Dear Devs: The Current Dojo System Is Making You Lose A Lot Of Potential Profit (Solution For Big Vs. Small Clan Included)

[Luxangel7]

I'm pretty sure DE is charging exactly what they desire to charge for the new content. "loss of potential profit" is fine to say put it isn't like people like you or me have any real insight on why things are priced as they are.

 

 Personally I think the set up right now is nice. Been a while since a huge chunk of content you earned by really buckling down and playing a ton has been added. We where in serious need. 

 

It is true that I do not have access to the numerical data behind their pricing decisions. However, the ratios present in the general concept of how things work now support my conclusion even without numerical data. 

 

It is quite literally impossible that the amount of clans now will spend anywhere even near the amount of forma that would be spent by introducing the minimum forma per player as outlined in my OP.

 

The same principle is true in tax theory. If you have 15% paying extremely high taxes while the rest are paying nothing, it will never come near the total amount if 100% of people were paying a low to normal tax. (unless the 15% are contributing an unrealistic, theoretical amount of money, then anything is possible of course)

 

Also: while I agree that we were in need of a large quantity of content, the objective fact remains that it was implemented atrociously in regards to profit maximization and being tailored to suit the needs of many players, not just one type. (ie:the large clans)

Edited May 25, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Sada_no_Fujin]

I woulddnt mind out right buying rooms with plat. more reasonable then the current system for a clan <10

[Reiken]

Are you insane? More forma depending on how many members are in a clan? Nothing would get built then.

As it is I find the forma cost to build anything ridiculous. It's a rare resource that you can only get from the void which you can only access through being lucky enough to find a key, unless you want to buy your way in.

It already costs an absurd ammount of materials. I don't see why the Forma should even be there when Forma is also what's used to build polarize your weapons and change a slot into a polarity that'll further specialize your weapon into what you want it to.

Seriously guy. You're thinking far too much from an all profit point of view.

I wouldn't mind forma if construction worked this way:

A) Build with absurd ammount of resources. Fine.

B) Build With Forma because it costs real money bucks and seems to be pretty damn rare. I went through 5 voids with clannies and we didn't see a single drop of forma so that was 5 bucks down the drain.

 

Not that we didn't love the new tileset. Enemies were a bit lacking though.

 

C) Alternatively you can get rid of Forma all together in construction and use some odd hybrid model of materials + platinium where platinium = some ammount of resources. Actually you can probably do the same with the Forma.

POINT BEING.. Forma is far too rare to really be used as a construction material. It screws the free players, regardless of how dedicated they are. It should be a shortcut towards construction. An "I really don't want to use my precious materials I use for new toys on helping the clan.. Here have platinium equivalent stuff."  Ya know?

 

That's really my only beef.

I mean really. It costs like 1-5 forma for the hallways and they don't do anything useful for the clan, not directly anyway, and the forma costs only go up.

One building costs like.. 25-30 forma. That's 500-600 platinium which is about 30 dollars.

As for "Why should everyone get the benefits!? IT LOSES YOU MONEY!" Well then it wouldn't be a clan Dojo, skipey.

The Dojo needs to be reworked so it is fair to both the free and paying players. If the free players don't feel they're being screwed they're more likely to want to spend money. It's kinda something they need to teach in buisiness classes. Not screwing your customers that is.

Speaking of which I need to pick up more plat, lol.

[Blatantfool]

Perhaps Forma wasn't really ever supposed to be a serious source of income? Just a thought. After I saw how it worked in drops it occurred to me that really the option to buy it was kind of silly. I don't think it exists for anyone but the most impatient folks.

 

 You'll always be able to get your hands on a Forma in order to bling out your favorite weapons. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 The Void Key pack would probably be the juicy piece of Plat content for this patch. 

 

 

 

 Anyway - all that aside - u8 wasn't really trying to flesh out the cash shop even more. They added plenty to it, yeah, but really all the important content is in the meat of the game this patch. You have to play the hell out of Warframe to get things through Research or what have you.

