H Draco, No Exploits, Just Play As It's Intended To Be Played

[Wotca]

I love playing Mesa on Draco.  Shatter Shield build with stagger augment makes it cake to run around and shrug off bullets with impunity.  Throw in a health restoring syndicate weapon and a Grace arcane for bonus easy points.  I'm not so great at standing still though.

[SickoSike]

All I have to say if you have time to look into this video, and trying to understand that the game needs to be fixed.

[Fifield]

^^ Really good for first 11 mins or so.

[Eyeless]

-snip-

Dare to not be a sheep and think outside your conditioning.  Play like a Tenno.  Play like a Warrior-God.

 

No one's doing Draco because they want to, or think it's the only way to play the game. 

 

We do it because normal affinity gains and standard mission play are simply abysmally slow. It's not enjoyment, it's a necessity for those that want to effectively level up an entire loadout. 

 

This is when someone or DE goes: But the fun of progression! 

 

But the fun of doing that potentially 600 times (literally!) with all the frames and weapons we have! Especially after affinity gain was -NERFED- in Update 14 with the debut of Mirage! 

 

Releveling weapons is a hassle in and of itself, it only enhances the gameplay in that we spend several hours with a gun we won't enjoy using until half the things we want can actually fit! (Assuming you use maxed mods) 

 

Forma / Mastery fodder is not fun. Grinding weapons, frames, Archwings, Kubrows, and Sentinels you never wanted to have simply to progress is not fun.  Not for me, not for many of my friends. 

 

It's why I've been such a hard advocate of providing alternate ways to eventually reach that MR30 without relying on mindless gear grinding. Kills, missions, events, alerts, achievements not tied to leveling varying classes of gear! 

 

This isn't mastery, it's brainlessly running around filling bars until you can either craft something shinier or your ePeen is sated so you can lord it over lobbies in recruiting.

 

It's no wonder so many MR 17+'s perform as well as spoiled cheese in higher level runs when the MR 7's and 8's have better heads on their shoulders! They haven't had their minds rotted by the simple task of repeatedly grinding to fill bars and still care about the gameplay! Whereas the higher ranked players forget about fun and don't bother putting thought into the game and thusly burn themselves out. 

 

 

It's called having a brain and using it.

 

playing efficient is not a exploit. Only having a brain and using it.

 

Tell me... What's so intelligent about standing in one spot and mindlessly mashing number keys 1-4? 

 

 

Team work. Working as intended.

 

Not good enough, if this is the only way DE can promote Teamplay, ie, by encouraging players to find ways to circumvent a monotonous and unrewarding leveling system then there's a definite problem. 

 

 

People making the best of their time isn't being a "sheep". Blame the game, not the player. I'd prefer playing varied non-endless missions using non-optimal equipment if it gave me the same rewards "cheesing" the game does.

 

 

Couldn't have put it more concisely, but I had things to say. 

[SickoSike]

-snip-

Totally agree with what you have to say, you understand the issues with this game.

[Feallike]

The DE could fix these in a day if they wanted to but it would cause HUGE backlash and extremely handicap regular play players.

 

Ways to fix exploits for all endless gamemodes easily, but handicap regular players:
 

Interception: Timer only moves if 3 points are capped, and their is a time limit every round that once reaches 0 will instantly fail the mission.
 

Survival: Life support drops despawn every 5 seconds, and Life support capsules despawn every 30 seconds.

 

Defense: Every Tenno near the defense object will cause its health to drain faster additive, and a timer on every round that once reaching 0 fails the mission if round isn't done fast enough.

 

 

^ Remember these are my ideas on how to fix all exploits in a day. This is to make a point that the DE are trying to fix exploits but are trying their dang hardest to not handicap regular play. Because do you see how easy it is to just simply fix these problems?

Edited July 29, 2015 by Feallike

[Marthrym]

More like sacrificing enjoyment for efficiency, but yeah no one's doing anything wrong here.

Very true, unfortunately...

[Davoodoo]

Using exploits you will get what?? 2-3k kills in these 4 rounds?? thats equivalent to 30 waves on void defense.

 

That amount of kills means more mods(if you farm any specific ones), more rare resources and huge amounts of exp which trinity frost and 4th can leech off.

 

The DE could fix these in a day if they wanted to but it would cause HUGE backlash and extremely handicap regular play players.

