Lets talk Warframes (Classes) and Mods.

[Enfo]

Hello fellow players.

After playing for awhile and thoroughly enjoying the game i have run into this issue while playing on the higher level maps, and this bothers me quite a bit. Monsters start to hurt, "well duh", you might say. But this is not the general issue that bothers me. Like myself, i'm pretty sure a large portion of the playerbase has figured out how much the 70% armor Warframe mods come to use at this point. As a matter of fact, you're pretty much forced to use these, and as many as 5 to 6 out of your limited 8 mod slots to get a fair chance of survival.

This is where i ask, will we possibly be seeing more mod slots soon, or in the near future?

Right now i feel quite limited only being able to use 2-3 of my Warframe slots or either be in the back of my troop when playing, to feel safe.

Is there perhaps another way to work around this issue, or am i really the only person who feels this way?

Perhaps improvements to shields so that you don't lose 100% of it within a few seconds of being hit by monsters?

Or perhaps dodge chance mods with 5-10% chance on them (with limits to 20-25%), or other types of new mods, such as X% chance to proc a shield which lasts/absorbs for X amount of time/damage. There is probably a large number of choices to dig up, but that's where i think we all should come together to share our ideas.

Any other suggestions, feedback, critique is more than welcome.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Enfo

[sambarpowder]

Some form of scaling could be introduced to the game, but that would affect farming adversely if it were tied to the player...

[Enfo]

Bump

[Zakalwe]

I use a single +70% mod and two +30%, I don't find my frame squishy at all.

Solo Pluto, too, you just need to kill defficiently without trying to rush it.

[Enfo]

I use a single +70% mod and two +30%, I don't find my frame squishy at all.

Solo Pluto, too, you just need to kill defficiently without trying to rush it.

Please stop stating things like this is MY issue. This is a feedback forum and this is my feedback.

I observe from other people, and in general, and give response like they expect you to do as a Beta tester.

I'm glad YOU know how to play, welcome to the club.

This is about general issues, and not me.

[Zakalwe]

But I don't think it is a general issue. I think the game is a good level of difficulty and the frames can be modded to a point that is balanced with the difficulty of the content. This is not only from my experience alone, I'm basing this on what others have said too.

Just because YOU find it difficult doesn't mean the frames need more armour.

I guess they could add the option and those of us who don't have this issue could simply take less armour than you,,,

[Enfo]

But I don't think it is a general issue. I think the game is a good level of difficulty and the frames can be modded to a point that is balanced with the difficulty of the content. This is not only from my experience alone, I'm basing this on what others have said too.

Just because YOU find it difficult doesn't mean the frames need more armour.

I guess they could add the option and those of us who don't have this issue could simply take less armour than you,,,

Once again, this is not my issue. I don't know how much of the thread you're reading before answering, but please do. You're welcome to join me in-game if you believe that this is an issue of mine, which i can guarantee you that it isn't.

[Zakalwe]

You certainly do not need to take that many armour mods for a chance to survive, half that is more than enough.

Saying "You're pretty much forced to take them", imo, is not indicative of the general concensus. I've not noticed this complaint from many players, not enough to call it a gamewide issue or a problem that requires addressing.

We could go in game, you and I, and play with a bunch of random players on pluto. First, we could ask them what mods they have installed, and see if those who don't take as many armour as you say is absolutely necessary drop much more often than those who do.

I'm pretty sure we souldn't see much difference.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Ced23Ric]

On the general topic of "Classes":

According the DESteve, Warframes will see something along the lines of "classification", having unique passives and base stats, for example, which elevates them from mere looks & four abilities to distinct frames.

On the topic of armor mods:

I am running 2x 70%, 1x 68%, 1x 40% / 39% Melee Damage. The rest is health, melee damage, stamina recharge. Not a single shield mod. Regardless whether I am playing Rhino, Loki, Volt or any of the other frames, I am not finding difficulty beyond my own faults. Picking the wrong fights, bringing the wrong gear (I stubbornly stick to Electricity/Freeze, even against Grineer/Infested), going into a room that has not been scouted properly, etc. If I die (which I do), I die because of my own mistakes - not because the game shot through my paperthin defense. At the above armor levels, I am being hit for 1 to 3 damage per shot.

This is where i ask, will we possibly be seeing more mod slots soon, or in the near future?

That'd be a straight-up across the board buff for all frames. As a result, it would mean that the enemies need to be tougher again. That's an arm's race that does not fix the problem. Players with ... less than cautious approaches to high level content will simply use the new slots to stack even more defense, deeming it necessary whereas players with a sense for tactical approaches will stuff those slots with power, facerolling the higher content even faster.

Is there perhaps another way to work around this issue, or am i really the only person who feels this way?

Maybe you are not the only one, but that does not validate your point of view automatically. I for one, and others, think that a) seven armor mods is overkill and b) personally know people who run muh less armor mods. You may not be alone with it, but you are certainy not the majority.

PS: I am not saying you are bad. But maybe you need to revise your playstyle. A friend of mine, for example, was enraged at this game how it would always kill him, until we told him to stop meleeing everything. He stopped trying that and started actually scanning his sectors and died a lot less.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Ced23Ric

[Zakalwe]

Perfectly put, Ced.