 

 Warbros, the clan I'm with, has a complete Dojo at this stage. We are waiting on research to finish in order to make us some Prods and Lasers. I think we are well on the way to having the Detonite tech tree under way as well.

[evilfluffy]

I said it before and I will say again forma for upgrading weapons and warframes(multiple times even) is ok, the amount of normal resources and credits is ok (small clan), but forma is absolutely not I would be ok farming control module even if we needed 50 or more.

[krisp]

Hahahaha oh wow.

 

it's a great idea from an economics standpoint (imagine! we could FORCE EVERYONE TO PAY! genius!) but falls flat on its face from a game design standpoint.

 

Have you put any thought into what problems this would generate for clans? For one, you'd have to have some way of seeing who has donated forma and who hasn't for each room in particular. For a clan leader with, say, 700 members, that would mean kicking most people out from his clan because most people are inactive. Even for smaller clans, one inactive member means you're screwed out of upgrading any part of your dojo. Can you not realize how awful that is?

 

Second, the solution to making small clans viable is most certainly not making large clans extinct. Any large clan will have inactive members, people who perhaps log once or twice a week. In that case, waiting for a week to get one set of dojo rooms up is... less than ideal.

 

And what about the people who genuinely can't afford to buy Forma, either because they don't have online credit cards or are living on their parents' money/are broke? Either start farming and hope you get lucky, or make possibly hundreds of people wait for you for who knows how long. One forma for each room? Better farm 5 forma REAL FAST, and forget about adding polarity slots to your weapons, that ain't gonna happen soon.

 

No, this idea would break clans and cripple part of the playerbase. People will not be happy. It's expert economic suggestions like these that are plaguing the gaming industry nowadays (not related, but I wanted to point this out).

[BETAOPTICS]

I heard that that at least the materials should be scaled by the clans actual size as DE claimed it would but due to a bug it does not currently do so. On the top of that as they start to make Forma and other (?) alert missions more common (they should be nearly as common as artifacts are now) and also materials as (?) alert mission awards things should slowly get better.

Fix the bugs, balance the system out and let us see if the decisions you've made are any good, maybe then we can talk about the future of Dojo's and what to do about them if there are any reasonably flaws.

[Luxangel7]

Are you insane? More forma depending on how many members are in a clan? Nothing would get built then.

 

I think you may have misunderstood or misread what I was saying in the OP. If you take another look you'll see that my suggestion wasn't that every member donates 1 forma to build something. My suggestion was

 

a) The room itself costs 1 forma to build

b) Every member who wants to access it after it has been built would spend one forma to do so.

 

Therefore, things get built in a much more reasonable manner, and a bevy of other positive effects come into play, which I outlined in my OP.

 

Perhaps Forma wasn't really ever supposed to be a serious source of income? Just a thought. After I saw how it worked in drops it occurred to me that really the option to buy it was kind of silly. I don't think it exists for anyone but the most impatient folks.

 

 You'll always be able to get your hands on a Forma in order to bling out your favorite weapons. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 The Void Key pack would probably be the juicy piece of Plat content for this patch. 

 

 

 

 Anyway - all that aside - u8 wasn't really trying to flesh out the cash shop even more. They added plenty to it, yeah, but really all the important content is in the meat of the game this patch. You have to play the hell out of Warframe to get things through Research or what have you.

 

 Warbros, the clan I'm with, has a complete Dojo at this stage. We are waiting on research to finish in order to make us some Prods and Lasers. I think we are well on the way to having the Detonite tech tree under way as well.

 

Uh you might have lost me. You speak of forma as if it were a resource that is easily come upon. I have been playing consistently since update went live and have yet to even receive a single void key much less forma...not that I'm impatient, I just don't understand your implied ease for finding forma...

 

I don't know whether or not U8 was meant to flesh out the cash shop more, but if it wasn't then that in itself is another mistake. Because every update ideally should be balance to maximize profit revenue while simultaneously balance it for free players. This latest update failed in both regards. (in reference to forma I mean)

 

And while I am happy for you and your clan, you are lending credence to my original argument. Now let's assume that a majority of members in your clan contributed forma and resources to building it. That's obviously not the case, but let's assume so for the sake of this hypothetical.

