Why Coptering And Multi Shot Changes Are Not Equivalent

[BraverLeech37]

If you don't want to read all of this then just read the bolded parts for the main point

 

Coptering Coptering Coptering COPTERING

 

That is all I hear from anyone trying to defend this change "Oh duh they removed Coptering and made parkcore 2.0 and that's cool so this got be cool too duh" First off They are not equivalent instances of a change. Coptering did not effect a players ability to kill an enemy all it affected was how fast the player could move from a to b. On top of that when Coptering was announced to be remove unlimited stamina and parkcore 2.0 were announced alongside it overall improving melee and player movement. Coptering was not key part of the game but had changes brought into to replace it which made the game better as soon as it was gone. Now with the multi shot change all that has been said is that ammo pools will be adjusted to compensate the increase ammo drain which does not help offset the change. Now there are a number of issues with this the biggest being how the change affects how long people are going to be able to do endless missions most people will not be able to make it past 20mins/waves in T4 void due to enemy armor scaling. If you take multi shot off most builds you basically half your potential damage output to deal with the messed up armor scaling in any endless mission. Even if people keep it on builds and started to use Ammo mutation to compensate it would become one of new must have mods further decreasing build variety. Which I think was really the main idea behind the change in the first place making this change pointless. The point being that Multi shot changes affects player damage which is a key part of this game with out any known plans to addressing Enemy armor and attack scaling to go along with this change.

 

That's my two cents anyway

Edited September 6, 2015 by BraverLeech37

[(XBOX)RFIZZLEDIZZLE]

We got better trade-offs with PK 2.0 vs. PK 1.0 

 

- Better control

- enemy accuracy is affected

- more utility

- freedom of melee

 

They are not doing anything else with the multi-shot nerf. If they are planning to, then they should've said it in the devstream because they knew it would garner a huge backlash and argument within the community. All the changes will do is make 4xCP more mandatory for rotations that were reachable pre-nerf and force players to use certain weapons like lex prime and latron wraith in an attempt to keep the old ammo efficiency. They say that they are promoting diversity, but really are only strengthening a weapon archetype because everything else isn't viable. Ammo mutations will be required for weapons that don't have extremely good ammo efficiency. 

 

 

Well at least you can make that primed fast hands build now. Kappa.

Edited September 6, 2015 by (XB1)RFIZZLEDIZZLE

[Tsoe]

t Multi shot changes affects player damage which is a key part of this game with out any known plans to addressing Enemy armor and attack scaling to go along with this change.

 

That's my two cents anyway

 

 

 

They gonna buff overall damage as well

 

it sound like a good trade off

[EmptyDevil]

All the changes will do is make 4xCP more mandatory for rotations that were reachable pre-nerf 

 

I don't think so. In most examples that people are giving about multi-shot Vs armor, they'd be stupid if they weren't using 4x CP against the enemy. At such high levels the damage reduction would be so insane that multi-shot would barely make a difference anyway. The only endless game mode where 4x CP could potentially not be mandatory in extremely late rounds is Interception, if you cc the enemy til 100% each round.

[IggySnow]

They gonna buff overall damage as well

 

it sound like a good trade off

They never said that. Don't give people false info.

[Abenoki]

most people will not be able to make it past 20mins/waves in T4 void due to enemy armor scaling

I'll be proving this wrong in a video later today or tomorrow after my vay Hek is done with a no multi t4. The only people who won't be able to are those who couldn't in the first place. T4, hell all the content in this game is a joke right now with the only challenge coming at the 40min+ mark in t4.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Echoa

[(XBOX)RFIZZLEDIZZLE]

I don't think so. In most examples that people are giving about multi-shot Vs armor, they'd be stupid if they weren't using 4x CP against the enemy. At such high levels the damage reduction would be so insane that multi-shot would barely make a difference anyway. The only endless game mode where 4x CP could potentially not be mandatory in extremely late rounds is Interception, if you cc the enemy til 100% each round.

Except with the proposed nerf 4xCP would be more mandatory because of the shorter fall-off because of the multishot change. Right now you can go 60+ mins in T3/4 surv w/o 4xCP. With the nerf it will be around 30 mins give or take because dps reduction will be 47.7%

[Judgebanks]

I'm still waiting to move as fast as coptering, just as Steve stated that we could.

[TheBrsrkr]

I think that movement is a very important system in the game.

I also think that many people do not understand what 'optional' means.

[rizzimusprime]

As I have said b4, there are numerous reasons why the proposed multishot change is a mistake and a terrible idea without a dressing other issues.

