What I Had To Say To My Clan That I'm Not Happy About At All

[Kiteless]

Take it as you will, but it was certainly not enjoyable telling my (fairly small) clan that we wouldn't be able to take part in one of the larger parts of U8 because of the current state of things.

 

For now, I'm going to suggest no one invest any further in the Dojo. The costs are just way too absurdly high for our small clan to get anything built, and anything invested now would be a complete waste.

Once DE gets around to doing something with the Dojos (if they do anything), we can reevaluate our position then, but until that point, it's just not something our numbers are capable of financing.

I know that it sucks, missing out on a bunch of cool weapons, dueling, and other features, but DE just hasn't made them feasible for our small group.

[Blatantfool]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

[Zhoyzu]

you didnt have to say that. why deny them something if they want to do it anyways. accomplishing it as a small clan would say more then doing it in like 3 days as a large clan. sounds like you're the one at fault

[Cinderain]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

 

Or have resource costs scale depending on the number of members, instead of slapping a single price over everything.

 

If you've got 5 people, why would you invest the resources that 500 people would need? You don't cater to one group, because their gameplay experience isn't more important than someone in a smaller clan.

Edited May 27, 2013 by FatalX7

[Luminati07]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

I don't agree with this.

 

I do agree with the part where you said that DE does not need to hold smaller clans hands, but as it stands, good luck having a reasonable dojo with a small clan.

 

It's 100% reasonable to say that smaller clans should not be able to power through content, but the current prices are completely unfair to smaller groups.

There are plenty of people out there who have a clan consisting of themselves, and several friends, and it's going to take a huge amount of time for them to even have a few rooms built.

 

No, small clans should not have their hand held. But, there should not be such a massive disadvantage (in regards to the dojo) to being in a small group of players.

 

*edit*

At the moment, DE is pretty much forcing players from small clans, into large clans, which I seriously do not agree with.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Nugget_

[Mr.Monday]

Take it as you will, but it was certainly not enjoyable telling my (fairly small) clan that we wouldn't be able to take part in one of the larger parts of U8 because of the current state of things.

This is the exact same conclusion myself and my group of friends came to the moment we saw the prices. Its impossible for us to have our own private clan, especially when we could just assimilate and get all those bonuses for free. It has come to a choice of.

Have our own small private clan for friends, which we want. 

or

Actually get access to any clan features.

 

[Noobxs]

my clan has no more than 20-25 active contributers to our dojo, we currently have 2 projects been built at a time all funded within 3 hours of starting.

 

Numbers are fine tuned for a medium sized clan, the big clans have rushed it and got bored, the little clans should spend more time getting forma from the void and less time on the forums smashing the dreams of others.

[Supern00b]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

It is just as reasonable, or UNreasonable to ask for small clans to pay the costs of http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Research

1000 of these resources that drop in bundles of 1 or 2?

Anything under 20 people will not be able to finish that in anywhere near a decent time. They may aswell join a big clan, craft the weapons and then return.

 

I would do that too if the friends I played with weren't driven off already. So I joined a large clan because I can't be bothered.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Supern00b

[Blatantfool]

It is just as reasonable, or UNreasonable to ask for small clans to pay the costs of http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Research

1000 of these resources that drop in bundles of 1 or 2?

Anything under 20 people will not be able to finish that in anywhere near a decent time. They may aswell join a big clan, craft the weapons and then return.

 

I would do that too if I the friends I played with weren't driven off already. So I joined a large clan because I can't be bothered.

 

 Then your problem is solved. You didn't want to be without the items and you knew that Small clans take significantly longer to obtain these items and you made the choice to jump ship.

 

 It is pointless to sit around, point at smaller groups and say "This is unfair." because it isn't. It isn't unfair, it is common sense. 

 

 Those material requirements are set up in such a way that 30-100 people are what it'd take to really make it tick. That is the sweet spot for active members that'll allow you to do things properly.

 

 So what? You are honestly going to pretend to be surprised the efforts of 10 guys isn't providing the results of the efforts of 60? 

[Gooeyduck]

In my opinion the costs for dojo junk should be dramatically lowered, a cap on the number of players in a clan should be added, and a dojo barracks should be added that increases the clan member cap.

[Zyfe3rX]

Dont join clans like asuro or warbros,

Instead merge some small clans and get players like 150-250

My clan has just more than 250 players, 70+ are daily players. We have built over 15 sections in last few days.

My point is the cost is nothing for huge clans, something for average for medium clans and impossible for small clans

It's called clans, not groups.

Join average sized clan like ours.

Example are : beyond the mid night. And. Cutie mark crusaders. Both have good community and has less than 500 people

[Zukushi]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

 

Well, your gameplay experience is not more important too. I don't see any reasons why big clans have to have only advantages over small ones.

