[Feedback] Why Are We Being Punished?

[neKroMancer]

Then all clanmates would leave temporarily so the dojo can be built more cheaply.

It's more number balancing. We have some estimates about how long one player can gather certain amount of money/material. Perhaps making each person in a clan play for 5-7 days, 2-3 hours per day in order to make things progress in a reasonable pace.

Smaller clan will have the advantage of dedicated players. Larger clan will have more player helping them but inactive players will hinder their progress. This will keep the clan size at reasonable and manageable number.

[plznohurtme]

Simply playing the game and not farming for resources, I can gather about 2000 common and 500 uncommon in about 1-2 hours depending on the RNG, not 4.  While farming, depending on the resource, I'd say I could do a little under twice that number in defense and mobile defense missions and mostly get the resources I need.  The math also doesn't factor in the resources a player who didn't just start already has.  It is definitely a large project, and not worth finishing anything but the essentials for some smaller clans, but not totally impossible or unreasonable.  The main problem is the formas, not the resources, which does need to get changed

Let's say you get 2000 salvage in 1 hour, that's ~227 hours of game time to build the rooms required from salvage alone. If you're getting 500 circuits in 1 hour, that's ~350 hours of game time to build the rooms required... and that's just two materials alone. The cited post comes to a total of 2160 hours worth of farming to build it, and even if we take your best number and cut that down to a quarter of it you're still looking at 540 game hours to build the dojo stuff for research. This does *not* take into effect the cost of the research itself:

=========================================

full Bio Lab research cost:

-----------------------------------------

Credits ---------- 1750000

Detonite Ampule - 2500

Ferrite ---------- 110000

Polymer Bundle - 105000

Plastids --------- 40000

=========================================

full Energy Lab research cost:

=========================================

Credits ---------- 4500000

Fieldron Sample - 4250

Rubedo ----------- 10000

Circuits --------- 55000

Ferrite ---------- 100000

Plastids --------- 50000

Nano Spores ---- 175000

Polymer Bundle - 180000

--Fieldron Research will add roughly

--80000-100000 more materials cost

=========================================

6750 of a new material that is a rare drop (think morphics, maybe slightly more common) and 6250000 credits. Plus the regular materials as well.

Edited May 25, 2013 by plznohurtme

[mmSNAKE]

The cost is way too high. My clan has 10 people, out of those ten, five play on daily basis, and out of those five, three spend more than 3 hours on average a day. I can see the three of us crunching few days to get the mats (salvage,  circuits etc), but getting forma is a kick in the nuts.  I gave some platinum to help it start but I can't expect people to pour money into this, and even with the time they spend getting forma is extremely difficult. I got one off a lv III raid. Getting a lv III key is pretty difficult, and even then there is only a chance, since out of three lv III keys we used only one gave us forma blueprint.

 

I'm not gonna count on daily awards and alerts because that is absolutely ridiculous. I have a life, responsibilities, I need sleep, I travel a lot. There is no WAY I can rely on alerts. People can say all the want, but to me alerts are extremely unfair. Same thing regarding Vauban. I'm not paying for it and I the chances of me getting it otherwise are slim, and would probably require more than a month(which again :S).

 

Anyway yeah, I do NOT WANT to join a massive clan. I couldn't give a damn about joining 80 some people I don't have a relation with for something that I'm doing in my free time. I want to play with my friends, who I know personally and I'm comfortable with. It's unfair to ask something like this.

 

On the up note, this might be a great stress test to see where the dojo balancing should go. Rather have it extremely harsh to start than make it so everyone can get everything with hardly any effort. Hopefully they decide to tone down the requirements soon.

[-S-O-Chadone]

Well, the Dojo is great, yeah. But my Clan is tiny too, and no one of us have the money for Forma, and the time to farm 24/07.

That the rooms need so much items is just madness.

Well, i played a lot games in the past, and DE is the best what ive ever seen, but THIS, the number of items we need, is just madness, and the first fail of DE in my eyes..

how long should we play to get only 5 forma?

how long should we play to get all the other items?

without the formas for it, it could be possible, but now, my clan could forget the clan-dojo.

