Why Do People Complain About How Rng And Grindy This Game Is?

[Merrexz]

See, what is the point of getting all this rare content? What will you do once you have all the frames, guns and gear fully forma'd and 'tatered?

Once upon a time, I, too, was addicted to the 'click for reward' gameplay (as in older games). Hours poured into grinding the drop tables and digging through information online for the Perfect build. Then I got a job, wife and kids.

The problem, as I see it, is that Warframe is a light and accessible kind of shallow and pointless entertainment - like solitaire. The only difference between solitaire and Warfame is that no-one will sit down and play game after game of solitaire just to play every single card combination, or to see one particular combination pop up. Yet people insist on playing Warframe in this manner.

Judging by the opinions voiced by the community, Warframe is braindead, simplistic and repetitive gameplay centered around a cool art style, with no other endgame than endless grind for ever more rare drops. Realise this. Play some rounds for diversion, then log off and do something else. Don't chase that elusive content behind the RNG barrier. If needed, take a break from the game and return when - and if - there is new content.

Too many players want this game to be something it is not. Playing Warframe is not terribly useful, and Warframe is certainly not a substitute for real life - so why chase perfection in it? Play the game for the same reason other games are played - for fun and diversion - and chase perfection somewhere else. Having been there myself I know perfectly well why we play even when it is not fun, so please don't take this as high-minded preaching - just some friendly advice from an oldish dude burned by the fire before.

I mean, I could have learned to play a wicked guitar instead of grinding for all that loot in Diablo 2 back then. What good are my uniques and ultrarares now?

Edited August 19, 2015 by Merrexz

[Kaisty]

1. Most of the content is not RNG though. There are plenty of weapons and frames you can make while hunting for rares. Upgrading a weapon/WF is not RNG. You make it stronger by using forma. How exactly is this RNG far worse than most ARPGs?

 

 

2. "lower end drops" showing up in the loot table? No matter what drops, you would consider it lower end if its common. Rare items would stay rare no matter what. So lower end drops in the loot table doesnt make a difference.

 

3. i made most of my plat (3k+) from non-RNG syndicate mods and weapons. And there are plenty of easy to get rare mods that can go for 5p. Those add up over time.

 

4. Its your fault for grinding until the game sickens you. I do my fair share of grinding too, but if its not my day, its not my day. i dont play a mission until i get salty. There is so much more to do. i havent gotten Ash prime yet, but i leveled my Equinox in the meantime. Its not like regular Ash isnt viable. Anything in this game that is necessary (besides catalyst/reactors) is relatively easy to get.

 

5. what is this other company with a game that has perfect grind? The grind in this game is nothing compared to MOST games of this type that i have played for 2k+ hours. The game is ABOUT grinding for gear. Without it, it would be a 10-12 hr game at best. Its the nature of the game.

1. I will agree that most of the items offered don't need to be grinded for the parts, but once you are done building and leveling those items the only ones left to get are the ones you have to farm for said parts, and I am not just mentioning the prime weapons / frames either.

 

2. While you may say that rare items stay rare and lower ended items on a table don't matter, you forget that the more items in a loot table, the bigger the dilution and the less of a chance at getting certain things from that table. Not many folks run a higher void mission to try and stock up on formas; they are looking for at least some prime part (even the ones they don't really need / want) because even if they can't use it, someone else can or they could trade it in for ducats.

 

3. Congrats on the making plat from syndicate stuff. Some folks are not into the syndicate side of things or into trading for that matter (either hearing horror stories or getting burned in a deal).

 

4. Yes, I did seem to "over grind" in this game over a six month period (a few games a day, then something else.) After putting in time here and there to try and get what I sought (or things just like it) it never came. Heck, I barely got the few prime items (and other grind a boss till you get all the part weapons / frames) because of how the RNG in this game works.

 

5. Blizzard's Diablo 2, Gearboxes Borderlands (1 and 2) just to name a few that I can recall easily. You may not get what you have been seeking, but you get something worth your time. Besides actual level progression, the items / weapons you get have their own style of look / function. Blizzard and Gearbox hide the grind behind story, loot, and progression while the RNG is kept in check to a degree. DE wrapped the grind with RNG and a sprinkling of loot here and there, but in the end the grind just looks like a person who decided to go commando/freeballing while wearing pants made out of large mesh fishnets.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

1. Most of the content is not RNG though. There are plenty of weapons and frames you can make while hunting for rares. Upgrading a weapon/WF is not RNG. You make it stronger by using forma. How exactly is this RNG far worse than most ARPGs?