They could do it without handicapping regular players or making changes to frames.

 

Limit spawns per wave or send them in set intervals.

So instead of having constant flow of enemies you would at best kill 500 per wave or 100 per minute.

 

Fix is simple, didnt nerf anything and it doesnt affect any other mode and its effective, i can personally kill 50 enemies per minute using bow.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Marthrym]

to me that is an exploit, that's like saying I have a brain to know how to manipulate spawn waves for egate, yet even though I can kill thousand upon thousand of enemies, once I'm done doing so I can just do one extractor and extract with all my goodies is what you're saying, sadly it shouldn't fly with this community nor is that the way DE intended you to play interception mission.

Except they don't manipulate anything. they take full advantage of the tools at their disposal, without messing with the system itself. It's not great, but it works much better than doing things "DE's way". Which I don't really see to be honest...

 

If DE actually wanted things to be different, then they would have made things differently. They didn't. So yeah, it'll have to "fly", unless it changes. There's a reason people tend to do it the boring, efficient way. It's better than the slightly less boring, but much less efficient one. I know it's all subjective, but the fact that so many do the latter kinda backs up my opinion I'd say. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it mind you, far from that.

 

So unless DE can either find a super fun way that makes the efficient way irrelevant, or if they can mix both, I don't get why the players that do it the efficient way so they can enjoy what they actually like playing more should apologise or justify why they play the way they play. I mean what gives you the right to tell them how to play in the first place? How is your opinion, your way, better than theirs?^^'

Edited July 29, 2015 by Marthrym

[Davoodoo]

It's not an exploit.

You're not breaking any rule.

You're not using any bug, glitch, or broken part of the game.

You're optimizing the time you have to spend farming whatever it is you're farming.

 

It's called having a brain and using it.

Exploit is unforseen use of game mechanics, usually to achieve better results.

 

It doesnt need to be bug

And due to being unforseen there wont be any rule to break.

 

And yes having infinite energy is exploit, easy to foresee and stupid one but still an exploit.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Marthrym]

Exploit is unforseen use of game mechanics, usually to achieve better results.

 

It doesnt need to be bug

And due to being unforseen there wont be any rule to break.

 

And yes having infinite energy is exploit, easy to foresee and stupid one but still an exploit.

You don't really have "infinite" energy... You do "exploit" the mechanics. But what's wrong with that? It's not cheating, right? Or is it? I mean I know it can be a blurry line, but they're not using any trick that the game doesn't allow them to use normally, right? It's just optimized playing. Boring as Hek yes, but that's the price to pay for this efficiency. And like I said, if it allows the players to then play more what they consider fun on the side, is it really "wrong"? Isn't the fact that it has developped over time a tell that the problem comes from uphill? I remember how it was long ago. It wasn't like that. It changed because of how the game changed. Now it's out of control, yes, but it's like a perverse, side-effect, not the cause of all this.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Marthrym

[SickoSike]

Except they don't manipulate anything. they take full advantage of the tools at their disposal, without messing with the system itself. It's not great, but it works much better than doing things "DE's way". Which I don't really see to be honest...

An Exploit from what I said by no way means of any sort of rule breaking, you just stated what I was trying to say from the very first start, and thats taking FULL ADVANTAGE of the resources that are given to them to abuse a map tile that spawns endless amount of enemies that in the long run benefits you within a 20 minute time frame.

 

If DE actually wanted things to be different, then they would have made things differently. They didn't. So yeah, it'll have to "fly", unless it changes. There's a reason people tend to do it the boring, efficient way. It's better than the slightly less boring, but much less efficient one. I know it's all subjective, but the fact that so many do the latter kinda backs up my opinion I'd say. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it mind you, far from that.

It never flew when Excalibur was pressing his 4 abusing Draco, It never flew much when Greedy pull mag burned huge bush fires where everyone thought she was only useful for 1 ability on 1 augment mod, it's definitely not going to fly much longer with how players are just playing 1 map tile for ''maximum efficiency'' If you want to call it that way, but to many people and the matter of fact is, you could playing this game while watching a movie, why bother putting any sort of effort in the first place if all you do is press and mash a bunch of buttons in a center of the map and Alt tab to your other things. I call that lazy man's game.

