The Warframe Market Is A Joke And Actively Discourages Impulse Purchases (Updated, Includes Solution To Installed Catalysts/weapon Slot On Weapons)

[Guest]

Maybe because they don't want players to buy their way through the game and reach the end within a matter of days or weeks. They want to retain their playerbase, to have them commit their time and effort to their masterpiece. That every map is a work of art that is to be awed for its amazing depth and simplicity, that every moment as a ninja you are working towards a goal to be better rather than worse.

Before I reset, I had 90% of the weapons in under a month through standard play.

 

People who want to play normally to earn their weapons will continue to do so. Some people are happy spending money in markets and it is not a wise decision to discourage them by making everything in the market overpriced. You're just losing money and irritating people who aren't keen on grind but possibly like the gameplay of Warframe. It's not exactly like the weapons in this game are hard to build either, so why are these weapons so expensive? I can maybe understand what they were going for the Stalker pack, they are rare drops after all. But 800 Platinum is still too much. The ideal zone in my eyes is around 500.

 

 

Also another reason could be the 80/20 principle. Since Warframe is kinda new on its own, i am guessing the demand is quite niche and only a small handful of people do not mind continuously spending money on the game. Thus if you were to make it cheaper, the chances are profits may not improve even if sales of virtual items went up since they would probably be making the same had they done the opposite.

Nope, Warframe is currently one of the most popular games on Steam, averaging 15,000 players a day. And that's not taking into consideration the players who do not use the Steam client.

 

 

Not to mention by doing the opposite they maybe even profiting more since players are less likely to buy on impulse, but continue to spend over time. Warframe from this point of view plans to be an expanding game with long term goals, not simplistic short term economic and business decisions. They can choose to benefit short term, but at that they won't be moving to long term players would will still enjoy the satisfaction of this game even after 2 or 3 years of play.

But that's the exact opposite of what you want. By making it easier to jump into the market on impulse, people are more likely to spend money, not feel ripped off, and support the game. If you make it difficult for a person to drop money on a game by just a glance at your store, they're likely not going to spend money. You want them to immediately, AS SOON as they open that store page, to think "wow that's pretty cheap." That's the hook, that's what turns a free player into a paying customer.

[Quetzhal]

You want them to immediately, AS SOON as they open that store page, to think "wow that's pretty cheap." That's the hook, that's what turns a free player into a paying customer.

This line reminds me of a similar issue that I'd thought about. The platinum to cash conversion rate is... weird. New players are going to look at that shop and they are going to think it's cheap. I mean, 800 Plat? Most conversion rates would make that $8. At this point players would go see how much platinum actually is only to see it's $5 for 75 plat.

I'm curious; what are your thoughts? It seems to me like that conversion rate can only really make a bad impression on new players, though I imagine part of the intent is to obfuscate how much money you're actually spending on an item. I don't know. I do know the conversion rate made both me and a friend wince, as we originally intended to buy some stuff and immediately backed off when we saw how the prices converted. (We later bought Hunter packs because we liked DE.)

[Guest]

This line reminds me of a similar issue that I'd thought about. The platinum to cash conversion rate is... weird. New players are going to look at that shop and they are going to think it's cheap. I mean, 800 Plat? Most conversion rates would make that $8. At this point players would go see how much platinum actually is only to see it's $5 for 75 plat.

I'm curious; what are your thoughts? It seems to me like that conversion rate can only really make a bad impression on new players, though I imagine part of the intent is to obfuscate how much money you're actually spending on an item. I don't know. I do know the conversion rate made both me and a friend wince, as we originally intended to buy some stuff and immediately backed off when we saw how the prices converted. (We later bought Hunter packs because we liked DE.)

I don't think it's so much the conversion rate as it is everything in the market dwarfs the basic Platinum packs.

 

When I first played this game and saw the market prices, they did seem cheap... until I looked at the Platinum packages, just like you and your friend, and that's when I noped right back out. 75 Platinum currently can buy you basically nothing. Three Orokin Reactors/Catalysts and some slots at most.

[Sophax]

Makes sense.

[SgtColonel]

Very well formulated suggestion OP, i support you fully and hope DE can do the same.

[austinrelis]

Does not make sense.

 

Do you ask for a refund after you bought a new graphics card only to see the same card to half the price two months later?

Thing is I have already used my plat. I may upgrade my founders status, but I'm unsure.

 

Tell me how great it would be to have these awesome plat costs with no plat left to spend because you bought everything beforehand? That would be great, right?

 

EDIT: And not refunded completely as in all plat given back, just given the plat difference of the items bought on the account.

Edited May 27, 2013 by austinrelis

[Guest]

Thing is I have already used my plat. I may upgrade my founders status, but I'm unsure.

