Why De's "bandaids" With Arcanes And Cosmetics Needs A Solution!

[Fraank]

Why DE's "bandaids" with Arcanes and Cosmetics needs a solution!

Let’s start, when everything began ~2-2.5 years ago

-We got alternate helmets for warframes with stats.
-We got more alternate helmets with stats
-People were complaining about the stats, some of them were crappy and/or they simply wanted to have alternate helmets without stats- pure cosmetic items!
-everyone agreed, the stats on alternate helmets had to go. And the stats were gone(for new helmets only- you were able to buy Blueprints to remove some arcane stats of arcane helmets or farm new (non-arcane) helemts without stats. both ways worked fine..
-People were allowed to keep their helmets with stats, and farm another set of helmets without stats.

As far as i remember someone said on a Developer stream, that “cosmetic items have to be  cosmetic-only” - which is why this soltion made sense back the days.  (reminder for the new players: back the days- we had no syandanas, no armor and other fancy stuff - only alternate helmets and color palettes)

Anyways, the pro- and contra-”Stats-on-alternate-helmets”-fracations were “happy” about this solution.

The players who said “remove the stats from every single helmet without any exeption (and let us equip the arcanes) or dont remove them at all from any helmet “ got completely ignored - unfortunately.

Spoiler with some examples why people choose good helmets over good-looking helmets:

Why do you equip a….

 

Arcane swindle helmet on loki? For +15% extra power range!
Arcane essence hlemet on loki?For extra power efficiency!
    Definitely not because those 2 helmets look great compared to the loki prime helmet.

Arcane Pendragon Helmet on Excalibur? For extra power strengh!
    Eventually because it looks great in your opinion, compared to other helmets

Arcane Locust Helmet on Ash Prime? For extra energy capacity!
    Not because it looks great compared to Ash P’s helmet.

Arcane Chorus Helmet on Banshee? For extra power efficiency!
Arcane Reverb helmet on Banshee? for increased max energy!
    they look great and have good stats!

Arcane Phoenix helmet on Ember? for extra energy capacity?
    compared to the ember p helmet - ugly.

Arcane Frost helmets? both are good!
    ugly compared to the frost p helmet, but the stats are awesome!

Arcane Mag helmets? max energy, extra range. both sounds and is great!
    Ok, both look better than a mag p (hardhat-helmet with gasmask and flash-light)

Arcane Vespa helmet for nyx? you dont have to equip streamline when you equip this helmet. fleeting + helmet = 175% efficiency! honestly, the nyx p (xenomorp helmet) looks awesome. unfortunately it s useless compared to the vespa helmet.

and the same counts for the rhino vanguard helmet and arcane trinity, volt and booben helmets.

 As everyone knows, some of those in the spoiler mentioned arcane helmets are quite expensive in trading chat. What do you think why peopel buy those helmets and where the prices going to be in 1 year? Do you think it was a good solution how DE handled the arcane stuff on a long term?

 

 The presence:

DE introduced 8 player (nightmare)raids - as reward we can get Arcanes there.
To use those arcanes we have to put them on cosmetic-only items.

And THIS is basically how the real dilemma - we currently have - began.

We have to transform our cosmetic-only items into cosmetic items with stats!
Our free choice of “Which syandana i m going to wear today?” is gone!

 

-Example:
    You want to wear your [enter your favorite syandana here] with 10 arcane barriers on it for AW missions?
   

    Of course! you can do that, you only have to remove those 10 trickeries first, spent a few million credits again

    and wait for 2  days(or spent 100 plat) to get those 10 barriers on it.
   

    You better buy a bunch of [enter your favorite syandana here]s and put different maxed arcanes you like on it,

    until a new favorite syandana/cape appears on the market.
    To get all the different arcanes on 1 helmet/syandana, you have to purchase the syandana multiple times.

    Exeptions are PrimeAccess/Syndicate-Syandanas, Standard-(p)helmets

    and eventually void trader-syandanas(cant confirm that), too.
    If you like syandanas it works this way, but it s going to be expensive.

   

My idea:

We had “artifacts” once instead of auras.
why cant we equip arcanes like “artifacts” back in U8 or U9.

For the newer players: Before the mission started you were able to chose your “artifact”(aura).

This (or something similar) is what a lot of veterans want. The current way you(DE) is “handling” arcanes is off the track.
Instead of a proper rework/a real solution we get a bandaids-ception.

"We can put arcanes on our cosmetics" => "people dont like some of their stats on their cosmetics anymore" =>"we get a distiller"...

 Is it still the “Year of Quantity”?. When do we get the promised “Year of Quality”?


 tl:dr Arcane stats need to be separated from cosmetic items!

“We are literally forced to wear pink shorts, because those pink shorts grant us an arcane revive and some other stats!”.

 

Edit: edited some typos and formatted the wall of text

 

Edit2:

Livestream #25 ~U13

https://youtu.be/CJbgkl1OnP0?t=54m39s

quote:"Cosmetics, i think, from here forward will basically be stat-less."