 

So unless DE can either find a super fun way that makes the efficient way irrelevant, or if they can mix both, I don't get why the players that do it the efficient way so they can enjoy what they actually like playing more should apologise or justify why they play the way they play. I mean what gives you the right to tell them how to play in the first place? How is your opinion, your way, better than theirs?^^'

Just because your opinion, or another person's opinion supports the idea of lazy game play doesn't mean it outweighs my own opinion or others on how the game should be played in it's bad core play system and integrity of it as well, If you honestly think Draco should be allowed, and not fixed in any other way, I'm going to bring you some bad news then, The fix is gonna happen. You and I both know this. It happened to Vivergate, It happened to Egate and it's going to happen to Draco.

If you ever watched prime time 80, this prime time comically talks about the political idea of players playing the game, or ''efficiently'' trying to handle an objective which in my opinion, I thought Reb was better than that when she portrayed her efforts when playing with Megan, thankfully our Mommas made up in the end and it was fun watching them play this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvlwmZRakec

Edited July 29, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[Davoodoo]

You don't really have "infinite" energy... You do "exploit" the mechanics. But what's wrong with that? It's not cheating, right? Or is it? I mean I know it can be a blurry line, but they're not using any trick that the game doesn't allow them to use normally, right? It's just optimized playing. Boring as Hek yes, but that's the price to pay for this efficiency. And like I said, if it allows the players to then play more what they consider fun on the side, is it really "wrong"? Isn't the fact that it has developped over time a tell that the problem comes from uphill? I remember how it was long ago. It wasn't like that. It changed because of how the game changed. Now it's out of control, yes, but it's like a perverse, side-effect, not the cause of all this.

I consider it cheating, any esport tournament or league considers it cheating, any competetive community considers it cheating, most devs(not de) tries to get rid them from their game.

As far as im interested its cheating. though generally i tolerate cheaters in pve games i still try to avoid them and call them for what they are.

 

And as with everything devs take action, de for example lowered drop chances to the point where they can make it frustrating even for ppl who use exploits and everyone who doesnt want to exploit will never get anywhere in warframe. Fixing exploit would mean backlash, while lowering drop chances would have some backlash with part of community playing white knight defending company profits.

And whatever bullS#&$ starchart 3.0 is gonna bring it will surely be because of exploits and greed.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Davoodoo

[-dicht.Amducias-]

After taking part in one of many thousands of the daily 'exploits' using Mesa on Draco and stopping after 4 rounds, I wondered what was the point.

It's so easy to go 4 rounds anyway and it's a heck of a lot more fun than:

a) being Mesa who gets close to zero XP;

b) being Trinity who gets yelled at for either not having any enemies left to EV or not being in the SnowGlobe and trying to explain why between EVing enemies every 4s;

c) Frost who does little else than protect Mesa.

Yes, a 4th player can leech off them with some unranked warframe. Is that the point?

So I asked in Recruitment: "H Draco, no exploits, just play as it's intended to be played"

Really hard to get people, took about 10 mins using 2 continents. One kid raged and called us noobs for not using an exploit.

But we stomped Draco and had fun doing so.

Dare to not be a sheep and think outside your conditioning. Play like a Tenno. Play like a Warrior-God.

Well its not an exploit, you simply use abilities that synergize well, hmm why not Do to draco normally? Maybe because you get much exp from using mesa and maybe players just need to polarize 20 and more warframes up to 3 times because of the new utility slot they bring and still warframes level slow as F***?

[-dicht.Amducias-]

I have been pushing for that exploit to be fixed along with many other broken core game issues that's been dragged on for a long time.

If you have time to take a look, read this thread comment and support it so we can have everyone look into unhealthy game-play issues for it to be fixed.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/473228-revised-warframes-issue-farming-and-the-unhealthy-progression-of-this-game/

Want a cookie?

I guess u level ur warframes in ext missions hm?

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Well said sir, well said.

Sadly you will also get allot of hate by the real noob exploiters that will read this.

But hopefully someday these ppl will wake up, and start to have fun in warframe, that is a video game meant for entertainment and fun.

I for example have fun to play with perfected builds / max weapons and since i have to work i dont have that much time to level my gear as slow as u want us to do.. I think u are the noob here, didnt u ever wonder why only the ones against so called "exploits" offend the "exploiters" in an aggressive way and not the other way around? -.-'

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Just a general statement: This discussion is totally worthless.. there are 2 results possible when i read this here:

1. Removing Peacemaker from its current state.. cool, no problem i know enough other ways to kill even faster than mesa

2. Draco gets removed.. No problem either there a many other fitting maps

[SickoSike]

Want a cookie?