 

Tell me how great it would be to have these awesome plat costs with no plat left to spend because you bought everything beforehand? That would be great, right?

When playing games in beta like this which are still seeing changes every week, you should always expect market prices to change and fluctuate.

 

Yes, as annoying as it would be that everything was reduced after you paid for it, that's not really an excuse to not change the prices. Everybody would benefit from a market overhaul. The best DE could do I guess is hand out some in-game exclusive item for those who bought something before they made the change.

[austinrelis]

When playing games in beta like this which are still seeing changes every week, you should always expect market prices to change and fluctuate.

 

Yes, as annoying as it would be that everything was reduced after you paid for it, that's not really an excuse to not change the prices. Everybody would benefit from a market overhaul. The best DE could do I guess is hand out some in-game exclusive item for those who bought something before they made the change.

I am not against changing the price. I am for this change. It is just this fact I worry about.

 

When I have issues and I send in tickets or post on the forum or whatnot, they usually say "Investigating account now!"

 

People could send in a ticket and they could surely give the difference this way.

[Guest]

I am not against changing the price. I am for this change. It is just this fact I worry about.

 

When I have issues and I send in tickets or post on the forum or whatnot, they usually say "Investigating account now!"

 

People could send in a ticket and they could surely give the difference this way.

I can't really comment on how DE should refund people or make it up to them. That's an entirely different hurdle. I just want them to fix those crazy market prices.

[Vyaldyn]

I couldn't agree more with the post. I really, really want the Stalker pack, but I'm not willing to pay 50€ worth of platinum for it. It's simply too much. I'll keep my some 1200 platinum for something else, something cheaper.

[Raulnor516]

Been following this thread all day...really hoping to see some dev posts, or at least some community moderators. I think this is definitely a issue that needs their attention.

[SymphNo9]

Not the same thing, since it deosn't cost DE ANYTHING to refund the platinum. If it then then yeah, it would be a problem, but since it's all digital they can refund everyone's platinum.

Not to mention that it would be a good step to reconcile with the community which would trust them more.

 

Well, I don't know about you but I don't have any insight on how their database infrastructure is. So it is all just assumption saying it won't cost them anything. Then why would Steve post-pone the optional reset for so long, if it was that easy? Because they were freakin' spending man hours on making the god forsaken thing.

[Jack.Bauer]

I honestly agree with everything you said.

 

I Think the prices are kind of expensive in the game, I really hope they take this topic and the replies into consideration

[Niryco]

Before I reset, I had 90% of the weapons in under a month through standard play.

 

People who want to play normally to earn their weapons will continue to do so. Some people are happy spending money in markets and it is not a wise decision to discourage them by making everything in the market overpriced. You're just losing money and irritating people who aren't keen on grind but possibly like the gameplay of Warframe. It's not exactly like the weapons in this game are hard to build either, so why are these weapons so expensive? I can maybe understand what they were going for the Stalker pack, they are rare drops after all. But 800 Platinum is still too much. The ideal zone in my eyes is around 500.

 

 

Nope, Warframe is currently one of the most popular games on Steam, averaging 15,000 players a day. And that's not taking into consideration the players who do not use the Steam client.

 

 

But that's the exact opposite of what you want. By making it easier to jump into the market on impulse, people are more likely to spend money, not feel ripped off, and support the game. If you make it difficult for a person to drop money on a game by just a glance at your store, they're likely not going to spend money. You want them to immediately, AS SOON as they open that store page, to think "wow that's pretty cheap." That's the hook, that's what turns a free player into a paying customer.

80/20 principle would win this side of the arguement since only players who see spending in this game as a less a luxury more of a necessity will do so. Not to mention how they try to keep content flowing, the game is trying to make the end-game even further than before. It can take you less than month, but slowly it would become years after you reset.

 

You may think that by lowering prices you may see a rise in demand, but given that supply is infinity, the thing is that it may not see a rise in spending since players who are willing to spend would still be spending and those unwilling to spend would not be spending. A drop in price won't see a instant cash towards the screen.

 

By keeping players who are free players who play over time, you actually get them to pay over time once they "break" or if not they can pay at the spot. Doesn't warframe praise its art in maps for a reason to get players to enjoy it not rush through it?

 

Thus the agenda is completely different, you are assuming that demand would instantly increasing, however given the elasticity of it as it is still a new game with "quick" grindable content, even impulse players may think twice even without considering the price values. The game may have alot of players, but generally the demand is relatively elastic for many and inelastic for the few.

 

So if they were to lower prices, they would see a rise in short term purchase not long term ones and eventually it would lead to the market demand becoming even more elastic since competitors coming out would lead them to having compete to them on similar terms that would probably never change from if the price were lowered.

