If Saryn Is Being Reworked Because Of Unhealthy 4 Spam, Why Does Mesa Exist.

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

She's being reworked because all of her skills are awful in, "End Game". Aka, scaling is all #*($%%@ in this game.

[Enno69]

Taiiat, YES YES. You summed it up so beautifully.

 

I too like Mesa a lot - save for her 1 which, as you said, should benefit all weapons ; maybe something like 300% of the gun's total damage on a shot, instead of that damage cap.

But all the skills required to play her goe away the moment you press 4.

 

PM is NOT like any other ult, as some claim it is. None, not even Blade Storm, allow you to go make coffee by putting adhesive tape on your mouse button.

If we're talking about channeling, Sound Quake requires tactical thinking. It CC but doesn't kill reliably, means you can't exploit the effect, but team mates can - team synergy required. Also you're very vulnerable to anything outside radius.

Prism has horrible casting time and travels slowly. Also, it doesn't kill reliably.

Absorb needs to be deployed in a pinch to save your life, but the longer it's active the more risks you're taking - you could be murdered on exiting by the swarm of enemies that have piled up on you. Also, it doesn't kill reliably.

Etc. Then there are instant casts, like Miasma, but PM is not that. PM is a weapon stance. And the other current stances, Hysteria and Exalted Blade, require skills to be used properly. Not PM. No input required here.

 

So I suggest at least ONE change :

Make us able to shoot what we want to shoot. Just that. Don't take away our ability to aim. It's just nonsense. So, for example, if we really needed to please the spammers : using RMB, you can "mark" a set number of priority targets, or just one. She will then fire at those targets until they die. If no targets are selected, she will auto aim as usual. That way we can use their awareness to enhance the power's efficiency by prioritizing the more dangerous foes.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

Immature

[S0V3REiGN]

Oh look the mag nerf didn't change a single problem in regards to Mesa. Good job guys, not only did you get mag nerfed into obscurity but Mesa is still going strong.

[SoulSpectre]

582785849836th Mesa hate topic on this thread. Not tired yet guys?

How 'bout starting a megathread to lessen the thousands of Mesa hate posts daily? It's faster and more efficient y'know? Also, it saves some people's time having to backtrack for topics that can easily be in first page if not for these. :P

[srlhama]

Just add LoS to it and are perfect.

Mesa is DE proof that they want us to stay on one place all missions, they changed Excalibro Radial Javalin to los, they changed Greedy Pull but Mesa is there the Queen of lazy players.( not all Mesa users are lazy, but all lazy use Mesa"if you know what I mean")

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Saryn's only good skills are 2 and 4.

 

Miasma is abused, like any other nukeframe, and needs to be reworked into a utility (remove damage, extend the stun duration).

 

While they're at it DE could spend time to make her 1 and 3 useful...finally.

[blazekan5]

Um..It's not everyone, i build for no.3 and no.2.

[SometingWikked]

To OP and all the other nerf criers.  Why don't you stop complaining about others playing frames they like and let Saryn and Mesa stay as they are. If you don't like them, then don't play them. If you don't like to play with others then start a group that doesn't. Simple, stop crying for DE to nerf things so they are changed to accommodate YOU.

 

The entitled generation thinks they are the center of the universe. Let me clue you in --- its not all about you. Others like the game, frames, weapons and play styles as they are developed, we just don't cry and whine when things don't always go our way.

 

 

Just sayin --- go with they flow and enjoy it...its a game.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: PS... I am not against refining or adjusting frames abilities to make them more usable or making augment mods (i.e., Regen Molt) that allow for the increased use of the lesser used abilities. But (lets be honest) I am against nerfing a good ability because someone is crying that they are not getting the top kills in a mission because a Saryn or Mesa user does. Top players using other maxed frames/weapons can still out perform average level Saryn and Mesa users.

Edited August 25, 2015 by SometingWikked

[SoulSpectre]

To OP and all the other nerf criers. Why don't you stop complaining about others playing frames they like and let Saryn and Mesa stay as they are. If you don't like them, then don't play them. If you don't like to play with others then start a group that doesn't. Simple, stop crying for DE to nerf things so they are changed to accommodate YOU.

