/breaking the restraint.

 

"Orokin broke her"

Well it's a possibility. I mean their experiments were brutal enough to require a morgue specifally for tenno. According to the codex entries they would of been born and raised as an experimental weapon. Education in language might of been little which would explain their silence or silence was part of their training. Either way their lives would of been brutal and harsh. So really we could explain Valkyr's case in a lot of ways. It's not hard to see she could of been a berserker before the corpus. Which would mean that all the corpus achieved was make her lose control of that state of mind. Meaning that the berserker in her would be more in control of her than her normal self.

 

Only that Proto-Excal IS supported by the lore - he was the first and the follower of Hayden Tenno, who looked very similar to that. So yes, it is very possible that this was Ex's first look which then developed into the Ex we know now.

 

Now to the theory: If the Orokin originally tortured her into being Valkyr as we know her - why is her body intact? Mental / Non-Invasive torture? Might be, but why would the powers be the same then? And if the Corpus were following the results of the Orokin, why was their result different?

 

The way i see it - there are many, many dormant Warframes - i.e. the ones we are guarding in Defense missions. My suggestion is that Valkyr was one of them, got captured and turned into the mess she is now. There was no "orokin" Valkyr at all and the one we will get as skin, is a Valkyr that got repaired and restored.

 

Problem with that is, she is an exception, since she came from the Corpus labs rather than some time-rift (Limbo) or because of stuff & reasons (Mirage). Ofc we will eventually get a Valkyr Prime, which means they will have to imagine a story as to why she already was like this before.

 

But as some already stated - there are tons of plotholes and "mysteries" in the lore, as well as collisions with gameplay.

 

In any case - i would find it more logical and appealing that Lotus found a way to repair Valkyr. It doesn't make much sense that she is still running around with BOLTS through her arms and legs. Aside from being painful it has to be movement restricting and a structural weakpoint.

[Kasseopea]

Any DE who would post his thoughts on this?

[Monybags33]

This has been highly debated for some time and probably why no Primed Valkyrie has been done as of yet despite popularity, after all she is the only frame too have had this so you would think something needs too be changed in her skill set. Well you would at least but honestly if you ever did look up what a "Valkyrie" is in Nordic Mythology then you would easily conclude that many of her abilities only are "cosmetically" needing adjustments and not her overall powers. 

 

Example: Her 4th for that matter people have almost demanded at times it should be changed when she is her original self but also many disagree seeing as its most likely her original 4th ability but channelled in a different way then it normally would be because of the Corpus "attachments" they gave her. Valkyries are normally depicted with swords and or anything close range related going in a sort of "rage" mutilating enemies and taking no damage or pain what so ever (again this sound familiar)? Her other abilities such as War cry do not need fixing is this is the case and neither dose her other melee related skills. Now rip line might need some tweaking depending how the myth is going too be played because remember whether it be pre-Valkyrie or Valkyrie as we know her now that rip line is a very odd skill for her and thus didn't seem right in the first place why would we change it now?

 

 

Either way this is just my thoughts on it but many people need too realize that her frame really is very based off of this "Valkyrie Worrier" myth from in Nordic mythology and that despite what changes they do her abilities most likely will need visual tweaks and have nothing too do with a overhaul in changing the powers just outright.

[Gremlin]

It's the same thing for Excal and I'm sure Nyx. They should have completely different abilities, but don't since they are just skins.