 

Edit3: replaced some incorrect info. syandanas in the market can be purchased multiple times. (didn't knew it either)

Edited August 24, 2015 by -ExT-Fraank

[TheGuyver]

I want to read this, but the black text on the black background is hurting my face.

[Fraank]

I want to read this, but the black text on the black background is hurting my face.

dammit, i havent seen it on the light theme, i m trying to fix it

 

Edit:

I fixed it.

I wrote it on google docs first and copy-pasted it directly into the forum.

copy pasting it into a txt file first solved the issue.

Edited August 22, 2015 by -ExT-Fraank

[atom]

if i remember correctly players really wanted (i still want this and i dont think im the only one) to be able to switch freely the stats on the cosmetics. this whole thing DE did removing arcanes and afterwards adding them solved absolutely nothing. DE pls!

[thetruninja]

Agree 100%. 

[Barkano]

Agreed- also we need an option to equip an arcane for the stats and other for cosmetic puropose that will solve the deal.

[Fieldy]

Agreed mybe bcs we disscused it in coms!

 

Fraank for President

[VCaptiion]

Sounds great, I really hope almost everything could be modded. Not only the mentioned cosmetics but also your comsumable gears, synthesis scanner, even your liset and your dojo.

 

Instead of arguing with Umbra/Prime garbage or reckless killing/nerfing, I really hope DE could concentrate on more special content.

Edited August 22, 2015 by VCaptiion

[Krak_Nihilus]

It's something that bothered me ever since new arcanes were introduced. Thank you for putting it in words, you have my support.

Fraank for President

He'll surely be better than currently running candidates, at least if we talk about US of A.

[(PSN)SancticuS]

-everyone agreed, the stats on alternate helmets had to go.

 

 

Did we really all agree to that?

[GravesTheOutlaw]

The fact that I cannot have a Pyra syandana with Arcane Avenger and another Pyra Syandana with Arcane Eruption drives me nuts!

[painterman]

The fact that I cannot have a Pyra syandana with Arcane Avenger and another Pyra Syandana with Arcane Eruption drives me nuts!

 

Well, you can do that with the prisma variants( dont remember the names) i got one with arcane avenger and one with nothing, because i can :P

 

Back on the mater: yea, the arcanes was( and still is) a rollercoaster: the first introduction was disapointing: we dont know if the stacked or not, sudenly the stack and become somewath usefull but the same problem remains: i put my avenger/guardian/barrier/agility on the syandana so i can change betwen frames?? or i put it on a specific helmet that i like and also i really love the frame itsef and that bonus??? because once the 10 arcanes need for the lv4 bonus its reached you cannot move that into another one so easy. I still remember when they did anounce that the so called "focus system" was being dismember and implemented, and the arcanes was the firs thing we will saw, but in the end its just another grind, and even more if you want one of the uncomon ones( serously, the uncomon arcanes are more rare than the rare now that we have the nigthmare raid , like wtf DE >.>). A better aproach would be if we could use up to 2 arcanes per frame, one that can be mooved freely( like the ones that are now on the syandanas, but no need for then to be atached, as some syandanas fit more specific frames and most of the players wont have time to max multiple arcanes) and one tied to one frame itself, much like the exilus atm. Also the exilus slot is another thing that was, well, i dont know. They said that the utility/augment slot was coming, and i and a lot of the comunity was happy to know that their builds wont have to make roon for the augment but now that its implented i have mixed feelings, like some frames welcome the new armored agility( frost/chroma) and other already were fast enough/could fit easily constitution( nm mod with +duration and + recover time instead of handspring) and some people say the cost is to high, i say its about righ, maybe a 1 forma high considering that most of the builds need an extra 1-3 forma for an extra mod but thats other topic of discusion.

 

TLDR: diapointed that we are still depending on utility>cosmetics and that the arcanes further encourage that( or a big waste of resources) and by the way i prefer cosmetics>utility. One of the few arcane helmets i use is the pendragon because i thing its cool and other like chorus despite being awesome in stats i dont use because they are so ugly.

[Fraank]

Did we really all agree to that?

Well, back the days it was a slightly different matter than it is now and you are right. technically DE came to the conclusion that cosmetic items have to stay cosmetic only. Unfortunately, DE does not remember this fact.

We still had our arcane helmets and DE began releasing cosmetic-only helmets. The first cosmetic-only helmet was nova's 2nd alternate helmet as far as i remember.

A few weeks later we got the option to transform our arcane helmets into cosmetic helmets(via blueprint) and/or farm those cosmetic helmets - as it currently is.

 

Do you really think it was a long-term solution?  it was a 1st class bandaid.

What was the point in making something unobtainable for new players? To rip them off in trading chat 2 years later? (That s basically how it turns out to be - people pay ~300 plat or more for relicts from the past of warframe. Veterans never say no to 300 plat. it equals15 forma/potatos)

 

And why did DE remove the stats from helmets in the first place, when they put them back on helmets? The only difference is, that we can decide how to transform cosmetic only items into cosmetics with stats. And this is just wrong.

Why do designers even work at DE's office, when stats on random junk becomes more important than the design of the cosmetics itself?

I would purchase 20 grey cubes, put all the different arcanes on each cube and equip grey cubes as syandana and/or helmets.

