Why I've Lost Trust In De

[RealPandemonium]

Frames should be balanced for infinite content as long as infinite content exists in the game.

Highlighting this in case people miss it.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Highlighting this in case people miss it.

Do you agree?

[MopUpCrewman]

Still waiting on that Boltor Prime nerf. I hear that the salty tears of power creeps are delicious.

 

One question though, why are some people getting so butt flustered over these changes while I'm here not caring one bit and enjoying the game like always? You never had Pilfering Swarm, Greedy Pull or any other augments before and you were doing just fine. Why is it such a big deal now?

 

If anyone can convince me that these changes will render the game unplayable and that it will make people stop enjoying it forever then good job.

 

I'll be farming materials for that new Archwing Melee weapon.

[FelisImpurrator]

Eb Excal: Although it can't insta kill (in high levels) or use syndicate mods. Even with just the basic mods EB is still one hell of a devastating ability

 

Gp Mag: They nerfed this ability for team so you can't camp. However as Mag I now get more loot then everyone and can still kickass with my other abilities.

 

Ps Hydroid: This was tick for tack. Although they removed it scaling with power mods (jesus that was a lot of loot) DE also allowed for enemies that come in contact with the tentacles to drop loot. So instead of just getting 2xloot form the initial kills, you'll also get 2xloot from kills while the tentacles are active.

On that note, all of these changes are to things DE initially implemented because they were cool and fun. Greedy Pull? It made thematic sense and we got to call our Mags Magpies. Pilfering Swarm? It made thematic sense and we got to have some actual pirate's booty. EB and Syndicate mods? Someone's Blade exploded and wrecked some enemies, and it was hilarious and badass, so we got to keep it for a bit. And Covert Lethality? It was meant to be the mod that would allow daggers to fit into the logical niche of King of Stealth Weapons.

 

DE removed them... because they were being used in the least cool and least fun ways possible. "Mag is useless without Greedy Pull! Every farm needs a Gmag!" "H Ophelia LF Pilfdroid, time to farm hundreds of thousands of resources with minimal effort in under an hour and remove the need to play a mission on this planet ever again!" "Excal should only use Prisma Skana/Prisma Cleavers/Jaw Sword because DPS DPS DPS!" "Let's use Covert Lethality to oneshot level 9000 enemies with Loki/Ash/Excal/Mirage!" Evidently, they underestimated player ability to take something that operates on cool/fun factor and milk every last drop of those things out of it for the sake of crunching more numbers faster.

 

Meanwhile, we still can't get a fix to the grind because Mesa and Nekros would just turn the new system into even more of a joke, people would glut themselves on a thousand cells/neurodes/neurals in a week, and then they'd start complaining about how there's nothing left to do, the game's too easy, DE I want my money back... only two options there. Either it gets worse (all the lootframes and the P42W frames get nerfed into oblivion) before it gets better (drop rates and affinity are rebalanced around not having a means of instakilling the map and dragging three times the loot out of every corpse with basically no effort), or one big update will drop and rework all those frames while overhauling progression, and with DE's understaffing the latter isn't very likely.

 

As for "not reading feedback", has anyone actually taken a look at recent patch notes and then comparing them to the latest bug reports? Several of the last few updates read like laundry lists of everything reported to be broken in the last week... plus some very old player-wishlist items from feedback.

[TheBrsrkr]

If you are having trouble hitting something with a melee weapon, especially since P2.0, then I don't know what to tell you. I just subconsciously expect people to be as good at the game as I am. I suppose expecting people to be on my level is a bit unreasonable, sorry.

Hit boxes are still broken you know, and there us a lack of forward momentum. But why isn't the Scindo Prime the best choice for Excalibur?

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I'm getting really tired of DE constantly releasing fantastic gear, only to nerf it later. I'm tired of putting forma into stuff that gets nerfed into oblivion. 

[Darkmoone1]

Who said we could?

Just as you reminded me of the purpose of forums, I'm reminding you of the role of the player and developer that's all. 

