Let's Talk Duplex Triggers.

[Trichouette]

"would u be ok with a dmg reduction to tigris weapons and the duplex trigger removed? or keep the current stats and also keep the current uncomfortable firing mechanism ?"

Absolutely against, i don't even find the firing mechanism uncomfortable or anything, so it's a no for me. Also for the people who offer "left click for 1 barrel and alt fire for the second one", it's kinda like asking back for the alt fire shoting 1 barrel, you know that bug which happened with the introduction of the alt fire key, and DE stated it won't come back. So i'm not sure something like this could happen since it's mainly the same.

[srlhama]

Sometimes I think is just me that like the duplex auto, you are going to release the second shot lessvthan 1sec after the first, and the unconfortable sorry is just meh.

[Trichouette]

Sometimes I think is just me that like the duplex auto, you are going to release the second shot lessvthan 1sec after the first, and the unconfortable sorry is just meh.

You're not the only one who likes that mechanic, i do too. I don't get how holding your click for 2 sec is bothering, especially when holding a weapon that does 30k damage per shot.

[Bobtm]

Duplex Auto isn't an objectively bad trigger mechanic, though it is one which is (for what may as well be no legitimate reason) not liked by many players. If holding the mouse button/fire button down while using the Tigris is too much for a player, than the same player cannot possible be capable of utilizing the following;

• Dread
• Paris Prime
• Drakgoon
• Soma Prime
• Boltor Prime
• Opticor
• Ignis
• Every other charge weapon I didn't list.

A player literally has to hold the firing button down more on every one of these weapons than they would/do with the Tigris. If you complain about having to hold the fire button down for the Tigris' mechanic, but have and or regularly use any of the above weapons, well then I'd say there's a bit of a problem with your stance here.

Tigris' current firing mechanic is fine.

[stoybot]

Lots of people have complained about discomfort, yet some still reply with childish comments like "are you a PC gamer or what"... There was even a long thread about it after DE fixed the alt-fire mechanic. I take weapons with this much firepower to very long missions, so even if the firing mechanic isn't a problem for normal missions, the discomfort becomes very noticeable after an hour of using it. Those 2-3 seconds of holding down the fire button add up to a lot after several thousand kills. This is why my Tigris, before I made the Ammo Stock modification, was collecting dust alongside my 6-forma Drakgoon. I get that purists cringe at the sight of a 3-shot Tigris, but if it makes the weapon more comfortable to use, I'll absolutely mod it for 3 shots.

[Raidrak]

one question for consideration

 

"would u be ok with a dmg reduction to tigris weapons and the duplex trigger removed? or keep the current stats and also keep the current uncomfortable firing mechanism ?"

There's no need to damage reduction uppon an almost impossible change of duplex-auto trigger (since DE will never change it). The tigris should shoot in quick succession akin to semi-auto firearms and had the ability to shoot both shells at same time and not in a burst fire (the way a boomstick should work to begin with).

 

Absolutely against, i don't even find the firing mechanism uncomfortable or anything, so it's a no for me. Also for the people who offer "left click for 1 barrel and alt fire for the second one", it's kinda like asking back for the alt fire shoting 1 barrel, you know that bug which happened with the introduction of the alt fire key, and DE stated it won't come back. So i'm not sure something like this could happen since it's mainly the same.

Not everybody asks for changes with the alt-fire bug in mind, I even doubt most people ask for this reason anyway. I came from another game, where the boomstick works the way it should, quick firerate and a secondary key for a double shell to the face, tigris is just a shotgun with a burst fire, akin to sybaris, and an awkaward triggers that I never saw before in any game.

TBH this game need some serious changes in various, if not all, aspects. Tigris problems fell on the fact that some weapons shouldn't have magazine extension capability, sheesh Tigris shouldn't even be accounted with a magazine since it don't have a magazine to begin with, this make impossible to implement a true boomstick mechanic since the system allows for the awkardly odd quad-shot build.

