Nira Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Something needs to change with the current system, that's for sure. I've given up trying to sell things on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorrTerek Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Uhh... Because WF has a ridiculously high item drop rate compared to those MMOs, and with zero item consumption to boot. Face it, for an AH to succeed, a thorough overhaul of the drop system will have to be implemented. Anyone care for 0.1% drop rates and/or item breakage on death? It doesn't seem to hurt those games any...grind for it or pay through the AH, it's all good. And very few of those MMOs require you to grind for a thing to grind for another thing to grind for the thing that will finally let you grind for the thing you want. MMOs figured out a long time ago that that wasn't fun, and a lot of the popular ones are a lot more forgiving than you seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Kid Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 It doesn't seem to hurt those games any...grind for it or pay through the AH, it's all good. And very few of those MMOs require you to grind for a thing to grind for another thing to grind for the thing that will finally let you grind for the thing you want. MMOs figured out a long time ago that that wasn't fun, and a lot of the popular ones are a lot more forgiving than you seem to think. Again, that's just bacause the item sustem is desiged to balace a small number of buyers with a huge number of sellers on the market, namely through very very very low drop rates.WF drop rates are very generous for an MMO. In order to balance the small number of buyers, majority of sellers would have to rendered unwilling or unable to trade. As for other MMOs, they just make you grind for stuff so you can be specced enough for more stuff so you can be specced enough to grind for more stuff in order to get stuff that's desiged for some other class, so you do it all over again with a new character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) How about separate the trade channel in two? One for buying and one for selling? As for AHs, why not limit the number of items you can put on it per day, like they do with limits to the number of times you can trade a day? That would prevent people from putting a bunch of garbage they don't want on it and deflating prices and save their limited slots to sell things they really want to sell! The number of slots you'll get to use will be determined by your Master Rank and you won't even be able to use the AH unless you've reached a certain MR! Edited August 12, 2015 by SicSlaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaddy Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Honestly you guys are missing the point (and the big picture). Putting aside all your egos and personal vendettas aside, you dont begin with thinking about how to fix the trading system. You think about how to fix the economy. The Problem: 1. You farmed T4 Ext/Survival/Def + Raid with your clan 500 times (yay!) and got personal bests on waves completed had all the fun in the world and now you need to sell you awesome loot (because end game content = end game loot right?) 2. You feel intimidated by the trading chat because you dont know a. whats going on b. chats fly too fast for you to get a decent grasp of wtb/wts c. you assume this is the real problem because no one buys you stuff at inflated prices 3. But the real problem is after dealing with 1 and 2 and you finally get a WTS out in the open, no one buys your stuff and you feel cheated and hurt and you come here looking to fix things (by fix I mean trying to tweak the system such that you find a buyer for your stuff). The Reality: 4. The economy is crap. There are way more loot than plats available and frankly, until people start pumping alot more plats into the economy, your awesome Nyx Prime Systems from that your tough run in T4 void will still be worth closer to 1p (not 15). 5. There will always be desired items but sadly the majority of your loot will not be one of them. The Proposed Holy Grail: AH 6. I did create a post about this some time back on Auction Houses here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/501865-auction-house-in-warframe-in-game/page-7#entry5638164 My Solution: 7. It's simple. You need to create MORE DEMAND your your junk primes. That means a. More SPENDING by new people like me in game who still doesn't have a Paris Prime or some Sicarus Prime b. Fix the tutorial system for goodness sake. There is just WAY too many things and all the tutorial teaches you is what? Take a gun run around and suddenly *poof* you are in some ship. If not for my friends, I would have been out of here in a jiffy 8. Create inflation NOT deflation. Inflation means the value of stuff keeps getting higher. That means more plats in the market (paying customers) or less S#&$ in the market meaning less drops. Edited August 12, 2015 by Daaaddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I just want a search option in chat. So that if you typed in "crimson dervish" It would show all messages relating that mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaddy Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I just want a search option in chat. So that if you typed in "crimson dervish" It would show all messages relating that mod. Hot tip 101 mate. WTB > Crimson Dervish Offer me. The market has so many more sellers than buyers, you can choose from the long line of eager suitors for a "good" price. You are welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Hot tip 101 mate. WTB > Crimson Dervish Offer me. The market has so many more sellers than buyers, you can choose from the long line of eager suitors for a "good" price. You are welcome GL with the spam. I went and sat in trade chat for an hour with "WTB crimson dervish" the other day. The second I wrote a ridiculous offer like, "WTB crimson dervish for 80p", I had 5 messages instantly, with someone offering to sell it for 30 because he felt "bad". That tip is just room temperature at best. Edited August 12, 2015 by Ker-Blammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaddy Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 GL with the spam. I went and sat in trade chat for an hour with "WTB crimson dervish" the