No one of us want to farm a year, to get a few rooms for the dojo.

[Saint_Tan]

Maybe its because I am a single player with no interest in starting a clan, but I don't understand the gripe here.  This game is a free to play - not free to build.  Investing/building a dojo just seems (to me) like an added bonus/frosting/luxury/bragging rights thing.  Beyond that, I currently don't see that it affects actual game play for my Tenno (which is all I really care about).  If you want a place to chat and hang out with like-minded players, there is always the lobby.

 

So I so don't understand the complaining.  If you want to build for free/next to nothing, go over to Mindcraft.  But if you want to PLAY space ninjas, stick around and do what the main focus of the game is - missions.

 

Just a thought. 

[Flashie]

This is the ressource cost just to even get the labs. Add another x-hallway to that since we'd already built that at the time I calculated this.

 

500k Credits
390k Salvage
35k Ferrite
175k Circuits
140k Polymer
15k Alloy
120k Spores
70 Forma

 

That's 1 cross-hallway, reactor, oracle and the three labs.

 

We're a clan of 10 people...guess we'll never see that flamethrower...or rocket launcher...or the prod...or...well...anything really.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Flashie

[Blit_Wizbok]

TLDR: Have tiers that contain cooler and more expensive things as they’re unlocked. Have to pay a price to unlock the next tier. Have at least SOME cool things (LIKE PVP) available to the first tier so smaller clans have more than just some empty rooms and some hallways and don’t feel cheated. Have committed resources proportional to build time; Start building at 20% resources and it builds at 20% speed, part way through put in 40% more resources and the remaining time builds at 60% or the normal rate. This lets smaller clans at least start building the fun stuff with limited resources; they just have to wait longer for it.

 

A better solution is this:

There are tiers of clan sizes. The first one could be 1 to 15 people. They require 15K nanospores, a clan of say 16-30 requires 20K nanospores (total bs numbers to just illustrate a point). They build it everything is good and happy and they can build the rest of the rooms at a cheaper price. Once they go to 16 people they move up to the next size tier. In order to keep using the rooms and stuff they now need to pay the difference in materials between the two tiers, for the hallway that would be 5K nanospores.

 

    This is the same idea I was thinking, only have the tiers be independent of clan size. Instead, the resource cost of items in higher tiers increase so that only a larger clan can obtain them in any reasonable amount of time. Also, have a large resource commitment to unlock the next tier.

 

    However it’s imperative, and I can’t stress imperative enough, that a smaller clan be able to build at least some of the key structures that makes having a dojo worthwhile. By small clan I mean 1-15 people, and by key structures, currently I would consider the dueling arena the only one, but I honestly think most of the unique, dojo-specific areas should be unlockable at T1, but at a great cost.

 

    I’ve played several games where the ability to build clan/guild areas existed, and it was promised that even a small clan could maintain their own area. Only to find out the content that players would actually make a clan area for (gathering areas, specialty vendors, etc) can only be achieved by larger clans and the smaller clans a screwed anyway.

 

An example of how this could work is:

**Bear with me I don't know what Dojo rooms are needed for what yet.**

***I'm going to assume that the labs are required give the Oracle the ability to research various rooms***

 

Tier 1 would contain basic connectors and many of the Dojo-specific areas such as:

• Small hallway, T connector, elbow connector, small room, Dueling arena, Oracle, Labs.

Future additions could include:

• A trading table that allows players to trade resources

The labs would function to unlock blueprints that would be used by the oracle to build stuff, assuming that’s how it currently works. Higher Dojo tiers grant labs the ability to unlock more blueprints.

 

Tier 2 would contain things focused on community interaction and aesthetics (I imagine many clans would be at this level):

• More connectors (long corridors with windows for example) quad connector, Great Hall and other communal areas, Reactor, additional Lab unlocks.
  • *Note about Great Hall: In the wiki the Great hall is substantially cheaper than a Clan Hall leading me to believe it’s smaller than a CH, despite its name.*

Future additions might include fun rooms and cost of living items:

• Crafting benches that increase the rate items are forged while the player is in the Dojo, Small VR room used for target practice (shoot flying balls, melee wooden pillars)
• Aesthetics for the dojo such as windows, lighting, whatever, Clan Vault?