[SlightVect]

Duplex Auto isn't an objectively bad trigger mechanic, though it is one which is (for what may as well be no legitimate reason) not liked by many players. If holding the mouse button/fire button down while using the Tigris is too much for a player, than the same player cannot possible be capable of utilizing the following;

• Dread
• Paris Prime
• Drakgoon
• Soma Prime
• Boltor Prime
• Opticor
• Ignis
• Every other charge weapon I didn't list.

A player literally has to hold the firing button down more on every one of these weapons than they would/do with the Tigris. If you complain about having to hold the fire button down for the Tigris' mechanic, but have and or regularly use any of the above weapons, well then I'd say there's a bit of a problem with your stance here.

Tigris' current firing mechanic is fine.

 

I completely disagree with you there since you're attempting to compare Charge weapons,Who have a spool up time of less than a second with a single mod (Excluding opticor who has around 1.5 with 2 mods). to something that requires you to hold a shot for a moment or use a cheap trick to make use of. We're talking about how the firing mechanism is impractical and could use tweaking. 

 

one question for consideration

 

"would u be ok with a dmg reduction to tigris weapons and the duplex trigger removed? or keep the current stats and also keep the current uncomfortable firing mechanism ?"

There would be no legitimate reduction. The DPS would literally be the same. You're assuming there would be a nerf to its damage which has nothing to do with a firing mechanism. .-. (The only way the damage would be reduced would be if there was some massive delay between shots.) 

 

In order to get the quick shots that the Tigris can do with duplex trigger, you'd have to have one hell of a quick tap. You'd see people waste just as much ammo if not more because of that.

 

Oh no, I can't roll/reload/melee to cancel the second shot, whatever am I going to do.

 

It's not that hard, and even if you end up wasting a shot, so what? You'll get your ammo back quick enough unless you can't aim to kill enemies. It's not tough, it's not in the least bit tough to make this thing work.

 

So instead make a hek with half the clipsize? Yeah, because we need even more complaints of diversity on these forums. If you haven't seen people using it right then you aren't playing with the right people. If I can be arsed to care about a wasted shot, then i can aim it properly. If I can't then who cares, it's one shot that i'll get back and then some every couple of kills thanks to how shotgun ammo drops. And, since I can kill things in generally one shot, that means I'd need to consistently get no shotgun drops for 11+ enemies in order to start to hurt my ammo economy.

I'm trying to read between the cynicism and sarcastic/Disrespectful undertone so bear with me here as I go every every point you just made.

1.Double tap. We currently have semi auto triggers that most players can literally do just that and be perfectly fine and not cause unnecessary strain. (See Akbolto or Akjagara which can be emptied within a second.) 

2."I can't cancel the Reload!". You're proposing we Break the game's coding to cancel out the second shot being used by Meleeing or Rolling? So we fight broken with more broken, huh? 

3.The Hek. How is that relevant here?

4.Ammo economy. This is relevant how? We're talking comfort of use, not ammo economy. Hence why I myself am disregarding ammo efficiency. That's an entirely different issue altogether.

I wanted to point out that the Duplex Auto Trigger needs revision or improvement. 

OMG having the beastliest boomstick in the game isn't enough. Pls remove the only downside DE and add autoaim too.

I'll be honest, I kek'd +1.

 

Edited September 16, 2015 by Pometheus

[crackbeard]

I love the tigris firing mechanic. 

[theammostore]

I completely disagree with you there since you're attempting to compare Charge weapons,Who have a spool up time of less than a second with a single mod (Excluding opticor who has around 1.5 with 2 mods). to something that requires you to hold a shot for a moment or use a cheap trick to make use of. We're talking about how the firing mechanism is impractical and could use tweaking. 

 

There would be no legitimate reduction. The DPS would literally be the same. You're assuming there would be a nerf to its damage which has nothing to do with a firing mechanism. .-. (The only way the damage would be reduced would be if there was some massive delay between shots.) 

 

I'm trying to read between the cynicism and sarcastic/Disrespectful undertone so bear with me here as I go every every point you just made.

1.Double tap. We currently have semi auto triggers that most players can literally do just that and be perfectly fine and not cause unnecessary strain. (See Akbolto or Akjagara which can be emptied within a second.) 