Perhaps you guys could feedback here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5589-general-consensus-on-difficulty-of-warframe-please-feedback/

[Ryme]

I would like to know how armor mods work. It seems like stacking armor % past 100% is the norm. Is armor not straight damage reduction?

Also, how does armor penetration mods for weapons work?

[Enfo]

Maybe you are not the only one, but that does not validate your point of view automatically. I for one, and others, think that a) seven armor mods is overkill and b) personally know people who run muh less armor mods. You may not be alone with it, but you are certainy not the majority.

PS: I am not saying you are bad. But maybe you need to revise your playstyle. A friend of mine, for example, was enraged at this game how it would always kill him, until we told him to stop meleeing everything. He stopped trying that and started actually scanning his sectors and died a lot less.

I am just going to cut it here as every single person thinks that the issue with armor is my personal issue. I am in no ways having problems with the game. Personally i see myself as one of the better people overall. But thanks for reminding me to improve even though i can solo every single thing in the game without having to exploit anything, which you are more than welcome to experience, by the way.. I suppose i put this thread in a wrong way since this is mostly what people come here to say, and therefor end the discussion on my part here.

[Zakalwe]

I am just going to cut it here as every single person thinks that the issue with armor is my personal issue. I am in no ways having problems with the game.

Well, you're telling us there is a problem. You want to take less armour BUT you require a large amount of armour mods or you die a lot.

So yes, you have a problem and you would like it solved.

There are two ways I can see to solve this:

The devs can cater to your rquest

or

You can improve so you don't require that amount of armour mods

It can be done with much less than 5-6 of them.

Personally i see myself as one of the better people overall.

Well, I don't think you are seeing as the above is true. The best players won't require to be stacked up on armour mods to survive.

But thanks for reminding me to improve even though i can solo every single thing in the game without having to exploit anything, which you are more than welcome to experience, by the way..

Sure, you can do it IF you pile on the Amrour mods. Whch is fine.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Enfo]

Yes, you are, you require a large maount of armour mods or you die a lot.

Well, I don' think you are seeing as the above is true.

Sure, you can do it IF you pile on the Amrour mods. Whch is fine.

So you're saying that i should be using the lousy setup that you have to do high-end content?

And yes i pile armor because that is the only way to do stuff efficiently at the moment. I don't see why i should be using a bad setup in order to do stuff in a slower paste than what i am right now, your whole point stops making sense at that point.

I, like any other player with common sense always go for the things which are the best in any kind of setup.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Enfo

[Zakalwe]

So you're saying that i should be using the lousy setup that you have to do high-end content?

Seeing as I can solo the high end stuff without dying, then yes, you should probably practise until you can too!

Either that or just carry on the way you are and hope the devs cater to you?

And yes i pile armor because that is the only way to do stuff efficiently at the moment. I don't see why i should be using a bad setup in order to do stuff in a slower paste than what i am right now,

I, and others, do the Pluto content quickly, don't use revives, solo, using the limited mods that we've been lucky enough to find.

I almost don't want to find better mods, the game will become hardly any challenge at all!

Sorry if that offends you. :/

Edited January 20, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Enfo]

Seeing as I can solo the high end stuff without dying, then yes, you should probably practise until you can too!

Either that or just carry on the way you are and hope the devs cater to you?

I, and others, do the Pluto content quickly, don't use revives, solo, using the limited mods that we've been lucky enough to find.

I almost don't want to find better mods, the game will become hardly any challenge at all!

Sorry if that offends you. :/

Want challenge? go play single player games. This is an online game. I am an elitist, not a carebear. And like any other online game i go for the top position in anything, that's how i have fun. You have fun soloing Hades with that setup, and without any exploiting or 1 hit skills. If that's how you play the game, then cool with me. That's not how the majority in online genres do though. I have beta tested games for far too long to not know about all that. The majority wants content that makes them stronger, not weaker. We have games like Dark Souls and what not to challenge ourselves in.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Enfo

[Zakalwe]

Want challenge? go play single player games. This is an online game. I am an elitist, not a carebear. And like any other online game i go for the top position in anything, that's how i have fun. You have fun soloing Hades with that setup, and without any exploiting or 1 hit skills. If that's how you play the game, then cool with me. That's not how the majority in online genres do though. I have beta tested games for far too long to know about all that.

Again: I have no difficulty running Pluto quickly, with no deaths, no exploits, no one hit skill spam, and with the mid range mods I currently own.

I'd like to know how many others find it too easy, too, so we can feedback to the devs and adjust the difficulty accordingly.

When I played Me3 co-op, I always anted to solo Gold. I found it very difficult at first, and I thought the game was too hard. Then I practised, and practised, until eventually I could do it with my Turian Soldier almost every time.

So, yeh, practise makes perfect I guess!

[Enfo]

Again: I have no difficulty running Pluto quickly, with no deaths, no exploits, no one hit skill spam, and with the mid range mods I currently own.

I'd like to know how many others find it too easy, too, so we can feedback to the devs and adjust the difficulty accordingly.

