Forma-Ing Weapons Is A Pointless Waste For The Foreseeable Future

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

This logic seems to be the same used by people that were upset they 'wasted' forma on Synoid Gammacor after the ammo nerf. There's no sure-fire way to know what weapons could be buffed or nerfed at any time, so extending this logic it always has been - and always will be - a potential waste to polarize gear.

All we can do is play for the build we have, and trust that DE will try and make the transition as painless as possible. I'm sure they're aware that this is a change that will affect every gun of every player in the game, I don't think they'll do it heavy-handedly.

The gammacore business left a sour taste in a lot of players mouths, especially as a lot of people bought them for plat, having no access to that particular syndicate. I have clan mates who don't even catalyse new weapons for a month or two now, "just in case". Once bitten, twice shy.

Scott's tweet about looking further than just multi shot has a lot of people worried, a reluctance to commit time and resources at this point is understandable really.

[(PSN)PeetSquared]

For those saying this is another whine post, I'd say I disagree. The op was presented in a well thought out way and merely expressed concern. Heck, I'm concerned too but that's about it. I'm the type of player that will roll with the punches and don't see doom and gloom from the upcoming change(s) and it seems most of the folks in this thread are same way.

If anything, I'm sort of excited to see how we all deal with it and what the final outcome will be, from DE's side. Like, will they rebalance weapons? What about Serration/Hornet Strike? Whether we like the changes or not, I find it fun to be involved with a game like this, which is developing while we play.

Edit: When I mention I'm gunshy to keep using forma, it's just my particular situation. I'm in the middle area of being noob and a vet. As such, I have a lot of forma'd weapons but don't have the stockpile of forma or even forma BPs to keep using them up until we see how the changes pan out. In the meantime, I'm hitting up some frames and leaving my weapons alone. I can just use my currently forma'd guns until the dust settles, so no rage frome me over it.

Edited September 9, 2015 by (PS4)PeetSquared

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I guess there comes a point where something we enjoy changes and becomes a source of frustration. I never really expect it from video games, but I guess things happen...

I want Warframe to grow as it's my favorite game so far, but the devs should be mindful that this is still supposed to be meant as entertainment, whereas I'm seeing A LOT of frustration from the community.

[MumblesMcphatty]

These are decent points, but many of my builds are down to last point even with 4+ Forma, so that may not be viable for everything. Also, I'm one of those weird guys that doesn't hate the D polarity. I keep it on any weapon that comes stock with it, and just drop in the respective 90% cold mod. So in my case, no, that's not a Forma I would have had to spend anyway.

Alright - well let's think about it this way then.

Even if your builds are somewhat tight capacity-wise - Multishot is 14 drain - aside from Metal Auger and Heavy Cal - I can't think of many other mainstay mods off the top of my head that wouldn't find room in the builds you have already. Even if they were the wrong polarity - a 7 or 9 drain mod will still fit comfortably.

Now - if they bring out new R10 mods with different polarities following the MS change - I'd be well in your camp on this. But I don't intend to curb or alter my fun based on things I can't control ... or have any means of predicting.

The D - well that's preference of course - I ditch it on reflex simply because there's only 1 mod with that polarity that I use regularly - which makes its prevalence as a common inbuilt polarity a bit of a head scratcher.

[Dizzle22]

You're right. Perhaps I am looking a few too many moves into the future. I tend to do this to a fault, in all matters. I mean, if multi shot and damage mods are on the table now - and clearly they are, going by the tweets posted here - what is next? The 90% element mods are gone?

 

I can't help but feel uneasy about the future of these mods, considering we'll all built specifically polarized weapons around this whole system. I've welcomed most of the changes to the game without too much thought (my low post count should be a good indication of that!), but this will fundamentally change how we mod and improve our weapons. 

 

I'm still likely to be stingy with Forma going forward, though. As I said above, it's not so much a matter of the Forma itself, but the time and effort required to do all this fine tuning. Maybe if they reworked how Forma behaved with all this, we'd be safe.

