(XBOX)brenon45 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Indeed it is faster no denying it, but now you can use differents melee weapons without concern. So now on your speed runs you can gain Exp for melees you never would have equiped before, so all in all, you get slightly slower speed runs (mk...), but all weapons arent dependent on Coptering so now some players can change things up and still be up to speed with proper Parkour-2.0-ing. Edited August 6, 2015 by (XB1)brenon45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonWithManyAliases Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Directional melee is what I miss. It was simple and awesome. Directional melee: Look at a high ledge... jump swing land on ledge. Parkour 2.0: Look at a high ledge... look down crouch jump double jump hope to hell you get near the ledge because you are most likely still looking at the floor Fail... take the stairs Such improvement >___> Directional Melee: Look at ledge. Jump. Swing. Waffle upwards 3 feet. Fall Back down. Take Stairs. Parkour 2.0 Run towards Ledge. Look Up. Crouch and Jump at same time. Boost up high above the ledge. Use Aim Glide for a second to get correct position and float over ledge. Land on edge. Much improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkirin Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Well, let's dial things back and look at what the root of the problem is. Speed is an issue because the grind is an issue. With slower speed and longer missions, the change isn't welcomed by all. The added freedom is great for playing around or exploring, but let's face it. That isn't the context in which alot of people spend their time on Warframe. When you're disengaged from the game and are just looking to pile on completions to battle the oppressive RNG, the freedom of movement is irrelevant. It's essentially added freedom in every direction except the one you're wanting to go (forward, faster). So it's not that Parkour 2.0 is bad in and of itself. It's that it exaggerates an already endemic problem. As if the design flaw weren't already grating enough, now it's even moreso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk1991 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Directional melee is what I miss. It was simple and awesome. Directional melee: Look at a high ledge... jump swing land on ledge. Parkour 2.0: Look at a high ledge... look down crouch jump double jump hope to hell you get near the ledge because you are most likely still looking at the floor Fail... take the stairs Such improvement >___> You still have to stop dead, otherwise you will slide... right? I'm not a fan of how the momentum of it forces you to stop all of the time. it's lost a lot of fluidity imho. You do realize you can lump upward by looking up just like how we did it directional melee was a thing right? The whole "Look down to jump up" thing was mostly there as a panic button for when you're surrounded by enemies. Edited August 7, 2015 by Basilisk1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3llyn Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Well, let's dial things back and look at what the root of the problem is. Speed is an issue because the grind is an issue. With slower speed and longer missions, the change isn't welcomed by all. The added freedom is great for playing around or exploring, but let's face it. That isn't the context in which alot of people spend their time on Warframe. When you're disengaged from the game and are just looking to pile on completions to battle the oppressive RNG, the freedom of movement is irrelevant. It's essentially added freedom in every direction except the one you're wanting to go (forward, faster). So it's not that Parkour 2.0 is bad in and of itself. It's that it exaggerates an already endemic problem. As if the design flaw weren't already grating enough, now it's even moreso. Except for a lot of people in here are in fact arguing that it's bad. They outright refuse to accept that it might actually be a good addition to the game because coptering was wtfomfgawesome be-all-end-all to movement. As for the rest. We know RNG and bloated loot tables have been issues for a long time and that so far DE have been unwilling to fix. So really that's a discussion for it's own thread and it's a discussion that is going to have to happen sooner or later if DE keeps on as they are. The exilus slot and the new warframe highlight those issue more than slowing down movement speed by maybe 10% does. Edited August 7, 2015 by f3llyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDirtTrooper Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Except for a lot of people in here are in fact arguing that it's bad. They outright refuse to accept that it might actually be a good addition to the game because coptering was wtfomfgawesome be-all-end-all to movement. As for the rest. We know RNG and bloated loot tables have been issues for a long time and that so far DE have been unwilling to fix. So really that's a discussion for it's own thread and it's a discussion that is going to have to happen sooner or later if DE keeps on as they are. The exilus slot and the new warframe highlight those issue more than slowing down movement speed by maybe 10% does. There's been a whole lot more of the pro parkour 2.0 