When I played Me3 co-op, I always anted to solo Gold. I found it very difficult at first, and I thought the game was too hard. Then I practised, and practised, until eventually I could do it with my Turian Soldier almost every time.

So, yeh, practise makes perfect I guess!

This game should never be compared or driven into the same state as Mass Effect 3. Just saying.

[Ced23Ric]

There is some contradiction - you are saying, on one hand, that you are one of the better players, yet you are saying that you deem stacking 8 armour mods the most efficient. Yet, other people are saying that are fine with 3, 4 mods and enjoy the benefits of other mods - such as power efficiency, melee damage, stamina recharge, power duration, power range, power strength, shield recharge, shield capacity, etc.

So, either the ones running with 3 - 4 armour mods are lying or you require more protection to be able to solo the lategame. While the prior isn't true, evidently, the latter begs the question why you have to limit yourself. You call our setups lousy, and yours efficient, although we have a much higher killing potential than you - simply because we can boost offensive stats over defensive ones. If you need or require so many armour mods, then maybe you are not as good as you think you are.

Which in turn invalidates your statements to the contrary.

I for one enjoy my +71%, +75%, +39% melee damage, +60% stamina recharge and +142 health.

[Zakalwe]

This game should never be compared or driven into the same state as Mass Effect 3. Just saying.

Yes, you are an elitist.

Which is much different to "being elite".

If you need or require so many armour mods, then maybe you are not as good as you think you are.

Right.

[Eversor]

Armor is not the answer atm, the health damage reduction doesnt compensate the loss of a slot Enfo. I played with you several times, didnt know you had problems with pluto. I had a little problems too until i realized that i cannot stomp and rush things like in other systems. A different approach is needed.

Not want to sound rude here, but hey, I don´t care what others say about armor cause i tested my Rhino with an absurd 400% worthless armor setup only to see what happens: ARMOR IS USELESS

Edited January 20, 2013 by Eversor

[Enfo]

There is some contradiction - you are saying, on one hand, that you are one of the better players, yet you are saying that you deem stacking 8 armour mods the most efficient. Yet, other people are saying that are fine with 3, 4 mods and enjoy the benefits of other mods - such as power efficiency, melee damage, stamina recharge, power duration, power range, power strength, shield recharge, shield capacity, etc.

So, either the ones running with 3 - 4 armour mods are lying or you require more protection to be able to solo the lategame. While the prior isn't true, evidently, the latter begs the question why you have to limit yourself. You call our setups lousy, and yours efficient, although we have a much higher killing potential than you - simply because we can boost offensive stats over defensive ones. If you need or require so many armour mods, then maybe you are not as good as you think you are.

Which in turn invalidates your statements to the contrary.

I for one enjoy my +71%, +75%, +39% melee damage, +60% stamina recharge and +142 health.

Yes, because i clearly stated that i used 8 armor mods, right? no... And i don't use 8, neither do i use 6. Nowhere have i stated how my build goes and what i use specificly in it. Unfortunately for you i know how to play the game, and in a much better way than you, looking at your youtube videos (no offense).

This whole thread was sadly just a suggestion to add new ways of survival, but everyone seems to ignore that and just go straight to me as if i am having issues. I was talking in general, and not about myself. But apparently you can't post something like this without it pointing to yourself on these boards. I'm truly sorry.

Armor is not the answer atm, the health damage reduction doesnt compensate the loss of a slot Enfo. I played with you several times, didnt know you had problems with pluto. I had a little problems too until i realized that i cannot stomp and rush things like in other systems. A different approach is needed.

The thing is, i don't. I don't have problems with anything in the game at all at this point. People just don't understand that.

I build my stuff after what is most effective, not because i feel like building something for a challenge or because i like it that way. I really don't care how anyone else builds their characters, that is their business. I do perfectly fine building mine the most efficient way, and i will keep doing that.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Enfo

[Zakalwe]

Your initial post clearly states that you require 6 max armour mods to survive.

Are you now saying you can clear the areas in question just as quickly with just 2 max armour mods?

[Enfo]

Your initial post clearly states that you require 6 max armour mods to survive.

Are you now saying you can clear the areas in question just as quickly with just 2 max armour mods?

No, even if i don't feel like sharing it, i am using 4x70% armor mods, 2x 40% armor + 75% melee damage mods, and 2x+75(74) health mods.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Enfo

[Zakalwe]

No, even if i don't feel like sharing it, i am using 4x70% armor mods, 2x 40% armor + 75% melee damage mods, and 2x+75(74) health mods.

Well, the entire reason for our discussion with you was that you wrote:

As a matter of fact, you're pretty much forced to use these, and as many as 5 to 6 out of your limited 8 mod slots to get a fair chance of survival.

And it's not true. While you may currently feel like you are, many of us can do it with less.

-

Now, what we need to discover are the mods the players who claim the end content is too easy are using.

I think it's too easy, and the mods I use are: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5589-general-consensus-on-difficulty-of-warframe-please-feedback/

Now, I'm sure I'm far from the best player here, so if I find it too easy with these mods, I reckon there must also be a fair few who also do.