Camping -- How To Get Players To Stop Being Cub Scouts And Go Be Space Ninjas

[Phatose]

This isn't real life or other games.  That would work if you could move the pod or if there were set choke points where you could cut the enemies off from getting to the pod.

 

But as it stands, spreading away from the pod is like asking to fail.  This becomes even more apparent when you start to analyze frame ability uses.  STanding by the pod, especially inside a bubble, is the optimal place to defend from i

 

All true - and all of it something I think should change.

 

You're absolutely right that camping is encouraged by DE through their entire design.  That's what I want changed.   I don't blame players for doing that - with the way the game is designed, they'd be crazy not too.

 

Which means I'd be crazy not to do it as well - even though it's kind of dull.  I blame DE for designing it that way, and I'm asking for them to change it. 

[Wargasm_v2.X]

While I applaud any call for getting the Space Ninja back in the game instead of the pre-dominant Press 4 to Win and camping meta "cuz farming" you're not going to get much support in the forums. 

 

If people who insist that there's nothing wrong with camping, or Press 4 to Win, or that balance shouldn't matter in a PvE game were REALLY honest it's because they don't want to be inconvenienced by actual gameplay.

 

I would be tempted to call it lazy but we can call it efficiency as that seems to be the more acceptable buzzword. 

[SickoSike]

I would be tempted to call it lazy but we can call it efficiency as that seems to be the more acceptable buzzword. 

i will be upfront about it, including Steve's very own words. ''Homer's drinking bird should not be playing this game for you.''

in other words... Lazy man's game.

 

Edited July 28, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[(XBOX)LordPuck]

If you have to defend a pod, which will cause and instant mission fail if destroyed, then you should be close to it. If a bubble is up then it is stupid not to stand inside of it.

 

The mission type is built to promote camping.

 

This isn't real life or other games.  That would work if you could move the pod or if there were set choke points where you could cut the enemies off from getting to the pod.

 

But as it stands, spreading away from the pod is like asking to fail.  This becomes even more apparent when you start to analyze frame ability uses.  STanding by the pod, especially inside a bubble, is the optimal place to defend from in WF.

Yes, AI are programmed to go after the pod. Yes AI will shoot at you. Yes AI will hit the pod more often if youre near the pod. In essence, it the fault of both players and DE.

 

Players should be intercepting AI away from the pod. This is a standard tactic in life and videogames.

DE should redesign the void defense areas to provide better choke points. Something that will make the lasers and Mirages Sleight of Hand, more usefull.

 

That's not innate to the goal - It's very common in gaming (and military history) to have a defense take place as far away from the item being protected as possible.  Any tower defense game will show that - defending something doesn't require being right on top of it, and it's usually preferable to defend further away if at all possible.

 

it's a consequence of multiple level of design choices, and with a few select changes that can changes drastically.  It's not simply 'defense means camping'.  It's "When you don't have any reason ever consider not being right on top of the target, you won't"

Edited July 29, 2015 by (XB1)LordPuck

[Scar.Heart]

i will be upfront about it, including Steve's very own words. ''Homer's drinking bird should not be playing this game for you.''

in other words... Lazy man's game.

 

I apologize for gettin' in the middle of this debate, but I felt this needed to be emphasized.

While I agree with Steve's quote, the fact of the matter is that DE made the game this way.

DE made the Press-4-to-win frames.

DE made the terrible loot system for lockers and chests.

DE made the only viable rewards come from hording kills.

DE takes a good portion of the blame for the playerbase adapting a "lazy man's game" mindset.

However...

If De stops making Nuke-the-room frames, we can start moving forward.

If DE revamps the loot found in chests and lockers, we will start to explore.

If DE encourages movement, the players will experiment and make more diverse strategies.

DE had a hand in the cause of the "lazy man's game" mentality, and DE is the one that can fix it.

We've given them all kinds of feedback throughout time. Now it just depends on which ones they're willing to listen to.

We don't ever need to discourage one type of gameplay. DE just needs to show us there's more than one way to gain a reward worth the time and effort.

[Fifield]

DE made the game this way.

 

Commented on this earlier:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/494645-camping-how-to-get-players-to-stop-being-cub-scouts-and-go-be-space-ninjas/page-4#entry5555702

[Fifield]

Bumping because of DE's nerf of Life Support Drops today.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Bumping because of DE's nerf of Life Support Drops today.

The nerf is just going to make camping even more desirable. Instead of running all over, diluting spawns, and spreading out the enemies, people will benefit more from camping in a corner, killing the enemies all in one place, and having a Nekros spam desecrate.

[Fifield]

 

The nerf is just going to make camping even more desirable. Instead of running all over, diluting spawns, and spreading out the enemies, people will benefit more from camping in a corner, killing the enemies all in one place, and having a Nekros spam desecrate.

 

Not necessarily.

 

Camping was already prone to either RNG-induced shortage of Life Support drops or Nekros failing to press 3 enough, particularly in the first 20 mins.  Today's nerf will of course exacerbate this.

 

After 40 mins, Life Support was never a problem.  Is the nerf enough to make it a problem?  I suspect so.

If so, this increased reliance on Loki making trips to capsules may make camping less desirable.

If not, then you're correct.

 

It's a shame that DE didn't read this thread first as either suggestion is better than what they've done.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Fifield

[Omnimorph]

There's nothing wrong with camping if you want efficiency.  Camping is also fun when you get a team synergy going.

 

There's nothing wrong with running around like ninjas either, if you enjoy that feeling of immersion.

 

The key to all these problems arising from preferences is TALK TO EACH OTHER BEFOREHAND.  There's a chat system for a reason, and a squad tab for a reason.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Fifield]

Camping is anti-immersive and thus bad game design.  It's also why we have the rotation rather than progressively better rewards.

I warned everyone that a nerf was coming and DE put in a bad fix.  I just hope they're listening to the right people now.