other day. The second I wrote a ridiculous offer like, "WTB crimson dervish for 80p", I had 5 messages instantly, with someone offering to sell it for 30 because he felt "bad". That tip is just room temperature at best. You are right on room temperature:) I apologise. Always put a WTB price. If people only spend a second skimming your WTB, a listed price is an indication of sincerity rather than a sneaky Price Check for his own WTS later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaloff95 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 There is no economy as long as no one knows WTF anything is worth. One person is offering Ember Prime BP for 80p. Another for 30p. Neither of these parties is likely to notice the other's price tag because of the worthless volume of spam. No, an auction house won't kill the economy. It would only stabilize what economy there is. Diablo 3's auction house failed in that it partly destroyed the very essence of the game - finding loot from slaughtering legions of monsters. People had issues with that aspect, sure, but that isn't to say the auction house failed in D3, it just kind of went against the spirit of the game. What really killed it's auction house though were constant gold duping bugs to the point where even more common items were worth millions of gold. At that point, it's economy had inflated so horrifically the only fix was to take an axe to it. It's like everyone in Warframe having hundreds of thousands of platinum (and DE's bank account doesn't reflect it.) Warframe isn't quite Diablo. Loot is rewarded at random for spending XYZ time in an endless mode. Mods do drop from enemies, but unlike Diablo 3, once you have Split Chamber, you have split chamber. There is no Triple Chamber with a top out of 150% chance for extra bullets that drops from Drekar Ballista, and a diamond chamber later with a 220% chance. There is no constant desire to replace that which you already have with something better within 15 minutes of getting it, and no, I'm not talking about going from the Braton to a Latron, I mean like mod to mod. The game DE is designing lives on constantly pushing out new content, not a procedural item generator that keeps putting together stronger and stronger items and spitting them out at the player. Imagine if the game put together Serration and Vitality mods that could range up into the thousands of percent by rank 80? At worst, an auction house would hasten the rate at which people acquire prime items. At best, it stabilizes the market, as it will then be a perfect information economy. And no, don't expect prices to keep plummeting on items. Someone, somewhere, will play the "buy low, sell high" trick and normalize the prices around a general point the community will pay for. Someone's always got spare platinum, and wants more of it. If an item actually does bottom out, no one wants it anyway. And then there's the constant need to farm ducats for the next void trader visit. That alone will keep items in demand until DE releases too many consecutive unpopular deals. And really that's the trick: making sure there's an outflow of currency and trade goods somewhere to prevent inflation and to keep things in demand. Everyone can have a braton prime, but they'll still want to sell the parts for ducats when Baro Ki Teer visits (expect price hikes on goods around that time.) The people saying an AH would kill the economy are either the price scalpers that know the current system is working in their favor, or don't understand a thing on economics. Inb4 every single one of them conveniently has a degree in the subject. Thank you! Finally someone who knows how economics works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorrTerek Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 WF drop rates are very generous for an MMO. In order to balance the small number of buyers, majority of sellers would have to rendered unwilling or unable to trade. So...change the drop rates. I still don't see that other MMOs are more stingy than Warframe in terms of giving out valuable things every run, but if you insist that the only way for an AH to work is to change the drop rates, then screw it, change 'em. If Warframe has a decent-size active playerbase then it's virtually guaranteed that both buyers and sellers will come away satisfied from an AH system eventually. That's how other MMOs work. Ash Prime Systems has a tiny drop chance? Well, good thing the missions that drop it also drop a bunch of other stuff so that people will keep running them even after they've built their Ash Prime. And oh, hey, now someone has an extra. Better put it on the AH so they can get back to actually playing the game! And now someone who has cash but no time to grind can buy it. Everybody wins! I really don't see why people are so stubborn about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wartex1 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Here's an idea: Have public trading in Relays or something and allow for "Advertisements" that can be viewed at a Terminal. Each "Advertisement" goes under a category and certain items could be searched for. You still have to trade with that person, but the advertisement shows whether the player is online or not. Advertisements would of course be taken down after a few days. That way, it allows for a more easily used trading experience without problems that an auction house could create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaddy Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Here's an idea: Have public trading in Relays or something and allow for "Advertisements" that can be viewed at a Terminal. Each "Advertisement" goes under a category and certain items could be searched for. You still have to trade with that person, but the advertisement shows whether the player is online or not. Advertisements would of course be taken down after a few days. That way, it allows for a more easily used trading experience without problems that an auction house could create. I first saw this in Cabal where people could turn their character into a shop anytime they want and advertise stuff while they sleep or anything. Decent idea but ultimately has its own pros and cons too. Many people create multiple clones to see all their junk and the server becomes something like relay day when hoards queue up to