Whats Wrong With The Grind?

[paolike]

 I come from a generation that is not scared to work to get what we want, I also am a decendant of arcade cabinet fighers,

 If you are lazy and do not care to grind, simply do not play the game, go play something like..scrabble or something :P

 

Hi mister. While I do respect your generation of arcade something, time's changed. Just because our generation doesn't fit what you were used to, you cant tell us to stop playing. And please there is no generation of "working hard to get what we want".  I played for 3 months and bought plat to rush my frames and weapons. I don't like the grind, removing coptering and slowing the run speed of frames would make it worse. Grinding a minimum of 40 minutes per run would bore the hell out of me for a 3rd person action game. 

 

PS. I'd like to send an sms or email to my friends instead of sending a snail mail like in the 80's. 

[MagPrime]

-snip-

 

PS. I'd like to send an sms or email to my friends instead of sending a snail mail like in the 80's. 

...there's something neat about a hand written letter.  And 'snail mail' was a thing all the way up into the 2000's.

 

kids these days

[(PSN)silent9_]

Grinding can be fun, with the right group, but toss RNG in there and you just have insanity, frustration and the beginnings of rage.

 

I'm only 27 but, I remember the arcade games and waiting in line to play them.  My first play station was an Atari that I had to share with my siblings and neighbor kids.  That is a lot of time waiting for someone to die so I can play.  Err, finish...

 

The grind isn't the issue, I have no problem playing for hours to work towards a reward but it's the RNG that is the problem.  I've spent hours replaying Nightmares for Animal Instinct, Void missions for Carrier Prime and Ash Prime.  If it was just pure grind, then I'd have them already but, with RNG in there...

Thank you, people do not seem to realize that even then in the arcade or playing doom whatever..there may not have been grind for gear..but the grind to patiently wait, play fail, wait play fail, enough to get good enough to compete with the real competition.  I too do not mind farming for something I really want, if I can't get it for a certain amount of time, i'll either buy it, trade for it, or usually someone in my clan or something will give it to me..I lucked up..got carpace 2nd try, the head piece 1st try, blueprint, 2nd try and I bought the system. ^_^ anyway cheers to you sir as we are apart of the forgotten golden age of gaming.

[sylanna]

The main difference between Warframe and say Diablo-like games is the progression. Warframe doesn't have a linear progression, but a repetitive one. In ARPG X you find something for your level, use it and it is good. In Warframe you find something and level it x times, until it is good. Leveling sucks in Warframe.

 

The loot distribution is also a problem. When you find something in ARPG X, you use it. When you find something in Warframe, it is in your inventory until you find all parts.

[Lichcontract]

I feel like they need to add the mission crafting in a past devstream properly(god damn pls no RNG for the freaking chance to reduce RNG) so that you can make there less RNG in the game. After running a hundred nightmare missions(around 113 but who's counting ;_;) to get Armored Agility without having it drop once, it hurts.

[(PSN)silent9_]

Hi mister. While I do respect your generation of arcade something, time's changed. Just because our generation doesn't fit what you were used to, you cant tell us to stop playing. And please there is no generation of "working hard to get what we want".  I played for 3 months and bought plat to rush my frames and weapons. I don't like the grind, removing coptering and slowing the run speed of frames would make it worse. Grinding a minimum of 40 minutes per run would bore the hell out of me for a 3rd person action game. 

 

PS. I'd like to send an sms or email to my friends instead of sending a snail mail like in the 80's. 

I understand times have changed, i'm an graphic designer and have extensive background in the computer field.  I am very caught up with technology.  There was/is a generation before mine and some of mine that had higher work ethic, one easy example is bc of technology itself, since you want to use your sms remark. It has made people lazy, people do not go outside anymore, social media makes people less social in real life..nobody can remember phone numbers anymore..nobody can remember directions thanks to gps. etc. I am not telling young people to stop playing because of generation gap...or age..i'm telling people who specifically complain and cry and troll bc they are not getting something they want, wasting energy and time on something that makes the game better IMO. Anyone used to playing any kind of MMO, or simply grinding to be able to play better in COD, MKX, Warframe etc..can respect grinding.  IMO, the "Grind" in warframe honestly isn't that bad to me..maybe bc I used snail mail in the 80's to send messages? 