 

Tier 3 would be for the truly large clans. This tier would contain awesome and unique features. I’m going to list some examples as none of these are in the game yet:

• Access to every connector, aesthetic element and the unique Clan Hall
• A docking port so non-clan members can visit the Dojo, VR rooms designed for challenges like a shooting range and jumping area. These rooms would be accessible to non-clan members would have leaderboard tracking.
• Clan-only target range that allows clan members to try a holo version of any weapon they choose
• A series of unique dueling arenas: one that supports more than 2 people (4-man free-for-all!), arenas that have varying obstacles such as pillars, multiple floors, rooms that HAVE no floors where you lose if you fall, or low gravity arenas
• A new foundry area where a player can put in various mods and a fusion core and receive a mod of the same rarity/class, or maybe a better rarity! An example of how this might work:
  • 3 rank 1 Uncommon Frame Mods and a rank 1 Rare Core would most likely produce a different uncommon frame mod and have a low chance for a rare frame mod. 3 rank 8 common mods and a rank 10 rare core would be a pretty darn good chance to get a rare frame mod.

    As you can see, a system like this would ensure that the smaller clans have access to some of the unique experiences Dojos offer so they don’t feel left out, but there are still plenty of fun and unique things that only large clans and realistically get.

 

    As for the resource cost for the fun stuff that’s also accessible to T1 clans; I still think they should take time for larger clans time to build, but also have to be realistically achievable for small clans, I suggest a build time based on the amount of resources put in.

 

The Dueling Room costs:

• Credits            75,000
• Salvage           65,000
• Ferrite             35,000
• Nano Spores  120,000
• Forma             10
• Capacity Cost 10
• Energy Cost    10

    I’m not sure how long it takes to build but let’s pretend 3 days. In order to start construction a clan would still need 75k credits, but only a fraction of the resources (let’s say 10% for the moment). However, this would mean it only builds at 10% the speed it normally would. That would mean it would take a staggering 30 days to build it if left at 10% resource commitment.

 

    As its building clan members can continue to pay resources to increase the build speed. So if a few days go by and the clan puts in another 20% of the total resource cost the build speed will increase to 30%, all the way up to 100% of the resources at which point it will build at the normal rate.

 

    This way infrequent players and small clans can at least start construction on items and have them build as they continue to gather resources, but won’t alter the rate that larger clans currently construct things.

 

    This way infrequent players and small clans can at least start construction on items and have them build as they continue to gather resources, but won’t alter the rate that larger clans currently construct things.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

We are a clan of 6 people.

Let me just tell how my friends and I got to play this game:

 

1) "oh look, another f2p game, lets take a look at it, shall we?"

2) only 4 people in game - "yeah, that is the coop game we need, guys!"

3) *slash, slash, ratatatata, slash, boom* "hey, the gameplay is really nice, hope they add more to it!"

4) "hmm, having some trouble farming for ember parts, i guess i should donate" *buying plat*

5) "hmm, it seems im outta slots. Ill go buy some. Oh, and a couple of catalysts too..." *buying some more plat*

6) *slash, slash, ratatata, kaboom*  "-Are you guys enjoying the game? -Hell yeah!"

7) "-wow, the update 8 is coming in a couple of weeks! we are going to have our own base! -Hell yeah!"

 

8) *update 8 is deployed*...

 

"oh, look, a new sentinel, some new weapons, OH! a clan key! guys, start building those!"

 

12 hours later...

 

"WTF." "man, srsly, wtf?" "HOW MUCH SALVAGE?!" "for a freaking HALLWAY?"

"wait, so new locations are locked and we have to farm for keys?"

"wait, so they didnt fix this and that... and this too... and HOW MUCH SALVAGE?!"