 

Even if we assume that, there is still a huge problem in terms of net profit loss of any and all future members who join your clan. They will have no reason (or method) to spend forma on rooms and dojo abilities your clan has already unlocked.

 

This system puts the onus on the dev team to continuously create new content in order to justify ever new forma sinks, regardless of how useful or desired they may be.

 

Now if you go back and compound this issue with the fact that our original hypothetical assumption is almost most certainly not true, where instead a select few donate to the creation of the dojo and others just reap the benefits, then the entirety of the problem begins to become more evident.

 

Hahahaha oh wow.

 

it's a great idea from an economics standpoint (imagine! we could FORCE EVERYONE TO PAY! genius!) but falls flat on its face from a game design standpoint.

 

Have you put any thought into what problems this would generate for clans? For one, you'd have to have some way of seeing who has donated forma and who hasn't for each room in particular. For a clan leader with, say, 700 members, that would mean kicking most people out from his clan because most people are inactive. Even for smaller clans, one inactive member means you're screwed out of upgrading any part of your dojo. Can you not realize how awful that is?

 

Second, the solution to making small clans viable is most certainly not making large clans extinct. Any large clan will have inactive members, people who perhaps log once or twice a week. In that case, waiting for a week to get one set of dojo rooms up is... less than ideal.

 

And what about the people who genuinely can't afford to buy Forma, either because they don't have online credit cards or are living on their parents' money/are broke? Either start farming and hope you get lucky, or make possibly hundreds of people wait for you for who knows how long. One forma for each room? Better farm 5 forma REAL FAST, and forget about adding polarity slots to your weapons, that ain't gonna happen soon.

 

No, this idea would break clans and cripple part of the playerbase. People will not be happy. It's expert economic suggestions like these that are plaguing the gaming industry nowadays (not related, but I wanted to point this out).

 

I would suggest carefully weighing the merits of your conclusions before laughing in the face of others ideas.

 

There is absolutely no need for clan leaders to see or check who has used forma to access a certain room. This is a mechanic that is entirely automated by the devs implementing a resource for unlocking a door/force field/whatever. Consequentially, the clan leader has no reason to kick anyone, inactive or not. When that member comes online, they will spend whatever forma they desire to access whatever rooms have been built.

 

I never suggested nor advocated the elimination of large clans. You also either misunderstood or misread: I am not advocating that each person give one forma to build a room. The room is already built by the architect of the clan. Once it is built, then each member spends forma to access that room. There is no need to either wait for anyone or anything of the sort. Again, your concern about inactive players doesn't enter into the equation.

 

People who play for free will be earning forma just like they currently earn catalysts and reactors, with the added chance of void mission rewards. Sure the added chance is rng on top of rng, but it still makes forma more available than reactors and catalysts. Again, I think due to you misunderstanding how my idea works, you imply that others wait for a member who has not donated forma, this is not the case. (see above)

 

I understand your reactions when based on the misinterpretation of my idea. However, please take another look at what I wrote and you'll see that all your concerns (at least the ones you mentioned previously) will be gone. And please consider that while my training and profession is indeed in the field of economics, I am by no means an executive over at EA trying to charge you for reloading your gun. 

 

When I wrote this suggestion, it was because I am a gamer of WARFRAME first, who also happens to know certain things about economics and finance. And my goal writing this thread was to help DE fix what I perceive to be a very large error from a business stand point, while at the same time solving many of the current problems from a game play perspective. Once you reread and clear up the misunderstanding you had, I hope you will feel the same way. :) 

Edited May 25, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Blatantfool]

Why would they need to spend Forma to improve the Dojo when it is equally attractive to obtain it in order to add Polarity slots to weapons? 

 

 That and there will likely be continued expansion upon what a Dojo is built to include. Warbros may have all the Tech finished but that doesn't really make a dojo complete. They'll add more over time and we'll likely build it because it provides a shared goal and that is actually pretty fantastic. Even a big clan like Warbros is having to focus a bit on this stuff to complete it.

