Who Needs A Rework?

[PsychoticMarik]

Nekros needs an Excal/Frost level rework/massive tweaking. Along with a rather long list of others. Most every frame does frankly. Even a few newer ones need some qol improvements.

 

The fact is that every frame needs tweaks and updates, and some need ability replacements. So long as the game evolves the frames will need to as well.

Edited September 9, 2015 by PsychoticMarik

[S0V3REiGN]

This is the order of priorety I would work with. This does not count Valkyr and Saryn:

 

Limbo

Zephyr

Hydroid

Mag

Nyx

[xLordKogax]

Someone told me consoles have some issues with channeling/charging....cause of keybinding, dunno, playin on pc tho ^^

 

Im on PC and I use a PS3 control (DS3 real Motion joy)

 

I play Fine tho mouse works better for Aiming but Parkour and maneuvering is better on Cintrollers imo cuz im terrible with Keyboard and mouse

 

I channel with L2 My PS3 controls set up like Xbox control configs

[Trichouette]

Im on PC and I use a PS3 control (DS3 real Motion joy)

 

I play Fine tho mouse works better for Aiming but Parkour and maneuvering is better on Cintrollers imo cuz im terrible with Keyboard and mouse

 

I channel with L2 My PS3 controls set up like Xbox control configs

I tried to play once with gamepad and i have to say, aiming is (obviously) bad, here i agree with you, but parcour seriously...? When you're used to a keyboard and a mouse, the parcour is way easier than with a gamepad.

I never understood how using R3 and L3 (if these are still called like that... i never touched a PS3 or PS4 gamepad :p ) is supposed to be handy in any way.

These are probably the worst key placement ever made. Even the scroll click is more handy and god knows i hate that thing.

[HadrosaurHero]

Here's an idea I had for Rhino.

1st Ability: Rhino Charge: Instead of a straight line, Rhino Charge is a toggle ability that gives Rhino a speed increase over time. You have free movement and ability lasts as long as you have energy. When hitting enemies you deal damage relative to how fast you are going. Turning slows your speed down.

2nd Ability: Iron Skin: Unlike the current iteration, iron skin lasts for an x amount of time but prevents damage until that time ends. (I'm thinking 15-30 seconds is a good timefrane)

3rd ability: Roar: Roar now gives all teamates and Rhino a damage bonus and a fire rate increase on any weapon. Lasts for 15 seconds (or so).

Ultimate: Rhino stomp. Keep it the same except launch enemies a little high in the air so they stay in stasis a little longer. Also have a cool crater when he stomps.

[Trichouette]

2nd Ability: Iron Skin: Unlike the current iteration, iron skin lasts for an x amount of time but prevents damage until that time ends. (I'm thinking 15-30 seconds is a good timefrane)

uuuuh... no.

That's called valkyr, not rhino.

You can't make him "immortal" for X seconds, that's already valkyr's job.

[HadrosaurHero]

I'm just adding ideas here. Something to turn Rhino into an offensive tank.

Also who knows what's happening to Valkyr.

So anyone got ideas for frames they think should change?

[Trichouette]

Let's make a challenge.

I challenge you guys to find an ability more useless than "well of life".

To me, this is THE ability that need to be removed from the game. Even vauban's bounce is slightly more useful than that.

 

Because right now trinity is in the "need a rework" list, mainly for "well of life". The rest is fine, but this one is just uterly useless.

 

Anyone can convince me of a more useless ability ? :p

[HadrosaurHero]

This isn't the thread for that.

I would like to keep the topic a bit focused on who needs a change and what can be done.

Also Super Jump from before rework. That was the most useless ability ever.

[RagingGrizzly]

Volt. Just... Volt.

[RealPandemonium]

Rhino is entirely useless at end game, he offers nothing other frames can't already provide better.

 

It's not like ash and saryn that are useful but need to spam 4.

 

He has nothing.

 

I'd say he has the priority.

Locking down a 60m radius indefinitely is useless.  Immunity to CC and stray bullets is useless.  Buffing all ally damage unconditionally by >100% is useless.  Invulnerable, unstoppable, fully spammable dash is useless.

Edited September 10, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Tenedranox]

I tried to play once with gamepad and i have to say, aiming is (obviously) bad, here i agree with you, but parcour seriously...? When you're used to a keyboard and a mouse, the parcour is way easier than with a gamepad.

I never understood how using R3 and L3 (if these are still called like that... i never touched a PS3 or PS4 gamepad :p ) is supposed to be handy in any way.