"errrmmm, so formas... required for that hallway... are that rare?"

"so they didnt implement that trade system?"

"LOL, what the hell man, they turned BETA into ALPHA, hahaha"

"wait, HOW MUCH SALVAGE?!"

 

And the horryfying phrase yet to be said:

 

"man, lets just play something different? im tired of this crap"

 

 

that is LITERALLY what was said in skype.

 

 

Now, getting to the point.

 

1) there are only 4 people in-game at all times.

2) to enjoy the dojo content you MUST be a part of the clan with more than 4 people.

 

Am i the only one seeing the weirdest of contradictions over here?

 

We are a clan of 6 people.

No matter how much platinum we buy, we MUST farm A LOT to build a HALLWAY.

 

We dont want to be a part of a big clan. We dont want to expand our clan to 100500 players. We are being punished for that by being unable to enjoy some content of the game.

Honestly, i havent seen that in most games.

"buy a DLC", "buy in-game currency" - im totally fine with that.

 

But, why should we be joining a HUGE clan if there is NO NEED for it in-game? Only 4 people!!

If me and my friends always play together, we will never ever see another player in-game with us! Because there is only 4 slots for players!

 

We are a clan of 6 people being punished for wanting to play private games only.

we are being punished for wanting our own dojo with no strangers in it.

we are being punished for thinking Warframe was a coop online game, not a mmorpg like Aion-lineage-world-of-whatevers.

 

And yeah, we are a clan of 6 people considering to quit playing Warframe if the current tendency continues.

I know i wont be missed here. I know no one cares.

I just happened to hear the word "feedback" on the livestream. So i decided to give some of that.

 

No disrespect meant. No offense.

Im truly sorry if someone finds this post offensive to DE or Warframe. I love this game. Still.

Peace.

 

You haven't even gotten to the worst part yet. The weapons you can unlock with research cost even more than the rooms themselves. One weapon even costs as much credits as all the rooms required for a minimal setup. I just found this out and even though I initially wanted to create a Dojo, with the added ridiculous costs of weapons, it's clear to me that you need to be HUGE to get this in the air. So yeah, unless you're willing to pick this game up as a secondary daily job, you're NEVER going to see these weapons.

[plznohurtme]

Maybe its because I am a single player with no interest in starting a clan, but I don't understand the gripe here.  This game is a free to play - not free to build.  Investing/building a dojo just seems (to me) like an added bonus/frosting/luxury/bragging rights thing.  Beyond that, I currently don't see that it affects actual game play for my Tenno (which is all I really care about).  If you want a place to chat and hang out with like-minded players, there is always the lobby.

 

So I so don't understand the complaining.  If you want to build for free/next to nothing, go over to Mindcraft.  But if you want to PLAY space ninjas, stick around and do what the main focus of the game is - missions.

 

Just a thought.

There are weapons gated behind the wall of materials and credits that is the Dojo, or I honestly wouldn't care either.

 

 

TLDR: Have tiers that contain cooler and more expensive things as they’re unlocked. Have to pay a price to unlock the next tier. Have at least SOME cool things (LIKE PVP) available to the first tier so smaller clans have more than just some empty rooms and some hallways and don’t feel cheated. Have committed resources proportional to build time; Start building at 20% resources and it builds at 20% speed, part way through put in 40% more resources and the remaining time builds at 60% or the normal rate. This lets smaller clans at least start building the fun stuff with limited resources; they just have to wait longer for it.

 

 

    This is the same idea I was thinking, only have the tiers be independent of clan size. Instead, the resource cost of items in higher tiers increase so that only a larger clan can obtain them in any reasonable amount of time. Also, have a large resource commitment to unlock the next tier.

 

    However it’s imperative, and I can’t stress imperative enough, that a smaller clan be able to build at least some of the key structures that makes having a dojo worthwhile. By small clan I mean 1-15 people, and by key structures, currently I would consider the dueling arena the only one, but I honestly think most of the unique, dojo-specific areas should be unlockable at T1, but at a great cost.