 

 

 The Weapon and Warframe pool is ever expanding, meaning more potential places to spend Forma. 

 

 The Dojo system is going to change over time too, meaning more places to spend Forma.

 

 

 It is a wait and see thing.

[rhoenix]

At this point, the key issue is finding Forma, since it's not only useful to add polarity slots to weapons & warframes, it's also necessary for Dojo rooms.

This point got brought up in another thread, but making Forma slightly easier to get; either through crafting recipes, through Alerts, or even setting it as uncommon drops in Orokin areas would resolve this issue without creating a possible income issue when it comes to Forma for DE.

The issue is that Forma is so useful for so much that I could easily spend 20+ forma just on myself, for changing polarities on my weapons & warframes - let alone the huge Dojo costs for it.

Given the experiences of many people here so far, including myself now to a lesser degree, my best and most equitable suggestion would be to make Void Keys slightly more common than they are now, and available as rare drops from normal enemies, as well as Forma being available through Alerts and as drops from enemies in Orokin areas.

Those two changes wouldn't make it exactly easy to get your hands on Forma, but certainly less imposingly difficult, especially since there are excellent reasons to use Forma even after the Clan's Dojo is completed.

Edited May 25, 2013 by rhoenix

[Luxangel7]

Why would they need to spend Forma to improve the Dojo when it is equally attractive to obtain it in order to add Polarity slots to weapons? 

 

 That and there will likely be continued expansion upon what a Dojo is built to include. Warbros may have all the Tech finished but that doesn't really make a dojo complete. They'll add more over time and we'll likely build it because it provides a shared goal and that is actually pretty fantastic. Even a big clan like Warbros is having to focus a bit on this stuff to complete it.

 

 

 The Weapon and Warframe pool is ever expanding, meaning more potential places to spend Forma. 

 

 The Dojo system is going to change over time too, meaning more places to spend Forma.

 

 

 It is a wait and see thing.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the question you pose. Forma is already required now to complete dojo rooms. I am not introducing the concept of spending forma, merely proposing a solution to the business error of missing out on a huge segment of their client base for profit, as well as the gameplay error of smaller clans not being able to do anything at the moment.

 

The fact that they will add more content over time is a given. However, that doesn't solve the current problems in any way whatsoever. Actually it only exacerbates the issue by adding more content onto an already flawed framework system.

 

I agree with you that there will be more additions to the dojo and new warframes and new weapons, hence more ways to spend forma. However that's not the issue. I'm talking about dojos exclusively. And right now the way the system is set up it encourages everyone who is not in a mega clan to join a large clan, and then just sit back and wait for the people who contribute to finish farming the necessary resources.

 

My solution solves this problem as well as provides a method for smaller clans to achieve the same results as larger clans, with the same amount of comparable work and effort.

 

I don't mean to be immodest, but if you look at the suggestion on all its merits and implications, it really does solve the issue beautifully. (of course, I'm biased it being my suggestion and all, but you'll forgive me a bit of subjective opinion every once in a while :] )

[Blatantfool]

So the problem is that big clans act like big clans?

[Lord.Finster]

I agree with the OP. I've identified these problems myself and I don't even have a degree in finances.

 

Paying real money to acces content is the thing that has to be done by the devs but Ops solution is more elegant and fairer for everyone.

 

If I were the devs, I would completely eliminate the Forma aspect from dojo construction.

Instead the Dojo can be completely built with ingame resources.

 

However, to unlock a specific room, every player has to obtain a key that can be bought with 20 platinum.

 

Of course, you cannot expect to charge people for hallways or non-functional rooms like reactors that will be built and never visited again.

Staring at a generator is only funny for so long, but a lab will be useful forever.

Having access to a generator might increase the amount of energy players start with in a mission. Small things matter.

 

In other words: If you want to charge us for rooms, add ingame functionality to them.

[Tetsmeha]

If you only need forma to build and gain access to the dojo rooms, everyone is just going to complain about forma drop rates or how it's P2W because people who pay plat can instantly build the entire clan hall with absolutely no gameplay involved. It's practically making forma a lighter version of Reactor/Catalyst except someone has to get or pay for one more just to create a room.