 

 

I'm getting really tired of DE constantly releasing fantastic gear, only to nerf it later. I'm tired of putting forma into stuff that gets nerfed into oblivion. 

This is what you get into when you play a game that changes faster than your normal AAA released game. Do you expect DE to leave such glaringly obvious yet powerful combination of gear out there and just leave it alone? 

[Tyrian3k]

I'm getting really tired of DE constantly releasing fantastic gear, only to nerf it later. I'm tired of putting forma into stuff that gets nerfed into oblivion.

The only think I really think they need to do in that regard is fixing it within a short time span. This is especially true for weapons.

Nerfing an overpowered weapon after more than half a year is bound to annoy many players.

Letting players get used to OP stuff isn't good since everything else feels bad afterwards.

In the ideal case they should release a weapon, watch it for a week and then tweak it in the next.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Tyrian3k

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

I can understand your point of view. It is hard to fund a game that changes with the wind. The back-and-forth along with past and present business decisions is the reason why my personal wallet has been closed since the Nova Prime Access pack.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Just as you reminded me of the purpose of forums, I'm reminding you of the role of the player and developer that's all. 

 

 

 

This is what you get into when you play a game that changes faster than your normal AAA released game. Do you expect DE to leave such glaringly obvious yet powerful combination of gear out there and just leave it alone? 

 

They've left other combinations like that unchecked for a long time. Like Nova Primes original molecular prime, that could make an entire room explode violently. Sure, they arguably do a lot of things in terms of balance, but it feels like just another layer of RNG to try and guess which piece of gear will be nerfed next.

[Empiren]

 *Inhales*

I love all the fanboy hate, but it won't really change the fact that this game is becoming more and more tedious and boring.

 

Yeah, it's due to the FoTM aspect.

If you can't see why any of those issues had to change - you don't have any feedback worth listening to.

"If you don't agree with me, I'm going to ignore you".
>seeing these post in the feedback forum is just sad.

 

At least DE isn't like Nexon or Perfectworld and there is communication between DE and the players. And just because one small, little, tiny thing changed and that caused you to lose trust in DE, probably means you shouldn't trust anyone at all.

Funny thing is though, it's a reoccurring problem with DE. Making content FoTM(man, i really need to make a video on this).

You can disagree with DE's vision for balance and business-model success. But couching it as THE reason why you won't reward DE for a value-filled F2P game just comes across as cheap and entitled to me. Making it wordy only reinforces my stance.

You don't want to spend money but don't want to appear cheap so you rip one of the most open relationships any developer has with it's fanbase?

 

I'd argue the ridiculous cost of platinum also plays a role in this.

Why? Everyone keeps forgetting WHY these things changed. It was intended that the syndicate mods work on EB. It WASN'T intended that they form a clear best choice that kills all weapon diversity. The effect the augment had on the game was unintended, and therefore changed. Why is this a big deal?

So instead of giving the players something to work for, we should just make all the weapons  work equally? 

Ok. So NO ONE will use these weapons now. You don't realize that these weapons are already inferior to others, that syndicate mod was the ONLY thing redeeming them.

 

They didn't form a clear best, people were using the Skana, Dual Cleavers, Daggers (I agree that this one needed nerfed), etc. 

 

Now that they have been nerfed, the Dakra Prime is currently the best option for EB.

You see the problem with DE's logic here? Their change, which was supposedly meant to add more variety, actually completely removed it.

Actually only the mods matter for EB. So no weapon is better for EB.

 

Again: Just less to look forward to and a direct nerf to EB.

The point is the mods that interact with EB. What you use for it is up to you, and now there's no advantages for specific weapons. If you want to use the Dakra, then do so, but it's not giving any advantage to EB, and that's what the change is about. If you use that because you find it the best and because of the 10%, then do so, but remember, 10% isn't 100%, and that 100% was one of the problems (the ones that matter in this change).
But if you want to keep playing the fool with the Dakra Prime argument, you can just keep doing so, because I'm not here to talk about which weapon is the best melee in the game.

