Why De Was Wrong In Removing Eb Syndicate Synergy.

[TheBrsrkr]

Life Strike is optional.

[Monster-T]

My only argument against the removal of syndicate mods on EB is that it completely kills Excal channeling builds since sustainable self life restore is now limited to channeling. And don't say Life Strike is optional when we have so many goddamn shield ignore damage. We do sort of improve 'weapon diversity', which I hesitantly say since we're just really shifting the 'diversity' and strongly discouraging use of syndicate weapons on Excal. It's just trading build diversity for weapon diversity.

 

Oh well, channeling Excal was dead anyway with the stamina changes, so I'm not too miffed. Well played, DE.

Isnt the simple fact killing Channeling-EB-Builds that the autoparry of EB will deplete your energy pool in seconds when you are channeling?

Edited August 23, 2015 by Monster-T

[CapedBaldy]

Isnt the simple fact killing Channeling-EB-Builds that the autoparry of EB will deplete your energy pool in seconds when you are channeling?

Yes, that was a very huge quality of life nerf for Excal. It was still possible to use a channel build, though it was very annoying since you basically had to blind each time you wanted to start channeling. With a removal of a self-sustainable life gain in a game so full of large quantities of damage and anti-shield damage with no real mechanics asides from 'gain life back' addressing either, the loss of a syndicate mod was a double nerf that sort of killed channeling EB builds. It's just way too much hassle to play a channeling build on Excal anymore.

[Tveoh]

meh..  I'm staying out

 

Edited August 23, 2015 by Tveoh

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

It didn't. There's more viable melee weapons than weapons with 100% base damage augment mods. There's also utility melee weapons, and only one has an augment mod.

Logically or not, is up to the player to choose which weapon they will want to use, and as no weapon gives any extra benefit during EB, any weapon is a valid choice now.

 

Your preference does not mean anything as an argument, and just because you think that Dakra prime is the best it doesn't mean everyone will use it or even find it the best, which is actually the truth, not everyone is running around with a Dakra, Dragon or Scindo.

 

At this point, people acting like a wall and making faux arguments about the diversity being lowered is nothing more than a way to try to make DE enable the mods again for no good reason, they simply doesn't have a good argument for that, and to just glorify themselves with a victory that holds no value and that only decreases the value of their opinions.

This threads really need to get closed, they aren't going anywhere and at this point, this people are only trolling by copy/pasting the same silly "the best" argument (which is barely an argument).

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

[Empiren]

Life Strike is optional.

So were syndicate weapons.

[TheBrsrkr]

So were syndicate weapons.

Syndicate mods were quite simply the best mods to have. Since you couldn't have the mod without the weapon, I would say no, they weren't.

[Empiren]

Syndicate mods were quite simply the best mods to have. Since you couldn't have the mod without the weapon, I would say no, they weren't.

 

Life strike is also mandatory for "the best". Your point is moot.

[TheBrsrkr]

Life strike is also mandatory for "the best". Your point is moot.

Mandatory? Hardly. It's a choice. Sacrifice damage or CC for utility. Since syndicate mods provided all three, they were a requirement, not a choice.

[Empiren]

Mandatory? Hardly. It's a choice. Sacrifice damage or CC for utility. Since syndicate mods provided all three, they were a requirement, not a choice.

For the optimal build it's mandatory.

 

Again, you can say it's not all you want. The fact that every EB build worth salt will have that on there is proof enough.

Please, explain to me the reason to not have LS on a build meant for optimization.

[TheBrsrkr]

For the optimal build it's mandatory.

Again, you can say it's not all you want. The fact that every EB build worth salt will have that on there is proof enough.

Please, explain to me the reason to not have LS on a build meant for optimization.

More damage, better channeling efficiency, more attack speed, more damage, more CC, more finisher damage (not really used much) or Berserker. These are all things you can sub out LS for. I go for more attack speed since my lag makes everything too slow. They are also all factors that can "optimize" EB. Syndicate mods provided damage, CC and utility all in one slot i. e. Better than any one mod by itself. Therefore, best choice, therefore, lack of diversity. You can say it's mandatory all you want. Opinions differ from person to person on what is best. That's why they gave us the choice to put in whatever we think is best.

[Arcadiace]

More damage, better channeling efficiency, more attack speed, more damage, more CC, more finisher damage (not really used much) or Berserker. These are all things you can sub out LS for. I go for more attack speed since my lag makes everything too slow. They are also all factors that can "optimize" EB. Syndicate mods provided damage, CC and utility all in one slot i. e. Better than any one mod by itself. Therefore, best choice, therefore, lack of diversity. You can say it's mandatory all you want. Opinions differ from person to person on what is best. That's why they gave us the choice to put in whatever we think is best.