[Luxangel7]

So the problem is that big clans act like big clans?

 

No the problem is two fold:

 

a) Players have no need to spend any forma or resources. Just join a big clan and wait for others to do the work for you, then get your goodies.

b) Players in small clans have no chance to build anything decent, much less a complete dojo, due to extremely large quantities of resources and forma required.

 

My suggestion solves both problems while posing advantages both to the dev team and the player base with virutally no down side, apart from the usual "farming stuff takes too long" which is a complaint that will always be present from someone no matter how reasonable a solution is enacted.

 

If you only need forma to build and gain access to the dojo rooms, everyone is just going to complain about forma drop rates or how it's P2W because people who pay plat can instantly build the entire clan hall with absolutely no gameplay involved. It's practically making forma a lighter version of Reactor/Catalyst except someone has to get or pay for one more just to create a room.

 

People will always complain about drop rates no matter what.

 

All the large clans who have already made complete dojos certainly didn't farm the lage amount of forma required, I assure you. They bought it. It is already pay to play right now. (for the dojo mechanics)

 

Right now it is already with the same mechanics of reactors/catalysts, except the current system fails on two major fronts:

 

Smaller clans have no way to effectively meet the requirements, and large clans attract tons of "freeloader" players who just wait for others to make dojo stuff and then get the benefits for free.

 

My suggestion would resolve both issues, as well as have the several positive side effects described in the OP.

[Blatantfool]

No the problem is two fold:

 

a) Players have no need to spend any forma or resources. Just join a big clan and wait for others to do the work for you, then get your goodies.

b) Players in small clans have no chance to build anything decent, much less a complete dojo, due to extremely large quantities of resources and forma required.

 

My suggestion solves both problems while posing advantages both to the dev team and the player base with virutally no down side, apart from the usual "farming stuff takes too long" which is a complaint that will always be present from someone no matter how reasonable a solution is enacted.

 

 

 Well, can't speak for the masses but I see it like this.

 

 a) This only helps somewhat. First - if you are in a really big clan like AsurO, Gryphus, Warbros or whatever then odds are even without you they are blazing through that stuff. In the end the tech tree related good are still going to have to be bought from the Oracle and built through your Foundry anyway. It seriously can't do all the work for you. 

 

 b) This will likely be addressed. I'm not sure how, I'm not sure when. But I'm fairly certain DE is well aware. Now is simply the time for testing. Seeing how quickly different clans truly ARE managing to accomplish this sort of thing. That is a very important bit of data to have when picking a course of action.

 

 

 As for your suggestion, eh. I don't have a particularly strong opinion about it either positive or negative. Maybe it could work - maybe it wouldn't. A little more time is still needed.

[Tetsmeha]

No the problem is two fold:

 

a) Players have no need to spend any forma or resources. Just join a big clan and wait for others to do the work for you, then get your goodies.

b) Players in small clans have no chance to build anything decent, much less a complete dojo, due to extremely large quantities of resources and forma required.

 

My suggestion solves both problems while posing advantages both to the dev team and the player base with virutally no down side, apart from the usual "farming stuff takes too long" which is a complaint that will always be present from someone no matter how reasonable a solution is enacted.

 

It's delusional to think that big clans will recruit nobodies who they know will not contribute anything to the guild. Big clans will reach guild content because they have to work less. Resource farming and Forma farming is divided more the larger a clan becomes.

 

 

All the large clans who have already made complete dojos certainly didn't farm the lage amount of forma required, I assure you. They bought it. It is already pay to play right now. (for the dojo mechanics)

 

I won't deny large clans paying for forma. It's no different from paying for alert only weapons or frames. They pay to skip the waiting part.

But those clans still had to play the game and farm for the in-game resources. With your system anyone with money can build and access guild content without even playing the game.

[Luxangel7]

It's delusional to think that big clans will recruit nobodies who they know will not contribute anything to the guild. Big clans will reach guild content because they have to work less. Resource farming and Forma farming is divided more the larger a clan becomes.