2."I can't cancel the Reload!". You're proposing we Break the game's coding to cancel out the second shot being used by Meleeing or Rolling? So we fight broken with more broken, huh? 

3.The Hek. How is that relevant here?

4.Ammo economy. This is relevant how? We're talking comfort of use, not ammo economy. Hence why I myself am disregarding ammo efficiency. That's an entirely different issue altogether.

I wanted to point out that the Duplex Auto Trigger needs revision or improvement. 

I'll be honest, I kek'd +1.

 

1. Those weapons are semi-auto. THe person I quoted basically wanted the Tigris to be full auto. Hold the button for both shots. If they want it to have the same possible rate of fire that we have now with duplex auto for both shots, they would have to tap really really fast, twice as fast as normal, to not waste that second shot.

 

2. In the mean time? Yes. Adapt to the circumstances and do what you can to get your ease of use out of it. If holding the button hurts, break the code so you don't have to until such a fix comes in, if one ever does. And if it doesn't then just deal with it.

 

3 and 4. Once more we need to look at who I quoted for context. Making the Tigris semi-auto would just make it a Hek with half of a clipsize and some damage changes. With the talk I see about how people are upset with DE at just making reskins of weapons mechanically, I doubt this would be any kind of actual solution. Also, The tigris can often get a one shot kill, so the person stating that players often waste ammo on a weapon that gets 10 ammo per pickup and often gets one shot kills would mean that the user would have to get exponentially unlucky with ammo drops in order to run out of ammo. Therefore, wasting a single shot is entirely pointless to the discussion.

 

and to address the op directly, it's not a bad mechanic and it doesn't need revision or improvement. It works as it is as it gives players a fairly intuitive method at controlling their shots and DPS and making sure each shot counts. If I know it takes two shots to kill this gunner, it's dead in less than a second. If I know it takes one shot, bam it's dead and now I can hold onto the second shot for a quick shot into some low enemy or the second gunner nearby. Just because it's initially confusing doesn't mean it is inherently flawed.

 

 

Also, that initial response to the person comparing charge triggers is in the right. If you have trouble saving the second shot on the tigris because of hand issues, which also typically lasts less than a second, and yet you don't have issues with charge weapons (which as you said can charge in less than a second and require a release to fire a shot much like the tigris) then that player is not arguing because it's a flawed trigger but simply because they don't like it.

Edited September 16, 2015 by theammostore

[Bobtm]

I completely disagree with you there since you're attempting to compare Charge weapons' date='Who have a spool up time of less than a second with a single mod (Excluding opticor who has around 1.5 with 2 mods). to something that requires you to hold a shot for a moment or use a cheap trick to make use of. We're talking about how the firing mechanism is impractical and could use tweaking.[/quote']

What about Duplex-Auto is impractical? It's a less clunky mechanic than tying each barrel to a different button press without argument. The comparison I made is basically straight across since you don't need to do anything physically unique to utilize the Tigris, or in other words pointing out the soundness of its mechanics. Since the Tigris' reload speed is lower than 2 seconds, a player never has any reason to hold a shot for more than a single second, and even holding it for that long can be pretty silly.

Using Duplex-Auto is unquestionally faster than trying to move one of your fingers from either LMB or RMB to then press middle mouse (or whatever you have Alt-fire bound to) since the lowest possible time it takes to physically move a finger across one button to another is noticably longer than the lowest possible time it takes to just immediately click and release with one finger, should you want both shots. Delaying the second shot is also mechanically simple, as it takes no more effort nor ability to do this than it does to make use of any of the charge weapons I noted before. One of these (the Dread) was literally crowned "King of Weapons" so it's obvious that holding the fire button isn't something folks have issue with.

If one wanted to actually match (or very marginally surpass) Tigris' 2-shot speed with a two-button mechanic they'd have to have one of their fingers pre-moved over to the alt-fire button, and then basically press both buttons simultaneously. Doing this while aim gliding for example, sounds both clunky and difficult compared to the ease of a single-button mechanic. Of course going the sequential route too would require two different buttons to do the same job that one does now, and does quite easily. This is without a doubt more work to attain the same functionality, as it requires more physical input from twice as many appendages to get the desired results.