These are probably the worst key placement ever made. Even the scroll click is more handy and god knows i hate that thing.

 

 

Im on PC and I use a PS3 control (DS3 real Motion joy)

 

I play Fine tho mouse works better for Aiming but Parkour and maneuvering is better on Cintrollers imo cuz im terrible with Keyboard and mouse

 

I channel with L2 My PS3 controls set up like Xbox control configs

Well dunno, he said smth about the ps4 controller and that he uses abilities per touchpad in the middle....idc, there is a way to handle that

 

Locking down a 60m radius indefinitely is useless.  Immunity to CC and stray bullets is useless.  Buffing all ally damage unconditionally by >100% is useless.  Invulnerable, unstoppable, fully spammable dash is useless.

I also dont understand the complainings about rhino....but dont forget his damage buff is additive not multiplicative

[RealPandemonium]

Frost can CC better, Frost can defend the whole team, oberon can cure effects, heal the team and grant CC immunity for the whole team both of which frost and oberon's aren't weaker than tinfoil like rhino is that breaks within 2 secodns and help the whole team instead of your sorry !.

 

Having a dash that takes time to cast and time to stop casting and leaves you in the middle of the enemy force is nothing to be proud of.

 

Having 1 useful ability and a bunch of useless crap doesen't justfy the whole class.

DE made Loki for people like you who can't be bothered with having to play a game and just want to skip to the credits.  We don't need 30 Lokis in our cast of warframes.  Some of us are capable of making things work with effort rather than deterministic design.  

Edited September 10, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[RealPandemonium]

Whether you want it or not there are the meta frames and the not meta frames.

 

Meta frames are desired by most people because they are better at end game content and non meta frames are usually not as desirable because they can't compare to the good frames.

 

I don't want to skip all content. What I do want is my favourite class to be wanted/desrable in raids and high level content.

 

If you think that's bad you can stick to venus and mercury.

 

That's how videogames with multiple options work all accross the world, and a petty insult from you isn't going to change that.

Meta frames are easy to play; that's it.  Exploiting overpowered options is a staple in any game, but it should never be a standard of balance.  If everything gets buffed to an overpowered state then there won't be any challenge left and missions will be more like slot machines where we pull levers to get rewards instead of actually having to do things.  

 

Hell, Rhino can even be considered one of those exploitable frames, given how solid his lockdown is against all factions.  Just because he's not completely braindead to play doesn't mean he isn't potentially cheesy as hell.

 

 

I also dont understand the complainings about rhino....but dont forget his damage buff is additive not multiplicative

Just tested to make sure; Roar's damage buff applies to final damage and not base. 

 

100% power strength roar + Stomp (one damage instance) returns 3200 damage (800 *2 *2) and not 2400 (800*2+800.)

Edited September 10, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Tenedranox]

Just tested to make sure; Roar's damage buff applies to final damage and not base. 

 

100% power strength roar + Stomp (one damage instance) returns 3200 damage (800 *2 *2) and not 2400 (800*2+800.)

Quibbling, misunderstanding, thats what i ment, it doesnt scales the power strength instead the overall dmg

[Ryjeon]

Saryn needs a rework. Her damage is too heaped onto one ability and modding for it makes her other abilities nigh-unusable. She's strong at what she does but her kit seriously lacks internal synergy with most of her strength coming from a messed up interaction with negative power duration. She needs some of her combat potential moved onto her other abilities in order to have a more cohesive kit. There's a lot of potential to make an interesting and powerful frame from the poison theme. Miasma spam doesn't do her justice.

[Trichouette]

Saryn needs a rework. Her damage is too heaped onto one ability and modding for it makes her other abilities nigh-unusable. She's strong at what she does but her kit seriously lacks internal synergy with most of her strength coming from a messed up interaction with negative power duration. She needs some of her combat potential moved onto her other abilities in order to have a more cohesive kit. There's a lot of potential to make an interesting and powerful frame from the poison theme. Miasma spam doesn't do her justice.

This is why they want to rework her now. She has one overused ability, a cool decoy, but the rest is useless or too restrictive to use.

Also i hope valky will get something else for her 1 and 3 abilities...

 

Regarding rhino, his stomp might be a great CC, but people tend to use more vauban's bastille, which does a bit the same job.

[Misgenesis]

I was thinking about this yesterday when i was playing Frost.

 

Many frames should get another look to add some ability synergy and passives like some of the frames now have.

[HadrosaurHero]

So anyone want to throw out ideas for a Volt change?

Mainly a new ultimate.

