Excal Is Perfectly Fine

[AsuraKyu]

If by perfectly fine you mean in severe need of a nerf then yes, he's fine. He needs to be dialed back about 15-25% in terms of power. I'm fine with all skills as they are outside of exalted blade. Exalted blade is pretty much an Energy powered Gun equipped with an arsenal of Warframe skills. Not saying he needs a huge nerf just needs to be brought back down to the atmosphere

[Slaviar]

there is only 1 problem with EB, and that is that its waves can damage and destroy Nullifier shields, which defeats the purpose of said unit

 

some people will rage that this is being brought up, but obvious bugs need to be fixed

In case you didn't notice- they used to ignore bubble and kill everything inside. It's fixed now, they damage the bubble but can't kill anyone inside as long as it's up.

 

limbo-oberon-hydroid-volt-ember

 

._.

I got entire post wrong, read it as he's too powerful, not he's more powerful. Which is true. that's why all these frames need reworks too.

[nmuaddib]

If by perfectly fine you mean in severe need of a nerf then yes, he's fine. He needs to be dialed back about 15-25% in terms of power. I'm fine with all skills as they are outside of exalted blade. Exalted blade is pretty much an Energy powered Gun equipped with an arsenal of Warframe skills. Not saying he needs a huge nerf just needs to be brought back down to the atmosphere

 

Tell how making a good frame a bad one or weaker one is the right approach? His is an example of what DE wanted for the game in the first place, a build that is useful in most situations, even in difficult ones, and that has 4 abilities that work perfectly with each other. We need just the opposite, bring everybody to his level, this game would be a lot more fun.

[Acos]

EB doesn't do anything I can't do with a high-tier gun and punch through. I don't mind his power being... powerful so long as he still has to move around, point his weapon, and generally be *played* to do it. I'd much rather have damage abilities like Exalted Blade to abilities like Bladestorm, Peacemaker, Rhino Stomp, Etc. 

[nmuaddib]

EB doesn't do anything I can't do with a high-tier gun and punch through. I don't mind his power being... powerful so long as he still has to move around, point his weapon, and generally be *played* to do it. I'd much rather have damage abilities like Exalted Blade to abilities like Bladestorm, Peacemaker, Rhino Stomp, Etc. 

 

Perfectly stated.

[Echowing]

If by perfectly fine you mean in severe need of a nerf then yes, he's fine. He needs to be dialed back about 15-25% in terms of power. I'm fine with all skills as they are outside of exalted blade. Exalted blade is pretty much an Energy powered Gun equipped with an arsenal of Warframe skills. Not saying he needs a huge nerf just needs to be brought back down to the atmosphere

The problem is that while EB may be an "energy-powered gun," there are plenty of bullet-powered guns that also let you use all of your frame's abilities.

[Kappa64]

This is a false argument, simply because spamming with EB is not efficient as a nuker.

 

A good Excal, approaches a cover near a group of enemies at high speed with his dash, pops out the cover with radial blind to incapacitate them, dives into the group using his EB short to mid range, with well aimed slashes, due the low speed, and gets his asss out of there with dash again as soon as possible. I'm talking about level 80+ enemies that can kill you pretty fast here.

 

Your example is the case of a new guy that just discovered EB, and does not know how to play Excal properly yet.

Or you could just blind them and throw slashes at them, which still does a ton of finisher damage.

Any decent melee turns those slashes into nukes, and the punch through like I said doesn't help either.

The way you describe excal makes him sound so much more difficult than he really is, when in reality, it takes a 2 and a couple of mouse clicks to murder a room.

[MEsoJD]

 If they would turn off auto parry and change the execute button to something other than melee... he would be perfect. That said, this is the most entertaining frame in my opinion. I main melee with him most of time and he's so hands on.

 

 What's really annoying are the players that spam EB early on like idiots. I don't take it out unless it's really needed.

[nmuaddib]

Or you could just blind them and throw slashes at them, which still does a ton of finisher damage.

Any decent melee turns those slashes into nukes, and the punch through like I said doesn't help either.