 

    I’ve played several games where the ability to build clan/guild areas existed, and it was promised that even a small clan could maintain their own area. Only to find out the content that players would actually make a clan area for (gathering areas, specialty vendors, etc) can only be achieved by larger clans and the smaller clans a screwed anyway.

 

An example of how this could work is:

**Bear with me I don't know what Dojo rooms are needed for what yet.**

***I'm going to assume that the labs are required give the Oracle the ability to research various rooms***

 

Tier 1 would contain basic connectors and many of the Dojo-specific areas such as:

• Small hallway, T connector, elbow connector, small room, Dueling arena, Oracle, Labs.

Future additions could include:

• A trading table that allows players to trade resources

The labs would function to unlock blueprints that would be used by the oracle to build stuff, assuming that’s how it currently works. Higher Dojo tiers grant labs the ability to unlock more blueprints.

 

Tier 2 would contain things focused on community interaction and aesthetics (I imagine many clans would be at this level):

• More connectors (long corridors with windows for example) quad connector, Great Hall and other communal areas, Reactor, additional Lab unlocks.
  • *Note about Great Hall: In the wiki the Great hall is substantially cheaper than a Clan Hall leading me to believe it’s smaller than a CH, despite its name.*

Future additions might include fun rooms and cost of living items:

• Crafting benches that increase the rate items are forged while the player is in the Dojo, Small VR room used for target practice (shoot flying balls, melee wooden pillars)
• Aesthetics for the dojo such as windows, lighting, whatever, Clan Vault?

Tier 3 would be for the truly large clans. This tier would contain awesome and unique features. I’m going to list some examples as none of these are in the game yet:

• Access to every connector, aesthetic element and the unique Clan Hall
• A docking port so non-clan members can visit the Dojo, VR rooms designed for challenges like a shooting range and jumping area. These rooms would be accessible to non-clan members would have leaderboard tracking.
• Clan-only target range that allows clan members to try a holo version of any weapon they choose
• A series of unique dueling arenas: one that supports more than 2 people (4-man free-for-all!), arenas that have varying obstacles such as pillars, multiple floors, rooms that HAVE no floors where you lose if you fall, or low gravity arenas
• A new foundry area where a player can put in various mods and a fusion core and receive a mod of the same rarity/class, or maybe a better rarity! An example of how this might work:
  • 3 rank 1 Uncommon Frame Mods and a rank 1 Rare Core would most likely produce a different uncommon frame mod and have a low chance for a rare frame mod. 3 rank 8 common mods and a rank 10 rare core would be a pretty darn good chance to get a rare frame mod.

As you can see, a system like this would ensure that the smaller clans have access to some of the unique experiences Dojos offer so they don’t feel left out, but there are still plenty of fun and unique things that only large clans and realistically get.

 

    As for the resource cost for the fun stuff that’s also accessible to T1 clans; I still think they should take time for larger clans time to build, but also have to be realistically achievable for small clans, I suggest a build time based on the amount of resources put in.

 

The Dueling Room costs:

• Credits            75,000
• Salvage           65,000
• Ferrite             35,000
• Nano Spores  120,000
• Forma             10
• Capacity Cost 10
• Energy Cost    10

I’m not sure how long it takes to build but let’s pretend 3 days. In order to start construction a clan would still need 75k credits, but only a fraction of the resources (let’s say 10% for the moment). However, this would mean it only builds at 10% the speed it normally would. That would mean it would take a staggering 30 days to build it if left at 10% resource commitment.

 

    As its building clan members can continue to pay resources to increase the build speed. So if a few days go by and the clan puts in another 20% of the total resource cost the build speed will increase to 30%, all the way up to 100% of the resources at which point it will build at the normal rate.

 

    This way infrequent players and small clans can at least start construction on items and have them build as they continue to gather resources, but won’t alter the rate that larger clans currently construct things.

 

    This way infrequent players and small clans can at least start construction on items and have them build as they continue to gather resources, but won’t alter the rate that larger clans currently construct things.

