Telos Boltor, Why?

[NezuHimeSama]

Isn't Boltor Prime only about 5 base damage higher, and slightly higher fire rate? The much, much larger clip size make up for that imho. The thing that makes it worse than Boltor P is A: everyone has a 5forma Boltor P, and B: bolt accuracy is lower.

Edited September 11, 2015 by NezuHimeSama

[(XBOX)Dynamix606]

Telos Sybaris, hell yeah give me that !

[Kotanaru]

I'm just going to leave the math of the Truth effect here.

 

Truth requires 1000 affinity to activate.

 

Once activated multiple things happen.

1. A 25m gas AoE of 1000 damage with a 100% chance to proc the gas effect.

2. 25% of the warframe's base health id restored.

3. All parkour moves are increased by 25%.

 

The gas pros causes a toxin AoE in a 5m radius that deals 50% of the base damage of the attack, doing 500 damage of toxin per tick, 9 ticks over 8 seconds I believe, doing 4500 damage that ignores armor and shields and is affected by the elemental resistances and weaknesses of the enemy's flesh.

 

This toxin proc can also stack multiple times, increasing the damage, depending on how close the enemy is to other effected enemies.

Is that the TRUTH? HAH PUNS...

[Mr.Somebody]

I'd personally like to see the status chance get buffed to 20% or so, if people absolutely refuse to acknowledge that it should do more damage, because it offends their arbitrary sense of balance, in a game that scales forever.

Definitely agree. On a side note, both normal boltor and boltor P have a 10% status, while telos boltor only has 7.5%. I would say it wouldn't matter if they nerfs telos boltor's damage to 40 or 35 as long it gets a 20% status because on high level grineer & void the corrosive procs really does alot, and actually make it more different to boltor P than just adding the syndicate proc.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Mr.Somebody

[ProfessorZero]

Telos Boltor prime recieves a 10% reduction in Damage per bolt, and is a little less accurate. But it has the truth effect, which wildly overcompensates for this. Its the better weapon by far and in terms of all projectile rifles, the best. Who cares if you deal 50 less damage per shot when every minute you can blast 20 enemies for a couple thousand and proc them. Unless it got nerfed somewhere I didn't notice, it is the superior weapon.

[DualityDalton]

I think DE should've chose a more interesting weapon. We already have a Boltor AND a Boltor Prime (and Bolto, Akbolto, and Tells Akbolto). So.ething lime the Telos Tiberon would've been awesome.

[Unholyrequiem]

When directly comparing the potential theoretical DPS of a weapon it assumes that your weapon is A) hitting the target B) That you are doing everything statistically consistent C) That no extra variables affect your weapon or bullets.

 

Well I've seen some post that have come to say their DPS is close. But in reality when put into the same situations, the Telos Boltor has the following disadvantages compared to the Boltor Prime:

 

A) Slower Projectile speed

 

B) Slower fire rate

 

C) Less accuracy 

 

D) Lower status chance 

 

While only gaining an additional 30 magazine and a slightly faster reload speed.

 

But wait these differences don't really matter do they? Well in a sense if we wanna crunch theoretical numbers we need to also consider the outside variables beyond raw DPS to consider.

 

>Slower projectile speed provides more time for a target to move out of the way of the projectile. It's that simple.

>Slower rate of fire means that it fires bullets more slowly into the target dealing less damage per second overall providing a more stable ammo economy and would be beneficial if the Boltor Prime's ammo economy was in any way bad to begin with. 

>Lower accuracy means heavy cal will have an even worse effect on the Telos Boltor as opposed to the Boltor Prime. 

>Less status chance makes it less able to proc corrosive which is actually a huge downside. Being able to proc corrosive more often enables you to bring down the armour fo the enemy sooner and deal more damage per bullet since its Armour is actually dropping.

The Telos Boltor may have a larger ammo economy but seems to have differences that would waste more ammo in the long run despite having more ammo. The slightly less DPS mixed in with these subtle differences change a lot in the output vs input with both weapons.

So tell me, in the long run does the Syndicate proc and extra magazine really make up for the loss? If you ask me, not really.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Unholyrequiem

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

Just started playing with the telos boltor, but I have to agree that statistically it appears to be a bit underwhelming. Considering what it takes to reach max rank with the syndicates (time, resources, and standing), I expect something comparable to Prime status. I would like a bit more status chance to offset the reduced damage from the Boltor P.  

[(PSN)savoy123]

I understand that for certain syndicates DE tried to make the primary and secondary have some similarity, like rakta cernos/ballistica (bow type) and telos akbolot/bolto (bolt type weapons..?) and synoid simulor/gammacor (similar design concepts).