Well these blueprints you talk about are build by resources that are rng based, sure as long it doesnt require nano spores, neurodes, neural sensors and orokin cells its not problem.

 

2. "lower end drops" showing up in the loot table? No matter what drops, you would consider it lower end if its common. Rare items would stay rare no matter what. So lower end drops in the loot table doesnt make a difference.

True. But still no-one wants to see common things at rotation C, a rotation wich is usually filled rare things, yet 90% of time drops common stuff.

 

3. i made most of my plat (3k+) from non-RNG syndicate mods and weapons. And there are plenty of easy to get rare mods that can go for 5p. Those add up over time.

Those are not rng based true, but with current highest obtainable MR rank, it does take 5 days get weapon(from less than 20k standing) from syndicate and at least 2 days get mod(from less than 5k standing) Unless you adventure in draco, thisis quite lengthy grind in all things considered.

 

4. Its your fault for grinding until the game sickens you. I do my fair share of grinding too, but if its not my day, its not my day. i dont play a mission until i get salty. There is so much more to do. i havent gotten Ash prime yet, but i leveled my Equinox in the meantime. Its not like regular Ash isnt viable. Anything in this game that is necessary (besides catalyst/reactors) is relatively easy to get.

No argument there, however still DE should consider less RNG-based approach. As for some burnout might be so bad that even lenghty breaks wont help. They comeback and plays mission then just say F it, this still isnt worth my time. For business something like that aint good, even if it happens rarely. There is always chance it will become more common.

 

5. what is this other company with a game that has perfect grind? The grind in this game is nothing compared to MOST games of this type that i have played for 2k+ hours. The game is ABOUT grinding for gear. Without it, it would be a 10-12 hr game at best. Its the nature of the game.

Dont know if you mean that good thing, but i wouldnt say its good if game is so shallow without grind.

[Thumper3]

See, what is the point of getting all this rare content? What will you do once you have all the frames, guns and gear fully forma'd and 'tatered?

The problem, as I see it, is that Warframe is a light and accessible kind of shallow and pointless entertainment - like solitaire. The only difference between solitaire and Warfame is that no-one will sit down and play game after game of solitaire just to play every single card combination, or to see one particular combination pop up. Yet people insist on playing Warframe in this manner.

 

 

 

Human nature.

 

It's why Pokemon exploded, and MTG, etc........as humans we WANT what we can't have, and we WANT all of them.  LOL

 

We need to collect everything, nature of our minds.  :D

[HalfDarkShadow]

4. ..... grinding until the game sickens you. I do my fair share of grinding too, but if its not my day, its not my day. i dont play a mission until i get salty. There is so much more to do. i havent gotten Ash prime yet, but i leveled my Equinox in the meantime. Its not like regular Ash isnt viable. Anything in this game that is necessary (besides catalyst/reactors) is relatively easy to get.

 

I will say, this definitely rings true.

 

Though, it varies person to person, but I personally pretty much do what you're talking about here. Also my goals playing this game are vastly different to some others. I never really played the same missions over and over and over again until exhaustion, just for one part for a Prime. After the course of the year, just playing because it's fun, I just ended up eventually getting all the Primed frames, even the times I bought the PA.

 

Sure, when I needed my last Glaive Prime piece, for a bit, it just would not drop for me. But do I play until it burns me out? No, of course not. It's going to be as grindy as you make it out to be.

Though to be fair, most of the time, you'll see me do the same T3/4 sab or intercept missions all the time, only because I enjoy playing it so much and the void tileset in general. Not because I particularly needed anything. But I come from a background of mainly growing up with heavy RPG games, that would be perceived as grindy. I mean sure that's how the games were designed like Warframe, but for an example like Disgaea, which is main selling point is that, coupled the fact I love the hell out of the game, it makes repetitiveness in games more tolerable for me. Though like I said, I like those kind of games. (just an f.y.e, you can clear a Disgaea game easily before you even hit level 100, but the main attraction to it though is after the story, and getting to level 9999, and getting ridiculous damage numbers in the millions, so take it as you will xD).

 

Digressions aside, if I don't get the part I wanted in a T4Defense run, so be it. I have tomorrow/this weekend/any other time to try again.

If I do a 40min T4Survival run, I'm sure as hell not going to it again right away, to the point of getting bitter about it. People just need to learn to cut their losses, and try again later I suppose~

 

But that's just me.