You have to remember that he's also claiming (from his user quote) that 90% of the playerbase is meta and strictly min-maxes. As well as that only the other allege 10% who don't, are not to be catered to.

 

So his point is and will always be justified by his stubbornness to play meta.

 

This change limits nothing, realistically, in no way shape or form. Only a playstyle will afflict the player with a limitation.

[Empiren]

More damage, better channeling efficiency, more attack speed, more damage, more CC, more finisher damage (not really used much) or Berserker. These are all things you can sub out LS for. I go for more attack speed since my lag makes everything too slow. They are also all factors that can "optimize" EB. 

>Paltry damage increase

>More attack speed? What? Who doesn't run both attack speed for an EB build?

>Finisher......for EB, channelling efficiency..........

(do you even?)

But lets get into this:

 

You can say it's mandatory all you want. Opinions differ from person to person on what is best. That's why they gave us the choice to put in whatever we think is best.

Except they removed that option.

 

 

I see this as hypocrisy.

 

>DE gives you the option to begin with.

>Takes option away

>You state that this is now more options.

 

This is ridiculous. If you aren't even aware what an optimized build looks like, then you should not comment that a change was needed for the sake of opitimization balance.

 

 

You have to remember that he's also claiming (from his user quote) that 90% of the playerbase is meta and strictly min-maxes. As well as that only the other allege 10% who don't, are not to be catered to.

 

So his point is and will always be justified by his stubbornness to play meta.

 

This change limits nothing, realistically, in no way shape or form. Only a playstyle will afflict the player with a limitation.

 

 

It's not so much my stubborness as it is the entire game's design.

 

 

Only the playstyle of picking the most optimal item, which was the stated reason for the change.

 

 

Do you guys just not see the logic here?

>"We want to make it all fair, so remove X build"

>Playerbase just switches to Y build that requires just as much "rare" or unique mods/weapons.

(primarily thanks to lifestrike).

Edited August 23, 2015 by Empiren

[TheBrsrkr]

>Paltry damage increase

>More attack speed? What? Who doesn't run both attack speed for an EB build?

>Finisher......for EB, channelling efficiency..........

(do you even?)

But lets get into this:

Except they removed that option.

I see this as hypocrisy.

>DE gives you the option to begin with.

>Takes option away

>You state that this is now more options.

This is ridiculous. If you aren't even aware what an optimized build looks like, then you should not comment that a change was needed for the sake of opitimization balance.

It's not so much my stubborness as it is the entire game's design.

Only the playstyle of picking the most optimal item, which was the stated reason for the change.

Do you guys just not see the logic here?

>"We want to make it all fair, so remove X build"

>Playerbase just switches to Y build that requires just as much "rare" or unique mods/weapons.

(primarily thanks to lifestrike).

A 90% elemental mod is in no way "paltry.

I do, but others may not. Corrosive +cold waves in void is a hell of a lot in raw damage mods.

Finisher no, channeling efficiency yes. Do you even care about anything outside the meta?

You know what is the true hypocrisy here? Misinformation. DE added an option that invalidated many, many other options. Therefore, when they removed that one option, the others were reinstated. If you aren't aware that there IS NO BEST BUILD ANYMORE, AND PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE WHAT THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE, I suggest you move on, get over it, and use your l33t build that's obviously superior to everyone else's because you say so.

[Empiren]

A 90% elemental mod is in no way "paltry.

This just....ugh. Do you really not know how to optimize EB?

 

I don't know if you still think rainbow 90% mods is a thing or you just haven't caught up to damage 2.0 yet.

 

And honestly I don't care. Life strike offers utility far and above the paltry 90%(which is additive btw) increase an elemental mod contains.

You know what is the true hypocrisy here? Misinformation. DE added an option that invalidated many, many other options. Therefore, when they removed that one option, the others were reinstated. If you aren't aware that there IS NO BEST BUILD ANYMORE, AND PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE WHAT THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE, I suggest you move on, get over it, and use your l33t build that's obviously superior to everyone else's because you say so.

>Implying that you couldn't already make the current builds.

 

 

Again, this is the same issue with lifestrike. You can make a build without lifestrike/syndicate mods, it's just not as good.

Edited August 25, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[Superoggy]

Where i think this nerf comes unstuck is i can run most other frames with a syndicate weapon/mod in hand pop my nuke skills like Saryn, Mag, Ash, Nova ect and still have the syndicate mod proc, weapons aside, that perk has been taken away from excal with his 4th ability, i understand you could use his first or third skill to trigger the proc but its hardly as effective as the above mentioned frames, I do see both sides of the coin but ultimately imo think it was a mistake to remove this mod from EB.

 

Also Valkyr would have benefited greatly with the same sort of system but for claw weapons to give her some aoe ability, but with these changes this does not look very likely to happen now!