_______________________

It's just like what theammostore pointed out above. Those who don't like the Tigris' firing mechanic are more than allowed to do so. However the problem is that these people cannot simply accept the simple fact that they do not like the Tigris' firing mechanic and then proceed to not utilize the gun. They instead want to use it despite the fact that there are shotguns with less interesting mechanics of appropriate power, like the Hek.

So, in order to justify their push for the Tigris' mechanics being butchered they must in turn try and make the mechanic look bad, by providing a number of obscure arguments (hand strain, claiming other mechanics are objectively better, etc) when the reality is that their argument is nothing other than personal bias. Because having the Tigris changed "because I said so" very clearly doesn't make for a strong stance, but that is the only stance those who want it changed really have.

[LABAL]

And i don't understand what you mean by "mouse cord gets worn out in time no matter what" (you know... not english and stuff)

I can't help but notice that you're picking at my deliberately inconsistent sentence structure. Bye now.

[Trichouette]

I can't help but notice that you're picking at my deliberately inconsistent sentence structure. Bye now.

Wow excuse me ? I'm not english and therefore don't understand your sentence, i didn't even know there is a problem with your sentence. Could people in this thread stop complaining about me already ? if you have a problem send a PM instead of openly complaining. Especially when i didn't mean anything bad.

[SlightVect]

What about Duplex-Auto is impractical? It's a less clunky mechanic than tying each barrel to a different button press without argument. The comparison I made is basically straight across since you don't need to do anything physically unique to utilize the Tigris, or in other words pointing out the soundness of its mechanics. Since the Tigris' reload speed is lower than 2 seconds, a player never has any reason to hold a shot for more than a single second, and even holding it for that long can be pretty silly.

Using Duplex-Auto is unquestionally faster than trying to move one of your fingers from either LMB or RMB to then press middle mouse (or whatever you have Alt-fire bound to) since the lowest possible time it takes to physically move a finger across one button to another is noticably longer than the lowest possible time it takes to just immediately click and release with one finger, should you want both shots. Delaying the second shot is also mechanically simple, as it takes no more effort nor ability to do this than it does to make use of any of the charge weapons I noted before. One of these (the Dread) was literally crowned "King of Weapons" so it's obvious that holding the fire button isn't something folks have issue with.

If one wanted to actually match (or very marginally surpass) Tigris' 2-shot speed with a two-button mechanic they'd have to have one of their fingers pre-moved over to the alt-fire button, and then basically press both buttons simultaneously. Doing this while aim gliding for example, sounds both clunky and difficult compared to the ease of a single-button mechanic. Of course going the sequential route too would require two different buttons to do the same job that one does now, and does quite easily. This is without a doubt more work to attain the same functionality, as it requires more physical input from twice as many appendages to get the desired results.

_______________________

It's just like what theammostore pointed out above. Those who don't like the Tigris' firing mechanic are more than allowed to do so. However the problem is that these people cannot simply accept the simple fact that they do not like the Tigris' firing mechanic and then proceed to not utilize the gun. They instead want to use it despite the fact that there are shotguns with less interesting mechanics of appropriate power, like the Hek.

So, in order to justify their push for the Tigris' mechanics being butchered they must in turn try and make the mechanic look bad, by providing a number of obscure arguments (hand strain, claiming other mechanics are objectively better, etc) when the reality is that their argument is nothing other than personal bias. Because having the Tigris changed "because I said so" very clearly doesn't make for a strong stance, but that is the only stance those who want it changed really have.

 

"What about duplex autos is so impractical?" It could be the fact that the mechanic itself is unpolished,unpopular and useless to even be on the gun (Or any gun) in the first place in it's current state.

 

See the grand debacle over making the Sybaris Duplex auto (Although it'd have no effect on the weapon other than letting people fire off one shot). A vast majority of the public despise the trigger without any real founding other than "It's awkward".

My personal gripe with the Trigger stems from the simple confusion of "Why does holding the fire button down fire one shot instead of two? Shouldn't it be reversed or altered so we have the option to dislodging two shots at once for bigger targets while being allowed to single shot smaller targets?"

