Flowen231 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) You don't HAVE TO force anything, just let people know that you don't want to camp when you form a party, and if they don't agree, find someone else. Literally, just go into recruiting and say "Hosting __________ no camp" or "Looking For ___________ no camp", it's not rocket science. And yes, while DE may verbally agree with you, they keep implementing changes, adding grind walls, and bullS#&$ RNG, all of which encourage camping. And at the same time they are not alleviating any of the enraging elements in their game that promote camping. If they designed the game to be rewarding the way they wish people played it, then nobody would camp. Also, FYI, I don't like camping. I avoid camping like the plague because it's so @(*()$ boring. But just because I don't like to play like that, doesn't mean others share the opinion, and I'm not going to go out of my way to try to change the whole game when I can avoid camping by just typing a few words to my party, something i suggest you try out for yourself. Edited July 24, 2015 by [DE]Danielle Removed hidden post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RafaelFuchs Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) 1.) It's funny, I don't remember DE featuring camping on the DevStream or PrimeTime LOL 2.) DE have imposed many changes to enforce a more fun, more space-ninja-like gameplay. One in particular, the AFK measure seems to be influenced by camping. Additionally, direct quote of PM from [DE] Rebecca: "Endless missions pose a pretty crazy problem for us to solve". 3.) If I'm somehow misinterpreting that, then you guys needn't worry. If I'm correct about it, then I'm potentially helping everyone with a better solution than what DE might have otherwise implemented. 2.) Most of the major changes I've seen don't actually do a thing to camping. AFK timer? Do a little dance every minute or so. Nerf to greedy pull? That augment was a whole mess of problems that weren't probably thought of when they first made it. In my opinion, Rebecca is probably referring to the whole fact that their system isn't rated for anything past level 70 before it goes down the tubes and enemies start to ramp at an out of control speed. check the wiki for how nicely the enemies are scaled at 1-70 and then the sudden hike. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Enemy_Level_Scaling Again, they may verbally agree with you, but they have yet to do a thing that shows they actually mean it. They've done the exact opposite actually. Mesa was introduced when I'm sure they knew what that ultimate could do. there's no way they couldn't have known... you're locked down in place and yet, they want to promote run & gun style in the game. Edited July 24, 2015 by [DE]Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifield Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) And yes, while DE may verbally agree with you, they keep implementing changes, adding grind walls, bullS#&$ RNG, and they are not alleviating any of the enraging elements in their game that promotes camping. If they designed the game to be rewarding the way they wish people played it, then nobody would camp. Players camp for one reason: to drop Prime parts. The RNG argument is really overblown. Yes it can be super annoying with non-Prime frames. But with Prime stuff, nobody is so unlucky that they'll drop forma all the time. Sooner or later they'll drop something that can be sold and then they can buy whatever they're actually looking for. Grindwalls are real. They exist in almost every online PvE game albeit are more prevalent in some than others. I've been playing online computer games for about eight years and I've not seen any other developer put out half the content that DE does. So the alternative to grindwalls is letting players get the stuff quicker, which means they have no more reason to play. The alternative to grindwalls is game over. Now, the other reason why the RNG argument is mostly BS is that you can simply buy plat with real money. You're complaining that DE want to take away an embarrassing gameplay mode that nobody's going to miss... in a game you're not even paying for. Edited July 24, 2015 by [DE]Danielle Removed provoking comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) snip 1) Yes, the RNG is that bad, look up people who post the results of their run. 2) Camping is not embarrassing, it is literally the best suited playstyle for efficient farming, and it's DE's fault that things are that way. Combine that with the fact that they only add more RNG, and needs to grind, and it's a no brainer what's going to happen. 3) About your very rude bold comment, notice how literally none of your posts have any upvotes, and how virtually everyone else's posts who disagree with you on this thread do. Some of those people (myself included) may not care if camping is gone, but we all generally agree that your idea of shoehorning it out for no reason other than "boo hoo I don't like it" is stupid. Edited July 24, 2015 by Flowen231 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnell Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 "Camping" in game is born from some silly old code of honor back in the day with shooters. Since warframe is a team game against bots who dont care how you play, why is it an issue? The devs will tinker with it if people exploit things. Not because people are bored with being in a tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimonoki_Ryuji Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The people who don't like camping. Go into the recruiting chat, invite someone, find out he's a camper, say you'd rather play the game, get yelled at. With such an attitude, of course you will. Everyone, who runs these missions, play the damn game, but they do it differently. If you don't like it, just leave and get into another team. Everyone, who has this "nerf this frame, nerf that gameplay" mindset, must understand, that as long as the droptables are utter crap and the RNG is infuriating, NOTHING shall change. People shall always find a lootcave and find the most effective way of farming it. The moral is, make the game actually rewarding. Make lots of side objectives, that encourage players to move around. Make map exploration worth it, satan dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMAsterDan Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Make lots of side objectives, that encourage players to move around. Make map exploration worth it, satan dammit. maybe have Orokin Caches (like the ones in Tower Sabotage missions) spawn in a semi-random location every 5 minutes to get players running around. While a cache is active, the timer stops but life support keeps draining. Optimal strategy would be to split up and search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sunnyxtreme83 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) As above people should stop complaining about camping. If u want to stop people u should ask DE to make the drops better. Super players when they waste their whole keys to farm ash prime system like me MR19. Other players getting them before u real force the desperation of need to take some what "conquere the problem" with the experience of 92days of gameplay. They want to have max out of the key then they have. whats wrong with it ??? Oh r u the guys complaining about camping buying the prime accesses ?? Coz that way u cant feel pain of a farmer. ash prime system and blueprint after 20 days of the update didnt saw dropped single time for me. Thx to my clan mates who gift me those parts. so better dont be "over genious" and let us play the game. Edited July 24, 2015 by (PS4)sunnyxtreme83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The reality is that no-one has presented a single good argument against this idea. It's all "nooooo pls don't take my boring farm mode away". I believe that I presented one good argument against the idea. You don't HAVE TO force anything, just let people know that you don't want to camp when you form a party, and if they don't agree, find someone else. Literally, just go into recruiting and say "Hosting __________ no camp" or "Looking For ___________ no camp", it's not rocket science. Anywhoo, carry on with your topic, good luck lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifield Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I believe that I presented one good argument against the idea. You don't HAVE TO force anything, just let people know that you don't want to camp when you form a party, and if they don't agree, find someone else. Literally, just go into recruiting and say "Hosting __________ no camp" or "Looking For ___________ no camp", it's not rocket science. So what you're saying is, DE shouldn't get to decide how their game that you're playing for free works, they should simply say "no camp" in the Recruitment channel? Now do you see why this is a hilariously bad argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar.Heart Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The moral is, make the game actually rewarding. Make lots of side objectives, that encourage players to move around. Make map exploration worth it, satan dammit. This guy gets it. [WARNING! OPINION IN BOUND!!!] Everybody would be happy to explore these overly massive tile sets in places like Phobos or Earth if the reward was worth the god damned time and effort. I believe camping in WF has some relation to the pathetic excuses DE calls "rewards" for exploring the secrets of countless tile sets. If we know for a fact that all these lockers and chests contain nothing more than a few bundles of credits and ammo, why bother moving about? We know for a fact that the best rewards come from killing. And hey, what's the best way to horde those kills for a chance at those rewards? Camping. Why bother doing anything than nuking a room and sitting on our ! when we know for a fact that is the single best way to gain something decent? You don't have to nerf camping. You just need to buff the living hell out of exploring. Give us a positive reason to move, and we'll move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowen231 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) So what you're saying is, DE shouldn't get to decide how their game that you're playing for free works, they should simply say "no camp" in the Recruitment channel? Now do you see why this is a hilariously bad argument? That's the thing, they have been deciding how their game works, they have designed it from scratch, balanced it (although laughably) themselves, made every single tileset, programmed every mission mode, ect. Despite everything they say, they are the ones that made, and are increasingly making camping the ungodly viable strategy that it is now a days. The reason I think your argument is hilariously bad is because your entire basis for wanting camping gone is that you don't like it. And believe it or not, saying "no camp" works, and it works without stepping on anyone's toes. EDIT: also, the post above mine is pretty neat. EDIT: Just for clarification, I'm saying that YOU should say "no camp" in recruiting when you want to make a party. The way you worded your line was a bit weird. Edited July 24, 2015 by Flowen231 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifield Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Give us a positive reason to move, and we'll move. I think that could work. ^^ What you'd do is, roughly every 5 minutes, a miniboss 'spawns' in some part of the ship/map... that will drop the prime part. Everyone would have to pick it up but that's not exactly hard. It will have exactly the same effect as my suggestion so is no better. It's also about 10x harder to implement but I can add it to the 2nd comment if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 It's called nekros and gmag. Gmag can still pull life capsules and is great for camping. I don't bring loki into camping missions, vauban, nekros, gmag, bless trin, excal or pilfering hydroid and you're good to go. My point is op, your suggestion will not achieve anything. You don't even know all the go to strategies for camping to try and attempt to rid us of this "gaming style". There's nothing wrong with camping. The missions aren't fun till 40 minutes anyway because of the weaksauce. The first 40 minutes we're twirling our thumbs waiting for a challenge with our eyes closed. After the 40 minute mark even camping is fun because of the craziness that ensues, plus the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifield Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 You might want to read the suggestion again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RafaelFuchs Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) What you'd do is, roughly every 5 minutes, a mini-boss 'spawns' in some part of the ship/map... that will drop the prime part. Everyone would have to pick it up but that's not exactly hard. This is a cool idea. It would incentivise exploration. Well, i got cleaned. I guess I was a bit rude, but I digress. I still would like to know what in my posts have I gotten wrong. Edited July 24, 2015 by RafaelFuchs Cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Danielle Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This is a reminder to be respectful to one another. If you find a comment provoking please do not respond to it in the same tone. Either report it to the mods or reply constructively to prevent the thread from being derailed. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 How to stop: Make. Mobile. Modes. More. Vi-a-ble. Even the survival tile sets can be camped in. It's literally more effective than running around and the spots are usually better than defense missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RafaelFuchs Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) How to stop: Make. Mobile. Modes. More. Vi-a-ble. Even the survival tile sets can be camped in. It's literally more effective than running around and the spots are usually better than defense missions. I wouldn't consider it more effective up until about the 60m mark in any solar node plus t1-t3 and 40m mark in t4. You can very easily run around past those points too if you're squad is good. When I host, they're all run and gun unless i'm planning to go for over 60m. I also generally don't even want/need a nekros in group if they're just going to use nearly exclusively desecrate. ODS though... that needs to have a life support drop buff. Getting to 20m without running out is stupid. Edit: Oh, forgot about your first point. Yeah, none endless are very stationary aside from survival. They should make it so they have some decent rewards. Spy missions have the dual stat heat and cold mods for example. That gives people a reason to go play them and they also give you fairly good affinity if you do the mission correctly (stealthily). Edited July 25, 2015 by RafaelFuchs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifield Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Updated the first two posts with the miniboss drops idea.Probably nobody will bump the thread for me now. DE really need to redesign this forum...https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/444709-feedback-forums-are-not-fulfilling-their-purpose/#entry5501405 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 WRONG!!! If you want to get players to stop camping then stop making mission types that promote camping, PERIOD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Moving around like a bunch of headless chikens at these levels usually means dying. We camp because we HAVE TO. The day DE fixes the broken core of their game by kicking enemy scaling in the b@lls to make it FAIR and FUN instead of "you have to completely neutralize with CC and kill everything before a stray grunt two-shots YOU from halway around the level", then we actually will have the opportunity to play in a different way, one that promotes "ninja movement" instead of "turtle formation". We just do what works best after all. People say "weapons do too much damage". People say "we're too strong, nerf us". I say "Nerf this stupidely broken scaling, then put everything else in line with it, frames, powers, weapons". You can't hope to ever have a fair fight with an AI that has Godly reflexes and aim, Godly damage, and is omniscient (knows exactly where you are at all times). And also uses unfair, dirty and cheap mechanics. Edited July 26, 2015 by Marthrym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifield Posted July 26, 2015 Author Share Posted July 26, 2015 Moving around like a bunch of headless chikens at these levels usually means dying. We camp because we HAVE TO. Then just stay around for 40-60 mins instead of 2 hours and have fun doing something else with the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)LordPuck Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Option 2 + This guy gets it. [WARNING! OPINION IN BOUND!!!] Everybody would be happy to explore these overly massive tile sets in places like Phobos or Earth if the reward was worth the god damned time and effort. I believe camping in WF has some relation to the pathetic excuses DE calls "rewards" for exploring the secrets of countless tile sets. If we know for a fact that all these lockers and chests contain nothing more than a few bundles of credits and ammo, why bother moving about? We know for a fact that the best rewards come from killing. And hey, what's the best way to horde those kills for a chance at those rewards? Camping. Why bother doing anything than nuking a room and sitting on our ! when we know for a fact that is the single best way to gain something decent? You don't have to nerf camping. You just need to buff the living hell out of exploring. Give us a positive reason to move, and we'll move. What happens in most Rpgs? You fight a few mobs on yer way to the boss. Most of the time you have to fight a miniboss or 2 to get a (void?)key, to open the door(void portal?) to gain access to a boss. The minibosses sometimes have loot chests in addition to what they drop, same with bosses. Above and beyond the mini/boss aspect, dugeons do have loot chests that give Loot. Loot is armor, weapons etc. Health and Mana are consumables, not loot. These are still there but so is armor or weapons, even if DE were to break them into Rng dropsfrom treasure chests/t1-4 key needed locker/vault etc...... People like the rush of a boss fight then the additional rush/anticipation of "whats in that treasure chest" Edited July 26, 2015 by (XB1)LordPuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blast_Hardcheese Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) I'll quit camping when they start throwing all the brand new prime gear into Survival Rotation A and B and leave the vendor trash at Rotation C. Edited July 26, 2015 by Blast_Hardcheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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