 

The problem is that they took away syndicate mod purpose against the community's wish.

 

 

 

 

 

So basically, DE saw the feedback, and said "you know what, no, you guys can't have what you want and we want to kill the endgame even more"

 

 

Just wait, I be the hek will get nerfed.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Empiren

[TwiceDead]

 *Inhales*

 

Yeah, it's due to the FoTM aspect.

"If you don't agree with me, I'm going to ignore you".

>seeing these post in the feedback forum is just sad.

 

Funny thing is though, it's a reoccurring problem with DE. Making content FoTM(man, i really need to make a video on this).

 

I'd argue the ridiculous cost of platinum also plays a role in this.

So instead of giving the players something to work for, we should just make all the weapons  work equally? 

Ok. So NO ONE will use these weapons now. You don't realize that these weapons are already inferior to others, that syndicate mod was the ONLY thing redeeming them.

 

Actually only the mods matter for EB. So no weapon is better for EB.

 

Again: Just less to look forward to and a direct nerf to EB.

 

The problem is that they took away syndicate mod purpose against the community's wish.

 

 

 

 

 

So basically, DE saw the feedback, and said "you know what, no, you guys can't have what you want and we want to kill the endgame even more"

 

 

Just wait, I be the hek will get nerfed.

 *Inhales*

 

Yeah, it's due to the FoTM aspect.

"If you don't agree with me, I'm going to ignore you".

>seeing these post in the feedback forum is just sad.

 

Funny thing is though, it's a reoccurring problem with DE. Making content FoTM(man, i really need to make a video on this).

 

I'd argue the ridiculous cost of platinum also plays a role in this.

So instead of giving the players something to work for, we should just make all the weapons  work equally? 

Ok. So NO ONE will use these weapons now. You don't realize that these weapons are already inferior to others, that syndicate mod was the ONLY thing redeeming them.

 

Actually only the mods matter for EB. So no weapon is better for EB.

 

Again: Just less to look forward to and a direct nerf to EB.

 

The problem is that they took away syndicate mod purpose against the community's wish.

 

 

 

 

 

So basically, DE saw the feedback, and said "you know what, no, you guys can't have what you want and we want to kill the endgame even more"

 

 

Just wait, I be the hek will get nerfed.

Might want to edit this so you don't repeat the same thing twice, or even worse, inhale twice... Your lungs'll probably burst. 

[TheBrsrkr]

Wrong question. Instead of having an absolute best way of modding EB that limited you to those weapons specifically, you can use whatever weapon you want? Dex Dakra? Scoliac? Mk-1 Bo? No difference to EB. As advertised.

[Empiren]

Wrong question. Instead of having an absolute best way of modding EB that limited you to those weapons specifically, you can use whatever weapon you want? Dex Dakra? Scoliac? Mk-1 Bo? No difference to EB. As advertised.

Except now you are limited to the better melee outside of EB.

 

You have to remember: These weapons are already underpowered even with their mod.

 

I'll never bother with the Jaw Sword now, thanks DE.

[R34LM]

DE just despises having a meta in there game. Th syndicate EB as the second change they went back on, the first being synoid gammacor by first buffing it to top tier but then nerfing the ammo economy when they saw it reached the meta (obvious op arguments aside). They want every weapons and frame to be viable, but instead of bringing underpowered weapons up to that equal level they bring overpowered weapons down to a low standard.

Imagine if Lex prime, castanas, despair, hate, and other arguably underpowered weapons got the god treatment all at once like the synoid. You no have a plehtora of powerful weapons to choose from. Would people complain so much then? No, because then the new level of weapon standards has been established, and none would dare to nerf a wide array of weapons, rather focus on just one. Of course. the next argument would be the overall difficulty of the game being lower due to top tier weapons, but then you need to ask yourself what the game should be balanced for: prototype 2 god complex or dark souls tactical challenge? Warframe tries too hard, and fails, to give us so much power and give us a decent challenge at the same time.