 

I don't want the trigger removed personally, I think it's a neat mechanic I just believe it's utterly unrefined and clunky for no reason other than the Devs wanting to keep a weapon identity. It's just uncomfortable in its current state which can easily be changed.  I digress. Moving on. 

"The binding of each barrel to a mouse button." No, absolutely not! That takes us all back to ADS 1.0 where weapons with special abilities couldn't be zoomed in. We absolutely do not need to go down that route. I merely supposed that we bind the ability to properly Boomstick someone's head off to the alt fire (Default Middle mouse button for PC) button which would cause the two shots to be dislodged at once while left clicking would fire off one round. Thus allowing the unique Duplex Trigger to be simplified and less clunky. ( Please note, I use the term 'Boom stick' since the Tigris family is the only weapon group currently with that trigger system.)

As I've said above in my opening post "The Duplex Auto trigger isn't going anywhere as DE has stated, let's try to provide constructive feedback to hopefully improve something that most of the community dislikes." 

While being someone who watched Tactical potatoes "Nerf mentality" video I don't want to be one of those forum posters who dislike something and want it changed for the sole reason of "I don't like it."  I want things changed because they're either unrefined or flat out illogical. I'm rambling, apologies. Back to the point.

"They'd have to have one of their fingers on the middle mouse button" Not to come off as rude but the Penta does implore that exact mechanic.Most players would already be used to it.

Once again, a reminder. I'm not talking about the Tigris, I'm talking about the Firing mechanism. The "Hold down for one shot, tap for two" Mechanic. 

[ViolettaFoxx]

I have to agree with you, I think it's a little akward to have to hold your mousebutton down until you lock into the next target BUT we all know that after you fire the first shell, you can press R while holding the LMB and it reloads w/o firing the second shell, and you can let go of the LMB?

 

Anyways, it would make the weapon just that little bit easier to use while still retaining its original idea. Most double-barrelled shotguns have a trigger system set up to where you pull it back into one notch to fire one barrel, and then pull it further into another notch to fire the second. And when hunting large flocks of bird-game you can fire both barrells nearly instantly by pulling hard through both notches. Some also have double triggers where you can pull a single one for a single barrel, or both for both instantly.

 

So yes, please give this little QoL update to the Duplex Auto because it just logically makes more sense, and makes it less cumbersome to handle.

[SlightVect]

1. Those weapons are semi-auto. THe person I quoted basically wanted the Tigris to be full auto. Hold the button for both shots. If they want it to have the same possible rate of fire that we have now with duplex auto for both shots, they would have to tap really really fast, twice as fast as normal, to not waste that second shot.

 

2. In the mean time? Yes. Adapt to the circumstances and do what you can to get your ease of use out of it. If holding the button hurts, break the code so you don't have to until such a fix comes in, if one ever does. And if it doesn't then just deal with it.

 

3 and 4. Once more we need to look at who I quoted for context. Making the Tigris semi-auto would just make it a Hek with half of a clipsize and some damage changes. With the talk I see about how people are upset with DE at just making reskins of weapons mechanically, I doubt this would be any kind of actual solution. Also, The tigris can often get a one shot kill, so the person stating that players often waste ammo on a weapon that gets 10 ammo per pickup and often gets one shot kills would mean that the user would have to get exponentially unlucky with ammo drops in order to run out of ammo. Therefore, wasting a single shot is entirely pointless to the discussion.

 

and to address the op directly, it's not a bad mechanic and it doesn't need revision or improvement. It works as it is as it gives players a fairly intuitive method at controlling their shots and DPS and making sure each shot counts. If I know it takes two shots to kill this gunner, it's dead in less than a second. If I know it takes one shot, bam it's dead and now I can hold onto the second shot for a quick shot into some low enemy or the second gunner nearby. Just because it's initially confusing doesn't mean it is inherently flawed.