1. Multishot mods did not work as originally intended at release. Was this issue fixed in a timely manner when it was discovered? Sadly the answer is no. DE "we just rolled with it" and after two years we've just now decided to fix it after the majority of our player base has forma'd and modded their weapons a specific way. "Players will now have to remod their weapons" direct quote from the devstream, sorry guys..."plus it's logical and makes sense", what???? When did logic in a game like this start to effect changes? We have mods that mutate ammo and magically turns bullets into arrows...makes sense to me.

2. Business tactics: what are people using the most? What is currently working the best? Is it fun? If the answer is yes to any of those the nerf it. What sucks right now? Give that a rework/overhaul. Is a good business practice in the long run and makes for profit with content already created but it absolutely kills any and all loyalty.

3. Why do we even have ammo limitations anyway with the current enemy scaling? Their are plenty of games that don't have ammo limits and are able to justify it.

4. Nerf hammers do not promote player based customization, variety does.

5. Emery AI, enemy scaling, weapon balance, mods, and ammo stats need to be looked at first. Maybe enemies and mision types need a ceiling....

Just my 2 cents. Take it as you will.

[(XBOX)RFIZZLEDIZZLE]

Multishot mods did not work as originally intended at release. Was this issue fixed in a timely manner when it was discovered? Sadly the answer is no. DE "we just rolled with it" 

I wouldn't believe that. They have never said in any pervious devstream that multishot wasn't working as intended. The only reason they are saying this now is to utilize it as an excuse just like the unnecessary exalted blade syndicate effects nerf. They put so much effort into exalted blade to make it work with augments, but then they just scraped it because " it wasn't working as intended" apparently. 

 

smdh.

[egypt]

sorry to burst your bubble but removing coptering and parkur 2.0 have changed the gameplay on a level that no multishot change would ever do. just swapping multishot whit any other damage mode and the difference is barely notable before like 40+ min survival. there are only handful of people that go that long on a regular basis and most of them would still manage to hang on there even without this mod.


the nerf is mostly psychological. people hear nerf and declare end of the world. most of the weapon's damage is anyways overkill.

[Abenoki]

sorry to burst your bubble but removing coptering and parkur 2.0 have changed the gameplay on a level that no multishot change would ever do. just swapping multishot whit any other damage mode and the difference is barely notable before like 40+ min survival. there are only handful of people that go that long on a regular basis and most of them would still manage to hang on there even without this mod.

the nerf is mostly psychological. people hear nerf and declare end of the world. most of the weapon's damage is anyways overkill.

Pretty much this, most of the time if I'm not doing a clan run or with friends most people leave at 20-30min because they're struggling to stay alive dmg hadn't even become an issue yet. I don't hit dmg issues till 60min and beyond that it's all about cc and ammo restore because you're burning through mountains of it anyway. Edited September 6, 2015 by Echoa

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

sorry to burst your bubble but removing coptering and parkur 2.0 have changed the gameplay on a level that no multishot change would ever do. just swapping multishot whit any other damage mode and the difference is barely notable before like 40+ min survival. there are only handful of people that go that long on a regular basis and most of them would still manage to hang on there even without this mod.

the nerf is mostly psychological. people hear nerf and declare end of the world. most of the weapon's damage is anyways overkill.

and what about the million players tha DO go past 40 minutes. I would like you to list all of the guns that are overkill on a T4 survival if you think that you can do that. I think you meant the small handful, and those will be scrap for T4 after this. If you want to go play against level 6 grineer for 30 minutes and call your guns overkill then be my guest, but leave my hour staying a** out of it. I don't generally go past that because my boltor, torrid, other high end guns already don't do hardly crap at that point. Your argument is one that doesn't matter, if you don't play that far then don't speak on it. And don't come back babbling about how you do and these guns are overkill unless you can show everyone here some numbers against enemies of that level and a source for that information. If you played that far then you would be irritated like me.

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

Pretty much this, most of the time if I'm not doing a clan run or with friends most people leave at 20-30min because they're struggling to stay alive dmg hadn't even become an issue yet. I don't hit dmg issues till 60min and beyond that it's all about cc and ammo restore because you're burning through mountains of it anyway.

You're almost right, except that you'll be using these much much sooner. Like around 20-30 minutes

[(XBOX)RFIZZLEDIZZLE]

sorry to burst your bubble but removing coptering and parkur 2.0 have changed the gameplay on a level that no multishot change would ever do. just swapping multishot whit any other damage mode and the difference is barely notable before like 40+ min survival. there are only handful of people that go that long on a regular basis and most of them would still manage to hang on there even without this mod.

the nerf is mostly psychological. people hear nerf and declare end of the world. most of the weapon's damage is anyways overkill.