[RealPandemonium]

Saryn needs a rework. Her damage is too heaped onto one ability and modding for it makes her other abilities nigh-unusable. She's strong at what she does but her kit seriously lacks internal synergy with most of her strength coming from a messed up interaction with negative power duration. She needs some of her combat potential moved onto her other abilities in order to have a more cohesive kit. There's a lot of potential to make an interesting and powerful frame from the poison theme. Miasma spam doesn't do her justice.

Doesn't that just mostly mean that Miasma's formula needs to be changed?

[RealPandemonium]

So, what do you suggest? Everthing be nerfed to rhino prime levels?

It would be nice if the popular, easy-to-play frames were changed in ways that make gameplay less deterministic.  Rhino can also do this, so he's even part of the problem.  I can enter a mission with Rhino and just lock down the entire tile, and never really fight anything.  No variance, no creativity or response required; just CC everything and slaughter them (literally) with overtuned weapons that kill far beyond anything DE balanced for.

 

This isn't about a sliding scale of power; the game is not that difficult to begin with.  Rudimentary knowledge of game mechanics/systems and some easily obtainable mods are all you need to get started in Warframe.  Once you introduce powerspam into the equation things start getting ridiculous in terms of things the player can get away with.  A skilled and knowledgeable player can abuse the options available to us to completely trivialize all gameplay, and thanks to guides posted on various sites even an ignorant player can do the same due to how simple it is to abuse the most "meta" frames.   These frames take this to an extreme, creating a situation where potentially the whole team has nothing to do except fire at stationary targets as if they were at an amusement park shooting gallery.

 

If you think this is about "x frame is better than y frame," it's really not.  This is about meaningful gameplay and the potential to completely eliminate it for oneself and potentially for everyone in the squad, with almost no effort.  Those who don't abuse training wheels and try to engage themselves in missions will see that frame abilities that are often derided are actually valid, useful, rewarding-to-use tools that are just overshadowed by other abilities that create a path of least resistance (but at what cost?)

Edited September 10, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Duch99pl]

Ember and Mag for sure, and Rhino's iron skin could use a ; visual update + mechanic update

[Ryjeon]

Doesn't that just mostly mean that Miasma's formula needs to be changed?

 

Changing the formulas would be part of a rework. But I think it's time for the ability to evolve beyond a generic radial nuke. For one thing it could be more like an actual miasma. Give it a spreading debilitating field somewhat like mix of M-Prime and Ice Wave Impedance. Likewise Contagion could act more like it's name. Maybe give it an interaction with Venom so that melee hits could spread spores easier or ignite them in a chain reaction for some burst play. Her 3 and 4 are probably what most needs looking at. Her 1 and 2 function fairly well but her 3 and 4 should be fitted into the gameplay of managing damage over time effects with some intelligent burst potential that plays off of those effects.

 

I'm thinking

 

1 - Venom - Offense, same as now

2 - Molt - Defense, same as now

3 - Contagion - Offense - proliferate spores on target via melee, explodes spores on melee kills spreading to other units, maybe another effect. Just about anything would be an improvement over the current Contagion.

4 - Miasma - Mixed Defense/Offense - Lingering choking cloud reduces enemy accuracy/armor and deals periodic damage. Enemies walking into cloud after casting are affected as well

Edited September 10, 2015 by Ryjeon

[(PSN)GallonOfSkimMilk]

Oberon, ember, hydroid need some major reworks.

Already know that saryn, Valkyr, and volt are going to get reworks.

[MumblesMcphatty]

Oberon, ember, hydroid need some major reworks.

Already know that saryn, Valkyr, and volt are going to get reworks.

Ember had a rework - Oberon needs nothing at all - Hydroid I'd agree with you.

As for the rest of this sadly misguided thread - Nyx needs one power looking at - that's it. Same for Mag. One power addressed does not constitute a "rework".

Ash is fine too - don't hate on him because the USERS can't think beyond Blade Storm. Comparing him to Saryn is a bit of a stretch - since Contagion is useless and Venom is ... of questionable synergy. Ash's powers all synergize well by comparison.

Either way - enough with the rework nonsense people - some frames need tweaks admittedly but there's bigger, more important issues on Warframe's table right now. There's this crazy assumption that every single frame must be meta worthy - THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

Meta has always meant - easiest to use - that's all. There's nothing better about those choices most of the time - they're just brain-leakingly easy to pull off. There's nothing wrong with some frame or team comps taking a little more effort or skill to pull off the same results as a metasquad. If every frame was reworked to be interchangeable with some of meta comps we have - Id die of boredom.