My biggest complaint is that the boltor prime exists and the telos boltor is a worse off version of that weapon.... seemingly created just because someone at DE wanted to match similar weapon types when their was no desire or need for another variant of the boltor by players.

New loka is a perfect example of how the tigris and castana's have nothing in common yet they were paired together. I could argue placing the penta within new loka along side the castana's would have at least matched up two explosive type weapons.

Although you will be doing more DPS because of the magazine holding 90, not many foes even at T4 level will ever require pumping more than 60 shots into them and alot of people, myself included reload very frequently.

So the only reason I can see DE chose the boltor as the primary for hexas was becasue it matched up with the akbolto. ... In Perrin, New Loka and Meridian no such pairings were made between primary/secondary leading me to believe that DE could have chosen any weapon for arbiters but chose the boltor.

Edited October 10, 2015 by (PS4)savoy123

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

Steel all the way, baby. I started with Hexis because my mates told me I should. Then I looked at S&M. Frost, Excal, Ember and Oberon, my favorite frames. Yes please. Syn Mod for the Hek? Yes please. Syn Hek? Maybe I can out the Syn mod... Awww dammit.

Edited October 11, 2015 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

I understand that for certain syndicates DE tried to make the primary and secondary have some similarity, like rakta cernos/ballistica (bow type) and telos akbolot/bolto (bolt type weapons..?) and synoid simulor/gammacor (similar design concepts).

My biggest complaint is that the boltor prime exists and the telos boltor is a worse off version of that weapon.... seemingly created just because someone at DE wanted to match similar weapon types when their was no desire or need for another variant of the boltor by players.

New loka is a perfect example of how the tigris and castana's have nothing in common yet they were paired together. I could argue placing the penta within new loka along side the castana's would have at least matched up two explosive type weapons.

Although you will be doing more DPS because of the magazine holding 90, not many foes even at T4 level will ever require pumping more than 60 shots into them and alot of people, myself included reload very frequently.

So the only reason I can see DE chose the boltor as the primary for hexas was becasue it matched up with the akbolto. ... In Perrin, New Loka and Meridian no such pairings were made between primary/secondary leading me to believe that DE could have chosen any weapon for arbiters but chose the boltor.

Just one thing.

Castanas are not explosive like the Penta is. They deal electricity damage. Angstrum could be paired with the Penta, Amprex woulda been a good pairing with Castanas. Id argue that the AkJagara would be a better fit for the Tigris.

[(PSN)savoy123]

Just one thing.

Castanas are not explosive like the Penta is. They deal electricity damage. Angstrum could be paired with the Penta, Amprex woulda been a good pairing with Castanas. Id argue that the AkJagara would be a better fit for the Tigris.

 

I guess then you can detonate them both then... idk but still the castana is kinda like an explosive type weapon ... that uses electricity

[--Chubbs--]

I am not happy with this weapon, what better place to be a whiny child than on the forums?

 

I have no choice but to compare it to the Boltor Prime, because that's the only boltor you see anyone above MR 2 using anymore.

 

 

Telos has Lower puncture damage, lower base damage, lower status chance, (slightly) lower firing speed, and lower visual appeal. ( ;p )

 

"What are the pros?" you yell.

 

Well, the innate truth effect (That every other syndicate weapon has, not making this a better choice over any other syndicate weapon) and a higher clip size; oddly enough, the same ammo pool as the Boltor (technically 40 bolts higher with the starter clip.) As if the Boltor didn't have a bad enough ammo economy.

 

Boltor Prime is easy to obtain, dirt-cheap to buy in trading, (people can't give the damn thing away,) and is a great weapon, but disregarded for the community response it gets; for decent reason.

 

---

 

DE, is this your way of getting back at the fact that **TOO MANY PEOPLE** are in hexis? (maybe that's just projection, but everyone I talk to seems to be in hexis.)

 

I would have liked to see this gun *Worth it,* with Crit, with Status, with anything, rather than just falling flat as a *meh* gun choice.

 

***That and the Simulor but there were three threads already, and I couldn't find a single boltor thread.

funny thing is, my whole clan seems to be with red veil and friends, and im here with the arbiters. idk, i use the telos boltor for the mag size, the syndicate proc, and because i want to use a good (decent) boltor weapon without haters telling me that im not good at this game since i use the boltor prime. or to summarize, because the boltor prime is mainstream (yes i just said that)

[RealPandemonium]

I'm just going to leave the math of the Truth effect here.

 

Truth requires 1000 affinity to activate.

 

Once activated multiple things happen.

1. A 25m gas AoE of 1000 damage with a 100% chance to proc the gas effect.

2. 25% of the warframe's base health id restored.