 

 

 

I won't deny large clans paying for forma. It's no different from paying for alert only weapons or frames. They pay to skip the waiting part.

But those clans still had to play the game and farm for the in-game resources. With your system anyone with money can build and access guild content without even playing the game.

 

I'm sorry but if anything is delusional it's believing that clans will have some sort of interview process and follow up like a corporation would. Do you know how many clan invitations I've received? And two from clans that were quite large. All because I was a little nice in game and got along well. Now please tell me more about how once I'm in I'm going to all of a sudden become Mr. Altruism and donate my rare items and materials to them...

 

My system by no means makes everything available without playing the game. I am simply proposing a more balanced approach that will simultaneously create greater revenue for DE as well as balance requirements for smaller clans. Maybe you misunderstood? The Idea was to scale down the necessary materials to build the rooms, and then every player submits an amount of forma and resources tailored to one person's capability for farming / purchasing. That way you have increased revenue, balanced gameplay, and equal effort on the part of EVERYONE in the clan to attain the benefits they want.

 

From your comments I would surmise that if you took another look at my OP you might get a better understanding of what I was saying, as it seems there was a misunderstanding. :)

[Exterminatus]

Smaller clans have no way to effectively meet the requirements, and large clans attract tons of "freeloader" players who just wait for others to make dojo stuff and then get the benefits for free.

 

My suggestion would resolve both issues, as well as have the several positive side effects described in the OP.

 

And smaller clans still can't meet the requirement because it effectively requires everyone to have a credit card (and not everyone has a credit card especially in a MMORPG on the Free-to-Play model). The simple act of cutting down on the costs, easier and/or more availability (by adjusting drop rates or by increasing the amount of things that can drop it), or just flat out removing it from dojo costs would make it more viable for small clans already. But by asking for everyone to pay a forma tax you're screwing over small clans by making it so that the same friends and clanmates who play and socialize with each other are unable to enjoy or access the same content unless they're willing to fork over money or organize forma runs.

 

And what's with the obsession with "freeloaders?" By targeting what is effectively a non-problem demographic (assuming that they actually exist) you're punishing other players as collateral. Not everybody can dedicate time (or to be playing the same game to death thus killing motivation) to brave the RNG gambling for forma nor do they also have credit cards and spare cash to constantly toss at DE. Clans are not running a business, they're not an interest group that's reliant membership and money for influence, they're a way for like-minded players to come together and enjoy a game that they find fun.

[krisp]

I am not advocating that each person give one forma to build a room.

My mistake then, because that's exactly what I read.

 

So paying forma to gain access to a room instead of build it? Sounds a lot less awful than before, but still doesn't make much sense from a player perspective. Are we building these dojos, or renting them? What kind of clan leader would lock rooms that his own members contributed towards building behind a paywall? Anything you could make up to explain it would seem asinine and forced.

[Luxangel7]

And smaller clans still can't meet the requirement because it effectively requires everyone to have a credit card (and not everyone has a credit card especially in a MMORPG on the Free-to-Play model). The simple act of cutting down on the costs, easier and/or more availability (by adjusting drop rates or by increasing the amount of things that can drop it), or just flat out removing it from dojo costs would make it more viable for small clans already. But by asking for everyone to pay a forma tax you're screwing over small clans by making it so that the same friends and clanmates who play and socialize with each other are unable to enjoy or access the same content unless they're willing to fork over money or organize forma runs.

 

And what's with the obsession with "freeloaders?" By targeting what is effectively a non-problem demographic (assuming that they actually exist) you're punishing other players as collateral. Not everybody can dedicate time (or to be playing the same game to death thus killing motivation) to brave the RNG gambling for forma nor do they also have credit cards and spare cash to constantly toss at DE. Clans are not running a business, they're not an interest group that's reliant membership and money for influence, they're a way for like-minded players to come together and enjoy a game that they find fun.

