vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It was a reply to the statement that the animation is the last thing the game needs. People on the contrary ask for casting times or cooldowns of abilitys. Bladestorm has a casting time. It's the only ultime that doesn't fall in the spam 4 to win cluster since it's impossible to spam it. You can recast it but recasting is not spaming. What you don't like is the ideal for many players. It has a casting time AND it rewards you for playing. Not recasting but actually playing makes it stronger. That's the point you choose to ignore. I'm not talking about melee gameplay, spamming, anything like that. I'm talking about the ability itself. If you're going to accuse me of missing the point, at least pretend to read my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Sooo... "i didn't read your post" cause i didn't @(*()$ doublequote you? You don't like beein stuck in the animation. The majority doesn't like spamming. People even complain about forms. (Excal, valkyr) What could be the solution for the situation in generall? Deleting all the ultimates? Not liking it is no problem with a ability but a personal oppinion and bs is the solution for most complains in the first place. If your gameplay consists of watching a animation then you're doing it wrong. It's easy as that. You shouldn't have a problem if this isn't the case. Edited July 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Sooo... "i didn't read your post" cause i didn't @(*()$ doublequote you? You don't like beein stuck in the animation. The majority doesn't like spamming. People even complain about forms. (Excal, valkyr) Ehat could be the solition for the situation in generall? Deleting all the ultimates? If your gameplay consists of watching a animation then you're doing it wrong. It's easy as that. You shouldn't have a problem of this isn't the case. What are you even arguing about? Remove all ultimates? I'm not talking about spamming. I'm not talking about my gameplay. I'm not talking about the circumstances that lead up to you using the ability. I'm not talking about other frames. I am talking about Bladestorm alone. That's it. Just the one ability. The ability that slaps the controls out of your hands, and rewards you for watching the game play itself. That one, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 What are you even arguing about? Remove all ultimates? I'm not talking about spamming. I'm not talking about my gameplay. I'm not talking about the circumstances that lead up to you using the ability. I'm not talking about other frames. I am talking about Bladestorm alone. That's it. Just the one ability. The ability that slaps the controls out of your hands, and rewards you for watching the game play itself. That one, Did you think that you're the first one complaining about anything in this game? Any solutions you could suggest would lead to problems for other players. It's a personal oppinion at the end of the day. Not a issue with the ability. Did a edit btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Did you think that you're the first one complaining about anything in this game? Any solutions you could suggest would lead to problems for other players. It's a personal oppinion at the end of the day. Not a issue with the ability. Did a edit btw. Yeah, and that edit (and this post) are both prime examples of that original self-defeating argument you opened with. What I'm saying is an opinion. So is what OP said, and so is what you're saying. The difference is that I'm backing up my opinion, and the only defense you're able to muster for yours is "well, that's just your opinion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The ability itself is flawless. *effective without lvl or fraction influence *Dmg without dps, meaning it's strong without beein overpowered. *Works with the kit *->Rewards you for playing the game. Don't like, don't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 *->Rewards you for playing the game. Except you're not even playing the game while you use it. Please, tell me what part of Bladestorm involves you playing the game? And don't bother telling me about building up your melee counter or something like that, because that's not part of the ability. All you can say for the rest is that it does damage. Not exactly high praise. Don't like, don't play. This has never, ever been a valid argument. It's what's known as a false dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yeah, and that edit (and this post) are both prime examples of that original self-defeating argument you opened with. What I'm saying is an opinion. So is what OP said, and so is what you're saying. The difference is that I'm backing up my opinion, and the only defense you're able to muster for yours is "well, that's just your opinion". Yeah right. BullS#&$. You're simply selling your own oppinion as problem by stating the obvious. But why exactly is the execution a bad thing when litteraly 90% of the community keeps asking for more abilitys like bs. Abilitys you can't spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Except you're not even playing the game while you use it. Please, tell me what part of Bladestorm involves you playing the game? And don't bother telling me about building up your melee counter or something like that, because that's not part of the ability. All you can say for the rest is that it does damage. Not exactly high praise. This has never, ever been a valid argument. It's what's known as a false dilemma. Does a mesa play the