The way you describe excal makes him sound so much more difficult than he really is, when in reality, it takes a 2 and a couple of mouse clicks to murder a room.

 

If you build him for strength, you don't get too much extra range, and so you cannot blind the entire room, you have to close in a bit. The waves are slow, short to mid range works a lot better, and even more if you are inside the pack, which in turn leads to aiming (not precise aiming like a headshot on a moving target across the room, but aiming, nevertheless). I mentioned an example of a way that can kill high level enemies, with a certain safety factor, I've gone through entire T3Ds, to wave 60, not from inside the bubble, but doing as I described, without getting downed once.

I'm not making it look difficult, you are making it look easy in a way that can work perfectly fine in low level, but is not enough to keep you alive when it really matters.

 

And in the end, the best Excal players know something for a fact: Playing him with skill is a lot more gratifying and fun than just spamming, have you ever tried to kill as many enemies you can with the fewer possible slashes? If it is not your thing, leave us be...

[Kappa64]

If you build him for strength, you don't get too much extra range, and so you cannot blind the entire room, you have to close in a bit. The waves are slow, short to mid range works a lot better, and even more if you are inside the pack, which in turn leads to aiming (not precise aiming like a headshot on a moving target across the room, but aiming, nevertheless). I mentioned an example of a way that can kill high level enemies, with a certain safety factor, I've gone through entire T3Ds, to wave 60, not from inside the bubble, but doing as I described, without getting downed once.

I'm not making it look difficult, you are making it look easy in a way that can work perfectly fine in low level, but is not enough to keep you alive when it really matters.

 

And in the end, the best Excal players know something for a fact: Playing him with skill is a lot more gratifying and fun than just spamming, have you ever tried to kill as many enemies you can with the fewer possible slashes? If it is not your thing, leave us be...

Like I said, I'm not knocking Excal for being unskillful. Sure, you could aim and be all skilled about playing him, but the truth of the matter is, I'm knocking him because, in most instances, an Excal could easily blind, throw a few slashes, and deal upwards of 40K damage on each slash and kill enemies 3 rooms away.

You can't possibly say that having the blind turn his slashes into finisher damage, and having said slashes punch have a 50m punch through is a balanced thing to have?

Edited July 13, 2015 by John_Brown

[S7ORM]

That's very true.

Some frames are much weaker than the average.

So maybe we should try and make these frames better?^^'

But then everyone complains that enemies are too weak, and we buff enemies, so we're back to where we started.

That's the reason we got t4 instead of using the derelicts for prime parts.

Short of a major rework of balance, I'd be more content to fix the one out-of-place element. It would take less time and resources from [DE] to tone Excal down a notch rather than everything up a few notches (Tenno and enemies).

[S7ORM]

Example?

4k damage waves at a rate of 2 per second, that have infinite punch through at 40m range, and let you be essentially invincible from 180 degrees ahead of you, for a duration of 1 minute without any mods for efficiency or either of the flows and ignore any energy drops. And in addition, a 1k radial damage blast every few kills.

 

Edited July 13, 2015 by S7ORM

[Kappa64]

10k damage waves at a rate of 2 per second, that have infinite punch through at 40m range, and let you be essentially invincible from 180 degrees ahead of you, for a duration of 1 minute without any mods for efficiency or either of the flows and ignore any energy drops.

 

To add to this, I managed to do a 40min T4 survival solo as Excal, and managed to stay in exalted blade for all but 2 instances, that of which being a nullifier sneaking up on me, and me falling into a pit. 

Max efficiency, even with a Blind Rage, is ridiculous on Excal.

[Vasault]

yeah i'm getting sick of people complaning about the ulti, we finally have a decent excalibur since the beginning of this game, years ago, please let us enjoy this proper rework from the poor excalibur

[Slaviar]

All nerf threads are similar- waves op cause much damage, can be active for too long, nullies got their bubbles shrinked, punchthrough to igh, too long range. SAME THING can be done with weapons. EB isnt radial ability with 40m base range and 50k dmg which ignores nullies. It's not press 4 to win skill, it really require some thinking to use effectively.