[KiteoHatto]

The big difference in those games is that you grind for a reason, to progress. In Warframe you do it, because well.. this is the game. All of those grind were relatively fun and rewarding. Here? Not so much it's more gambling than grinding anyways.

Erm...the only difference between diablo and warframe is the camera angle, same for borderlands. They are all classic dungeon crawlers just with different camera angle. The loot mechanics and gameplay are all the same.(you go into an instance and farm for loot, rinse and repeat)

 

Maybe you are just seeing warframe as something that it's not ?

Edited July 17, 2015 by kiteohatto

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

I hate the RNG but I will agree with what you said.  I sold a scindo p blade and handle for around 35 plat which bought me my soma p receiver.

 

You really ripped someone's eyes out on that trade though.  Greedy pull = 10-15p, thermite rounds = 10p.... at the very most that should have been 40p total.  This kind of thing is what drives people AWAY from trade chat and makes everything you mentioned in your post harder to do.

 

If DE really wanted to "fix" things easily they could make a real trading platform similar to what GW2 or other games have.

Most of what I sell is what ppl offer, I rarely set prices. Greedy Pull has went up from 15p b/c ppl are trying to hurry and farm with Gmag while they can. If someone pm's me and says hey I'll give you 25p for that mod, am I going to turn that down? That's the free market, if you're patient you can get great deals.

I've also cut many ppl amazing deals, I just sold a Frost Prime set for 45p last week to a newer player b/c it sucks they can't farm it. So it all comes full circle in the market.

[(PSN)silent9_]

Most of what I sell is what ppl offer, I rarely set prices. Greedy Pull has went up from 15p b/c ppl are trying to hurry and farm with Gmag while they can. If someone pm's me and says hey I'll give you 25p for that mod, am I going to turn that down? That's the free market, if you're patient you can get great deals.

I've also cut many ppl amazing deals, I just sold a Frost Prime set for 45p last week to a newer player b/c it sucks they can't farm it. So it all comes full circle in the market.

Agreed.

[(XBOX)BLK THORN]

This game is not for everyone, especially those that hate RNG or excessive grind and grind walls because they no longer want it. However people who enjoy Warframe are mostly gamers who play and trade prime parts to get plat and buy stuff. Now after a long period of time this gets boring and older and newer gamers take a break or just move on because they need something outside of meaningless choice.

 

Warframe is a pretty good game that I enjoy a lot if I am looking to get a prime version of a favorite weapon in the void or a cool syndicate item from that next big event or update. However there are other MMO's that do reward players a lot more that may or may not be free to play and are more fun to play.

 

My issues with Warframe is the lack of content available that DE could put better rewards behind so that they could reduce some of the rng and the horrible bugs and nerfs. 

Edited July 17, 2015 by (XB1)BLK THORN

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

Erm...the only difference between diablo and warframe is the camera angle, same for borderlands. They are all classic dungeon crawlers just with different camera angle. The loot mechanics and gameplay are all the same.(you go into an instance and farm for loot, rinse and repeat)

 

Maybe you are just seeing warframe as something that it's not ?

This is so true, as someone with over 1000 hours in BL2, its just as grind heavy. Trying farm for the Norfleet was awful. Trying to get a gun with a 2% chance to drop, from an enemy that has a 5% chance to even spawn. Then you gotta try and get the element you want, then you gotta do it again in true and Ultimate vault hunter. Not to mention trying to get the prefixes you want on those rare guns.

Still remember getting my Unkempt Harold finally, only to see it wasn't a double penetrating prefix. Ever throw away a gun you spent 20 hrs trying to get, b/c it didn't have the best prefix? It wasn't enough in BL2 to get a legendary, you had to farm the correct version of those legendaries.

[Yezzik]

RNG isn't grind. That's the problem.

You could put a trillion hours into this game, but because they weren't the "right" hours, you get nothing.

[(PSN)silent9_]

RNG isn't grind. That's the problem.

You could put a trillion hours into this game, but because they weren't the "right" hours, you get nothing.

I agree RNG can be pretty discouraging, but I think that maybe DE is well aware of the drop chances, but in turn this allows trade and player to player communication/stimulation in the overall economy that is Warframe.