[wiremash]

As a player who genuinely loves the Prisma Dual Cleavers, I am disappointed to know that I would no longer be able to use it in conjunction with Exalted Blade without being punished with a dead mod slot. As with the topic, I feel like I'm being punished for not using the "top tier" weapons like Dragon Nikana, Dakra Prime, Scindo Prime etc.

 

My suggestion would be to allow Exalted Blade to take the damage effect from the syndicate mods, but not the syndicate effects. To further elaborate, the syndicate weapon would still be able to trigger the syndicate effects, however activating Exalted Blade will no longer charge up the syndicate effect meter, and will not trigger it.

 

This will prevent the syndicate mod from feeling like a dead mod slot, as it still provides the attack bonus, while still giving players the option to use their favourite syndicate weapons without feeling punished or shortchanged.

[CryvernX]

if you go 1h on t4s without life strike you will be droping every 15 seconds, life strike is mandatory so get over it

[Slifar]

EDIT: It seems I forgot to calculate in my Spoiled Strike in the numbers below. Thus, they're based off of a lower base damage  and are therefor significantly lower than they should be! Still, I think that only further makes my point, no? For those curious, the actual damage of an energy wave with the configuration used below is 2720, with 1280 slash, 160 impact, 80 puncture, and 1200 Corrosive.

Look, guys, I had this long, drawn-out explanation on why thinking the change to Exalted Blade was anything other than completely neccesery (And in fact, was not enough!) But I'll give you the short version:

Without factoring in the maxed Steel Charge that slots into Excalibur, my GLAIVE PRIME (with two "dead" slots for Whirlwind and Power Throw, and only near-optimal damage mods elsewhere. I lack Buzz Kill, sadly.) does 1870 damage WITH THE ENERGY WAVE ALONE, with a damage breakdown of 880 slash, 110 impact, 55 puncture, and 825 Corrosive. If I hit them with the sword as well, that damage LITERALLY DOUBLES, albeit with slightly different damage ratios, as I now do melee damage as well. That's 3740 damage, without any sort of melee modifier. Speaking of, you DO know that it is trivial for Excalibur to get upwards of a 3x multiplier with certain loadouts in hordes, right? In fact, the only reason he can't get higher.... Is because everything just dies before he can. Sure, you can add EVEN MORE damage by changing out those two dead slots... But do you really need to? I mean, you're already pushing pretty high DPS numbers, and we haven't even talked about those tasty 400% and 1600% damage modifiers Excal is also packing.

And that's without factoring in the CC of Radial Blind, one of, if not THE, most overpowered skills in the game. Or the fact that the only time you're forced out of Exalted Blade is when you run out of things to kill for energy (Read: Not T4 Defense/Interception/Survival/other wave based thing where scaling actually matters) or overly spam other skills as well.

And let's be perfectly honest, the change was primarily directed at the insane AoE procs and health restores that Excalibur was getting. Don't forget, you still have auto-block while in Exalted Blade, even when attacking, which greatly reduces the damage you take. When coupled with the Syndacite procs... Well, Excalibur was doing too much damage and was next to impossible to kill, barring user error.

if you go 1h on t4s without life strike you will be droping every 15 seconds, life strike is mandatory so get over it

Eh, that's not entirely true. In addition to blocking most of the damage when in Exalted Blade, Excalibur is also unable to take health damage while Slash Dashing (Which also builds your melee counter very, very quickly, thus being very effective at killing the target as well), and also packs the EXTREMELY reliable Radial Blind, plus another, weaker radial blind on Exalted Blade. With careful play, it's rather easy for Excalibur to avoid most damage to his health, especially if running with a Kubrow or Sentinel that can refill his shields.

Not to say that it still isn't VERY VERY useful, but, I wouldn't go quite so far as to say it's MANDATORY for him, except maybe when you have the possibility of a good number of toxic eximuses and/or are doing Infested runs. Then all that toxin damage will make you sad :< That said, I totally take a rank 1 Life Strike on everything except for certain Glaive loadouts. Being able to generally refill my health with one or two whacks in the event I derp is pretty nice!

Edited August 24, 2015 by Slifar

[TheBrsrkr]

if you go 1h on t4s without life strike I will be droping every 15 seconds, life strike is mandatory FOR ME so get over it

Fixed. Edited August 24, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[(PSN)Galbrant]

I like the idea of EB having his own modding slots or that weapons have a augment only slot so that way when I put my Prisma Skana on my Prisma Skinned Excalibur so I don't feel like I am hampering either EB or Normal Melee by using the weapon I like, especially when its a freaking Skana.  Now if Baro Ki'Teer barfs up a Dual Prisma Skana then.... my personal issue will go away... BECAUSE TWO PRISMA SKANAS! >:D