 

 

Also, that initial response to the person comparing charge triggers is in the right. If you have trouble saving the second shot on the tigris because of hand issues, which also typically lasts less than a second, and yet you don't have issues with charge weapons (which as you said can charge in less than a second and require a release to fire a shot much like the tigris) then that player is not arguing because it's a flawed trigger but simply because they don't like it.

My apologies, I completely misunderstood your post within my zeal and arrogance. 

1.I sincerely don't see how that's a problem unless the person in question has no experience with a Semi-Auto trigger. I'm not being snarky, I'm being honest. 

 

2.A gamer should never have to come up with a make shift fix in a video game to address a problem unless it's a personal one. We should, in no way, be forced to use cheap tricks. From a logical stand point, you can surely understand my angle. 

 

3.I disagree. My aim with this post is QoL and Ease of use. Not destroying the trigger system ( I personally find it intuitive but with vast room for improvement.) A full auto double barrel doesn't exactly make sense however a middle mouse for both barrels and a single click for one barrel when you can double tap to fire both alternatively? That sounds a lot more simple and a lot less cumbersome, does it not?

 

I'll conclude to this response with simply saying this. "There's no excuse for a complex mechanism in a really simple game." 

[Thumper3]

I can't help but notice that you're picking at my deliberately inconsistent sentence structure. Bye now.

Don't deliberately write in a way to confuse people?

English is my first language and I STILL have no idea what the heck you are talking about. Wear out your mouse cord? Gibberish, and gibberish you refuse to account for or correct? Goodbye yourself.

OT

Duplex trigger is interesting, it's different and is likely an invention to balance the massive damage potential. Which is why many are assuming giving it a normal trigger would reduce damage.

I don't necessarily think it needs a change, been thinking about it with all the threads and built one a while ago and have been using it. It's an interesting weapon with a unique mechanic.

[shadowstormr]

While a more comfortable mechanic would be nice to have, but then it'd take the character out of the gun. It's unique mechanic makes it unappealing to many players but those who get over it are rewarded with plenty corpses. hey atleast some challenge to use a gun that can eviscerate lvl 70s in 2-3 shots. 

[theammostore]

My apologies, I completely misunderstood your post within my zeal and arrogance. 

1.I sincerely don't see how that's a problem unless the person in question has no experience with a Semi-Auto trigger. I'm not being snarky, I'm being honest. 

 

2.A gamer should never have to come up with a make shift fix in a video game to address a problem unless it's a personal one. We should, in no way, be forced to use cheap tricks. From a logical stand point, you can surely understand my angle. 

 

3.I disagree. My aim with this post is QoL and Ease of use. Not destroying the trigger system ( I personally find it intuitive but with vast room for improvement.) A full auto double barrel doesn't exactly make sense however a middle mouse for both barrels and a single click for one barrel when you can double tap to fire both alternatively? That sounds a lot more simple and a lot less cumbersome, does it not?

 

I'll conclude to this response with simply saying this. "There's no excuse for a complex mechanism in a really simple game." 

1. Well here's how that suggestion would be a problem. Lets say the Tigris does become a click to shoot one and hold to shoot two. In order to have the same rapid response with a double tap that we have now, the rate of fire on the Tigris would have to be extremely high, I'd estimate somewhere around 1000rpm. if that came true, and I only wanted to shoot one shot, I would have to tap extremely quickly, faster than 1000rpm. That's what I was trying to get at. A full auto tigris (which is in essence what was presented in that post way back in the thread) would just be even worse to control unless we butcher it's ability to rapidly deal with big targets

 

2. I completely understand and I do sympathize, however the discomfort many people report from the trigger are either blown out of proportion or often times misrepresented. So while I do understand that some people do find it uncomfortable, and there may indeed come a time where the trigger is changed or taken out completely, there are workarounds for their discomfort. I'd rather not get into the 'DE is trying to please everyone/you can't please everyone' argument, so I will say (not necessarily to you but to everyone) that before you bring up that this trigger hurts your hand/finger/whatever you seriously consider if you have issues with charge weapons or beam weapons. If you have issues there as well, then you have a legitimate case, otherwise you don't.