Personally PvP isn't of any importance to me, the fact that weapons are gated behind the Dojo is what matters here. You only have one option if you want to get access to those weapons. Honestly the Dueling Room doesn't even cost a whole ton in comparison to the gated weapons, it's 1 reactor and the dueling room itself, though I do agree its current cost is still a pretty large barrier to surpass.

Edited May 25, 2013 by plznohurtme

[JHarlequin]

 The material costs were sort of aimed towards huge clans.  When you look at it, the benefits are massive at that rate.  100 clan members get a decent dojo built, get the research done and make the items, that is 100 people that just got what are basically ultra rare items.  They are basically going to be just a step short of unique.

 

 Many different ideas have come up about the fixes that might make clans more approachable for the 2-20 set, and of course at those levels, the people will probably be shocked at what they get after getting a reasonable dojo.  They aren't going to get much for what they put into it.

 

 It leads towards the idea that sharing grants rewards, and it does, but it's just 100 people that probably dont' know each other at all.  The dojo isn't going to be a social place, it's going to be the benefit that got you an amazing weapon, no one you would actually play with, and if half the members of larger clans even remember the clan name, I would be shocked.

 

 It isn't exactly bad and there should be some benefit for large clans, but when the game only allows 4 people to play together at a time, smaller clans should have been given more attention.

 

 One suggestion that I saw in a thread was that the materials only cut back the time it takes to make the room.  Give each room very long times, and as more materials are donated the time gets cut back.  Large clans could get their whole dojo built in a couple hours if they pay off all the rooms constantly, while smaller clans probably would have to wait half a week for each room if they pay a quarter to half of the mats.  Amounts would have to be worked out, but it does give better options to every size of clan without throwing up a specifically abusable option.  I really wish I could find that post again.

[plznohurtme]

I referenced the first one I saw which suggested that, and expanded upon that in the post I started about this issue: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49327-dojo-thoughts-from-someone-not-interested-in-larger-clan-play/

Edited May 25, 2013 by plznohurtme

[PlumTheHermitCrab]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Tnargraef/What_to_do_about_Clan_Dojos:_Day_1

 

Using this math, a group of 6 should take 90 days to build a basic setup of bio/chem/energy lab, reactor, oracle, and the hallways to connect them, playing four hours a day.

And if they only play for 2-hours a day (which is quite a big long-term investment in itself) it should take them 180 days? (Assuming everyone always plays 2 hours a day). The real number of days could be +- 30, I'll assume, just in case someone plays less or more. Six months or so is a long time, especially in today's game-world...

[Blit_Wizbok]

You haven't even gotten to the worst part yet. The weapons you can unlock with research cost even more than the rooms themselves. One weapon even costs as much credits as all the rooms required for a minimal setup. I just found this out and even though I initially wanted to create a Dojo, with the added ridiculous costs of weapons, it's clear to me that you need to be HUGE to get this in the air. So yeah, unless you're willing to pick this game up as a secondary daily job, you're NEVER going to see these weapons.

 

 

Personally PvP isn't of any importance to me, the fact that weapons are gated behind the Dojo is what matters here. You only have one option if you want to get access to those weapons. Honestly the Dueling Room doesn't even cost a whole ton in comparison to the gated weapons, it's 1 reactor and the dueling room itself, though I do agree its current cost is still a pretty large barrier to surpass.

 

    I'm not sure exactly how the weapons work, when you build them does everyone in the clan get one or just get the ability to buy the blueprints, for one? Can a clan member get every weapon when unlocked? Will these weapons also be available through alerts? Not knowing things like that make it difficult for me to find ways around small clans getting overlooked.

 

    That aside, the weapons would be balanced in much the same way the cost of the rooms would be. There would be weapons that could be unlocked at each tier of the lab. the ones at T1 would be the least costly, they wouldn't be worse or inferior to the higher tier weapons, they'd just be different. Another Idea would be to have melees be the cheapest and unlockable at T1, secondaries at T2, and primaries at T3. Or melee at T1, secondary/primary at T2 and skins for them unlocked at T3.