 

There is a great deal to be considered in all this. I guess all we can hope for is that they do it right, and hopefully compensate those of us that may be screwed over by some of the changes. My Carrier's 9/10 Primed Point Blank was not cheap to rank up! :P

[DrFail]

If I can go slightly off topic, I'm seeing some communication gap happening here.

 

There’s a difference between whining and expressing concern.  Similarly, there’s an even bigger difference between “in the future” and “In the direct foreseeable future”

 

For example:

 

”In the future, out dated science textbooks will be replaced. I shouldn’t take any science courses.”

 

This is crazy. This could apply to any instance of life because it deals with time in unmeasured amounts. It’s hard to live by this choice and many would consider doing so to be unreasonable.

 

 

Vs

 

 

“After this semester, out dated science textbooks will be replaced. I should try to take my science courses after this semester so my work is relevant for longer.”

 

Assuming the science courses can easily be taken next semester instead of this one, this is a smart move. This applies to a laid out period of time that will happen in the near future. You likely use this train of thought every day without realizing it to answer questions such as “Would it be better to eat lunch before or after my meeting?”

 

Just saw a lot of posts throwing around blanket statements about things happening in future times and wanted to try and clear the line up a little. Thanks for the time.

Edited September 9, 2015 by DrFail

[EetNotErn]

Eh power creep is responsible for the majority of wasted forma more than anything else. The most recent examples being Tigris/Sancti Tigris. Plenty of people ditched their fully forma'd Tigris for the syndicate one. And that was in less than a month. 

[CrazyCatLad]

Regardless of whatever is happening with multishot, everything becomes obsolete thanks to powercreep via Primes, Syndicates, Wraith, etc.

 

So yes, formaing is pointless in the long run as you're favorite weapon will probably be primed or given a stronger reskin. Which I hate. I'd rather you be able to meld your old Prova in with the Prova Vandal to retain the formas or potato (but have it start at level 0).  MR can still be obtained.

[Tesseract7777]

I sympathize with the OP, but I also think when we get to used to things in Warframe, we are only setting ourselves up for disappointment. 

 

 

And it's not really just "blah blah blah it's legally beta", it's more than that. It's that anyone who has played Warframe for a while knows it's a living, breathing game that dynamic and constantly changing and evolving. That means that while a lot of things will improve over time, some things that we come to like will also disappear. I'm not saying it's wrong to be frustrated, or to give feedback on how changes can be made better, but I've seen this attitude from a lot of people as of late, where they act in a manner grieving about the game whenever a major change comes along. 

 

Now again, talking about how the change can be made better (or avoided and why if we think the change isn't good) is an important part of feedback. We have devs who regularly livestream to update us and do indeed listen to their fans, so we should tell them what we think can be done. 

 

However, this attitude of constantly being upset any time something has changed, just because we got used to it, or it would take extra work to adapt, is an attitude that I think only hurts the players who have it. I'm not telling people how to feel, but if you continually get really attached to anything specific in this game, when you know how much it constantly changes, you are setting yourself up to be disappointed. I accept that changes like this will happen constantly. So I am prepared for it. 

[EetNotErn]

I sympathize with the OP, but I also think when we get to used to things in Warframe, we are only setting ourselves up for disappointment. 

 

 

And it's not really just "blah blah blah it's legally beta", it's more than that. It's that anyone who has played Warframe for a while knows it's a living, breathing game that dynamic and constantly changing and evolving. That means that while a lot of things will improve over time, some things that we come to like will also disappear. I'm not saying it's wrong to be frustrated, or to give feedback on how changes can be made better, but I've seen this attitude from a lot of people as of late, where they act in a manner grieving about the game whenever a major change comes along. 

 

Now again, talking about how the change can be made better (or avoided and why if we think the change isn't good) is an important part of feedback. We have devs who regularly livestream to update us and do indeed listen to their fans, so we should tell them what we think can be done. 

 

However, this attitude of constantly being upset any time something has changed, just because we got used to it, or it would take extra work to adapt, is an attitude that I think only hurts the players who have it. I'm not telling people how to feel, but if you continually get really attached to anything specific in this game, when you know how much it constantly changes, you are setting yourself up to be disappointed. I accept that changes like this will happen constantly. So I am prepared for it. 