Edited August 19, 2015 by HalfDarkShadow

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

I think generally speaking if you really can't stand the RNG this game isn't for you. Complaining about it is one thing, it's healthy to vent from time to time, but if the grind in Warframe seems ridiculous to you every time you play then I can't see a long term future for you with Warframe. If you're going to progress then you're going to need to grind, and like it.

[Blippy]

The problem is that grinding is all this game is. You grind to get a thing that allows you to grind harder. And don't even try to counter with "MMOs are grinding too!" because even though that's true, MMOs have way more content and miscellaneous activities to keep someone from burning out.

 

Warframe has none of that. Since grinding and farming is the game, people try to win at it by finding the most efficient means to do so. Except when this method is discovered, DE will nerf its effectiveness to make sure that the grind is as long and soul-sucking as possible. Strip away the grind from Warframe, and all that's left is a shallow husk of a game with barely enough content to keep people playing for a week.

 

And the worst part is that you people like it. You like it when the grind is made worse, when efficient, effective strategies, nodes, or weapons are nerfed. You're quick to report these things to DE, hoping to see it gutted as quickly as possible. Because apparently people doing things better than you some how gets in the way or your own fun grinding.

 

So now different communities are changing the game. It's not just finding the most efficient means anymore. It's beating DE at their own game; taking advantage of their "sleek coding", keeping their methods secret, making red herring weapon tier lists to distract players from the real good stuff, and excluding DE from any conversations on gameplay, lest they get wind of something good and promptly nerf it.

 

This game has great potential, but it's kept down by DE's unprofessionalism and poor marketing practices. Unfortunately, both DE and the majority of the community are content to keep it that way.

[NeroGrave]

The thing is, we have to grind using RNG. Going 50+ runs over few months and still don't get what you want is really getting on your nerves sometimes, especially when you see that friend of yours getting it within 1 run. 2 years of playing and I still don't have Despair from Stalker, thank you RNG.

[PublikDomain]

Because RNG is a poor way to give items value, and grind is also a poor way to give items value.

[(XBOX)Archibald Jax]

Honestly don't care about the grind, I play to shoot things in the face. Repeatedly. I have or have had nearly everything in the game, a mission timer of over 51 days, and keep coming back because I like to talk trash with my friends and murder the solar system. I remember that this is a game, and the point isn't having the shiniest of toys but to have a good time with the ones I do have. This is why I have several formas in my ignis. It's why I have over 80 weapons in my inventory, and periodically sink formas into them. I have my favorite destructive loadouts, and they get heavy use in the void, but I like to break out my toys and goof off on random missions with some buddies now and then. I only forma them to keep them viable on higher missions or longer rotations. Variety makes the grind negligible, and keeping up with the Joneses is never a fun way to play. Mod the hek out of your ignis and set fire to a grineer survival now and then. It'll do your heart good.

[ograzzt]

Also have recently ran Sycorax, Uranus quite an amount of times (some 30 runs, I forgot). 8 waves, still no T4E keys. Instead I get T4D keys, which I have quite a sum of...

Or maybe you just don't know what you're doing? You can't get T4E keys from Uranus, only T4D, T4S and T4I. If you need finite mode keys you should farm it on mid tier planets like Saturn, Jupiter and so on.

[Elenortirie]

Every thread I open there's atleast a few posts in each stating how Warframe is an RNG or grindy game in a negative way.

Do people want everything given to them for free or have everything so easily obtainable? 

Do you complainers not realise that every top MMO is a grinder and RNG. 

They even focus on grinding and RNG too much .... you play a game to have fun .. so play for fun and things will come with time ... 

 

 

well there is a difference between free, challenging but not grindy to obtain, and extreme grind and rng.

 

community wants at least middle one wf is in state of last one.

 

and now if you came up with top mmos - tell me how GW2 is "grinder and RNG", tell me where is RNG grinder at EvE Online

 

see? already two examples that beats your statement.

 

and about your last statement - yeah sure but when i want to make my warframe shiny and that reaquires alot of formas and those requires materials that just decided to ignore my rng roll its difficult to not get irritated - especially considering that releveling it each time for same amounts of xp thing :P

 

and that was only the minor issue with rng based grind - now If I wanted to gt shiny prime warframe.....

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

Every thread I open there's atleast a few posts in each stating how Warframe is an RNG or grindy game in a negative way.

Do people want everything given to them for free or have everything so easily obtainable? 

Do you complainers not realise that every top MMO is a grinder and RNG. 