[Dragovich88]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

 

So what your saying is that someone like me who has no friends in this game. My friends are hardcore gamers who like Cod, Planet-side 2 etc. I have to join a bunch of strangers who i don't even know. So i can enjoy everything that this game has to offer ?. I think it's wrong to force players to join clans because i cant make my own with just 1 person just so i can have everything the game has to offer.

[Memnarch]

Community Moderator Blatantfool,

 

I humbly suggest you step off your soap box and re-read your post and examine if anything constructive can be gleaned from your post.

 

You post here under the badge of some authority, yet talk down to a PAYING contrubutor like he/she were a insolent dog soiling a carpet, demening him for bringing up a very real issue with regards to Dojo construction.

 

Warframe is going through some growing pains right now, but those pains arent helped any when people like yourself, who should be encouraging the existing players to keep with it, condescend and belittle customers.

 

We are customers by the way. It's good business sense to not forget where your money comes from.

 

In at least one MMO I can think of, Guild halls (Dojo Equivalent) come in 3 sizes with 3 different costs to buy and 3 different costs to maintain.

It's a very logical concept, the more people using a facility, the larger it would need to be. the reverse is true for small groups.

[Icebreccer]

It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

Not really. The new system just provokes us all to form one huge clan where few people actually do the work and pay for the forma. Rest of the players will be just freeloaders who will grab all the new shiny stuff with no effort at all.

Why should we care if this concept is old and used in various MMOs? I dislike this concept and that's all there is to it. Saying that it's the same with other games doesn't make it somehow more right to me.

Isn't that only logical that if you have a small clan you only need to build a small dojo and if you have a big clan you will have to build a larger dojo? I don't see how scaling the dojo costs would somehow break the clan system.

This game isn't like the usual MMOs. This game is advertized as co-op game mainly for four players. Restricting all the new laser weapons and explosives etc. to huge clans only is somewhat ridiculous...

[Zyfe3rX]

My response to the mats proportional to the size of clans...

It's simple abusable,

Let's say I make clan invite 5 players builds a part, kicks them... Builds another part and repeats, while keeping the cost of sectors as small as possible....

I am against this unless DE comes up with a better idea

OR make 3 different presets that doesn't depend on the number but on quality

Edited May 27, 2013 by Zyfe3rX

[Luminati07]

 Then your problem is solved. You didn't want to be without the items and you knew that Small clans take significantly longer to obtain these items and you made the choice to jump ship.

Are you serious?

No. The solution should never be to just leave your clan and join a group of strangers.

 

Small clans are a part of every single game out there (that have clans/guilds), and smaller groups should never feel like they are locked out from content.

It's fine for them to take a bit longer, that makes perfect sense.

But if you're part of a small clan, and you feel compelled to leave and join a larger one, simply to experience particular content, then something is seriously wrong.

[Ayarai]

 It is unreasonable to ask DE to hold the hand of smaller clans. By making it easier for you they devalue the work of thousands of players who are in larger clans.

 

 Your gameplay experience is not more important then a player in a large clan. If you choose to stick to a small group or not grow into a larger group that is fine, but you better not expect to be able to power through content like a clan who did decide to grow.

 

 This isn't even a new concept. Guilds/Clans are like this in nearly every game with very few exceptions.

 

It certainly shouldn't be unreasonable to write an opinion about the current implementation of the clan dojos and the building costs which are aimed more towards the clans with significant amount of members than clans with say 20-30 people. Of course, at this point DE can't exactly do anything about the costs without actually ending up devaluing someones work.

 

But in terms of future content, in my opinion it would be nice if the game design takes in account that this is a up to 4 player co-op game and not an MMO.

[Cinderain]

It certainly shouldn't be unreasonable to write an opinion about the current implementation of the clan dojos and the building costs which are aimed more towards the clans with significant amount of members than clans with say 20-30 people. Of course, at this point DE can't exactly do anything about the costs without actually ending up devaluing someones work.

 

But in terms of future content, in my opinion it would be nice if the game design takes in account that this is a up to 4 player co-op game and not an MMO.

 

Just because you go into missions with four people doesn't mean that it's not an MMO. It's a dungeon crawler, and now we've got HUBs.

 

We've got thousands of people online at once, all playing together. That alone fits the definition of Massively Multiplayer Online. We've got a Global Chat, progression and market systems on par with other MMOFPS/TPS.

[Blatantfool]

Community Moderator Blatantfool,

 

I humbly suggest you step off your soap box and re-read your post and examine if anything constructive can be gleaned from your post.

 

You post here under the badge of some authority, yet talk down to a PAYING contrubutor like he/she were a insolent dog soiling a carpet, demening him for bringing up a very real issue with regards to Dojo construction.