The entitled generation thinks they are the center of the universe. Let me clue you in --- its not all about you. Others like the game, frames, weapons and play styles as they are developed, we just don't cry and whine when things don't always go our way.

Just sayin --- go with they flow and enjoy it...its a game.

Thank you. Very much.

Now I wanna use your words to every mesa hate topic there ever is.

+1000

[(PSN)supersocc11]

Ok everyone, what do you think is coming first: rework of saryn and a few other frames or a new warframe?

[MasterNalgas]

no, making it into a useful Ability that doesn't rely on abusing it against low Level Enemies is the way to go.

so that way it's useful in Gameplay, not useful for avoiding Gameplay.

but feel free to be butthurt and call everything a nerf when others are trying to make playing Warframe an interactive experience, rather than a non-interactive experience.

kind've like what Video Games are supposed to be. if it's non-interactive, might as well be a movie.

fun fact, AFKFarming strategies is not because of anything, it's just the path of least resistance.

people have been using them in Warframe since forever. because they make it the easiest to do, so Players do that.

you can fill your daily limit of Syndicate Points by playing a single Mission. people still use AFKFarming strategies because it's easier to do that than to just play the game.

blah blah, Et Cetera Et Cetera.

there could be no grinding in any means whatsoever in Warframe - Players would still do the same things. because it's the path of least resistance.

sorry, i just had to get this off my chest. sometimes people in this Community can be more naive than a fetus.

 

You really don't seem to have listen to everything i just said, or you just didn't bother at all, which was what i was afraid of.

I didn't said nothing about not wanting to change the ability, i'm totally ok with a rework of her abilities. But from what i understand you were trying to suggest a blunt nerf to her ulti because of "button mashing". And i was just alerting you, that such a thing will not work to prevent people from button mashing another ability, from other frame, and sending saryn to the "halls of the forgotten" were mag resides now. It's the mentality of nerfing for the sake of "balance" that keeps this game from progressing forward to a more "interactive experience" as you say. I'm just having and healthy discussion with you on this topic, anything that you say will not make me feel "butthurt" so feel free to take what you want of your chest. What may happen is i might just ignore you if this starts to get too unreasonable.

 

In co-op games i consider more entertaining the interaction between players than with the environment. It's true that miasma has little interaction with the environment as you "nuke" your enemies out of the sky in low levels and you keep spamming to stun enemies in high levels reducing their armor aswell. However this ability has a lot of teamplay value (player interaction), and if you take that away with a simple nerf, you will take away any chance of interaction this frame will have with your team mates, thus you will not see her anymore in any serious late game mission.

Besides if you have any full level frame, you can pretty much nuke your way trough every low level mission. Because that's what they are, low level missions, meant for low level frames and weapons. If you want challenge and more interaction go play high level missions, that's a problem with every xp based game, nothing to be done there.  

 

Not so fun fact, is that AFKfarming strategies as you say, are indeed the path of less resistance and also boring in some cases. But they are the only path that people will consider because of how the game works. This game is all about farming, to build your arsenal you need countless hours of grinding, and most people have a life outside the game. Syndicate points it's far from being the only thing you need to farm in this game in order to progress. You need absurd amounts of fusion cores, credits, affinity, resources and forma to build your stuff, let alone the amount of times you have to complete a certain mission to get that specific prime part, or mod, or key you want. I bet with you that if the grinding was lower or more homogeneous (like you could do other missions besides endless types to get what you want), people would do less AFK farming. That doesn't mean that there would be no people AFKfarming, because some people like to do that, but 90% of the people that are doing AFKfarming right now would stop. You see treads in this forum everyday, of players complaining about AFKfarming, that must mean they don't like it. But then you log on the game and see those exact same players AFKfarming cuz they don't have a choice!

 

I'm not being "naive", i'm stating fact. After 2 years of countless nerfs and buffs, the problem persists, that must mean something is not working. Every time DE nerfs or buffs something, they are basically saying that the last nerf or buff did not work. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.         