crowd using coptering as a strawman argument than parkour 2.0 detractors demanding that coptering be brought back. Most of the complaints have been about the loss of speed, or the feel/animations, all things that could be tweaked or fixed without bringing coptering back. The pro parkour 2.0 crowd just seems to find it easier to label us all filthy copter lovers who deserve to be unhappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3llyn Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) There's been a whole lot more of the pro parkour 2.0 crowd using coptering as a strawman argument than parkour 2.0 detractors demanding that coptering be brought back. Most of the complaints have been about the loss of speed, or the feel/animations, all things that could be tweaked or fixed without bringing coptering back. The pro parkour 2.0 crowd just seems to find it easier to label us all filthy copter lovers who deserve to be unhappy. Uhm. Speaking of strawman. What does any of that have to do what with what I said? Are you denying some have said the new movement is bad? Because I can think of quite a few instances where people have called it trash and said they want coptering back. Please note I'm not saying it didn't or hasn't happened. Just that in the context of what I said it's irrelevant. Edited August 7, 2015 by f3llyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDirtTrooper Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Uhm. Speaking of strawman. What does any of that have to do what with what I said? Are you denying some have said the new movement is bad? Because I can think of quite a few instances where people have called it trash and said they want coptering back. Please note I'm not saying it didn't or hasn't happened. Just that in the context of what I said it's irrelevant. I'm saying that yes, people have said Parkour 2.0 is bad, then they have said why, in many cases they referenced coptering when talking about the decrease in speed. In almost no cases have they demanded or even suggested that coptering be brought back, but almost all the replies to them have been screaming fits about how coptering was a bug and they're terrible for wanting it back. Thus, strawman fallacy. People have to be actually asking for coptering to come back, as opposed to saying parkour 2.0 is trash because it's slower and feels awkward or has bad animations, before that becomes a valid argument. You for instance, suggested that "They outright refuse to accept that it might actually be a good addition to the game because coptering was wtfomfgawesome be-all-end-all to movement." I haven't really seen that sentiment used anywhere, at a minimum it's an exaggeration. But it's easier to attack the bug turned feature and appeal to the crowd of players who already hated it than address the loss of linear speed or the mostly unneeded and often excessive vertical mobility, leaving aside the "feel" of the movement or the quality of its animations as a purely subjective preference. So, again, I'm seeing a lot more people defending the removing of coptering and shouting against the idea of bringing it back, but mostly they're shouting at nobody, because they keep responding to everyone who doesn't like parkour 2.0 that way rather than people who are actually asking for coptering to come back. I can't even really recall seeing a pro coptering post beyond a few "couldn't they just have left both" random comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMember Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 It toke me half the countdown (3 of my team was on ext.) to fly myself from map spawn to my group members on T3Sabotage map with Volt, so I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3ST Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 All in all, i really like the effort DE has put into this new Parkour 2.0. For me, what has always set apart this game from all other shooters, is the uber fun movement system (coptering included) Now, no matter how good u get with bulletjump+ DD+ aimglide, its still slow as hell compared to coptering, the Bunnyhopping looks lame and stupid as hell, i understand the reason to change it though, it just still looks and feels wrong.. Bullet jump and directional melee, needs a serious buff, then i can better accecpt the new system... (and Plz, ditch the bunny hopping for gods sake...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkirin Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Except for a lot of people in here are in fact arguing that it's bad. They outright refuse to accept that it might actually be a good addition to the game because coptering was wtfomfgawesome be-all-end-all to movement. Because it was faster. You may not think that the difference is significant, but when you're having to grind missions until your eyes bleed, that time adds up. People prefer the old system because raw speed >> freedom in the context of most of the gameplay. Parkour 2.0 is essentially sacrificing something that does take some skill to optimize, if not simply perform with any efficiency, and in return it has a bunch of frilly stuff that, while it may be fun to play with, is of absolutely 0 consequence to getting missions completed as fast as possible. Removing that pressure/impetus for superspeed completions and you'll remove