 

3. Well, while you may not want to destroy the trigger system, taking out it's key feature of click-boom-release-boom is sort of destroying the trigger. Adding in a secondary fire would be welcome and I would be one of the first ones to praise it, but you have to admit that taking away it's rapid response time is killing the trigger in everything but the name.

 

and complex mechanisms add variety and spice to the game. Otherwise we'd only have variations of Hitscan and Projectile weapons with nothing like the Penta, Simular, Atomos, etc.

While a more comfortable mechanic would be nice to have, but then it'd take the character out of the gun. It's unique mechanic makes it unappealing to many players but those who get over it are rewarded with plenty corpses. hey atleast some challenge to use a gun that can eviscerate lvl 70s in 2-3 shots. 

This as well.

[Bobtm]

I don't want the trigger removed personally, I think it's a neat mechanic I just believe it's utterly unrefined and clunky for no reason other than the Devs wanting to keep a weapon identity. It's just uncomfortable in its current state which can easily be changed.

While that sounds all well and good, you're contradicting yourself. The trigger mechanism in and of itself isn't inherently clunky, it's just unique. Players at large tend to not like things which stray from the norm, and that's why it's not popular. Trying to paint it otherwise is just misleading.

I merely supposed that we bind the ability to properly Boomstick someone's head off to the alt fire (Default Middle mouse button for PC) button which would cause the two shots to be dislodged at once while left clicking would fire off one round. Thus allowing the unique Duplex Trigger to be simplified and less clunky.

And this here is literally the problem. In one sentence you say it's not your intent to destroy/remove the uniqueness of Duplex-Auto and instead polish it. Then right here you literally suggest entirely removing Duplex-Auto in favor of having a gun which is Semi-Auto with an Alt-fire functionality. You are absolutely trying to have Duplex-Auto removed in its entirety.

Instead of removing what is a unique gun, why not just suggest the addition of a new one? This solution allows folks who enjoy the snappy firing mechanic of the Tigris to continue utilizing it, while giving those who just want a double-barreled Hek a double-barreled Hek.

I'll conclude to this response with simply saying this. "There's no excuse for a complex mechanism in a really simple game."

There's also no reason for every single item in the game to cater to mediocrity/sameness. Unique mechanics on a few items are what really keep games interesting for some players. This is furthered by the fact that these unique items aren't required to be utilized.

If your quote above were true then we would also have to change the Opticor, Castanas, and Simulor, among many others, because each of them acts in an obscure manner rather than a direct one. Having unique weapons isn't a bad thing when there are already a wealth of "basic" weapons which have top-tier equivalents. If folks don't like Duplex-Auto the solution is to simply use a weapon that isn't Duplex-Auto instead of trying to have it removed. If there weren't top-tier guns with simple mechanics you'd have a point (even more I'd be on your side) but that simply isn't the case.

Players who like things that are more intriguing in nature tend to really enjoy oddball weapon mechanics. So long as the strange gear items don't make up the majority or outclass everything else then their existence is fully justified. And in Warframe, these obscure weapons aren't even close to the norm nor do they vastly outclass other more standard options.

[AutoPhox]

I'm just going to get straight to the point. "Duplex Triggers are garbage and a failed mechanic." Allow me to show the main reason why.

 

They're uncomfortable as hell. Instead of firing one shell then whippin' the ol' boomstick around to blow someone's dome off, you fire both at once OR You're forced to do the uncomfortable gimmick of holding down the mouse until you find another victim.  

 

 Now here's a solution: Make the standard firing button fire one barrel while middle clicking fires both.  Innovative, truly. 

 

 

Consider your mind blown.

http://i.imgur.com/caVnDWv.gif

 

 

Edit:Guys, stay on topic. We're talking about the Firing Mechanism. Not Ammo Economy, Damage or anything of the sort. There's a reason why a majority of people don't like the Duplex Auto, let's try to find a way to FIX the blasted thing and make it more acceptable. DE has said they're not removing it, so let's propose proper fixes in response. 