[DxAdder]

A Saryn re-work is be doing to bring some synergy to the frame. Her powers need an overhaul.

 

Her Ultimate as well as Mesa's DON'T scale to end game, this has already established in multiply threads.

 

Please stop beating this poor dead horse.

[-Vane-]

Mesa is kept for sole purpose of salt production rates. As it is there are quite a few reasons why Saryn is gettin a rework first. First being Saryn is a fairly old frame whereas Mesa is fairly new. Notice the fairly besides adjectives. Mesa is a reoccuring problem, but i am sure that DE will work it out in a best way possibble.

[(PSN)Skyfir51]

Shhh - They might catch on.

They can catch on all they like. Melee hits can screw you over still so it works out fine.

[taiiat]

those exact same players AFKfarming cuz they don't have a choice!

no, there always is a choice. the paths of least resistance are marginally faster than playing normally. all it does is let them not really play the game while they get stuff.

the things that people complain are so awful are nowhere near as awful. the age old "blah blah if i don't abuse Interception i can never Level anything". when they can play a single Mission normally and fully Level a thing anyways. the one they're choosing, just lets them do it while not playing the game.

there is very little precedence to support that without any 'grind' whatsoever the Players will not use the paths of least resistance. there is, however, much precedence to support that they will anyways. it's the standard result out of a Video Game. the industry may 'only' be ~25 years old, but a lot has happened in that 25 years.

while a significant majority of Players are not specifically looking for the path of least resistance, when they hear about it from some random person, they will start to use it because they're sheep and they do what they're told to do.

[(PSN)RocketPunch1221]

Mesa right from inception is design to be OP and extremely difficult to farm to sell plats.

DE knew right from the get go that frame will be nerf to hell, after they done selling it and or the next OP frame being introduced.

It is a frame so ridiculous my grandma can "play" it and deal the most dmg in a party.

DE speak about balance all the time, but fooling no one by making Mesa's 4.

I am all for making a profit and they should as Warframe IS a great product but don't treat their player base as fools and try giving us the "balance" talk when you make something like Mesa clearly as "smash & grab" plat frame.

Edited August 25, 2015 by (PS4)RocketPunch1221

[DxAdder]

Mesa is fine, the attitude towards the frame is the problem.

 

I really don't care if a Mesa is in your PUG and you only get 5% of the damage, its a PUG !!!!!

 

Promotes AFK farming ? that's a DE problem not Mesa, fix you code.

 

Is really that hard to go form your own group and never have to see Mesa (Or any other frame that is deemed OP) ?

 

But if the do nerf Mesa trust me that will only be the beginning of the Nerf Wars this board will be filled with threads about nerfing everything.

[Demonfr34k]

I love mesa, and I love Peacemaker, but it would be cool to see if Mesa got an ability similar to Exalted Blade for her ult instead of peacemaker (it would be really cool to see how DE would make this into an ability unique from the other guns in the game), but then again if this is the ability for lazy people, a new ult would make her more skill based, and she get less hate. Another point is if Mesa does get a PM nerf people will move to the next thing like Excal :/

 

Sorry if I'm going over the same point some other people have stated, there were 5 pages i didn't feel like going through. I love this game and when i see opinions, that i sometimes even if they aren't, my mind tags them as hate posts and i just had to say something.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Only thing what have been said about saryn's rework is that she is getting rework. EVERYTHING else you mentioned came out right up your arse. So please, dont spread hate for no reason what so ever.

[Heatnix.]

I giggle at people wanting Saryn reworked. They finally made DE rework her believing that she was missing something when she's pretty good as is.

 

I also giggle at the fact of people complaining about "one trick skill kill everything" when they do this and practice it daily and with every frame. They only seem to care when someone gets their kills with a one-hit-kill skill that they are unable to perform at the moment. They do this with every frame but only complain on some out of the fact that they believe them be inferior to their frame/skill of choice, and as soon as they see someone get more kills they immediately blame it on "the one skill" which is a cancer they, themselves, helped to create.

 

Seriously, this community has issues. They call Saryn's skills "situational". Aren't skills supposed to be like that? Have an array of skills for different situations?