 

Yep. In other words, some people don't like change, are afraid of change and won't adapt to change. Sorry to put it so simplistically but that's really what it boils down to.  Not to say that all change is good but on the other hand, not all change is bad. And sometimes you just have to take changes you don't like with the ones you do.

Edited September 9, 2015 by EetNotErn

[BaronVonBangin]

Let's not get hasty here till we get further information on how DE plans to deal with "mandatory" mods.

 

In the mean time you and I can still enjoy the game till further news.

I like this attitude. Some people just get too caught up in video game drama.  

 

I personally don't agree with the mod change, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, or start making personal attacks. Just be civil.

[(PSN)CowboyJeff72]

If DE really wanted to remove doubts about " To forma or not forma?" Why not alter the system where polarities don't exist anymore. Just have formas cut down the energy use of the highest mods starting from top left and working its way around. For every forma you have, that is another mod. Yes it trivializes the whole system, but at the same time it avoids the "gotta forma a slot again" that takes place for folks trying to squeeze out every bit from the item they are modding.

And if that isn't possible, just make it where you can use a forma on a polarized slot WITHOUT needing to relevel the weapon again.

 

I really like this idea. Most folks forma for a certain build. The polarity is really irrelevant as typically you are going to forma the slots where you are using the higher point mods anyway which means you only polarize it to that polarity because that's where your high point mod goes. So remove the polarity and just leave the rest the same. You still have to get it to 30, you add a forma, have to get it back to 30, and so on. I actually believe this would encourage more experimenting and trying out of other combinations rather than players getting complacent with the same old builds. It also would bridge the time gap between those that have/can put huge hour counts in and those that mainly have to be "weekend warriors". If I can put a forma in with no polarity, I would be more apt to put multiples into things with my limited gaming time. It may not be 6 or 7 like the very serious gamers, but it would certainly be more than one or two. 

 

The second idea has merit also, but I feel the re-leveling actually makes you look at the weapon in different ways as you progress back to 30 and can't always stick your go to mods on it. All just personal opinion however.

Edited September 9, 2015 by (PS4)CowboyJeff72

[(PSN)ZeroRilix]

I sympathize with the OP, but I also think when we get to used to things in Warframe, we are only setting ourselves up for disappointment.

And it's not really just "blah blah blah it's legally beta", it's more than that. It's that anyone who has played Warframe for a while knows it's a living, breathing game that dynamic and constantly changing and evolving. That means that while a lot of things will improve over time, some things that we come to like will also disappear. I'm not saying it's wrong to be frustrated, or to give feedback on how changes can be made better, but I've seen this attitude from a lot of people as of late, where they act in a manner grieving about the game whenever a major change comes along.

Now again, talking about how the change can be made better (or avoided and why if we think the change isn't good) is an important part of feedback. We have devs who regularly livestream to update us and do indeed listen to their fans, so we should tell them what we think can be done.

However, this attitude of constantly being upset any time something has changed, just because we got used to it, or it would take extra work to adapt, is an attitude that I think only hurts the players who have it. I'm not telling people how to feel, but if you continually get really attached to anything specific in this game, when you know how much it constantly changes, you are setting yourself up to be disappointed. I accept that changes like this will happen constantly. So I am prepared for it.

I agree with you bro. You have said exactly what I've had in my mind. I don't care that they change things or how they change it. As long as our time is fully compensated, I'm happy. I love this game so much. I'm optimistic about the change since my Braton Prime is the only weapon or frame I have Forma in and they did a good job with parkour 2.0. We'll see how it goes.

[Dizzle22]

Yep. In other words, some people don't like change, are afraid of change and won't adapt to change.

 

I really hate the overused "people fear change" and "change is good" crap. Don't misunderstand, that is not an attack on you directly, it's just a pet peeve of mine. Change can be good. Change is often good. But change should always be met with healthy skepticism. Change can also be questionable, or even completely unnecessary. 

 

Take Windows.

