This Chart Is Best To Say Melee And Power Do Never Be Op Or The Best Way To Kill

[StinkyPygmy]

Actually it's a "Extend speculation" which the statistics chart should be used, not just look in it and repeat wat's inside.

 

Exactly my point. 

Its "speculation"

Meaning it is purely a hypothesis and remains unproven.

Ergo, not factual. 

Thus, all this chart shows with certainty is what is being used the most.

From the statistics you believe this may show what is more effective or powerful.

It however is not conclusive evidence.

 

Correlation does not always equal causation.

[cary2010haha1]

Exactly my point. 

Its "speculation"

Meaning it is purely a hypothesis and remains unproven.

Ergo, not factual. 

Thus, all this chart shows with certainty is what is being used the most.

From the statistics you believe this may show what is more effective or powerful.

It however is not conclusive evidence.

 

Correlation does not always equal causation.

But if you only have this official proved evidence. Will the "speculation" be more reliability than just someone just speak by his own experience?

 

or next time we see someone said any thing is OP we just repeat these word? 

it is purely a hypothesis and remains unproven. it's only few case not every case?

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by cary2010haha1

[StinkyPygmy]

But if you only have this official proved evidence. Will the "speculation" be more reliability than just someone just speak by his own experience?

 

or next time we see someone said any thing is OP we just repeat these word? 

it is purely a hypothesis and remains unproven. it's only few case not every case?

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say.

My issue was that you are taking a vast number of weapons, powers, and skill levels, and using evidence that only shows what is most used, as factual and conclusive evidence that guns are undeniably more effective then melee/powers. 

The point is you are stating it as if it is a fact when it most definitely is not.

 

Eg. Lets say a lot of people drive a particular automatic car because it is objectively easier to use, however a manual in the same league as the automatic goes a lot faster and is more powerful when driven by someone with practice. A lot less people drive the manual because its not as easy to use.

 

In this insistence, which would you say is better? assuming the goal is speed.

Probably the manual, as its a lot faster.

 

The same applies here. Something being popular does not make it inherently the best. It could be more popular for a number of reasons, be that ease of use, price, effectiveness, accessibility etc.

 

I'll leave it at that.

[cary2010haha1]

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say.

My issue was that you are taking a vast number of weapons, powers, and skill levels, and using evidence that only shows what is most used, as factual and conclusive evidence that guns are undeniably more effective then melee/powers. 

The point is you are stating it as if it is a fact when it most definitely is not.

 

Eg. Lets say a lot of people drive a particular automatic car because it is objectively easier to use, however a manual in the same league as the automatic goes a lot faster and is more powerful when driven by someone with practice. A lot less people drive the manual because its not as easy to use.

 

In this insistence, which would you say is better? assuming the goal is speed.

Probably the manual, as its a lot faster.

 

The same applies here. Something being popular does not make it inherently the best. It could be more popular for a number of reasons, be that ease of use, price, effectiveness, accessibility etc.

 

I'll leave it at that.

Well...your sample is ....not so right.....just like you are comparing a low end  automatic car to a high end manual  gearbox car....

because as I know....the fastest m&#! production car in the world is "Bugatti Veyron", which have used a fully automatic mode to defeat F1 racer after it hits the max speed in that race(320km/h), actually with the computer tech we have human hand is no match to them, they can input fuel and balance the force the car really need to maintain the max speed in every second.

Bugatti Veyron can be driven in either semi-automatic or fully automatic mode *

 

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

so because not many people use melee only or because there are more people who are getting kills by other means. That meas that we should completely ignore a problem in the game and pretend its not there because "the stats say so"

 

Grade "A" logic here, moving on

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Bugatti Veyron can be driven in either semi-automatic or fully automatic mode *

 

lol if u buy a bugatti and u pick automatic ur a casual lmfao, no one spends that much money on a car and gets it in automatic

Edited July 16, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[rockscl]

so because not many people use melee only or because there are more people who are getting kills by other means. That meas that we should completely ignore a problem in the game and pretend its not there because "the stats say so"

 

Grade "A" logic here, moving on

 

the problem has been terribly described by the ones trying to expose it, no one has made a single shareable test about it, it all resumes to its op aimbot, if this was really reflected on results, DE would have seen in and nerfed as fast as they did with lex, cestras, tempo royale

[elele]

in PvP, no, it usually isn't.

as always, the M16A3 in Battlefield 3 was NOT the best Gun. it was just the easiest one to use.

there were a few other Assault Rifles that would absolutely stomp it if you were skilled. but they weren't as easy to use.

that's why that gun was popular, because it was super easy to use. it was not even close to being the best Weapon(freaking AN-94).

 

Haha you think Dice nerfed M16A3 simply for the lulz? 

 

"A select set of weapons have had their recoil adjusted based on joint community feedback and statistical analysis to provide greater balance in the weapon choices players make. Specifically, the M16A3 and M4A1 have increased recoil to make them less attractive in all situations. " 

 

Might have to look into a dictionary to understand what "attractive" means. 