game when she's stuck in her ultimate? A saryn that does NOTHING but nuking? Bladestorm gives you something for not spamming it. It IS part of the ability at the point where it makes the ability stronger. Edited July 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Yeah right. BullS#&$. You're simply selling your own oppinion as problem by stating the obvious. ...which is the exact same thing the OP is doing? And you? And every other player offering feedback on this forum? And do you have any support for that whole "90% of the playerbase wants more abilities like bladestorm" thing, or are you just making up statistics? Does a mesa play the game when she's stuck in ultimate? A saryn that does NOTHING but nuking? Bladestorm gives you something for not spamming it. It IS part of the ability at the point where it makes the ability stronger. Go read any thread on Mesa or Saryn for my feelings on those frames. This isn't a thread about Mesa or Saryn though. And hey, if we'd like to talk about what the playerbase wants, the most common Mesa suggestion is letting her use her Regulators Exalted Blade-style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) ...which is the exact same thing the OP is doing? And you? And every other player offering feedback on this forum? And do you have any support for that whole "90% of the playerbase wants more abilities like bladestorm" thing, or are you just making up statistics? Go read any thread on Mesa or Saryn for my feelings on those frames. This isn't a thread about Mesa or Saryn though. And hey, if we'd like to talk about what the playerbase wants, the most common Mesa suggestion is letting her use her Regulators Exalted Blade-style. The totallity of the forum is more then enough proof. Feel free to read trough hundrets of complains and attempts to change the power system and to add cooldowns or casting times.We are talking about a power in a game where ash isn't the only frame with a power. Comparing it to other powers is therefore quite legit. Good or bad are personal oppinions to begin with. Something can only be better or worse then something. And bladestorm is by far the best cast ability. Not by itself but in comparance to other abilitys, by *not beein spamable, and actually *rewarding you for not spamming it, while *beein pretty strong by itself. Edited July 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The totallity of the forum is more then enough proof. Feel free to read trough hundrets of complains and attempts to change the power system and to add cooldowns or casting times. No, I'd actually like you to show me. Not about cooldowns, not about changing the power system, show me a post that wants more abilities like Bladestorm. That specifically. Once more: I am not talking about spamming. I am talking about Bladestorm in a vacuum. Good or bad are personal oppinions to begin with. Something can only be better or worse then something. And bladestorm is by far the best cast ability. By what metric is it the best ability? Whose opinion is the most important? Apparently yours, because you're more than happy to dismiss my opinions with "that's just an opinion" but your opinions are repeated like fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripletriple Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ash teleport really needs to be free teleport with restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) No, I'd actually like you to show me. Not about cooldowns, not about changing the power system, show me a post that wants more abilities like Bladestorm. That specifically. Once more: I am not talking about spamming. I am talking about Bladestorm in a vacuum. By what metric is it the best ability? Whose opinion is the most important? Apparently yours, because you're more than happy to dismiss my opinions with "that's just an opinion" but your opinions are repeated like fact. I'm not the one who tries to keep the discussion focused on the ability alone.Once again *It is the only cast ability that rewards you for playing the game. *It is the only cast ability that stays viable in the late endgame *Stong offensive and defensive aspect for using it *Works with ash's whole kit I ask you again and expect a answer at this point: is there any other frame that offers that much with focus on a ae ability? Edited July 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Once again *It is the only cast ability that rewards you for playing the game. *It is the only cast ability that stays viable in the late endgame *Stong offensive and defensive aspect for using it *Works with ash's whole kit I ask you again and expect a answer at this point: is there any other frame that offers that much with focus on a ae ability? How about we stop beating around the bush. None of your endless series of points actually have anything to do with Bladestorm. The "playing the game" you mention occurs before you even use the ability. Whether it's viable in the endgame or not is meaningless, I've already said there's nothing wrong with how strong it is. I'll say this one more time: I am not talking about anything other than the mechanics of Bladestorm itself. Please read and comprehend that. And now tell me this: Is having control over your own game avatar a good thing in a game like Warframe? Should skill be rewarded? Feel free to not answer those. If you don't, it can be assumed you have nothing of importance to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripletriple Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 How about we stop beating around