 

    There's a lot of ways this could be approached other than, "Things are too expensive, boo hoo" The devs love suggestions for improvement more than complaints.

[plznohurtme]

Pretty sure I already linked this, but I put up a rather lengthy post regarding the whole thing with suggestions, if I didn't or someone missed it, because I agree feedback/ideas is key: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49327-dojo-thoughts-from-someone-not-interested-in-larger-clan-play/

[OrokinNoob]

all I can say is that the info is out there, people need to check it out and read the requirements and needed resources. if you as an individual, not even clan, don't have that much, then just don't build a dojo.

 

I wish people would stop treating this as some forced exploit DE has come up with. Imagine the people who have been playing since Alpha or Closed beta testing, they have resources, credits and probably become a little bored of the game. Huge clans and veteran players are not upset because they've had the time to move forward with the dojos, so just give it time.

 

The dojo mechanic was meant to be a sit and wait option.

 

Its really not fair to say that the dojo mechanic is unfair to small clans, when there are clans that are over 20k, its just becoming more obvious that clans need to be more focused on small clans for personal interactions or huge clans for quick Dojo and exposure mechanics.

Edited May 25, 2013 by OrokinNoob

[SoanoS]

...looks like my 5-man clan will never be able to even build the cross connector. Thanks to the FORMA. If it is a daily login reward, our clan members would have to be ridiculously lucky and *all* get a forma as their login reward. I doubt ny of them want to pay platinum just to get apiece of empty corridor, much less ridiculous amounts of platinum for a research lab.

 

If the Forma was given as a mission reward, this might help the shortage for small clans, at least a little.

 

As I see this current system, it is a targeted deathblow to small clans consisting mostly of friends.

[buttwich]

@neKroMancer

That could lead to a huge guild kicking nearly everyone out and then inviting only those with a ton of resources to build the rooms for insanely cheap then re-invite everyone once things are finished.

A better solution is this:

There are tiers of clan sizes. The first one could be 1 to 15 people. They require 15K nanospores, a clan of say 16-30 requires 20K nanospores (total bs numbers to just illustrate a point). They build it everything is good and happy and they can build the rest of the rooms at a cheaper price. Once they go to 16 people they move up to the next size tier. In order to keep using the rooms and stuff they now need to pay the difference in materials between the two tiers, for the hallway that would be 5K nanospores.

This would make is so that guilds of equal sizes paid the same number of mats, prevents exploiting, and allows the smaller clans to get everything in a more manageable time period.

Of all the ideas in this tread, tiered resource requirements seem the best. Of course, even for a small clan on the lowest tier, I still believe that it should be a major accomplishment to extend their dojo. The hallway costs is ridiculous, however. I totally agree with the OP.

[Timmuk]

Maybe its because I am a single player with no interest in starting a clan, but I don't understand the gripe here.  This game is a free to play - not free to build.  Investing/building a dojo just seems (to me) like an added bonus/frosting/luxury/bragging rights thing.  Beyond that, I currently don't see that it affects actual game play for my Tenno (which is all I really care about).  If you want a place to chat and hang out with like-minded players, there is always the lobby.

 

So I so don't understand the complaining.  If you want to build for free/next to nothing, go over to Mindcraft.  But if you want to PLAY space ninjas, stick around and do what the main focus of the game is - missions.

 

Just a thought. 

Then you didnt read that 9 of the weapons they added into the game can only be gained from building the lab in your dojo..... and that they will be adding in more weapons and things to the lab

 

so yeah dojos are pretty important if i want the new flame thrower, or rocket launcher or other weapons they have hinted at

[Vyaldyn]

Mind you, they did say the Dojo was an ALPHA stage feature, and will probably see a lot of changes in the near future. (See patch notes: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49101-update-8-rise-of-the-warlords/) It makes this kind of feedback important in order to improve the system.