 

Anyway, you should play more Warframe PVP so you don't have to talk about BF3 in WF forum.

Edited July 16, 2015 by elele

[taiiat]

M16A3 got balanced once

Anyway, you should play more Warframe PVP so you don't have to talk about BF3 in WF forum.

yes, it was. then people moved to the M416 because it was an M16A3 that was only slightly more difficult to use.

to make the best game, information from other games should be noted. it's either learn from other games, or do Trillions of dollars of Research yourself.

you pick.

Edit:

-snip-

the objectively most accurate guns in the world are Bench mounted guns made from custom parts that cost as much as a car in total.

using custom ammunition that's hand packed with a special powder formula that the shooter personally feels is better than any other existing formula.

but buying a gun at the Gun Shop at the end of the street is a lot cheaper and easier, and it's pretty accurate too.

military, "enough" firepower and more attention to reliability

hah. actually no.

Military chooses Equipment based on manunfacturing costs. whatever does a decent job and is also extremely cheap. the less it costs, the better it is.

you may ask a Marine how much he likes his M4. and the answer is kind've sort've. given the opportunity though, is pretty likely to sling it over his back and pick up the Kalashnikova from who he just shot and use that instead, because it's more reliable for Killing people.

and when he gets to a Rank where he's allowed to request new Equipment, he will immediately put in a request for a 1911 to replace his M9 with. because it's more reliable for Killing (and is in large enough supply that he'll actually get it. there's better Weapons, but if it's too special snowflake he'll be told to piss off).

Edited July 16, 2015 by taiiat

[rockscl]

you dont even play pvp in wf, and all you are doing is talking about battlefield, you should at least try the things you are talking about, dont you think its a basic thing after like half a year of cc2.0???

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

it all resumes to its op aimbot, if this was really reflected on results

because it is,

Edited July 16, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[-Vane-]

It is hillarious how you first say that PvP has no place in Warframe and yet are active in PvP sub-section of this forum.

[rockscl]

because it is,

 

as long as your only evidence is your word nothing will change

[cary2010haha1]

hah. actually no.

Military chooses Equipment based on manunfacturing costs. whatever does a decent job and is also extremely cheap. the less it costs, the better it is.

you may ask a Marine how much he likes his M4. and the answer is kind've sort've. given the opportunity though, is pretty likely to sling it over his back and pick up the Kalashnikova from who he just shot and use that instead, because it's more reliable for Killing people.

and when he gets to a Rank where he's allowed to request new Equipment, he will immediately put in a request for a 1911 to replace his M9 with. because it's more reliable for Killing (and is in large enough supply that he'll actually get it. there's better Weapons, but if it's too special snowflake he'll be told to piss off).

 

 

hah, actually is you making a wrong compare, we are not taking about format weapon. Most M4 use in US army is because they forced to.

In the chart DE posted, is everyone;s free will and own choice.

no one is forced to use exca from the start, and no one is allow to use boltor prime from the start, these choice are players balance all the fact of the frame/ weapon and made, powerful + easy to control.

 

Good or best have many different explanation to different ppl, and I believe it always the number of large if everyone is free to choice with enough information 

 

 

And plz, 1911 is only a  "Status symbol"  try it yourself and you'll know M9 is still a alot better choice. 

[cary2010haha1]

It is hillarious how you first say that PvP has no place in Warframe and yet are active in PvP sub-section of this forum.

you should see clearly what i said, I said WF PVP have no place in WF PVE, so I reject everything in PVP if they affect the PVE, like the DS war because they affected the PVE node control. 

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

as long as your only evidence is your word nothing will change

sigh

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wakYUyQbtfk

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

 

And plz, 1911 is only a  "Status symbol"  try it yourself and you'll know M9 is still a alot better choice. 

Duz yous shoots its sidewayz

Edited July 17, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[taiiat]

Good or best have many different explanation to different ppl

And plz, 1911 is only a "Status symbol" try it yourself and you'll know M9 is still a alot better choice.

in PvP games, the best is whatever is statistically the most effective. whatever Kills the fastest.

but the most popular item will be what's easiest to use.

no. 9x19 is a horrible cartridge because it lacks almost any stopping power. that's why .45 ACP was designed in the first place, the Military got tired of Soldiers complaining that they shot someone several times and he stood back up.

the M9 is a good pistol, but it's Cartridge is suicide in Combat.

Marines know this. they fill out a Requisition form for a 1911 because it's cheap and easily available, and has the Cartridge they're looking for. it's also very reliable, just like the M9 is, so it's all good. and then they have the stopping power to Kill whoever is pointing a gun at them.

.45 ACP is definitely a tortise of a Cartridge, it goes damn slow, but .45 ACP Hollow Point can Kill with a single hit through light cover. even at 100 Meters(so WAYYYYYY out of Pistol Range), it will punch clean through any sheet of Plywood and still have way more force left over to Kill.

Military must use FMJ ofcourse, which has even better penetration capabilities. meaning if someone was actually wearing Body Armor, their Pistol would be able to either crack ribs or pierce it.