3. All parkour moves are increased by 25%.

 

The gas pros causes a toxin AoE in a 5m radius that deals 50% of the base damage of the attack, doing 500 damage of toxin per tick, 9 ticks over 8 seconds I believe, doing 4500 damage that ignores armor and shields and is affected by the elemental resistances and weaknesses of the enemy's flesh.

 

This toxin proc can also stack multiple times, increasing the damage, depending on how close the enemy is to other effected enemies.

This, and also the Toxin proc headshots humanoids, doubling that damage.  Toxin damage doesn't ignore armor, though.  

 

That 4500 (9000 damage on humanoids) is multiplied by the number of adjacent targets; 3 humanoid enemies standing within 5m of each other would receive 27k Toxin damage plus the 1k Gas for a total of 28k damage.  Gas damage sucks but Toxin is great.  Toxin has +50% to crewmen and ignores all shields, deals +25% to Ferrite and ignores 25% of Ferrite armor, and is neutral against light Infested.  Only downsides are -25% to robots (but you bypass the shield completely) and -50% to Fossilized Infested.  

[Mr.Somebody]

This, and also the Toxin proc headshots humanoids, doubling that damage.  Toxin damage doesn't ignore armor, though.  

 

That 4500 (9000 damage on humanoids) is multiplied by the number of adjacent targets; 3 humanoid enemies standing within 5m of each other would receive 27k Toxin damage plus the 1k Gas for a total of 28k damage.  Gas damage sucks but Toxin is great.  Toxin has +50% to crewmen and ignores all shields, deals +25% to Ferrite and ignores 25% of Ferrite armor, and is neutral against light Infested.  Only downsides are -25% to robots (but you bypass the shield completely) and -50% to Fossilized Infested.  

Confirmed most of it at warframe wiki, but toxin proc headshots? Didn't notice that at all, nor did anyone mention that to me. Can anyone tell me how that works?

[RealPandemonium]

Confirmed most of it at warframe wiki, but toxin proc headshots? Didn't notice that at all, nor did anyone mention that to me. Can anyone tell me how that works?

Gas procs are a Toxin damage explosion with a no-falloff 5m radius and 100% status chance.  That explosion headshots humanoids, as most explosions do.  Try doing a Gas proc on a charger, and then a Runner.  You'll notice that the Runner takes twice the damage from the proc because it has a head.  

[Inarticulate]

I understand that for certain syndicates DE tried to make the primary and secondary have some similarity, like rakta cernos/ballistica (bow type) and telos akbolot/bolto (bolt type weapons..?) and synoid simulor/gammacor (similar design concepts).

My biggest complaint is that the boltor prime exists and the telos boltor is a worse off version of that weapon.... seemingly created just because someone at DE wanted to match similar weapon types when their was no desire or need for another variant of the boltor by players.

New loka is a perfect example of how the tigris and castana's have nothing in common yet they were paired together. I could argue placing the penta within new loka along side the castana's would have at least matched up two explosive type weapons.

DE appears to be selecting weapons of the same manufacturing faction first.

 

Steel Meridian's weapons, the Hek and Marelok, are of Grineer manufacture.

Arbiters of Hexis's weapons, the Boltor and Akbolto, are of Tenno manufacture.

Cephalon Suda's weapons, the Simulor and Gammacor, are of Cephalon manufacture.

Perrin Sequence's weapons, the Penta and Dual Cestras, are of Corpus manufacture.

Red Veil's weapons, the Cernos and Ballistica, are of Tenno manufacture.

New Loka's weapons, the Tigris and Castanas, are of Tenno manufacture.

[Kotanaru]

Where's Cephalon Shy when you need her?

Synoid Sybaris

[Sherman_Strike]

To be completly honest, It does make some sense that we got a Boltor, since the Telos AkBolto is a bolt weapon as well.. which technically should give us a Telos Boltace when it's released. I'm not saying that I'm happy that we got this specific "gun".. I mean, there are other bolt primary weapons in the game, and I'd easily prefer a Telos Kohm or someting like that.

[HermlT]

To be completly honest, It does make some sense that we got a Boltor, since the Telos AkBolto is a bolt weapon as well.. which technically should give us a Telos Boltace when it's released. I'm not saying that I'm happy that we got this specific "gun".. I mean, there are other bolt primary weapons in the game, and I'd easily prefer a Telos Kohm or someting like that.

I just hope they make the tonfas actually usable in terms of stance (Really?? 2 block combos??) and range before they do that.

Either that or they will take another sword themed melee which fits the arbiters theme.

[DeMeritus]

Yeah, Telos Boltor is kind of... crap.

 

I think the devs really should give the weapon a bit of a buff so it isn't considered trash tier.

[LuxTemporum]

Why is everyone hating on the synoid simulor? I stuck it on mirage and she has destroyed everything i have thrown at her since. I honestly don't think i could lose a mission with her now without it being a high level survival, interception or defence.