I guess u level ur warframes in ext missions hm?

I level my warframes in Defense missions.

Change that, obviously you don't have a cookie to actually give me, unless you actually have a damn cookie to hand me one with a nice glass of milk refrain from derailing this thread and putting your frustration on me. I want this game to be fixed.

Edited July 30, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[Davoodoo]

Just a general statement: This discussion is totally worthless.. there are 2 results possible when i read this here:

1. Removing Peacemaker from its current state.. cool, no problem i know enough other ways to kill even faster than mesa

2. Draco gets removed.. No problem either there a many other fitting maps

3.

They could do it without handicapping regular players or making changes to frames.

 

Limit spawns per wave or send them in set intervals.

So instead of having constant flow of enemies you would at best kill 500 per wave or 100 per minute.

 

Fix is simple, didnt nerf anything and it doesnt affect any other mode and its effective, i can personally kill 50 enemies per minute using bow.

 

4. You could rework energy

5. You could remove ev and energy restores.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Fifield]

Grineer waves/rounds provide significantly more XP than Corpus or Infested because of the increased incidence of medium and heavy troops... yet I doubt many think the difficulty is harder.

If the waves had fewer Grineer to balance the XP, orokin cell drops would also diminish and Draco would be far less worth exploiting.

[Davoodoo]

Grineer waves/rounds provide significantly more XP than Corpus or Infested because of the increased incidence of medium and heavy troops... yet I doubt many think the difficulty is harder.

If the waves had fewer Grineer to balance the XP, orokin cell drops would also diminish and Draco would be far less worth exploiting.

Due to how spawns work in interception every enemy unit killed is instantly replaced by new one.

 

You can have less units but it wont really change anything since killed units would be instantly replaced, getting rid of heavy units wouild reduce xp but drops would remain the same.

[FelisImpurrator]

playing efficient is not a exploit. Only having a brain and using it.

First off, you just copied that from two posts up.

 

Second, I didn't know it took a lot of brainpower to program a macro to press 4 for you, or to tape the LMB down while going off to make a sandwich.

 

-

 

As for actually fixing the problem, the short version?

 

1. Fix the exploitable game modes/frames (rework Peacemaker, Bladestorm, Miasma, etc to actually be interactive).

2. Rework XP gain everywhere else so an ext or a cap aren't completely worthless without taking a silencer and chaining stealth multipliers all day. Also probably tweak resource values for a more balanced spread of loot as opposed to getting a dozen Detonites to every Orokin Cell.

3. Make sure 1 and 2 happen at basically the same time.

4. ????

5. PROFIT!

[-dicht.Amducias-]

3.

4. You could rework energy

5. You could remove ev and energy restores.

Or you remove all warframes hm?

[geninrising]

After taking part in one of many thousands of the daily 'exploits' using Mesa on Draco and stopping after 4 rounds, I wondered what was the point.

 

It's so easy to go 4 rounds anyway and it's a heck of a lot more fun than:

a) being Mesa who gets close to zero XP;

b) being Trinity who gets yelled at for either not having any enemies left to EV or not being in the SnowGlobe and trying to explain why between EVing enemies every 4s;

c) Frost who does little else than protect Mesa.

 

Yes, a 4th player can leech off them with some unranked warframe.  Is that the point?

 

So I asked in Recruitment: "H Draco, no exploits, just play as it's intended to be played"

 

Really hard to get people,  took about 10 mins using 2 continents.  One kid raged and called us noobs for not using an exploit.

But we stomped Draco and had fun doing so.

Dare to not be a sheep and think outside your conditioning.  Play like a Tenno.  Play like a Warrior-God.

Hooah Tenno! Playing the game is the point. Exploiting the energy loophole(DE Steve's own words so GTFO) is one of the most ignorant things to ever be allowed in game and I will be thoroughly happy when Trinity gets reworked to end it. It will be coming folks as it is the only way to prevent players from removing all difficulty from most of the game. Ah so happy on that day, the Hype will be real!

Edited July 30, 2015 by geninrising

[Davoodoo]

Or you remove all warframes hm?

If you believe thats the best course of action yea sure probably could be done.