The reason why cosmetic items even exist for players is to show off and to look as fancy as possible. I know some pretty "decent" p2w games with OP cosmetic items... just saying.

 

=>Why weren't the stats removed from every single helmet right at the beginning and implemented in a different way? Is it too difficult to find a proper long-term solution for an obvious issue?

 

I havent even mentioned that we have 6 (8 with void trader) syandanas for free. and 20 arcanes.  which basically says that some players will never be able to use every arcane at once.

[Kinjeto]

Surprised the arcane helmet stats weren't just put into a system like -- raiding or seperate system to begin with (see: years ago -- now underline years and put an emphasis on it).

What the F*** was happening back in 2013?

Why create more work for yourself, when imcomparables were half decent to begin with? Few Incomparable items every month, could go could have gone that route.

Just make it an item, that, you can put on the cosmetic. Although Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 were buy to play it still has cosmetics and things that you could buy after the original sale. Guild Wars 2 has a whole entire auction house full of cosmetic weapons. But that's because the art department is something else.

Hell, Guild Wars 2, one of the endgame systems is just "cosmetic" and you get to collect all the cosmetics (this was later in 2013/2014 migrated into a wardrobe function, although the base stats are pre-defined, Arena Net had a VERY GOOD idea of what three stats they needed on each piece of gear to begin with.

The only long term game plan (if it does exist) is putting something from the original helmet idea into a raid and there is no big surprise there. It is just disappointing that as a game we're going round and round in development circles or this is the long game.

This one is for years of development hell. What really is going on?!

  Edited August 23, 2015 by Kinjeto

[Oishii]

Sad part is this prevents me from buying more cosmetics as my frames are now stuck wearing the same cape because I only have one fully upgraded arcane cape.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

It's been said before but cosmetics need an arcane "slot" so arcanes can be applied and moved just like mods.

Would be beneficial to players and devs.

DE doesn't want players to be deterred from buying new cosmetics because they have invested so heavily in their old ones.

Cosmetics should be "wow that will look great on my Nova, must buy it now" not "Hek, that would look great on my Nova but her current one has max barrier, so I'll pass".

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I don't bother with the arcanes. The stats aren't really that impressive, plus you can put them on any item you want. 

 

The only issue is that you can't equip them on default helmets, and there is no "invisible" syandana for those that want the benefits without the visuals.

[Fraank]

I don't bother with the arcanes. The stats aren't really that impressive, plus you can put them on any item you want. 

 

The only issue is that you can't equip them on default helmets, and there is no "invisible" syandana for those that want the benefits without the visuals.

Well, solo players benefit a lot from 1 extra revive every mission.

Barrier is quite handy in archwing missions.

Trickery is a nice to have.

and the toxic resistance might be useful too. 

 

The reason we have cosmetic items is to show them off, to wear them, to look fancy.... not to "hide" them.

Reminds me a bit of "The Emperor's new clothes". His clothes were invisible, too. Plottwist: He was naked the whole time.

[SpaceBucket]

I would care more if the actual effects from the helmets were still obtainable. Current arcane enhancements just aren't really my thing.

[Tyrian3k]

Arcanes being tied to cosmetics has removed all incentives I could have possibly had to go and do the raid more than once. I want to be able to freely choose my cosmetics without worrying about stats.

[Fraank]

I would care more if the actual effects from the helmets were still obtainable. Current arcane enhancements just aren't really my thing.

as i said above. we only got bandaids. not a solution.

DE cant remove the old arcane stats anymore, they missed the train when they made the old arcane helmets tradable. I dont want to imagine the S#&$storm.

they could do nothing about it => sooner or later eventually a S#&$storm.

they could reintroduce the old arcanes (maybe in a new raid?!) => avoid S#&$storm(?).

 

You can consider old arcane helmets sooner or later as"exclusive content". That s how it is going to be if nothing changes.

[venon23]

Easy fix turn them too mods create a special slot for helmet and syndana and equipe in the syndana or helmet u like problem solve :ranking the mod u need other mod of the same u cant rank it up with fusion cores ..... See DE problem solved
and make old arcanes for all helmet of all warframes done

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The reason we have cosmetic items is to show them off, to wear them, to look fancy.... not to "hide" them.

Reminds me a bit of "The Emperor's new clothes". His clothes were invisible, too. Plottwist: He was naked the whole time.

You missed my point. Some people don't like the way syandanas look.  So offer a syandana that is invisible for them to put their arcanes on. That way they can use them without comrpomising the look they want. Same with letting them use the default helmet for arcanes.

[JDP04]

tbh, altho i still have my complete collection of arcane helmets, i prefer cosmetics without stats.

i really hate the day DE introduce new arcanes.. and the day DE decided prime stats are better than the normal variant. :/

[-InV-igo95862]

Arcane Mag helmets? max energy, extra range. both sounds and is great!

    Ok, both look better than a mag p (hardhat-helmet with gasmask and flash-light)

 

Wat? Mag Prime is beautiful.

 

Outside of that I fully agree with you.

Edited August 23, 2015 by igo95862