much of the gripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3llyn Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Because it was faster. You may not think that the difference is significant, but when you're having to grind missions until your eyes bleed, that time adds up. People prefer the old system because raw speed >> freedom in the context of most of the gameplay. Parkour 2.0 is essentially sacrificing something that does take some skill to optimize, if not simply perform with any efficiency, and in return it has a bunch of frilly stuff that, while it may be fun to play with, is of absolutely 0 consequence to getting missions completed as fast as possible. Removing that pressure/impetus for superspeed completions and you'll remove much of the gripe. What you're describing is not an issue with the movement systems but an issue with the reward systems. I can see why, in that context people might think going slower is bad. But honestly, the new movement system is better for the game. The old one was on borrowed time. Tilesets may not make use of it right now but who says they can't and won't in the future? It's not exactly easy to modify all these tiles they spent the last 2+ years making. So if what you're saying is true then it's not fair to say the new movement system is bad/trash because a completely different unrelated issue. We should be advocating for changes to the bloated loot tabels and poor rng instead of fighting over something that isn't coming back. Edited August 7, 2015 by f3llyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkirin Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 What you're describing is not an issue with the movement systems but an issue with the reward systems. I can see why, in that context people might think going slower is bad. But honestly, the new movement system is better for the game. The old one was on borrowed time. Tilesets may not make use of it right now but who says they can't and won't in the future? It's not exactly easy to modify all these tiles they spent the last 2+ years making. So if what you're saying is true then it's not fair to say the new movement system is bad/trash because a completely different unrelated issue. We should be advocating for changes to the bloated loot tabels and poor rng instead of fighting over something that isn't coming back. It's a different issue, but it's entirely related. Understand that, past a point, many nuances of the game become frivolous and functionally just cease to exist when people become disconnected from the game while grinding. When you're rushing to score fast completion as the sole means of combating an oppressive RNG, the fact that you can do other things is utterly irrelevant as it doesn't help you do the one thing you are trying to do. Even worse, it actually makes that one thing slightly more frustrating to do, as if this game really needs additional obstacles in it's reward scheme. So you're right in a sense. The ultimate problem is indeed the reward scheme. However, in the context that the reward scheme is unlikely to change (or is more likely to just get worse), then there is legitimate grievance in removing one of the precious few tools players have to really tackle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonorGuard2074 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Guys how about this,you adapt (i was a pro at coptering,yet i feel faster in the new due to not A getting shot too far,or out of map B not being able to turn on the fly C instead of going into a wall,i land in a missile or heavy gunner) D not enough control over my speed ) Parkour 2.0 i feel faster then coptering which i say is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chub_N_Tuck Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) Guys how about this,you adapt (i was a pro at coptering,yet i feel faster in the new due to not A getting shot too far,or out of map B not being able to turn on the fly C instead of going into a wall,i land in a missile or heavy gunner) D not enough control over my speed ) Parkour 2.0 i feel faster then coptering which i say is good Except for A, other points dont go along with your prompt which is "yet I feel faster in the new [parkour] due to not..." I think I do understand what you mean, but you'll need better sentence structure than that to convince others. Not that I hate disagree though. Edited August 9, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonorGuard2074 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Except for A, other points dont go along with your prompt which is "yet I feel faster in the new [parkour] due to not..." I think I do understand what you mean, but you'll need better sentence structure than that to convince others. Not that I hate disagree though. Moreless i mean The points are coptering,saying all the flaws of coptering i had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xontix627 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I feel that you get more height from Bullet Jump + Double Jump, compared to normal jump plus upwards melee. That's my main thing I've got going for Parkour 2.0. But yeah, it does feel a bit slower, but I definitely like how I can go from the bottom of the circular room in the void all the way up to the second floor without having to take the