They even focus on grinding and RNG too much .... you play a game to have fun .. so play for fun and things will come with time ... 

 

 

Hi, communist generation ME complainer here complaining about things I would  normally complain about- here's some figures for you and I'm sure you can put this together yourself

 

 I just spent 3 hours trying to get a Rathbone Hammer Head. That's One sabotage archwing mission per every 2.5 minutes with speed running plus about 1 minute loads to and back from the ship. I have over half a dozen Rathbone Handles, A Dual Decurion Barrel, a Centurion Aegis (whose blade component does not have a drop table but I guess that's a jolly scavenger hunt to you eh? Half the fun is learning where to grind and then even more fun is doing that task again and again until you EARN that random casino slot pull- woooooooooooo) and more plastids than I can count...

 

Where is the fun in that? I work all day- I don't want to come home and punch another clock just to grind mindlessly to the point of feeling nauseated. Fact of the matter it isn't about wanting to be given anything it's that gamers like us want our effort to be reflect or rewarded in some way. We want to see a goal and achieve it- the way it is now there is absolutely ZERO SKILL IN RNG. By that merit you must be the best gambler in all of Las Vegas because you pulled the lever and got that jackpot- WOW MAN- NO ONE PULLS THE LEVER LIKE YOU DO-

 

you just an Initiate with just 5 post.

Bet you never been in T4 defense hunting for loki prime system

 

-NO ONE PULLS THE LEVER LIKE YOU GUYS- THAT LEVER PULLING IS WAY BEYOND THAT OF A 5 POST NOOB AMIRITE?!

 

It's this fallacy that makes games horrible. RNG is the worst thing about modern gaming and it especially sucks whenever it takes away from the things you'd rather be doing. Grinding for XP, you can do that and have fun. Grinding for Mastery or Syndicate locked Weapons? Perfectly fine. Grinding just to get a shot at RNG and doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over  again just to pull that lever? *sigh*... November 10th can't get here sooner...

Edited October 29, 2015 by (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco

[Mak_Gohae]

Because there is a difference between a moderate grind and a Korean MMO style endless grind fest. It's all about the time to reward ratio. If you get that ratio correct people will play your game for years, if you don't they'll abandon it. You have to be able to play that next few hours feeling good about what you are going to get for it, rather than hopeless. Warframe is rapidly approaching the point where attempting to acquire what you want can feel pretty hopeless, especially as far as void rewards are concerned. About the time you get your 43rd paris prime part, forma, etc. instead of what you are looking for, those next few hours start looking pretty bad.

 

This isnt even close to Korean-style or Western-style MMOs when it comes to how easier drops are.

I think a lot of people here just simply have not played looting MMOs.

A lot of people picked it up because it's a shooter and are treating like a shooter.

Which is fine but if you do a little research you will know that dropping in this game is actually nothing compared to the standard loot games where you actually go for months for a whole mess of gear.

[(PSN)sanemane213]

I dont know about you, but until you waste Hours of Your life trying to get that you may or may not get on your 1st or 60th try, then i see no point in you Posting this. There are Literally Vids on YouTube right Now showing how bad RNG is with this Game....And I've Played Borderlands for God's sake....And the RNG on that game was just....ughhh >_<

Edited October 29, 2015 by (PS4)sanemane213

[EthosP]

This isnt even close to Korean-style or Western-style MMOs when it comes to how easier drops are.

I think a lot of people here just simply have not played looting MMOs.

A lot of people picked it up because it's a shooter and are treating like a shooter.

Which is fine but if you do a little research you will know that dropping in this game is actually nothing compared to the standard loot games where you actually go for months for a whole mess of gear.

 

I think you're making broad assumptions. I have played every kind of MMO on the market, and I wouldn't be surprised if others here have too.

 

The issue lies in RNG under RNG. In most "looting MMOs", I'm thinking the likes of Diablo, PoE, etc., Is you can get gear from ANYTHING. I can go do whatever I want and have a chance of finding that piece of loot I've been looking for.

 

In Warframe, I need to do specific things to get what I'm looking for, getting railroaded into specific gametypes. For example, I've been farming Trinity Prime Systems for weeks. Which requires me to go get a T3 Mobile Defense key which has a lower chance to drop than other keys. Then I need to go do that mission type for a chance to get said item. One chance to get said item. All this to unlock a new class, which you don't need to do in most MMOs.

 

It gets frustrating when go through my foundry and see the only thing keeping that frame out of reach is RNG.

 

I'm hoping the new starchart will fix a lot of these issues.