Do people really want to make it another Hysteria? We all know (I hope at least) that Hysteria is poor because it forces Valkyr to melee and deals inferior damage. Invulnerabilty isn't good enough to balance it.

[Redhux]

Yes, he's hella fun. But he's also way more powerful than any other frame now. Waaaaaaaay more powerful.

 

Yes, that's why you shouldn't ask for a Saryn' Miasma change :D

[Marthrym]

But then everyone complains that enemies are too weak, and we buff enemies, so we're back to where we started.

That's the reason we got t4 instead of using the derelicts for prime parts.

Short of a major rework of balance, I'd be more content to fix the one out-of-place element. It would take less time and resources from [DE] to tone Excal down a notch rather than everything up a few notches (Tenno and enemies).

That's exactly where the problem lies IMHO : DE has chosen the easy way out so far. Instead of reworking the core of the game, they "fix" a thing here and there, until it inevitably breaks a few updates later. The devs need to get their heads together, and actually fix the game. Changing E.Blade equals to time wasted, it changes nothing. That's why I am against it, on pure principle. I want them to fix what's broken, not waste time and money breaking everything else to make it look like the core isn't, as they have done so far.

 

Look at the trial for instance. It's the perfect example of what's wrong with Warframe, it's a complete mess. It's CC everything or die. We don't fight, we just neutralize as many enemies as we can in sight and then it's a race to accomplish the objectives as fast as possible. It sucks, plain and simple. There is no challenge, there is no fun. It's dull, painfully so. People just go there because there's stuff that you won't find anywhere else. We don't play for fun, not even a little, we just play for loot. Once most players get the stuff they want, they never touch it again, because there is no fun in running that content again. I know the same can be said for other games, and I know loot is one of the cornerstones of this genre of game, but we're not talking about other games here, and the other cornerstone, the fun element, is just absent. I just want this game to get better, not sink into a pit of unfair, unfun and broken BS. And it's headed there faster and faster.

 

How can this game be ever balanced if there are TWO different games within the game? This is what's making frames, powers and weapons overpowered for leveled content and crap when endless scaling comes into play. That needs to change. This is what needs all the attention. Not one ability that will be broken soon enough anyway. First fix the core, then bring the frames, weapons and powers in line with it.

 

I know that's just my opinion, many will disagree. And I don't blame them. We all have different opinions and experiences of the game. But I see so many complaints about scaling and the mechanics added within the last 12 months, it's hard not to think I'm in the "right".

Oh! And hum... The poor guy has been bad for 2 years... can't we just let him bask in the sun just a little longer before we throw him back in the trash bin?^^'

 

To add to this, I managed to do a 40min T4 survival solo as Excal, and managed to stay in exalted blade for all but 2 instances, that of which being a nullifier sneaking up on me, and me falling into a pit. 

Max efficiency, even with a Blind Rage, is ridiculous on Excal.

What's your point? Any frame can do that. It's just a lot easier and/or less boring with some than with others.

Loki for instance. That guy is so "OP" he puts Excal to shame...

Edited July 13, 2015 by Marthrym

[Slaviar]

What's your point? Any frame can do that. It's just a lot easier and/or less boring with some than with others.

Loki for instance. That guy is so "OP" he puts Excal to shame...

This. Thousand times this.

[Jinryusai]

there is only 1 problem with projectile powers, and that is that the projectiles can damage and destroy Nullifier shields, which defeats the purpose of said unit

 

some people will rage that this is being brought up, but obvious bugs need to be fixed

Is this what you meant? Seems like it.

 

Remember, Excal has no other projectile which means he and nullifiers shall be at a stand still and you cannot equip guns either so you are stuck until EB has been deactivated and the time it takes to do that could mean death.

[nmuaddib]

 

To add to this, I managed to do a 40min T4 survival solo as Excal, and managed to stay in exalted blade for all but 2 instances, that of which being a nullifier sneaking up on me, and me falling into a pit. 

Max efficiency, even with a Blind Rage, is ridiculous on Excal.