 

My suggestion does not require everyone to have or use a credit card. It is a very simple and balanced approach. As I said before, with my system, after a member spends 3 forma they can already access their first lab. Spending 3 more forma will have them access all the other functional rooms. (at least as of right now, obviously more functional rooms will be added in the future I believe)

 

This is not an unreasonable metric. Like I said, if you consider that form will be available more often than catalysts and reactors, it makes perfect sense. I have only bought a reactor once, yet I have a total of 8 reactors and 5 catalysts. All from various free reward sources. Asking the player to use a little bit of forma, which remember, is a resource that can ALSO be obtained for free, is not the onerous requirement that you have made it out to be. The credit card would remain for those who don't want to wait.

 

I do not have an obsession with making everyone pay. And you misunderstand the focus of my argument. Clans are  not the focal point here. I talked about DE. They are a company, and the current model provides for an enormous mistake from a business stand point. My solution addresses that, while maintaining balance and solving major problems for the player (small clans).

 

Also, I don't understand your last points. I am not punishing anyone. If you think that someone having to either pay or farm for a resource to enjoy its benefits is punishment, then I'm safe in assuming you don't believe in using reactors or catalysts? They follow the same formula as forma. No one is advocating "constantly throwing cash at DE". Like I said. It's ZERO forma to access non functional rooms, THREE forma total to start enjoying your first lab, and 5-6 for everything. How is that an unreasonable requirement? And to your last point, clans are definitely not a business, but DE most certainly is. I would suggest you keep in mind that the clan dojos are a product of DE. As in a commercial product. No one is making this game just for the satisfaction of doing so, or to make anyone happy for free.

 

And if you currently think that the present system which has clans recruiting hundreds if not thousands of players just for bragging rights is really reflective of the true reason for clans, where as you and I both say "a way for like-minded players to come together and enjoy a game that they find fun" then you are sadly mistaken. Currently they are just anonymous mega entities that players who want the advantages they provide will join up with and wait until they can get their unlocked clan content for free.

 

 

My mistake then, because that's exactly what I read.

 

So paying forma to gain access to a room instead of build it? Sounds a lot less awful than before, but still doesn't make much sense from a player perspective. Are we building these dojos, or renting them? What kind of clan leader would lock rooms that his own members contributed towards building behind a paywall? Anything you could make up to explain it would seem asinine and forced.

 

It's ok, it can happen to misread something.

 

To answer your concerns, it would be easily explained thusly. You are certainly not renting them, but every player uses forma to "increase the energy" or what have you of that room so the room can handle the work load of another tenno. The idea isn't to "rent" a room, but to invest in a clan to permanently unlock their benefits. 

 

The clan leader is not locking the rooms behind a pay wall. The clan leader is already spending extra forma / resources to build rooms, organizing members, clan business etc etc. The clan members simply have the small responsibility of contributing a small amount of forma, in this case 3 to access the first lab (reactor, oracle, lab) in order to increment the "energy" or whatever lore reason the devs come up with.

 

A comparable example would be researching a weapon through the clan. Let's say it's a corpus assault rifle. Now imagine that it costs a catalyst to unlock this weapon for the clan. It will be the clan leaders (warlord, general etc) responsibility to spend that extra catalyst to unlock the assault rifle. However you cannot expect that every member who then builds the assault rifle should get a catalyst in that weapon for free right? They should have to farm it / buy it like any other catalyst.

 

I hope that explains a bit and clears up some of your misunderstandings. However, I would appreciate if you could avoid saying such things like "Anything you could make up to explain it would seem asinine and forced." You're saying that anything I say in the future, regardless of merit or truth, will make me sound like an &amp;#&#33;...it's quite frustrating to read such a comment coming from someone who already misread and misunderstood everything while calling me 'insane' and 'stupid' in a previous post. I'm happy to answer any doubts or opinions you may have, but let's try and stay polite. :)

[Avenwing]

My mistake then, because that's exactly what I read.

 

So paying forma to gain access to a room instead of build it? Sounds a lot less awful than before, but still doesn't make much sense from a player perspective. Are we building these dojos, or renting them? What kind of clan leader would lock rooms that his own members contributed towards building behind a paywall? Anything you could make up to explain it would seem asinine and forced.

