Excal Umbra Prime....musings.

[(PSN)ZammnZaddy]

Pretty sure I covered all that with "discarding the spirit of their agreement with the founders, and abiding only the letter", but thanks.

That said, you rather failed to mention anything showing you recognize why encouraging such behavior could be a problem.

 

 

Consider, for example, this not implausible move:  The new umbras come to the global build.  They can't be farmed, nor bought - the only way to acquire them is be a chinese founder who also plays the global build, and to enter your chinese citizen ID on a form on DE's webpage.  No one who isn't a chinese founder can acquire it.

 

Doesn't contradict anything the literal truth of anything, DE has ever said, just the spirit. (see https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/495235-changyou-warframe-images-faq/, note that it never speaks of being able to acquire these items.)

 

See why encouraging this behavior can be a problem for you personally? 

DE would lose A LOT of their players if they did that and they know it so i highly doubt that would be the case. Especially because the founders weren't able to transfer their excal prime to consoles.

Edited July 29, 2015 by (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000

[Phatose]

DE would lose A LOT of their players if they did that and they know it so i highly doubt that would be the case. Especially because the founders weren't able to transfer their excal prime to consoles.

 

And they might very well gain a whole lot of new ones in China, since it's showing the Chinese that they are a special market and are going to be treated as a special market.  DE was fairly clear the Chinese gaming business required exactly that - and it's a huge market.

 

Kind of beside the point though.  The central question is still "Are you still OK with it if they use literal interpretations like that?"

[Jinryusai]

Umm... WoW

 

It's apparent you feel rather strongly on this subject.

 

If it helps, I'd wager there are as many Founders who want to see a blinged-out version of Excalibur made available to all as there are those Founders that don't.

 

Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction though regardless...

 

A company uses the notion of a digital limited-time exclusive (can an oxymoron have an oxymoron?) and the bulk of the forums that cares about the issue chooses to vent their annoyance about it at the Founders instead of the company.

 

...And it's happened for years now. 

 

Roughly 7 out of 10 comments regarding Founders on these forums is derogatory and has been for years as well.

 

Many Founders have asked DE for years to create a new version, change the name and design of that frame and release it to the market... It's being done in China first instead. I don't question or even care why... I personally hoped it signaled an end to digital limited time exclusives.

 

Founders asked to make it tradeable...

Founders asked for a Blinged version to be made a skin...

 

IMO, I'd wager that most Founders have no more interest in the divisions than you do.

 

So with all due respect... I sure would appreciate it if you could pump your brakes on those "You Founders" comments.

...We aren't your enemy.

Then there are those whiny little *@##$es that want to gold bits removed because they are far too selfish to share the gold bits.

 

I want it and no one else can have it. MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!

 

NO TOUCHING!

 

"I want to flaunt my shiny exclusive toy in everyone faces  and say look what i have and make them jelly of me. While i say "you can't have it" in my head or out loud."

 

And they are the same scum that indulge in prime access with the same shiny frames available in the void as is. But they want to cling to some false founders promise...

 

Founders isn't about exclusivity, it's about getting a damn good deal on things available to you sooner rather than later.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jinryusai

[Rakosta_Kai]

Then there are those whiny little *@##$es that want to gold bits removed because they are far too selfish to share the gold bits.

 

I want it and no one else can have it. MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE!

 

NO TOUCHING!

 

"I want to flaunt my shiny exclusive toy in everyone faces  and say look what i have and make them jelly of me. While i say "you can't have it" in my head or out loud."

 

And they are the same scum that indulge in prime access with the same shiny frames available in the void as is. But they want to cling to some false founders promise...

 

Founders isn't about exclusivity, it's about getting a damn good deal on things available to you sooner rather than later.

 

You want to hear something funny?

 

I have never heard or seen a single Founder make a comment like that.

...Your Daffy Duck rendition or otherwise.

 

I've seen Founders cite fact...

I've seen Founders needle the posters who complain to Founders about how fair it isn't...

I've seen funny jpegs involving industrial sized gallons of tears....

 

I've also seen tons of players attack Founders just for being Founders....

I've seen Founders be belittled and berated in-game...

I've seen tons of players attack the Founders pack and ask that the items be made available in the Void...

I've seen tons of players attack Founders and the pack because of the mastery affinity, extra trades, and etc...

 

I'd assert that complaints at, about, or to Founders does absolutely nothing in the process... Insults accomplish even less.

 

If a body really had strongly held beliefs about the issue being unfair as opposed to merely disappointing.... That would be cause to send DE a letter directly.