Revision ideas from Thread

 

 

 

I use a custom keyboard setting that has melee as middle click, so Id have to re-fudge my settings to get rid of another alt-fire button. I actually really enjoy the press to fire and release to fire mechanic. I use alt-fire for the quanta vandel as mouse scroll. perhaps that could work for duplex too. so LMB for single fire, or scroll for double shot. Again my keyboard config is really goofy. i dont even recall what scroll does by default. also, i dont know how that would translate for controllers.

[ValkyrWF]

Well...you could just not use the Tigris and live without complaint because there is only the Tigris that uses this system so far.

 

Also, maybe you should hold the mouse button down?  Hmm?  Its not like its gonna kill you if you hold your mouse click down for just a couple of seconds.  Is your index finger broken or something?

 

To be honest, the Tigris is something I can put up with no problem.  I don't see why people hate the trigger system and I still don't see why people complain that they wasted 6 forma on their Tigris after the alt-fire was removed.  Live with the damn trigger system, and quit being spoiled brats.

 

Besides, if you make the trigger the same as all shotguns, it removes the unique trait.  If you change the way it fires to regular clicks being one of the barrels while the alt-fire is both barrels, it will impede the amount of pellets you land on someone because of the ridiculous recoil of the Tigris.

 

Also, with added recoil, pellet spread is affected even more.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Mohandar881

[theammostore]

Well...you could just not use the Tigris and live without complaint because there is only the Tigris that uses this system so far.

 

Also, maybe you should hold the mouse button down?  Hmm?  Its not like its gonna kill you if you hold your mouse click down for just a couple of seconds.  Is your index finger broken or something?

 

To be honest, the Tigris is something I can put up with no problem.  I don't see why people hate the trigger system and I still don't see why people complain that they wasted 6 forma on their Tigris after the alt-fire was removed.  Live with the damn trigger system, and quit being spoiled brats.

That first line isn't very fair, as telling someone 'just don't use it' isn't a good response to feedback. "Mesa is boring for teamplay." "Well then just don't play with Mesa." That doesn't change that lots of people find Mesa boring for teamplay.

 

Some people do legitimately have issues with holding down the mouse button, sometimes their fingers are broken. The important thing to know is if they hate only the tigris because their finger is broken or do they hate any charge-like weapon because their finger was broken and they wish for an alternative.

 

Finally, just because you can live with it doesn't mean everybody can. Plenty of people want to love the Tigris, the trigger system is just holding them back. Having an alternative to this wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, agreed?

[TenguBlade]

Tigris needs some sort of counterbalance to its ridiculous damage.  While a rethink of the mechanic isn't totally out of the question (I play on a desensitized mouse and a trackpad that can't be disabled), it's pretty low on the priority list for DE.

 

And before anyone says it, no, my word isn't an open support of rebuffing the Vulklok to its original damage.

Edited September 18, 2015 by TenguBlade

[ValkyrWF]

That first line isn't very fair, as telling someone 'just don't use it' isn't a good response to feedback. "Mesa is boring for teamplay." "Well then just don't play with Mesa." That doesn't change that lots of people find Mesa boring for teamplay.

 

Some people do legitimately have issues with holding down the mouse button, sometimes their fingers are broken. The important thing to know is if they hate only the tigris because their finger is broken or do they hate any charge-like weapon because their finger was broken and they wish for an alternative.

 

Finally, just because you can live with it doesn't mean everybody can. Plenty of people want to love the Tigris, the trigger system is just holding them back. Having an alternative to this wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, agreed?

Ok, but Mesa is Mesa and when Mutalist Alad V becomes an open node, she is gonna get a nerf, like Hydroid.  That nerf is probably gonna add some teamplay mechanics.

 

Yes I am aware that some people have problems with holding down a mouse button or have problems with their fingers themselves.  We all have problems with something, like I can't use the Kulstar without killing myself.  However, they should know to not use this weapon if they have a physical problem that is not controllable by the game.

 

I know plenty of people love the Tigris.  However, about a week ago my friend and I spend half of my day shutting people up on the 17.2 Update Page who were moaning about all the wasted forma and potatos they used on their Tigris.

 

An example:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/514266-update-172/page-17#entry5746586

[Thelonious]

@OP: You can write a rather simple macro for that mate.