the bush. None of your endless series of points actually have anything to do with Bladestorm. The "playing the game" you mention occurs before you even use the ability. Whether it's viable in the endgame or not is meaningless, I've already said there's nothing wrong with how strong it is. I'll say this one more time: I am not talking about anything other than the mechanics of Bladestorm itself. Please read and comprehend that. And now tell me this: Is having control over your own game avatar a good thing in a game like Warframe? Should skill be rewarded? Feel free to not answer those. If you don't, it can be assumed you have nothing of importance to say. I got to agree with you on this one. Blade Storm needs to change. For the better I hope. Watching a cutscene is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragazer Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 How about we stop beating around the bush. None of your endless series of points actually have anything to do with Bladestorm. The "playing the game" you mention occurs before you even use the ability. Whether it's viable in the endgame or not is meaningless, I've already said there's nothing wrong with how strong it is. I'll say this one more time: I am not talking about anything other than the mechanics of Bladestorm itself. Please read and comprehend that. And now tell me this: Is having control over your own game avatar a good thing in a game like Warframe? Should skill be rewarded? Feel free to not answer those. If you don't, it can be assumed you have nothing of importance to say. Like it or not, the combo counter is a part of blade storm mechanics. And yes Blade storm rewards skill. Stated many times over an over, you are rewarded for keeping your combo counter high when you Blade storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Like it or not, the combo counter is a part of blade storm mechanics. And yes Blade storm rewards skill. Stated many times over an over, you are rewarded for keeping your combo counter high when you Blade storm. I really feel like a broken record here. I wish I didn't have to keep repeating myself. The combo counter/spamming/player behavior/literally anything other than Bladestorm is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Bladestorm. Any building of the combo counter takes place before you even press the button to cast the ability. I'm talking about what happens after you press that button. The actual ability itself. Bladestorm does not reward skill any more than watching a movie rewards skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) I really feel like a broken record here. I wish I didn't have to keep repeating myself. The combo counter/spamming/player behavior/literally anything other than Bladestorm is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Bladestorm. Any building of the combo counter takes place before you even press the button to cast the ability. I'm talking about what happens after you press that button. The actual ability itself. Bladestorm does not reward skill any more than watching a movie rewards skill. You also get a combo counter after you press the button. And you didn't answer but choose to avoid it so you officially lost the argument.Now do us a favor and keep your personal oppinion to yourself. Or at least stop trying to sell it as anything else. -Personal oppinions are not issues- Edited July 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Now do us a favor and keep your personal oppinion to yourself. Or at least stop trying to sell it as anything else. -Personal oppinions are not issues- Please do me a favor and attack the OP with that same line then? Because he's doing the exact same thing I'm doing, and so are you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Please do me a favor and attack the OP with that same line then? Because he's doing the exact same thing I'm doing, and so are you. The difference is that i am not looking at the ability seperately. It's good-compared to other abilitys. It works with a playstyle far from p4tw - It is in fact the only damaging ae ability that does. You can cast it from afar - what gives you the tactical advantage to fight at multiple fronts. And it has no real falloff, ignoring armor and shields- there again, exclusive. And the high dmg actually makes up for the missing burst dps compared to other abilitys. The ability is fine as it is. It works and has a synergy with his set and playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 The difference is that i am not looking at the ability seperately. No, what you're doing is saying that my opinion doesn't matter because it's an opinion, but hypocritically ignoring the fact that if opinions don't matter then mine is just as valid as yours. Also, for the last time: I'm not talking about anything that takes place before you press 4 to cast Bladestorm, I'm not talking about how strong it is, I'm not talking about anything (seriously, read that word) other than the fact that Bladestorm reduces player input to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) No, what you're doing is saying that my opinion doesn't matter because it's an opinion, but hypocritically ignoring the fact that if opinions don't matter then mine is just as valid as yours. Also, for the last time: I'm not talking about anything that takes place before you press 4 to cast Bladestorm, I'm not talking about how strong it is, I'm not talking about anything (seriously, read that word) other than the fact that Bladestorm reduces player input to zero. His actuall playstyle isn't only pressing a button. There is a before and after. It benefits from and needs it for higher lvls. You can't ignore something absolutely viable just because you feel like it.Hypocracy would be giving my own standpoint more weight on the same base. Thing is, i actually see it as totall, compared to other abilitys. It performs different, different is not bad. Different simply has to work. What you say is basicly that you don't like trucks cause they are slow. They are not as fast as cars (p4 vs animation). Thing is, a truck has a lot more horses on a way higher mass whats basicly the purpose (finisher dmg + bleeding proccs + playstyle influence - heavy dmg). The stronger thing on the same base would be overpowered as hell. -It has it's purpose and it works.