That makes a lot more sense to me as opposed to attempting to guilt trip players who sunk money into the game when its' future was in question.

 

...That's just my opinion though.

[RFaul]

My only problem will be if they make this Umbra Excalibur Prime exclusive to China. That'll piss me off, because that'd mean that they're willing to offer an exclusive frame to China when they aren't willing to do the same for consoles. That'd be a double standard. If they make the Prime version (for now, I'm gonna assume there are too different versions, as a worst case scenario) exclusive to China, then imo, that's just pandering for the sake of money. So, I hope it's available to all.

 

As for a specifically-Founders issue, my problem is that they are willing to make a new primed version of an Excalibur variant, but won't take the time to update the models/textures of Prime frames like Excal Prime, Frost Prime, and Mag Prime. See the gold detail on Umbra Excalibur Prime (not talking about the gold crescents, but everything else on the body)? Excal Prime needs that, particularly the gold on his thighs and shoulder blades. Frost Prime needs more gold, and a better pattern, particularly on his torso. All three need more detailed textures (i.e. Excalibur Prime having detail on his helmet that lines his patterned lines - almost like lines etched into his helmet, or even gold lining those parts) and their patterns updated to be like the patterns of the other Primes. That's the main thing I want to see.

 

From what I've read that's what is going to happen. Umbra Excalibur Prime will be China exclusive just like Excalibur Prime is International Warframe Exclusive. Both sides will have their exclusive content for founders and no promises will be broken because they're different. What may come to International and China is Umbra Excalibur and whatever other Umbra frames DE creates. Other Umbra Primes, except Excalibur could also be introduced without breaking any promises.

 

The problem with redesigning Excalibur Prime is who is going to fund the work? New players who purchase platinum can trade for other Prime parts so any work done on improving any other frame is an investment but that's not the case regarding Excalibur Prime since it is exclusive and the company cannot recover the expenses. 

Edited July 29, 2015 by RFaul

[OniDax]

Isn't updating the model agaimst the promises? They said they wouldn't *reskin*, rename or rerelease Excalibur Prime. And thats why they stated they aren't doing it?

 

I don't think they said that. Rereleasing him as a skin or with a different name, they certainly won't do. But updating his model isn't a violation of their promises.

 

Also, why does DE need special funding to reskin Excalibur Prime? Did they need special funding to come out with a new Warframe? And if they can spend the time to make more unnecessary Warframes and weapons, why can't they take the tiem to update the visuals of three frames?

Edited July 30, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[Phatose]

From what I've read that's what is going to happen. Umbra Excalibur Prime will be China exclusive just like Excalibur Prime is International Warframe Exclusive. Both sides will have their exclusive content for founders and no promises will be broken because they're different. What may come to International and China is Umbra Excalibur and whatever other Umbra frames DE creates. Other Umbra Primes, except Excalibur could also be introduced without breaking any promises.

 

The problem with redesigning Excalibur Prime is who is going to fund the work? New players who purchase platinum can trade for other Prime parts so any work done on improving any other frame is an investment but that's not the case regarding Excalibur Prime since it is exclusive and the company cannot recover the expenses. 

 

Direct funding like you're looking for just isn't the way this business model functions.  The recent rework of excalibur is an example - it's not directly causing anyone to spend money.  DE literally gives out that frame for free, both through farming, and directly as a started frame.

 

The value is extracted through increased perceived value of the other things they sell, and the effect on future sales.  In this case there are 2 easily spotted avenues by which it could do this. First, reassurance that DE doesn't abandon older items increases the perceived value of current prime access items.   Secondly,and this would require checking DE's sales records, it creates goodwill among existing customers who've already demonstrated their willingness to spend money.  A reasonable check on value would be to compare founders sales figures, not including the founders package themselves versus non-founders.  Goodwill among previous customers is a valuable commodity for any company.

[(PSN)abb12355]

My only problem will be if they make this Umbra Excalibur Prime exclusive to China. That'll piss me off, because that'd mean that they're willing to offer an exclusive frame to China when they aren't willing to do the same for consoles. That'd be a double standard. If they make the Prime version (for now, I'm gonna assume there are too different versions, as a worst case scenario) exclusive to China, then imo, that's just pandering for the sake of money. So, I hope it's available to all.