That's exactly my problem with this solution and the current dojo costs. I myself have told my members to keep any forma they get for themselves and I will be footing the forma bill. After I get my 8k plat back that is.

[krisp]

You're saying that anything I say in the future, regardless of merit or truth, will make me sound like an &amp;#&#33;..

No, it was a general statement, not an ad hominem. Meaning that I don't see how you can explain this without people calling foul. Sorry if it came out otherwise.

 

This isn't about the clan leader though, it's about the game. Your suggestion doesn't let the clan leader give people free access even if he wants to. And what about inviting other people into and showing them your dojo? Would they have to contribute forma to be let in?

[Arlayn]

Many of these ideas are flawed... heres an idea that everyone will rage about though... Make owning a clan a premium membership system even though DE said no to it, at least DE would make a constant flow of money, and building a dojo would be WAAAAY cheaper. If the clan owner is the premium owner of course this would make the demands on members of the clan more demanding since the owner is spending real money to keep it functioning but at least no forma, and dojos hopefully would be easier to construct and faster with something like this instead, of making everyone gather 35,000 ferrite, 65,000 Salvage, 150,000 Nano Spores, 50,000 Credits, and 5 forma for a four way hallway which is non-sense. Small Clans like mine can't even gather that much supplies, I recently managed to fulfill the credits, and forma, but barely on the nano spores, and halfway I think on the salvage, and ferrite. Of course I can imagine the other things will be the most greatest pain of them all to build.

 

Edit: if clan owner stops paying then construction increases back to requiring forma, and insane amount of supplies needed like it is now again...

Edited May 25, 2013 by Arlayn

[Luxangel7]

No, it was a general statement, not an ad hominem. Meaning that I don't see how you can explain this without people calling foul. Sorry if it came out otherwise.

 

This isn't about the clan leader though, it's about the game. Your suggestion doesn't let the clan leader give people free access even if he wants to. And what about inviting other people into and showing them your dojo? Would they have to contribute forma to be let in?

 

  No worries, it was just a misunderstanding. :)

 

     I understand and agree with your concern, but it is also completely solvable. If a clan leader wants to give free access to a rooms benefits to a member then all DE would have to do is make a prompt in the dojo menu where the clan leaders can go and spend forma on behalf of a member to give them access. Simple, fun, and pro-teamwork/clan.

 

     For your second concern, I think there might have been some further misunderstanding between us. When I put forward my idea of spending forma to access the room, I meant to imply that once it is built anyone and everyone can walk into it, look at it whatever. However to actually use the menus/research/ dueling functions etc etc then they would have to use forma.

 

    With such a system, you can literally have as many clan members as you like taking a look around, hanging out with friends whatever, it's just to USE the rooms they need to contribute their forma.

 

Many of these ideas are flawed... heres an idea that everyone will rage about though... Make owning a clan a premium membership system even though DE said no to it, at least DE would make a constant flow of money, and building a dojo would be WAAAAY cheaper. If the clan owner is the premium owner of course this would make the demands on members of the clan more demanding since the owner is spending real money to keep it functioning but at least no forma, and dojos hopefully would be easier to construct and faster with something like this instead, of making everyone gather 35,000 ferrite, 65,000 Salvage, 150,000 Nano Spores, 50,000 Credits, and 5 forma for a four way hallway which is non-sense. Small Clans like mine can't even gather that much supplies, I recently managed to fulfill the credits, and forma, but barely on the nano spores, and halfway I think on the salvage, and ferrite. Of course I can imagine the other things will be the most greatest pain of them all to build.

 

Edit: if clan owner stops paying then construction increases back to requiring forma, and insane amount of supplies needed like it is now again...

 

   Well I'm sorry you think the ideas are flawed....without anything else on your end but that conclusion I can't really try and convince you otherwise....

 

However I don't see the end all solution being a blunt instrument approach of just making the dojos exclusive pay only content. That would be a complete disaster, both in terms of financial revenue for DE as well as player base that would be disillusioned and damaged beyond repair.

Edited May 25, 2013 by LuxAngel7