stairs up. Also, I don't use the Tipedo. But I do miss legitimate wall running :(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) A flaw of p2 is definitely wall-hopping. I fell it´s sometimes way harder to wall"run" now in areas where it was no problem before. Also i thought they would implement wall-hopping because so you can wall-"run" more places... That´s not even the case. Maybe i´m just bad but i have real problem with the new wallrunning/wallhopping to the point i don´t use it anymore or try to avoid it as much as possible. o.o Also horizontal wall-hopping is horrible from a watchers point of view aaaaaand when there´s just a little jug/edge above you, you kinda ramming your head nonstop into the wall like super mario. Using everything else as jump-pad though feels great. And infinite horizontal hopping feels great from a gaming point of view.. though it still looks inferior to the old wallrunning. Does anyone else have problems with wall hopping in general and specially in places that are not a clean blank wall? Edited August 9, 2015 by VoidNomade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOSDAP Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I don't care about parkour 2.0 or something, but... just give back me my "wallrun". "I am a space ninja, not space bunny, god damn!"© Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EetNotErn Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) Wow are people STILL crying about losing coptering? People in game don't even care anymore because we're still zipping across the map pretty fast especially on maps that have a lot of verticality. On those maps I'm definitely moving across faster than with coptering. I do agree that the wall "bunny hopping" looks pretty weird though. There are still some tweaks needs for Parkour 2.0 but coptering isn't missed except by the "gotta go fast" crowd. Edited August 9, 2015 by EetNotErn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranks21 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) p2.0 makes me actually detest jumping forward knowing that if I press jump a second time I'm ending up hitting my head in the ceiling. it's horrible! bring back the front flip and take out bullet jump it is so annoying when you want to go forward and keep floating in the ceiling like a weather balloon. I never knew ninjas could flutter like butterflies.. Edited August 9, 2015 by ranks21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chub_N_Tuck Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 p2.0 makes me actually detest jumping forward knowing that if I press jump a second time I'm ending up hitting my head in the ceiling. I'm honestly curious what people mean by this right here. How do you hit your head into the ceiling by jumping forward? it's horrible! bring back the front flip It's pretty sad when you know it won't happen and you keep crying in the forums about it. Honestly don't see any other reason to hate it than hating the appearance of you character mid-jump, which is completely objective. and take out bullet jump it is so annoying when you want to go forward and keep floating in the ceiling like a weather balloon. Get better at maneuvering it. I get a lot of momentum when I aim glide mid-air and then press my crouch + jump key right away. And by the way, weather balloons keep going up in the air, so that's not quite a good analogy. Just another word created for dumping your hate into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranks21 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 1.have you played any tileset with corridors? that will answer your curiosity. 2. not crying just voicing my oppinion which means just as much as yours = nothing! 3. I dont need to get better at something I just dont like << would you? and as for the weather balloon analogy, it's the whole floaty feeling you get from maneuvering through the maps using this new mechanics. I'm not that salty to be hateful, I just truly dislike it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkingmachine Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 I'm honestly curious what people mean by this right here. How do you hit your head into the ceiling by jumping forward? It's pretty sad when you know it won't happen and you keep crying in the forums about it. Honestly don't see any other reason to hate it than hating the appearance of you character mid-jump, which is completely objective. Get better at maneuvering it. I get a lot of momentum when I aim glide mid-air and then press my crouch + jump key right away. And by the way, weather balloons keep going up in the air, so that's not quite a good analogy. Just another word created for dumping your hate into. He's right though, bullet + double jump forward lifts you high enough into the air to land above the small doors, making it highly impractical in smaller rooms, so you actually have to pass on the double jump often which means you move a lot slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-LongBorn Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 with the parkour 2.0 you actually feel like a space ninja. i just dont like the wall climbing animation doe make it a spider-man-ish craw but faster would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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