[Tyrian3k]

Wrong question. Instead of having an absolute best way of modding EB that limited you to those weapons specifically, you can use whatever weapon you want? Dex Dakra? Scoliac? Mk-1 Bo? No difference to EB. As advertised.

It's essentially the lesser evil. Either we can only use the weapons with a syndicate mod or we're better off using a weapon that specifically does not use a syndicate mod.

Sure, you can mod e.g. the Prisma Skana the same way as any other weapon, but in the end it's pointless to take it if you don't take the syndicate mod.

The result of removing the effect of syndicate mods certainly won't make players not care what melee weapon they take so in the end, the chosen weapons will be the strongest melee weapons as usual.

[TheBrsrkr]

Except now you are limited to the better melee outside of EB.

You have to remember: These weapons are already underpowered even with their mod.

I'll never bother with the Jaw Sword now, thanks DE.

Were you going to bother with the Jaw Sword if the augments didn't work in the first place? And oh wow, now you're just limited to EVERY OTHER MELEE WEAPON IN THE GAME! So horrible!

[Empiren]

DE just despises having a meta in there game. Th syndicate EB as the second change they went back on, the first being synoid gammacor by first buffing it to top tier but then nerfing the ammo economy when they saw it reached the meta (obvious op arguments aside). They want every weapons and frame to be viable, but instead of bringing underpowered weapons up to that equal level they bring overpowered weapons down to a low standard.

Imagine if Lex prime, castanas, despair, hate, and other arguably underpowered weapons got the god treatment all at once like the synoid. You no have a plehtora of powerful weapons to choose from. Would people complain so much then? No, because then the new level of weapon standards has been established, and none would dare to nerf a wide array of weapons, rather focus on just one. Of course. the next argument would be the overall difficulty of the game being lower due to top tier weapons, but then you need to ask yourself what the game should be balanced for: prototype 2 god complex or dark souls tactical challenge? Warframe tries too hard, and fails, to give us so much power and give us a decent challenge at the same time.

I've stated this before but: DE is trying to promote FoTM content, presumably for the attempt at better sales.

 

 

 

Were you going to bother with the Jaw Sword if the augments didn't work in the first place? And oh wow, now you're just limited to EVERY OTHER MELEE WEAPON IN THE GAME! So horrible!

Well no, that's the point. Because DE patched it in I was going to apply the syndicate mod with EB.

 

I already had every other weapon in the game, you seem to forget this.

 

Having a better weapon is NOT  a downside, nerfing it when you make it better, is.

[TheBrsrkr]

I've stated this before but: DE is trying to promote FoTM content, presumably for the attempt at better sales.

Well no, that's the point. Because DE patched it in I was going to apply the syndicate mod with EB.

I already had every other weapon in the game, you seem to forget this.

Having a better weapon is NOT a downside, nerfing it when you make it better, is.

Not having a CHOICE is the downside here. If you wanted EB to be the best it could be, you were forced to use a syndicate weapon. They made EB use weapon mods instead of weapons themselves specifically to avoid this.

[Empiren]

Not having a CHOICE is the downside here. If you wanted EB to be the best it could be, you were forced to use a syndicate weapon. They made EB use weapon mods instead of weapons themselves specifically to avoid this.

You don't have a choice with mods either, so where is the arbitrary line drawn?

Oh because you had to meet criteria to equip a mod, it was bad? How?  How is that a bad thing? Everyone  has equal opportunity to get the mod and the weapon, so what's the problem.

 

 

From a design perspective, it gives the player something to look forward too and a reason to equip the weapon/use the mod.

 

But when you take that away, and then just leave it to the regular mods, it makes it seem like it's an unintended synergy.

 

Except that DE explicity patched it so that it would work.

 

 

 

To me:  This whole ordeal reeks of hypocrisy and FoTM content.

 

So it's fine that people are limited by life-strike availability or other mods, but when it comes to a mod that has a clear ability to gain, it's a problem?