 

Is a change to Direct X 12 going to be a good change? I'm sure it will be, if you can look past the privacy issues with Windows 10...

 

Was the idea to remove the Start Menu in Windows 8 a "good" change? That's hotly debatable to some, but at the end of the day it was, at the very least, an unnecessary change that only served to piss some people off. Removing it completely was unnecessary for the direction Microsoft had intended for Windows 8, and doing so did not improve anything. They themselves conceded that point with W10.

 

Not all skepticism of change is someone whining or refusing to adapt to change. Not all change makes an actual worthwhile improvement.

[Feallike]

Uhmm who doesn't have Forma out their butt... Its no use saving them you will always have to many. :/ Your basically saying:

 

I don't want to waste time on something that could get worse with a resource that I can get easily because of something that is going to happen in the distant future. 

 

I mean think about it your saying that you don't want to waste time because of something that is long away. You can't waste time when their is no time to waste. The whole point of the game is to waste time! 

 

 

Its like saying: I am going to go build some toys for fun, but I don't want to build a toy car because the toy companies are talking about making a remodeled version and I don't want to waste time making a version that won't be the best.

 

 

Your basically saying: This change that is happening in the future is preventing me from wasting my time in this specific way because that thing might become useless in the distant future and I will have wasted this resource that everyone has to much of.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Feallike

[Kinetos]

"everyone has to much of"

"everyone"

 

 

no, not everyone has too much forma. not everyone plays Void all the time.

[padds]

/shrug i remember sinking 5 formas into my braton then they announced the braton prime , changes come guns drift from the top, does something have to be permanent to have value? do you really believe you will be playing this game for the rest of your life? its all a waste of time to a a degree.

[MumblesMcphatty]

You're right. Perhaps I am looking a few too many moves into the future. I tend to do this to a fault, in all matters. I mean, if multi shot and damage mods are on the table now - and clearly they are, going by the tweets posted here - what is next? The 90% element mods are gone?

Woah woah woah - regular damage mods are not on the table. All they mentioned was Multishot in regards to the community voicing it's concerns over lack of build diversity. Most of the hoopla over Serration and Hornet Strike is just the playerbase freaking out needlessly and jumping to baseless conclusions. Unless by tweets there's something I'm not aware of ... -.-

Until someone comes up with a better suggestion than the ludicrously moronic idea of Serration et al being replaced with innate stat increases during the ranking process - I'd say it's safe. Truly I don't see one of the main progression aspects of the game getting affected hugely in all this. Not anytime soon anyway - Multishot is a hefty enough can of worms as it is.

Elementals - well since they only arrived with Damage 2.0 - we'd be looking at 3.0 for them to be at risk too. Not sure that's on the cards or even DE's focus in all this.

DE has always been good about material reimbursement following big changes. When frame abilities ceased to be mods I had Forma and cores out the wazoo! As for the notion that time has been wasted - all I can say is - did you have fun? If so - it wasn't a waste - mission accomplished.

Point being - don't let concern Over this curb your enjoyment of the game -right now. Hold off on polarising if you feel you must - or just take a break until the changes go through. It's really not such a big deal in the face of having fun killing loadsa things now is it?

[zerogear5]

Even if they vastly change it 2 V and 2 - poles will still be used in 90% of the weapons builds anymore though and then it gets iffy

[fatpig84]

DE will never refund formas or lost time. Get over it.

My Acrid is still weeping and Ogris with 6 stars is now rotting in my arsenal.

Will DE compensate ? Never. Because the moment we choose to play the game, we are bounded by the EULA.

Which states DE can do anything they want, barring the Founders and Prime access.

Having said that, if the MS nerf is harsh enough, i will just reforma.

Forma are cheap if you farmed hard.

Edited September 10, 2015 by fatpig84

[MumblesMcphatty]

DE will never refund formas or lost time. Get over it.

If the changes are encompassing enough - they do just that. When abilities ceased being mods - all the dupes were replaced with cores and Forma was reimbursed when the Warframe slot allocation was changed.

I highly doubt these Multishot changes will actually require this level of reimbursement though - multiple V slots are always going to needed.