As for a specifically-Founders issue, my problem is that they are willing to make a new primed version of an Excalibur variant, but won't take the time to update the models/textures of Prime frames like Excal Prime, Frost Prime, and Mag Prime. See the gold detail on Umbra Excalibur Prime (not talking about the gold crescents, but everything else on the body)? Excal Prime needs that, particularly the gold on his thighs and shoulder blades. Frost Prime needs more gold, and a better pattern, particularly on his torso. All three need more detailed textures (i.e. Excalibur Prime having detail on his helmet that lines his patterned lines - almost like lines etched into his helmet, or even gold lining those parts) and their patterns updated to be like the patterns of the other Primes. That's the main thing I want to see.

Antoine I dont think they can rework Excal p design. People bought the founders pack for 2 reasons, they wanted to support warframe or liked the way Excalibur p looked. If they change the look, they will make other founders angry, you're not the only founder.

Some people like it, some people hate it.

DE can't please everyone, can they?

Plus- when's the last time they changed a look of a warframe anyway?

[Bitle]

Pretty sure I covered all that with "discarding the spirit of their agreement with the founders, and abiding only the letter", but thanks.

That said, you rather failed to mention anything showing you recognize why encouraging such behavior could be a problem.

 

 

Consider, for example, this not implausible move:  The new umbras come to the global build.  They can't be farmed, nor bought - the only way to acquire them is be a chinese founder who also plays the global build, and to enter your chinese citizen ID on a form on DE's webpage.  No one who isn't a chinese founder can acquire it.

 

Doesn't contradict anything the literal truth of anything, DE has ever said, just the spirit. (see https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/495235-changyou-warframe-images-faq/, note that it never speaks of being able to acquire these items.)

 

See why encouraging this behavior can be a problem for you personally? 

alright.....i actually see the pint of what your saying here....and alas for slight pang of jealousy....but betraying the spirit of things does make sense there

[Bitle]

as far as this opening another founder / non founder salvo (err sorry about that) ....personally i (As much as i wish other wise) understand letting founders keep what they payed for and were promised....if i had the money at the time i would have liked (Even then) to buy a mid level founder pack.....but

 

what actually bothers me a little is i feel the larger community is locked out of the slight power increase for a frame (excal) for the foreseeable future because excal prime is locked and until this umbra fiasco launched i didn't see much hope for any way around that. that and the mastery rank is a little miffing but not to big a deal.

 

and by that i mean....how newer primes tend to have a slight stat increase over the basics.

 

the swag is being addressed with things like skins, but that feel of i have the pinnacle of my favorite frame (like frost players finialy unlock their frost prime...etc etc) is a bit walled off if your a excal main. /shrug

[(PSN)StillbornKumquat]

Also I'm going to say it, because i know im not the only one. But you founders have exclusive access to EXCALIBUR PRIME. That's it. NOT to the whole over arching damn frame and any and all content related to said frame. You only have say over you founder pack. Not Prima Excalibur, not umbra Excalibur, nor Umbra Excalibur prime, not Proto Excalibur, and not any other variations, permutations, or Versions. You get one thing and one thing only. Say over you version of Excalibur. That's it. Stop acting like you guys own the frame and DE has to ask your permission before doing anything with Excalibur.

*claps* I like you ;D

[Jinryusai]

You want to hear something funny?

 

I have never heard or seen a single Founder make a comment like that.

...Your Daffy Duck rendition or otherwise.

You won't hear it because it's their thought process and how they feel. How many people are actually honest and outspoken about their feelings and not hide behind something else to disguise the truth? This also does not mean all founders either...

 

And since the devs read these forums, no letter is required, but anything helps.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

I don't think they said that. Rereleasing him as a skin or with a different name, they certainly won't do. But updating his model isn't a violation of their promises.

Also, why does DE need special funding to reskin Excalibur Prime? Did they need special funding to come out with a new Warframe? And if they can spend the time to make more unnecessary Warframes and weapons, why can't they take the tiem to update the visuals of three frames?

I heard they said that and I don't doubt it since if you bought the founders pack for Excalibur Prime you did it soley for his look if they changed it you payed money for a different look.

I don't think they said that. Rereleasing him as a skin or with a different name, they certainly won't do. But updating his model isn't a violation of their promises.

Also, why does DE need special funding to reskin Excalibur Prime? Did they need special funding to come out with a new Warframe? And if they can spend the time to make more unnecessary Warframes and weapons, why can't they take the tiem to update the visuals of three frames?

I heard they said that in a devstream and I don't doubt it since if you bought the founders pack for Excalibur Prime you did it soley for his look if they changed it you payed money for a different look.