I am one of those people who actually like to do damage to the annoying level 94 scorpion who takes me off of my platform in the raid. I run 60+ min surv frequently, and the drop-off is after the 45 min mark. Anyway you want to put it this change will increase grind since we won't get the most bang for our buck when it comes to keys. It is that simple.

[P0TAT0CANN0N]

sorry to burst your bubble but removing coptering and parkur 2.0 have changed the gameplay on a level that no multishot change would ever do. just swapping multishot whit any other damage mode and the difference is barely notable before like 40+ min survival. there are only handful of people that go that long on a regular basis and most of them would still manage to hang on there even without this mod.

the nerf is mostly psychological. people hear nerf and declare end of the world. most of the weapon's damage is anyways overkill.

Say that to me at 40Mins at T4 and I will laugh at you.

Edited September 6, 2015 by P0TAT0CANN0N

[egypt]

You're almost right, except that you'll be using these much much sooner. Like around 20-30 minutes

if this will be true i can't wait for this change... i cannot count how many time fell asleep on my keyboard before the 40 min mark..

[SlapClown]

People still use split chamber ?

[(PSN)CrackFoxLegend]

Lol, I spy a troll

[egypt]

I am one of those people who actually like to do damage to the annoying level 94 scorpion who takes me off of my platform in the raid. I run 60+ min surv frequently, and the drop-off is after the 45 min mark. Anyway you want to put it this change will increase grind since we won't get the most bang for our buck when it comes to keys. It is that simple.

oh the LOOT... how can i forget about the loot.. silly me.. nevermind improving gameplay, challenge, build diversity etc... they are going to damage the the farming efficiency and the LOOT. how dare you DE?!?

LOOT.. this is what i want to hear from all complainers here. that some won't be able to get 60+ survival and thus farming efficiently. this is the real complain. not all the S#&$ and terrible excuses and  treads like the OP's:

"Coptering was not key part of the game.."

implaying maybe that multishot is a "key part". yea i guess  i have to give OP that. the key part of the game for so many is sadly only the LOOT.

[Tsunero]

The removal of coptering didn't make the game better. It's a silly ballerine fest now.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Momo93

[(XBOX)RFIZZLEDIZZLE]

oh the LOOT... how can i forget about the loot.. silly me.. nevermind improving gameplay, challenge, build diversity etc... they are going to damage the the farming efficiency and the LOOT. how dare you DE?!?

LOOT.. this is what i want to hear from all complainers here. that some won't be able to get 60+ survival and thus farming efficiently. this is the real complain. not all the S#&$ and terrible excuses and  treads like the OP's:

"Coptering was not key part of the game.."

implaying maybe that multishot is a "key part". yea i guess  i have to give OP that. the key part of the game for so many is sadly only the LOOT.

I have stated why this change will not promote diversity but restrict it even further. It is the second post in the thread. Multishot is a key part of the system right now because of terrible enemy scaling. No multishot means getting your butt handed to you by bullet sponges with tracker rockets and strun crewmans. 

 

Plus, loot is a HUGE factor into the game's replay value. People like to have shiny new things, but when the drop tables are already extremely diluted and DE decides to take away a huge source of damage for players without reworking the system, then the grind just got that much higher because you won't scale with those bullet sponges. 

 

But no, let's just be rude to people who use logic and reasoning instead of vulgarity  to convey their message across. 

[egypt]

I have stated why this change will not promote diversity but restrict it even further. It is the second post in the thread. Multishot is a key part of the system right now because of terrible enemy scaling. No multishot means getting your butt handed to you by bullet sponges with tracker rockets and strun crewmans. 

 

Plus, loot is a HUGE factor into the game's replay value. People like to have shiny new things, but when the drop tables are already extremely diluted and DE decides to take away a huge source of damage for players without reworking the system, then the grind just got that much higher because you won't scale with those bullet sponges. 

 

But no, let's just be rude to people who use logic and reasoning instead of vulgarity  to convey their message across. 

sorry if i came off as rude. i'm sad actually. i genuinely belive that the game will improve a lot and the community would be more open to change if it was not so much loot focused.

[ShogunGunshow]

F*** multishot. As long as it comes with a nerf to enemies/buff to guns, I'll be more than happy to rip the mod off my gear. I'd even go one further and bake the neutral +% damage mods into the leveling curve of the weapon if I could, and just leave the elemental mods.