[rockscl]

sigh

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wakYUyQbtfk

this just proves that you dont have any concern about balance, standing next to a full melee player with a sniper and expecting him to not destroy you, the melee user is in his role, and you are either a sitting duck or a walking cow in the entire video, really is that evidence? evidence of what?, its even worst considering that you edited the video, thus you selected the "best examples", and in every one of those you didnt even try to play a sniper´s role, i even remember each one of your deaths there:

 

1 you took and arrow and furax nuzzled your 18ish hp left

2 you walk and reload while hes killing you, wtf

3 you try to fight back, even if you hitd him you had no time to kill him because he was channeling the whole time, he had more than 25 energy as he kept channeling after the 3rd hit

4 you counter attack with a quick melee bo prime, what you expected, to stick it into his eye for 4x damage?

Edited July 17, 2015 by rockscl

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

this just proves that you dont have any concern about balance, standing next to a full melee player with a sniper and expecting him to not destroy you, the melee user is in his role, and you are either a sitting duck or a walking cow in the entire video, really is that evidence? evidence of what?

bruh i was minding my own business and i got stunlocked, if thats "balanced" in a mobility centric game then I have no idea what to tell you. Like do i have to spoon feed you clips of spammers? And you have seen me in game I move a lot.

 

#我不明白

Edited July 17, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[elele]

bruh i was minding my own business and i got stunlocked, if thats "balanced" in a mobility centric game then I have no idea what to tell you. Like do i have to spoon feed you clips of spammers? And you have seen me in game I move a lot.

 

#我不明白

 

Sometimes I wonder how many chinese guys are arguing in english on this forum ...

[cary2010haha1]

Sometimes I wonder how many chinese guys are arguing in english on this forum ...

Don't forget you are one of them :P the market of chinese is too huge

[rockscl]

 

can MM get kills without aiming?, yes/no, you have to aim in order to start tracking, and the track is lost soon as the target makes any fast movement, watch from 0 to 50

 

can you kill a Furax+MM who had the initiation?, jump to 1:00 <-- btw 1st hit deals the entire damage before vex armor procs, as in breaks shields + hurts hp before vex armor works, unwanted behaviour DE?

 

Is furax OP? you would need to test it against burst cqc weapons, not daikyus, vectis, bo primes, but dex dakra, boar, sybaris, tonfas, also, you would have to compare its ttk

Edited July 17, 2015 by rockscl

[Danfu]

But you see most player complaint about Melee and #4 spam.

which is not the most easiest effective way to kill, and this chart told it

 

 

by DE

Most of the kills with boltor prime/mk1 braton/braton prime is noob on noob action. All the top 3 weapons have low rank requirement with Boltor Prime being the highest at rank 2 (which is stupid considering Boltor Prime being one of the best weapons in the game) and high dps (noobs don't move around much). Since noobs are probably around 75% of conclave players and experienced players are 25%, it's bound to be at the top. Its the same reason why Slash Dash was the most cast first ability(the sheer number of noobs playing excal and slash dashing, most of the time missing) It also helped that Slash Dash was the best 1 skill at all times, especially near the time of Excalibur's rework (Radial Javelin was 3rd best ult skill behind Overload and Avalanche).

 

 

-The reason why Strun Wraith is here is because this chart was probably created before it's nerf, and it was released in an event recently, making it available to the 75% of noobs that don't have it.

 

- Weapons like Daikyu are used mainly by the 25% of experienced players, which is why it's so low, but still on the list (Same with MK1 Paris, except noobs may get lucky with it because of it's faster firerate).

 

- Melee is also usually only used effectively by mid/high experienced users (noobs tend to just keep hitting air while eating lead) , which is why there are almost no melee weapons except Skana (because of the sheer number of noobs) Kogake (because it's easy to kill noobs with it) and Dex Dakra (Anniversary event made it easily available and it's easy to kill slow people with it).

 

Boar Prime is there because its one of the main weapons experienced players who don't like single shot weapons use (that, Boltor Prime and Braton Prime, which noobs use as well leading those two weapons to be in the top 3)

.

-

 

 

 

- As I said before, the only reason Excalibur and Slash Dash are the top is because so many people use him as he is the face of Warframe and the main starter frame. Shock is obviously second because Volt is also a starter frame (plus Volt Prime was on Prime Access at that time), followed by Rhino Prime (do you see the trend of popular Warframes with low requirements at the top?) Mag/Prime isn't there because Pull is almost useless now, and she is deadly indirectly.

 

 

- In the end what im saying is a lot of people say melee and abilities are overpowered because it's the main threat experienced players face (for example, Kogake is always hard to get away from, for both experienced players and noobs), and when a noob goes against mid/high experienced players and gets destroyed by melee/ability spam, they say it's overpowered because they are used to being killed by primary weapons by other noobs (and sometimes experienced players) 

Edited July 17, 2015 by Danfu

[-Vane-]

you should see clearly what i said, I said WF PVP have no place in WF PVE, so I reject everything in PVP if they affect the PVE, like the DS war because they affected the PVE node control.

Yeah but... That's not what you said... Not even close.