I have no clue why DE sabotages their PR so much

Edited August 20, 2015 by Empiren

[Tyrian3k]

I've stated this before but: DE is trying to promote FoTM content, presumably for the attempt at better sales.

 

 

 

Well no, that's the point. Because DE patched it in I was going to apply the syndicate mod with EB.

 

I already had every other weapon in the game, you seem to forget this.

 

Having a better weapon is NOT  a downside, nerfing it when you make it better, is.

What DE is aiming for is for EB to have as little impact on your chosen melee weapon as possible. With syndicate mods affecting EB, that wasn't possible at all, so they removed that.

In a perfect world, EB could be modded separately, but that would likely require quite some effort to code in.

[TheBrsrkr]

You don't have a choice with mods either, so where is the arbitrary line drawn?

Oh because you had to meet criteria to equip a mod, it was bad? How?

From a design perspective, it gives the player something to look forward too and a reason to equip the weapon/use the mod.

But when you take that away, and then just leave it to the regular mods, it makes it seem like it's an unintended synergy.

Except that DE explicity patched it so that it would work.

What do you mean we don't have a choice with the mods? Berserker, Life Strike, True Steel and Organ Shatter, channeling mods are all choices you have to make, with none being superior or inferior but different.

You had to meet criteria that invalidated giving you the choice in the first place.

That's exactly what it didn't do. You didn't actuallyuse the Jaw Sword, uyou used its mods on EB. Not the same thing.

[Empiren]

What DE is aiming for is for EB to have as little impact on your chosen melee weapon as possible. With syndicate mods affecting EB, that wasn't possible at all, so they removed that.

In a perfect world, EB could be modded separately, but that would likely require quite some effort to code in.

Except by doing so: It makes the melee selection LESS.

 

(how are you guys not comprehending this).

 

Lets say I want to use X weapon because it benefits from a mod in synergy with EB and normally I would never touch X weapon.

 

 

Ok I can still use all other weapons, their synergy remains the same.

 

Now you remove X weapon's synergy.

 

 

Why would I bother using that weapon now? X weapon is clearly worse than other weapons.

 

 

 

So what you did was effectively remove more options than you originally had.

What do you mean we don't have a choice with the mods? Berserker, Life Strike, True Steel and Organ Shatter, channeling mods are all choices you have to make, with none being superior or inferior but different.

You had to meet criteria that invalidated giving you the choice in the first place.

That's exactly what it didn't do. You didn't actuallyuse the Jaw Sword, uyou used its mods on EB. Not the same thing.

 

PFFT WHAT?!!

None are superior? You really are going to lie to me and say that berserker isn't superior to another mod? That Life Strike isn't?

Blatant lying is blatant.

[TheBrsrkr]

Except by doing so: It makes the melee selection LESS.

(how are you guys not comprehending this).

Lets say I want to use X weapon because it benefits from a mod in synergy with EB and normally I would never touch X weapon.

Ok I can still use all other weapons, their synergy remains the same.

Now you remove X weapon's synergy.

Why would I bother using that weapon now? X weapon is clearly worse than other weapons.

So what you did was effectively remove more options than you originally had.

PFFT WHAT?!!

None are superior? You really are going to lie to me and say that berserker isn't superior to another mod? That Life Strike isn't?

Blatant lying is blatant.

Or I could use the channeling mods and send out a bunch or crazy OP waves. Or add in life strike with the channeling to heal without instantly running out of energy. Or use all the. 90% elementals to kick the raw damage up sky high. Or use fury instead of berserker. Or fury WITH berserker. Just because YOU like a build doesn't make it the only, and doesn't make it the best.

[TwiceDead]

Or I could use the channeling mods and send out a bunch or crazy OP waves. Or add in life strike with the channeling to heal without instantly running out of energy. Or use all the. 90% elementals to kick the raw damage up sky high. Or use fury instead of berserker. Or fury WITH berserker. Just because YOU like a build doesn't make it the only, and doesn't make it the best.

You have been countering the same argument over and over by now, I don't think the wall is going to budge.