[(PSN)Sybaris-]

Let's not get hasty here till we get further information on how DE plans to deal with "mandatory" mods.

In the mean time you and I can still enjoy the game till further news.

Read the whole post before commenting.

[EetNotErn]

I really hate the overused "people fear change" and "change is good" crap. Don't misunderstand, that is not an attack on you directly, it's just a pet peeve of mine. Change can be good. Change is often good. But change should always be met with healthy skepticism. Change can also be questionable, or even completely unnecessary. 

 

Take Windows.

 

Is a change to Direct X 12 going to be a good change? I'm sure it will be, if you can look past the privacy issues with Windows 10...

 

Was the idea to remove the Start Menu in Windows 8 a "good" change? That's hotly debatable to some, but at the end of the day it was, at the very least, an unnecessary change that only served to piss some people off. Removing it completely was unnecessary for the direction Microsoft had intended for Windows 8, and doing so did not improve anything. They themselves conceded that point with W10.

 

Not all skepticism of change is someone whining or refusing to adapt to change. Not all change makes an actual worthwhile improvement.

 

I DID say that not all change is good. And I agree than skepticism isn't necessarily bad. But there really is a demographic of people who hate change. Period. I'm on the forums long enough to see the same people complaining whenever there's a change. It's really predictable to see who will pop up in those threads. There's no healthy skepticism there. it's just people who simply cannot handle change. 

[Meganin]

Well now you can work on having that extra 3.3 punch trough... 

[Dizzle22]

Woah woah woah - regular damage mods are not on the table. All they mentioned was Multishot in regards to the community voicing it's concerns over lack of build diversity. Most of the hoopla over Serration and Hornet Strike is just the playerbase freaking out needlessly and jumping to baseless conclusions. Unless by tweets there's something I'm not aware of ... -.-

 

I fear you've missed out on some new information, then. I can't find the post now, I assume it was absorbed into the megathread (*shudder* not going back there) and I don't tweeter, so I don't have a link for you. But, someone posted screen shots here of tweets from one of the developers.

 

The first one was something along the lines of "all of the feedback on multishot is making us look at a lot more things. time to face the demons" Suggesting that the multishot nerf is not going to come alone anymore, but be part of a much more massive rework.

 

The second shot was of someone directly asking the dev if mutilshot was still coming alone or if it would be a massive update reworking a lot, and mentioned Serration by name. The response was "nucular bomb" I believe.

 

So yeah, it sounds like massive changes to how we mod our weapons are coming.

 

EDIT: here it is https://mobile.twitter.com/GooseDE/status/641274057464389632

 

 

But there really is a demographic of people who hate change.[...] There's no healthy skepticism there. it's just people who simply cannot handle change. 

 

Fair enough. But for every person like that, we seem to have those that blindly accept change, especially in the technology world. They will quickly dismiss any negative feedback as coming from Luddites living in the past. Why do you think Microsoft/Goggle/Apple can get away with such pointless and muscle memory breaking UI changes all the time? MS and Google are especially guilty of moving crap around and/or reorganizing menus for no reason whatsoever. "Change for the sake of change"

 

But more relevant to Warframe, look at the abortion that is Starchart 2.0. Sorry if that is too harsh, but the only excuse I can come up with for that change is that the devs were wanting to cater to the console versions. I hadn't finished the star chart until after 2.0 dropped, so I have had plenty of experience going from node to node on both versions, and I still don't fully understand how the hell you are supposed to navigate in 2.0. Nodes that are touching unlock? I think??

 

 

Well now you can work on having that extra 3.3 punch trough... 

 

I already use Shred on almost all my primaries... so imagine how screwed my builds are when all this drops. :(

 

 

Lastly, to all the people still saying stuff like "what's the big deal, build more formas", go back and re-read, I've already addressed that response several times. I believe in the OP, actually. But I'll add that, while you and I may, not everyone has a stockpile of Forma. I have IRL friends that struggle to have one or two of them to use.

 

With the massive changes coming, I'm going to suggest to all my friends to hold of on Forma-ing for now. The major theme of my post here.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Dizzle22