 

If competitors were to enter the market and how DE treats their goods are demand inelastic, atleast they can lower prices at those sudden moments to ensure that they can earn cash and trust of players. It is a sort of disillusionment, but if they don't have this players would keep complaining and saying that competitor X is way better than warframe since they can start out at lower prices and etc.

 

There is too many factors to consider that a drop in prices are going to 100% be beneficial to the DE. Right now as it stands what you say that the game has 15000 players alone on steam and given it is a single server with no arms reaching to other countries, this game is essentially on its own a monopoly for now, like minecraft, not to mention people had to pay $20 for and 8bit game when they could even play for free by having "cracked" versions.

 

The game is in a sort of a semi-monopoly as it is a new genre on it own, but given how new it is, it if were to survive more than 10 years, it would have to have a 90% loyal playerbase who will stick to this game spending for the next 10 years. Not those one time spenders who will leave the game after putting in their $10.

 

If DE were to make their virtual goods more demand elastic, chances are since your short term buyers are going to shoot up, you are going to have lesser content to grind, lesser player satisfaction, lesser player retention and eventually losing the majority of your playerbase given how they are going to spend for cheap in-game goods and leave for good.

 

Reset maybe a good way to get players to keep playing, but that is a 100% desperate attempt at clearly they are not giving out content fast enough. With that they game has to give players at the end the option to re-work so that they would stay loyal spenders. That is why so many things in game take a very long time to grind in dojos if you have no cash or in a small clan.

 

They want to keep as many players stuck here as possible if not the game cannot survive for more than a year. Look at so many games these days with a lot of micro transactions which are cheap, many of them are sufferring that fact that they can only retain the 20% of players who are willing to pay and play. The rest 80% do not care and probably are 1 time spenders before leaving that game for being able to unlock all content for funz at their finger tips.

 

Too much power given to players the lesser chance your game would survive the onslaught of lack of loyal players. Only certain games can pull of cheap micro transactions and not to mention those games have to be very popular with up to millions of players not just thousands. These days thousands for F2P games may seem alot, but in reality it is actually quite mediocre since many first rated F2P games which are new can achieve these numbers within a year of its conception.

 

There is no one strategy and what i say does not include sources so it is weak but it is all based on theory. Thus to conclude it cannot be said that they will benefit 100% from this as there is no source which stats the statistically figures of sales for their virtual goods and thus basing ones assumption on that is as good as this post which is based upon theory but supported without a true source that can generate figures.

 

 

Been following this thread all day...really hoping to see some dev posts, or at least some community moderators. I think this is definitely a issue that needs their attention.

 

Having a dev comment on this will make them in a tight spot, we as players are demanding cheaper prices and whatever they say here will take a toll on their future. If one of them agreed and was brought up and no change too place, tell me what would the community feel.

 

If say they came down here to refute and explain their position, would people disagree and rebute them, claiming and flaming that they are con man? Once you think more deeply, they can't really post anything here without getting a form of consequence to their name as well as company.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Jacate

[SkyllianBlitz]

I just want them to fix those crazy market prices.

Indorah, have you seen the threads made by MJ12 on the price issue?

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/23880-cash-shop-prices-how-much-should-things-cost-an-economic-analysis/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46856-conversion-rate-is-king-why-these-market-changes-are-a-terrible-idea/

[Guest]

80/20 principle would win this side of the arguement since only players who see spending in this game as a less a luxury more of a necessity will do so. Not to mention how they try to keep content flowing, the game is trying to make the end-game even further than before. It can take you less than month, but slowly it would become years after you reset.

Luxury and necessity when it comes to F2P games are one in the same. People who want the items will pay for it if it's within their price range. Take the Affinity boosters for example. Those items take away grind by cutting it in half completely. There's nothing wrong with removing grind in a F2P game which you seem to believe. If the person wants to pay to remove or lessen grind, let them. Don't shoot up prices because you want dictate what the pacing of your game should be. Is it more beneficial to appeal to the man with $10 or to push him around?

 

 

You may think that by lowering prices you may see a rise in demand, but given that supply is infinity, the thing is that it may not see a rise in spending since players who are willing to spend would still be spending and those unwilling to spend would not be spending. A drop in price won't see a instant cash towards the screen.

You're thinking in extremes. There aren't two groups of people, one of which buy everything and the other buys nothing. People vary, everybody has different points in which they feel they what is a fair deal and what isn't. By making your prices appeal to the average consumer, you have a much higher chance of selling more of your in-game items. A weapon that costs 225 Platinum that sells one hundred times makes less money than a weapon that costs 75 and sells five hundred times.

 

 

By keeping players who are free players who play over time, you actually get them to pay over time once they "break" or if not they can pay at the spot. Doesn't warframe praise its art in maps for a reason to get players to enjoy it not rush through it?