 

Oh no, I forgot: T4 Survival 60 mins + is all the community cares about.

 

I'm guessing a "balanced rework" means 4 skills that kill everything in the room.

Edited August 25, 2015 by DoomBunny.

[MasterNalgas]

no, there always is a choice. the paths of least resistance are marginally faster than playing normally. all it does is let them not really play the game while they get stuff.

the things that people complain are so awful are nowhere near as awful. the age old "blah blah if i don't abuse Interception i can never Level anything". when they can play a single Mission normally and fully Level a thing anyways. the one they're choosing, just lets them do it while not playing the game.

there is very little precedence to support that without any 'grind' whatsoever the Players will not use the paths of least resistance. there is, however, much precedence to support that they will anyways. it's the standard result out of a Video Game. the industry may 'only' be ~25 years old, but a lot has happened in that 25 years.

while a significant majority of Players are not specifically looking for the path of least resistance, when they hear about it from some random person, they will start to use it because they're sheep and they do what they're told to do.

 

"the path of least resistance are marginally faster than playing it normally" -- From this i can tell you spend more time on the forums than actually playing the game. Lets consider doing draco all day as the "path of least resistance", and now lets compare it to "playing it normally". I don't know what is for you playing it normally, cuz you see, people don't play the game in the same way, what is normal to you might not be normal to me but whatever. Lets just say that "playing it normal" is just doing a bunch of other missions like: spy, captures, sabotage, hell even some defenses. Now if my objective (and lets be honest people always play with an objective) is to level up a bunch of stuff. Tell me which path do you think is going to get my stuff leveled up 3x faster? Yeah you know exactly which one will be, and it's not going to be just "marginally faster".

You can take an unranked warframe, with 3 other unranked weapons and take them instantly to rank 30 in one or two draco runs. And that will take you what? 20 minutes? 30 at worst. Now tell me where can you do the same with that time. There sure are other ways to do it, but i think you would not consider those "normal" aswell. Because it always involves a "tactic" that goes against the norm, doesn't mean it's bad, it means people think. 

 

The problem that you don't seem to understand is that in a game where the best is the one that farms most, people will always find the best way to do it. And because most games are not rocket science, it doesn't take long for people to figure out where and how to do it. If you want players to play the game "normally" (whatever that is for you), then give them reasons to do so, reward them for doing so. Don't punish players for finding the fastest way, and especially, do not take revenge on the tools they use to do so. Because you will be hurting the game not them.

 

You don't need 25 years to understand whats happening to this particular game, don't compare this to other games an ignore context. Mostly because you already have 2 years of history of warframe to analyse. And if you do it carefully you can see nerfs and buffs everywhere, but people always find a way to get around it, that's not because they are lazy it's because they are persistent. They love the game and they want to keep progressing in it. While others look at the grind wall and give up, they say: "I'm not climbing that! Let's find a way to get around!".

 

When people hear about the best way to farm specific stuff, they test it, and find out for themselves that's indeed the best way. If not they drop it. People are not dumb or sheep, what are they supposed to do? Invent the wheel? If you find something that works well, why change it?

 

Now because everything i say it's "blah blah", i take you wont read it all or much less pay full attention to it. Unfortunately i don't have the power to make people see what they don't wanna see. But at least i try, that's what matters.       

[wiremash]

My issue with Saryn, and also the difference between Mesa and Equinox, is that while Mesa and Equinox are capable of room clearing, like Saryn, Mesa and Equinox are still very usable with all their other abilities.

 

For Example: Ballistic Battery is useful for priority targets and Mesa can buff and tank with shatter shield and shooting gallery/muzzle flash (minor cc)

 

Equinox is even more versatile, being a Buff/Nuke/Tank/Healer all in one frame, whereas Saryn is mostly nothing more than a Nuke frame.

 

The rework is supposed to change that issue, we want to make Saryn not just a nuke frame, but a frame where her other abilities are more viable, like Equinox and Mesa.

[Cleesus]

Closing the thread due to and to stop the spread of misinformation in the op. There hasnt been any info on Sayrns rework.