Edited May 25, 2013 by 3ventic

[Venarge]

hmm. Considering that I found 800 salvage by doing ONE mission, alone. 4 X 800 =3200. By ONE squad with ONE run. 10 runs=Salvage problem solved =)
But well. I do understand the thing here. Might wanna check my idea for smaller clans ;)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/49877-clan-bonuses-friend-bonuses/#entry514659

[mmSNAKE]

A buff for mats wouldn't solve it. I don't mind putting in the work, even if it takes few of us couple weeks more. Forma on the other hand is like getting kicked in the balls after catching your breath from sprinting two miles.

[SoanoS]

hmm. Considering that I found 800 salvage by doing ONE mission, alone. 4 X 800 =3200. By ONE squad with ONE run. 10 runs=Salvage problem solved =)

But well. I do understand the thing here. Might wanna check my idea for smaller clans ;)

 

The problem is not really the salvage and other materials like that, those are still comparatively bearable costs. It is the Forma that is the issue here. something like 100 Forma to build all the necessary facilities to even get started. And if it is given trough daily login rewards (if you should be so incredibly lucky), or running those Void missions and buying with Platinum (If you have so much real money to blow).

 

Basically the login reward method is right out of the question, so 5-man clan has not got a snowballs chance in hell to get it in any other way than spending ridiculous amounts of platinum.

Edited May 25, 2013 by SoanoS

[plznohurtme]

The problem is not really the salvage and other materials like that, those are still comparatively bearable costs. It is the Forma that is the issue here. something like 100 Forma to build all the necessary facilities to even get started. And if it is given trough daily login rewards (if you should be so incredibly lucky), or running those Void missions and buying with Platinum (If you have so much real money to blow).

 

Basically the login reward method is right out of the question, so 5-man clan has not got a snowballs chance in hell to get it in any other way than spending ridiculous amounts of platinum.

So you think the 455k salvage, 175k circuits and 140k polymer bundles (just for getting the research buildings) isn't a problem, but getting 75 forma is? I'm seriously sick and tired of seeing people with opinions like yours that "oh the mats aren't the problem, it's that greedy DE trying to get our money". The whole system and amount of materials required period is the problem not just one rare material. For example to build a cross connector I could go buy the 5 forma required with plat from hunter package (and have lots left over), but I don't have the 65k salvage (I have around 50k) or 35k ferrite (I have around 11k). While this is just an example, and while I don't think that cross connector should take 5 forma (either 1 or 0 for hallways makes sense to me), it's pretty obvious that forma isn't the only problem.

The fact that people are complaining about 5 of a rare material versus massive numbers of other materials that barring an extreme amount of farming and no building anything you won't have anywhere near the quantity required just leads me to believe that said people are in a large enough clan to afford the other materials, and don't (or can't) want to pay for forma or wait to farm it. To say that absurd materials costs are "bearable" or "not really the problem" or any number of other things that I've seen people say is just silly. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture and the bigger problem here.

Here's a piece of basic analysis to consider: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Tnargraef/What_to_do_about_Clan_Dojos:_Day_1

Edited May 25, 2013 by plznohurtme

[Neuhnee]

Its really not fair to say that the dojo mechanic is unfair to small clans, when there are clans that are over 20k, its just becoming more obvious that clans need to be more focused on small clans for personal interactions or huge clans for quick Dojo and exposure mechanics.

It's unfair precisely *because* there are 20k+ clans out there. Those clans have access to essentially limitless resources. The only thing that's going to slow them down is build time. If they invest heavily in + sections they can expand exponentially, building dozens of rooms simultaneously. Mean while, the 2-10 class of clan is going to be forced to devote thousands of hours to farming mats to build one room at a time.

[UncommonUnicorn]

Original Poster - Big Rant Thing

So you got a clan of six people.

Congratulations.

That's double the size of the clan I'm in (counting active players).

 

Lemme copy&paste your rant and adjust it for just 3 people.

 

So yeah, we just decided to wait a week or so to see if anything gets changed about it before we even bother trying to build anything.

It's unfair precisely *because* there are 20k+ clans out there.

Wait... what?!

Seriously, they should put a size limit on clans, and reduce resources accordingly.

Edited May 25, 2013 by UncommonUnicorn