- Edited July 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 His actuall playstyle isn't only pressing a button. There is a before and after. It benefits from and needs it for higher lvls. You can't ignore something absolutely viable just because you feel like it. Hypocracy would be giving my own standpoint more weight on the same base. Thing is, i actually see it as totall, compared to other abilitys. It performs different, different is not bad. Different simply has to work. What you say is basicly that you don't like trucks cause they are slow. They are not as fast as cars. Thing is, a truck has a lot more horses and a purpose. The stronger thing on the same base would be overpowered as hell. -It has it's purpose and it works.- I'm trying so hard not to get angry right now it's actually crazy. Your analogy demonstrating what I'm saying is wrong. It's not even what I'm talking about. This is a video game, not real life. I'm not talking about the viability of Bladestorm. Holy crap, just read that sentence a thousand more times. I can't think of a way to express any clearer than this what I'm saying, the viability of Bladestorm has nothing to do with my criticisms of it. Stop talking about viability! It is absolutely irrelevant to what we're talking about. Bladestorm takes control away from the player to a degree even radial nukes do not. It totally locks you out of your controls, and rewards you for watching a cutscene with huge damage and invulnerability frames. These things are facts, they cannot be disputed. My opinion is that Bladestorm is a poorly designed ability because of this. This opinion is supported by DE's actions regarding player control and rewarding skill. They are moving towards a more interactive game that rewards you for skilled interaction, and if that's the game they wish to create then Bladestorm is deserving of a rework. I can't tell if you're purposely ignoring my points as a tactic, or you genuinely don't understand what I'm trying to say. If it's the latter, I hope I've made it as clear as possible here. If it's the former, please don't even bother responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) I'm trying so hard not to get angry right now it's actually crazy. Your analogy demonstrating what I'm saying is wrong. It's not even what I'm talking about. This is a video game, not real life. I'm not talking about the viability of Bladestorm. Holy crap, just read that sentence a thousand more times. I can't think of a way to express any clearer than this what I'm saying, the viability of Bladestorm has nothing to do with my criticisms of it. Stop talking about viability! It is absolutely irrelevant to what we're talking about. Bladestorm takes control away from the player to a degree even radial nukes do not. It totally locks you out of your controls, and rewards you for watching a cutscene with huge damage and invulnerability frames. These things are facts, they cannot be disputed. My opinion is that Bladestorm is a poorly designed ability because of this. This opinion is supported by DE's actions regarding player control and rewarding skill. They are moving towards a more interactive game that rewards you for skilled interaction, and if that's the game they wish to create then Bladestorm is deserving of a rework. I can't tell if you're purposely ignoring my points as a tactic, or you genuinely don't understand what I'm trying to say. If it's the latter, I hope I've made it as clear as possible here. If it's the former, please don't even bother responding. All the comparing had a reason ya know.It has finisher damage, bleeding proccs and it scales. Take a moment and immagine bs beein a spamable ability or a form. It would render evry other dmg frame useless. The animation keeps you from spamming it or doing anything else. This is a measure to keep it from litteraly breaking the game. A strong engine on a truck works. A strong engine in a normal vehicle makes evry other vehicle seem useless. Would you pick a bmw over a ferrari if both take the same effort to get? Stuff like "more interaction" would be nothing but a placebo. The only possible solution for a change would be a complete redesign on different elements. The reason beein nothing else but your own selfish oppinion. -He works as dmg frame on this base with a much higher limit then any other frame. He offers viable dmg troughout any mission, on evry lvl. Changing it would break him as dmg frame and bring him down to what evry other dmg frame without CC is on higher lvls. Useless. Why would you do that? -simply changing the execution would make him overpowered af. So, what is it you recommend? Breaking the game? Ruining him? Thats the 2 options that actually exist. Edited July 19, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now