[sylanna]

I agree RNG can be pretty discouraging, but I think that maybe DE is well aware of the drop chances, but in turn this allows trade and player to player communication/stimulation in the overall economy that is Warframe.

Other games have trade too. So that's not really a point in favor of Warframe. They just started making pure cosmetic purchases and maybe they can shift their business model over to that. If the revenue is big enough, they can start adjusting drop rates. There are good examples of games that survive solely by selling cosmetics. I think that will never happen to Warframe though.

[Zafarrancho]

Erm...the only difference between diablo and warframe is the camera angle, same for borderlands. They are all classic dungeon crawlers just with different camera angle. The loot mechanics and gameplay are all the same.(you go into an instance and farm for loot, rinse and repeat)

 

Maybe you are just seeing warframe as something that it's not ?

 

I had more fun grinding stupid weapons in BLands, idk. While its true that these games are pretty similar, going the F2P route influences the grind a lot.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Zafarrancho

[Wereduck_of_Arrakis]

First againnnnnnnnnn i realize sometimes getting 1 part can take an insane amount of time.  I am not talking about those who have those issues, im talking about those who do not even try and complain with their palms facing upward.  I also get frustrated with spending way too much time to get 1 thing, but I dont sit up here or in game and B!t#H and moan you know? I am not talking about someone that works hard plays the game hard to get nothing.  Im talking about those that do not work to get what they want but complain and cry constantly without trying to exhaust all possible means of obtaining what you want ie. trade & clan/alliance help.  If I offended you by generalizing the term lazy, then I apologize.  To me ..the only reason why anyone would be offended and have so much hostility towards me by my opinion/remark is bc ..THEY most likely are one of the people I am referring to.. who do nothing and expect things to be handed.

Ah, I see. You're doubling-down on your strawman/ad-hominem with a no-true-scottsman.

Talk about lazy.

[MagPrime]

Ah, I see. You're doubling-down on your strawman/ad-hominem with a no-true-scottsman.

Talk about lazy.

wat

[TheBrsrkr]

It's a bit too much grind for what you get out of it.

To elaborate, take the game I'm playing right now Cruz my internet sucks, borderlands 2. You don't have a guaranteed chance of getting ANYTHING. However, when you do get something, it's always good in some form or fashion, even if it's just fodder to sell for cash. You can do something with it. Different enemies can give you better chances at getting better stuff at increased difficulty. Loot, loot and more loot, but you never really get tired of farming because it's all useful. Warframe doesn't have that. You have the resource, or you don't. The 50,000 Salvage you got while looking for that resource is useless to you now. You don't have THAT. Nothing else can be comparable to or replace it, it has to be that specific thing. Unlike in Borderlands where I might not get the extra special sniper rifle I'm farming, I can get 4 or 5 other weapons that I might use, maybe even another sniper rifle to tide me over. In Warframe, if you don't get the part, that's it. The other thing you got is completely irrelevant, unless you were looking for that too. Though Borderlands is more loot based than Warframe, Warframe is also loot based to an extent, and does not provide as many ways to use what we actually got from grinding besides the thing that we wanted.

Edited July 17, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ NOAMUTH - he is referring to the Scotsmans Fallacy I believe.

[MagPrime]

@ NOAMUTH - he is referring to the Scotsmans Fallacy I believe.

 

 

wat

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

You can Google it if you'd like. If you don't care to Google it then it wasn't worth your time to understand in the first place lol

Edited July 17, 2015 by (XB1)Lorewalker1022

[(PSN)edubluvpack]

Makes me cringe every time I hear someone say it took weeks or months to get a certain part. If you've been playing that long then you should have plat to spend by now. RNG bites me every once in a while for a certain part. So what do I do? Buy it. Trade chat tab is your friend.

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

It's a bit too much grind for what you get out of it.