 

 

So gentlemen, let me see If I get it:

 

- Let's tone down the damage. Depending on how much you do it, we go back to the state of inability to kill, at least within the time frame of a radial blind, so he is up for grabs to enemies, and we just continue to complain about not having good enough frames as usual, or worse, we go back to the mindless aimbots, and auto kill modes, because that is completely fine, Ash can kill at the one hour mark in T4 with his bladestorm, but if you go 40 min with Excal, well, that is ridiculous...

 

- Remove punch through... to what end? Why do we have to remove something than any weapon can have?

 

Please, I see you pointing fingers, but if you are not specific, is like saying any nerf will do, and that only tells me that you don't like it as a matter of preference, and it has nothing to do with balance.

 

But please, tell me what can he do that makes Warframe such an unbalanced game?

 

Is it that everyone only wants to play him? Not true, not even with me, this weekend I wanted to play in teams, so I did it with Frost, Nova and Vauban, and in most of the games (ODD, TDs of various levels) I hardly saw one single Excal.

 

Is he the new meta, something that takes the gameplay away from Warframe (like gmag, according to DE)? Not even close, he is good, but not even with Storm's ludicrous idea of a 180 degrees invincible turret he can be enployed like a meta.

 

So please, tell me what bothers you so much, and how to fix it, no half words.

 

4k damage waves at a rate of 2 per second, that have infinite punch through at 40m range, and let you be essentially invincible from 180 degrees ahead of you, for a duration of 1 minute without any mods for efficiency or either of the flows and ignore any energy drops. And in addition, a 1k radial damage blast every few kills.

 

 

Tell me who the hell plays like this?

 

edited for typos

Edited July 14, 2015 by nmuaddib

[Kappa64]

Tell me who the hell plays like this?

 

 

Every Excal player except you, apparently.

Have you even seen anyone else playing Excal lately?

[Jinryusai]

Every Excal player except you, apparently.

Have you even seen anyone else playing Excal lately?

Have you seen an Excal spamming Slash Dash and Blind along with EB??

Edited July 14, 2015 by Jinryusai

[kindablueish]

4k damage waves at a rate of 2 per second, that have infinite punch through at 40m range, and let you be essentially invincible from 180 degrees ahead of you, for a duration of 1 minute without any mods for efficiency or either of the flows and ignore any energy drops. And in addition, a 1k radial damage blast every few kills.

 

OH boohoo, 4k damage per wave at 2 per second, that's 8kdps, there' are tons of weapons/abilities that deal way more dps than that and are way easier to use, why not call to nerf those too(soma, boltor, pretty much everything that is popular, ability wise there's mesa 4, saryn 4, hell, even frost 4 can deal higher dps in a crowded situation, and many many many more)? Seeing how according to you, 8k dps for 40 meters is clearly too much damage for a game where enemies have infinite scaling and even at around lvl 40-50~ enemies start to have tens of thousands of effective hp if not hundreds of thousands. Also you are not invincible, if an excal is spamming waves he can't really block, and 90% of the times a player is in danger of dying it is not from bullets but rather from things that excal cannot block, things that have an AOE, such as bombard rockets, naplams, or those annoying infested units. Also you only get radial damage blast if you have the syndicate mod equipped on your melee weapon, not everyone have that, even less will actually use it on their build. 

[nmuaddib]

Every Excal player except you, apparently.

Have you even seen anyone else playing Excal lately?

 

For the past 2 weeks, except for this weekend, I played many different games like Excal. I must have come across about 10 different guys that were playing Excal as well, not even one played like that. Some were more EB dependent, some used all his powers, and evidently were a lot better, none behaved like a "stupid turret". And by the way, 40m does not kill many rooms away, that is BS, and the wave speed makes it unreliable at best for more than 10m. I went for times, using every ability but EB, just because I wanted to shoot stuff with my Braton, and his other powers alone make him a lot of fun for that. Still came on top on damage, 45%, if I recall correctly, saw others do the same.

 

You seem like the guy that saw one troll with a tonkor/valkyr/limbo, and suddenly all players that use this gear are trolls...

[Kappa64]

Have you seen an Excal spamming Slash Dash and Blind along with EB??

Yes.

Spams energy waves, and when those don't 1-shot, they blind and throw more waves.