[LunarTemplar]

because it's RNG, people *@##&#036; about RNG. it's a fact

 

you just an Initiate with just 5 post.

Bet you never been in T4 defense hunting for loki prime system

 

you really gonna be that guy? don't be that guy, no one likes that guy

[Mak_Gohae]

I think you're making broad assumptions. I have played every kind of MMO on the market, and I wouldn't be surprised if others here have too.

 

The issue lies in RNG under RNG. In most "looting MMOs", I'm thinking the likes of Diablo, PoE, etc., Is you can get gear from ANYTHING. I can go do whatever I want and have a chance of finding that piece of loot I've been looking for.

 

 

Well, what's the obvious difference between PoE, Diablo and Warframe?

The first two have different levels of gear, the first two have trash gear that you get rid of the second better one drops.

Warframe doesnt have trash or general gear. The closest Warframe has is the broken mods. If Warframe had grey, white, green, blue, etc, type of loo then we would have a discussion but it doesnt.

 

Hek, if a new weapon or frame that comes out isnt as good as the best of it's type it gets slam on the board hardcore for sucking and being a waste. 

 

 

In Warframe, I need to do specific things to get what I'm looking for, getting railroaded into specific gametypes. For example, I've been farming Trinity Prime Systems for weeks. Which requires me to go get a T3 Mobile Defense key which has a lower chance to drop than other keys. Then I need to go do that mission type for a chance to get said item. One chance to get said item. All this to unlock a new class, which you don't need to do in most MMOs.

 

It gets frustrating when go through my foundry and see the only thing keeping that frame out of reach is RNG.

 

I'm hoping the new starchart will fix a lot of these issues.

 

First, Diablo and PoE are not the type of MMOs being talked about. They are dungeon crawlers like this game is.

In actual MMOs you DO have to actually farm specific mobs to get specific blue drops or a specific pieces of a set.

That has been part of MMOs from day one.

[PublikDomain]

-snip-

na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-necro-post!

[robertgk2017]

Every thread I open there's atleast a few posts in each stating how Warframe is an RNG or grindy game in a negative way.

Do people want everything given to them for free or have everything so easily obtainable? 

Do you complainers not realise that every top MMO is a grinder and RNG. 

They even focus on grinding and RNG too much .... you play a game to have fun .. so play for fun and things will come with time ... 

 

 

People who complain about RNG or the grind-level of the game, should not play warframe    warframe is for grinders   who are the only people that do extremely well because they are used to this kind of thing.  plus grinders have no life, which is preferred because then they can spend 8 hours a day every day of the year grinding stuff.

[(PSN)Onyxflamegod]

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Because I have run a defense mission over 100 times, I still don't have the part, I hate defense missions, the part only drops from defense missions, and I dislike purchasing non-vaulted parts.

 

In other words, to get the gear that I want to have fun with, I have to spend literally hundreds of hours trudging through content that I highly detest. This is why people complain about RNG and farming; grinding works the same way.

[Kaisty]

You think the grind is bad here? Go play skyforge, takes a week of solid grinding to unlock a different class.

It takes a solid week (a bit less if you have premium status), but every class you unlock and complete gives your character more power and symbols to use. Plus, if you want premium status in that game, you can grind credits for it and then trade them for the paid currency (argents).

 

Then again, the RNG only shows up for the drops in the missions (amulets, weapons, side items, etc.) and for the events. Even people with horrible luck can fill all the nodes, while here if you are unlucky for the parts you need, you have to either trade for them (if they are trade able) or buy them for plat if they are sold in the marketplace.

 

Finally, while in Warframe our cosmetics can vary from Frame to frame, the only time you have to pay with argents to change anything in Skyforge is for body change. The clothes can all be earned through grinding and exploration without ever having to touch argents.

[KoinDuo]

missions are boring and you're forced to do the same stupid mission over and over to get a specific part of a weapon or warframe. no one wants to run a t4 defense in the same tileset over and over again just to get specific prime parts. not only that, the grind is perpetuated by more grind. E.G to get t4 defense keys you need to grind certain missions, and then once you get the keys you have to grind said keys to get stuff from the void. and most people don't have the luxury of spending over 10 hours in front of their computer just to get that one trinity prime part they're missing in order to build her, and even if they did, odds are they still wouldn't get it. thats the problem with this game. and DE promised to reduce the grind, to eliminate the S#&amp;&#036; drop tables, but they still haven't done that yet. all these issues coming together are what piss people off