 

 

 When I state my opinion I have no more authority then anyone else on this forum. I'm a player too, I play just as much as anyone else here. I give feedback too. Drop your pitchfork and keep in mind that before I was ever a Moderator I was a normal player and past my responsibilities I still am.

 

 You don't have to like my opinion. That is perfectly fine. If you want to see constructive then take a look at the many posters taking a moment to reply to me, they are all being quite wonderful about it. This is good stuff. I don't have to agree with them to see they are just sticking to their guns.

 

 

Not really. The new system just provokes us all to form one huge clan where few people actually do the work and pay for the forma. Rest of the players will be just freeloaders who will grab all the new shiny stuff with no effort at all.

Why should we care if this concept is old and used in various MMOs? I dislike this concept and that's all there is to it. Saying that it's the same with other games doesn't make it somehow more right to me.

Isn't that only logical that if you have a small clan you only need to build a small dojo and if you have a big clan you will have to build a larger dojo? I don't see how scaling the dojo costs would somehow break the clan system.

This game isn't like the usual MMOs. This game is advertized as co-op game mainly for four players. Restricting all the new laser weapons and explosives etc. to huge clans only is somewhat ridiculous...

 

  It doesn't really encourage dogpiling into one giant clan. I'm IN one of the giant clans. You seriously don't need to be in one.

 

 30-100 people active is the kind of sweet spot you want. If you are in a clan somewhere between those two numbers then your clan is capable of progressing just fine.

 

 What is funny is - that kind of clan is actually still quite small compared to the other successful clans right now - but you'd still be able to keep up and complete just as fast. The majority of Dojo building is spent waiting once you are well within the sweet spot.

 

 

 Scaling has to be handled carefully. I think many people will complain if they do add it, because I feel like the 'tiers' they put into play wont match what they consider to be whats is needed.

 

 As a quick example - What do you consider a 'Small clan' and a 'Large clan'? Just give me a number where you think that clan officially fits the description of 'Large' or 'Small',

[Zyfe3rX]

So what your saying is that someone like me who has no friends in this game. My friends are hardcore gamers who like Cod, Planet-side 2 etc. I have to join a bunch of strangers who i don't even know. So i can enjoy everything that this game has to offer ?. I think it's wrong to force players to join clans because i cant make my own with just 1 person just so i can have everything the game has to offer.

When I joined this game is knew nobody, now I got a clan of 260 players and over 150 friends... So much for strangers

I recently bought master a package and joined Design council... I never knew those players.... Bunow I have made over 20 friends in past few days..... Again there is no point in says strangers and stuff

As long as you are friendly. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO PROBLEM IN FINDING FRIENDS

If you are not ready to accept others, that's you problem.... It's better for you to stay in uber small clans, forfiet rewards and die out

Edited May 27, 2013 by Zyfe3rX

[Second_Measure]

Isn't that only logical that if you have a small clan you only need to build a small dojo and if you have a big clan you will have to build a larger dojo? I don't see how scaling the dojo costs would somehow break the clan system.

 

You get a 'small' dojo already, just by crafting the key for it. Boom, got a decent sized room which looks fantastic. So when you are 'that' small, why bother with more rooms that rarely people will use ?

 

I see it as unwise for DE to spend their limited resources and time to adjust such things based on clan size.

[Cinderain]

You get a 'small' dojo already, just by crafting the key for it. Boom, got a decent sized room which looks fantastic. So when you are 'that' small, why bother with more rooms that rarely people will use ?

 

One decent sized room? That doesn't actually do anything?

 

More rooms that people will rarely use? You mean the rooms that give you access to dueling and the rest of the weapons?

[TraumaHunter]

 You don't cater to one group, because their gameplay experience isn't more important than someone in a smaller clan.

The fact that I'm in a topic with Fatal, he isn't trolling and I'm agreeing with everything he is saying should be a sign that hell is freezing over.

Blatant - you realize that you are unconstructively shutting down the other argument as if your opinion is fact?

If the tables were turned and clans scaled based on your number of players - would you not be in the forums saying "Why are you punishing us for being in a large clan?  We have people who don't contribute!  It is not fair to weigh us as equals!"

The fact is that is where the small clans lie.  We are being punished for being in a small clan.  It is not fair to weigh us on the same exact scale a 2000 member clan is.  They scaled the material costs to one group.  Your clan size just happens to be in that group size - so you have no complaints.

Edited May 27, 2013 by TraumaHunter

[Milliea]

The cost is not even that bad in small clans, I mean sure 5 people can´t build everything within a week but that just gives you a long term goal. Rome wasn´t build in a day, neither should the Dojos be. The scaling is fine for small guilds considering a solo hardcore grinding player should be able to get a room/week without counting the forma ofc.