I disagree. If anything the grind is starting to take its toll on the playerbase. Look how many people complain about rushers. Those players are the people who are tired of the grind and want to end things quick.

 

And players will only spend money if they actually keep playing, the market is currently one of the biggest turn offs of the game alongside limited weapon slots for many people. A player that turns their nose is lost profit, plain and simple.

 

 

Thus the agenda is completely different, you are assuming that demand would instantly increasing, however given the elasticity of it as it is still a new game with "quick" grindable content, even impulse players may think twice even without considering the price values. The game may have alot of players, but generally the demand is relatively elastic for many and inelastic for the few.

If a person isn't going to buy an item at either price point, they're the player who isn't going to spend anything at all anyway. Those are not the people this system appeals to and should not even be considered when handling a market. The same way a bakery doesn't take into consideration people who make their own baked goods at home.

 

 

So if they were to lower prices, they would see a rise in short term purchase not long term ones and eventually it would lead to the market demand becoming even more elastic since competitors coming out would lead them to having compete to them on similar terms that would probably never change from if the price were lowered.

 

If competitors were to enter the market and how DE treats their goods are demand inelastic, atleast they can lower prices at those sudden moments to ensure that they can earn cash and trust of players. It is a sort of disillusionment, but if they don't have this players would keep complaining and saying that competitor X is way better than warframe since they can start out at lower prices and etc.

Short and long term purchase numbers are affected by multiple factors in F2P games. Playerbase size, player perception to how much the item is really worth, how easy it is to obtain, build time, how often sales are introduced etc. An item that is more expensive than players expect it to be will barely sell if at all and in the end that is more harmful. And the playerbase constantly changes, new players are introduced weekly, these new players will spend money if they're enticed into doing so.

 

They want to keep as many players stuck here as possible if not the game cannot survive for more than a year. Look at so many games these days with a lot of micro transactions which are cheap, many of them are sufferring that fact that they can only retain the 20% of players who are willing to pay and play. The rest 80% do not care and probably are 1 time spenders before leaving that game for being able to unlock all content for funz at their finger tips.

 

Too much power given to players the lesser chance your game would survive the onslaught of lack of loyal players. Only certain games can pull of cheap micro transactions and not to mention those games have to be very popular with up to millions of players not just thousands. These days thousands for F2P games may seem alot, but in reality it is actually quite mediocre since many first rated F2P games which are new can achieve these numbers within a year of its conception.

This argument would have solid ground if 90% items in this game didn't take a day at most to build. How is the market in its current state supposed to compete with the Foundry system? Is a day of build time worth $15 to you for a weapon? The only other option DE has besides altering market prices is to make weapons even harder to construct, and I can guarantee you that nobody wants that. Steve has said he doesn't want this game to be about grind. If the game isn't meant to be about grind, you cannot base your market system around the idea of players having to grind. It does not work in the slightest.

 

DE is losing tons of potential profit because the market prices do not match the way items are constructed by players. It's like being offered two boxes of Lego, one comes in pieces for free, and the other is pre-built and costs $20. Who in their right mind would choose the pre-built?

[BraveDude8]

Why does this thread keep dropping off the front page?

 

 

Regardless. DE, please implement these changes.

[Guest]

Why does this thread keep dropping off the front page?

 

 

Regardless. DE, please implement these changes.

I think everybody on this forum who can put in input has given it. So now the discussion has kind of dried out.

 

We just have to hope DE has something planned for their prices, there's been a lot of community feedback related to how high everything costs in the market.

[Pisirk]

I'm curious as to why DE hasn't made a response to this yet. Usually DE Rebecca would put this stuff in community hot topics. 

[SymphNo9]

I'm curious as to why DE hasn't made a response to this yet. Usually DE Rebecca would put this stuff in community hot topics. 

 

Well, to be fair, she hasn't put up a new update yet.

[Mak_Gohae]

I'm curious as to why DE hasn't made a response to this yet. Usually DE Rebecca would put this stuff in community hot topics. 

 

Why are you curious?

They dont need to post to every thread made.

[Icebreccer]

I don't mind if they don't post. What matters is that they actually READ this topic and learn from it.

[Pisirk]

Why are you curious?

They dont need to post to every thread made.

 

Why are you curious that I'm curious?

Never said they need to post to every thread made. Please read what I wrote? HOT TOPICS.

 

You and your rhetoric. Just saying.

[Mak_Gohae]

Why are you curious that I'm curious?

Never said they need to post to every thread made. Please read what I wrote? HOT TOPICS.

 

You and your rhetoric. Just saying.

 

Like i said.... they dont need to post to every thread made.

They choose the Hot Topics, and market pricing isn't some new discussion.

This thing has been going on for a long time, this isnt the first time this same exact idea has been brought up.

[Hafilgar]

But this is the most thought out solution so far. Let's keep it on the first page.