[DSpite]

I am not happy with this weapon, what better place to be a whiny child than on the forums?

 

I have no choice but to compare it to the Boltor Prime, because that's the only boltor you see anyone above MR 2 using anymore.

 

 

Telos has Lower puncture damage, lower base damage, lower status chance, (slightly) lower firing speed, and lower visual appeal. ( ;p )

 

"What are the pros?" you yell.

 

Well, the innate truth effect (That every other syndicate weapon has, not making this a better choice over any other syndicate weapon) and a higher clip size; oddly enough, the same ammo pool as the Boltor (technically 40 bolts higher with the starter clip.) As if the Boltor didn't have a bad enough ammo economy.

 

Boltor Prime is easy to obtain, dirt-cheap to buy in trading, (people can't give the damn thing away,) and is a great weapon, but disregarded for the community response it gets; for decent reason.

 

---

 

DE, is this your way of getting back at the fact that **TOO MANY PEOPLE** are in hexis? (maybe that's just projection, but everyone I talk to seems to be in hexis.)

 

I would have liked to see this gun *Worth it,* with Crit, with Status, with anything, rather than just falling flat as a *meh* gun choice.

 

***That and the Simulor but there were three threads already, and I couldn't find a single boltor thread.

 

First off, 50% of the entire Warframe community must be in Hexis, since you are "not really" in one Syndicate, but three, because of how the points work out.

 

Then, the Telos Boltor does what 23K Burst, 18K Sustained fully modded?

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Telos_Boltor/t_30_42223230_131-0-5-150-1-10-132-2-5-137-3-10-133-4-5-134-5-5-138-6-5-141-7-5_131-6-150-8-132-8-137-7-133-6-134-6-138-6-141-11

 

and that's a problem when? Shooting level 80 Heavy Gunners? And where exactly are those on the normal Star Chart missions? Also you do realize that base damage of most guns in combat is irrelevant when we all have large number of force multiplier Frame abilities, right? One crappy Rhino Roar and you have 30K coming out in a pinch.

 

Is all this game to you just about crit/status chances? 20+ Frames with unique abilities, weapons classes to cover just about all the weapons we have EVER seen in other games, a decent mix - could be better DE :) - of mission types, and you complain about a few points of crit or status difference on ONE gun?

Edited October 27, 2015 by DSpite

[DSpite]

My question is, Who at DE really thinks the boltor is the best concept ever and keeps making variants of it? We get it, it shoots bolts. We don't need 3 identical bolt rifles and 3 bolt pistols to enjoy the weapon.

 

DE needs to put a different person in charge of these guns, who likes lasers and continuous weapons, and will make syndicate versions of those instead of re-using the same tired concept. 

 

"I like laser, don't like bolts" is YOUR personal opinion. Don't push that on everyone else, I'm fine with either, and (almost) nailing things to walls is quite fun. Frankly I'm more tired of beam lasers, and would prefer seeing weapons firing laser-bolts. See what I did there?

Edited October 27, 2015 by DSpite

[DSpite]

I did. You posted a bunch of semi autos with theoretical dps.  Many were also shotguns with limited range. And one was an auto (Braton P) which has lower dps but you put it in anyway.

 

Really? how about the argument that you I can put down 20 separate Level 40 Heavy gunners in the Simulacrum with a non-critting, non-proccing 5K modded DPS Karak without even emptying the entire clip?

 

Complaining that if guns can't hit 30K DPS is the most laughable reason to call guns "bad" I have ever heard, considering that practically any boost from Frame Abilities effects multiply that through the roof. Molecular Prime does what, TRIPLE the given damage?

 

Always comes down to Endless, does it not? "I need to deal with level 200 Heavy units. DE buff the damn gun". You know what? No. Learn to play properly with what you have, considering that it's already possible to trivialize Survival against level 2000 enemies.

 

Core game play is on the Star Chart, and all weapons have to do is work THERE, and there is already too many "OP" guns. The Telos Boltor is already a monster, and does NOT need to be better.

 

EDIT:

 

Burston Prime, set to do ONLY 6K Corrosive, in Simulacrum vs Heavy gunners, added a Stabilzer to test the spread from Heavy caliber at medium to long range.

 

Puts down level 40's in 4 shots (busts) and level 60's in 8 shots (burts) and over 30 meter easily. That's with ONLY 6K DPS shooting them in the face.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Burston_prime/t_30_22000000_132-0-5-137-1-8-133-2-5-141-3-5-150-4-5-161-5-3_132-8-137-6-133-11-141-11-150-11-161-9

 

Everyone gets hung up on stupidly high damage numbers and forgets that you just need to learn how to shoot properly.

Edited October 27, 2015 by DSpite