To elaborate, take the game I'm playing right now Cruz my internet sucks, borderlands 2. You don't have a guaranteed chance of getting ANYTHING. However, when you do get something, it's always good in some form or fashion, even if it's just fodder to sell for cash. You can do something with it. Different enemies can give you better chances at getting better stuff at increased difficulty. Loot, loot and more loot, but you never really get tired of farming because it's all useful. Warframe doesn't have that. You have the resource, or you don't. The 50,000 Salvage you got while looking for that resource is useless to you now. You don't have THAT. Nothing else can be comparable to or replace it, it has to be that specific thing. Unlike in Borderlands where I might not get the extra special sniper rifle I'm farming, I can get 4 or 5 other weapons that I might use, maybe even another sniper rifle to tide me over. In Warframe, if you don't get the part, that's it. The other thing you got is completely irrelevant, unless you were looking for that too. Though Borderlands is more loot based than Warframe, Warframe is also loot based to an extent, and does not provide as many ways to use what we actually got from grinding besides the thing that we wanted.

Unless you're on your first play through 95% of guns in BL2 are useless. Cash serves no purpose as there's nothing to spend it on, the added currencies suck b/c the guns you can buy with them suck. On Ultimate Vault Hunter, anything that's not a unique is pretty useless. Even most of the legendaries become useless, as the game gets so hard you're pretty much forced to use certain builds. That game was known for having cheap bosses that forced many to use exploits to beat them.

I'd really like to see you play consistently well on OP levels with green or blue guns.

Borderlands 1 was just as bad, you'd find 1 gun that would be better than every other for entire play through. Crawmerax was stupid hard, and of the 500 times I fought him, I only 2 pearl weapons.

The Presequel was the worst, as they removed boss farming, so if you killed that boss, and got no drop, you just had to try again next play through. Luckily, a future patch fixed this, but still, it was too late.

Edited July 17, 2015 by (PS4)GbHaseo

[KiteoHatto]

It's a bit too much grind for what you get out of it.

To elaborate, take the game I'm playing right now Cruz my internet sucks, borderlands 2. You don't have a guaranteed chance of getting ANYTHING. However, when you do get something, it's always good in some form or fashion, even if it's just fodder to sell for cash. You can do something with it. Different enemies can give you better chances at getting better stuff at increased difficulty. Loot, loot and more loot, but you never really get tired of farming because it's all useful. Warframe doesn't have that. You have the resource, or you don't. The 50,000 Salvage you got while looking for that resource is useless to you now. You don't have THAT. Nothing else can be comparable to or replace it, it has to be that specific thing. Unlike in Borderlands where I might not get the extra special sniper rifle I'm farming, I can get 4 or 5 other weapons that I might use, maybe even another sniper rifle to tide me over. In Warframe, if you don't get the part, that's it. The other thing you got is completely irrelevant, unless you were looking for that too. Though Borderlands is more loot based than Warframe, Warframe is also loot based to an extent, and does not provide as many ways to use what we actually got from grinding besides the thing that we wanted.

How far into Bl2 are you...?

 

Have you farmed for norfleet yet via trying to spawn voracidous ?

Have you grinded enough torgue tokens yet for DPUH ?

Have you even gotten to UVHM or OP1-8 levels yet ?

 

The grind in BL2 is far worse because you can't keep your weapons always updated unless you use a save editor, but thats pretty much cheating. The damage difference in later levels is HUGE, you need to farm for the right prefix, right element and you better damn hope that it comes with a good weapon parts. It's not even minmaxing at that point, you need those perfect rolls to actually kill stuff before it kills you(and it will, unless you healthgate abuse).

 

Diablo is also pretty bad, you need set items to make progress in that game. 5/6 and 6/6 set is all the difference between impossible t6 and cheesed t6, nevermind high Greater rifts. I've put maybe around 600 hours into this season and i still don't have that damn unique bow for my demon hunter, im stuck using an inferior set and cant progress until RNG smiles and drops the damn Kridershot. So im forced to just farm and farm and farm hoping that the thing drops or someone is kind enough to give me their extra. Hell, i'd be happy to even get my hands on a normal version, nevermind the ancient prefix with the right bonuses on it.

 

Warframe farming isn't nearly as bad as these 2 games, because items(prime frames/sentinels/prime weps) are hardly necessities but more of quality of life improvements, unless you are absolutely trying to push w/e it is to it's max potential, in which case you should have accepted the fact that you need to work for it.

Edited July 17, 2015 by kiteohatto

[Yezzik]

Warframe farming isn't nearly as bad as these 2 games.

 

And?

It's still bad and in desperate need of fixing.