wait for Baro So...change the drop rates. I still don't see that other MMOs are more stingy than Warframe in terms of giving out valuable things every run, but if you insist that the only way for an AH to work is to change the drop rates, then screw it, change 'em. If Warframe has a decent-size active playerbase then it's virtually guaranteed that both buyers and sellers will come away satisfied from an AH system eventually. That's how other MMOs work. Ash Prime Systems has a tiny drop chance? Well, good thing the missions that drop it also drop a bunch of other stuff so that people will keep running them even after they've built their Ash Prime. And oh, hey, now someone has an extra. Better put it on the AH so they can get back to actually playing the game! And now someone who has cash but no time to grind can buy it. Everybody wins! I really don't see why people are so stubborn about this. Dont get me wrong. I'm against AH for different reasons. But first, going back to my post, everyone is still talking about AH and chats and trading and platforms. It is very very simple problem really. The economy is in peril. Fix it. Someone said something about way different WTB/WTS prices? Thats called spreads. High spreads signal an illiquid/thin market and/or a market with imperfect information. Why? Because as good a gesture as WFT is, prices are not static. It is dynamic and based on demand and supply which changes all the time. Tl;dr, 2 problems. Illiquid market, imperfect information On to the fabled AH. AH does help with the imperfect information part because you get to see bids in real time. This benefits the seller. My (personal) gripe with the AH is not so much killing the game as much as creating a whole new set of problems for it. The pros and cons have been discussed to death but ultimately, sellers championing for an AH would be badly mistaken if they believe the AH is all upside for them. I'm not going to elaborate more before it becomes a rehash of information or it becomes a paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichelPostma Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Auction house is no good idea, too much meddling with the economy never work our and hurt my Capitalist heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Griffin-745 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Guys. But just look at how much eBay has killed our economy! We can let that happen to warframe too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraccoDoom Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Just make a hybrid action house, Like in Wakfu. Every mine city(Relay) had Auction board, but the amount of ppl selling in the city was limited by space, you could put you Haven Bag(portable house/store) on free market space in the city(market space was limited) Now here comes the tricky part: -You can only sell in one City(Relay) and you items are shown only in this City Auction Board(Relay Board) -You can only sell max 10 items. -You can only sell on auction house if you have your Haven bag on free market space, that means you have to physical stay there(online or offline) -You can't change the price of items till you stop selling( you can stop selling when ever you want but you free market space and get CD on next claim) -You can logout with Haven Bag in the space, after that it will sell your items for 12h or 24 -You can sell only for max 12h or 24h after that time your automaticly kicked out from Auction Bord and market space you occupied and can't clime next one till 5 min or 15min have passed. -You can only reserve ONE open market space by physicly finding free one in the city(relay) and putting your Haven Bag there(this is, so no one can automate the process with easy macro) -Auction Board has tax, Any items you sell is taxed (tax can vary form Relay to Relay or something) When Buying form Auction Board When you see something you like, you click the name of the seller and you will be show to his market space where you can buy the item, while there you can see what else he is selling if you want to. ( I know that in the newer version they made it possible to buy from Auction Board, but I don't like it ) This Auction House has many mechanics specifically designed to prevent over flooding market with items, and price undercutting, is a money sink on itself to, thanks to Tax on sold items) I should add that this system can live next to trade chat as an alternative Edited August 12, 2015 by DraccoDoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinryusai Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 A simple solution would be a link in game to the trading post so everyone actually uses it. Until the trading post comes to the relays where people go to a terminal and search for whatever item they want and reply to the post or PM the seller. simple solution. No more straining your eyes staring at chat all day wondering when you'll ever earn plat. No more void trekking getting junk that never sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorrTerek Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 On to the fabled AH. AH does help with the imperfect information part because you get to see bids in real time. This benefits the seller. My (personal) gripe with the AH is not so much killing the game as much as creating a whole new set of problems for it. The pros and cons have been discussed to death but ultimately, sellers championing for an AH would be badly mistaken if they believe the AH is all upside for them. I'm not going to elaborate more before it becomes a rehash of information or it becomes a paper. I push for an AH, but honestly I'd just settle for anything better than what we have now. AH is my main experience with online gaming markets, so that's what I propose, but I'll happily listen to any suggestions except "Leave it the way it is because it's fine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyreuzs Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 WIth other Words: You: Wtb: Item Everyone: WTS: ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ ITEM/ ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ Everyone: WTS: ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ ITEM/ ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM / ITEM / ITEM/ITEM / ITEM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now