Vacuum Hate (I Just Don't Get It)

[EetNotErn]

Casuals want everything to function the same. Casuals don't want to use carrier because "this other thing looks cooler," but at the same time, they can't stand someone else doing better than them because the other person used optimized gear (like Carrier Prime).

 

Oh wow. I don't eye roll but If I did my eyes would have spun right out of my skull from reading your comment. A 3rd grader couldn't have said something more juvenile.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Oh wow. I don't eye roll but If I did my eyes would have spun right out of my skull from reading your comment. A 3rd grader couldn't have said something more juvenile.

Ad hominem fallacy.  Do you have something productive to add instead of random insults?

[Kaisty]

Casuals want everything to function the same. Casuals don't want to use carrier because "this other thing looks cooler," but at the same time, they can't stand someone else doing better than them because the other person used optimized gear (like Carrier Prime).

Speaking from experience, as a casual, I don't want nor need everything to function the same. What I need is for everything to function at optimal levels so I can enjoy the most of a game for the small amount of time I can play it. Carrier makes that easier for certain missions, TO A POINT, because I can run and gun instead of run and gun then gather loot (or gather loot while in the fight). Like I said before, Carrier can be a detriment depending on the situation (E.G. accidentally collecting life supports while at 100% or close to it, using full rounds of ammo to replace ONE round at a time in slow load weapons like the strum wraith) but when used in certain situations, it keeps the pace fast because the player can focus on fighting and other skills/tactics.

[nothinginsight]

The reason I use carrier over anything else is because :

 

1. Carrier prime has the highest hp of any sentinel, rivaling kubrows with cheaper mods.

2. Its ability is the only one of any sentinel to be 100 percent reliable and instant, Helios takes a few secondss to scan 1 enemy and you're holding fire waiting for it to finsih scanning, I have no clue how Shade's ability is triggered, sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesnt.

3. Damage based sentinels are useless, they've been balanced to be support weapons, not meant to be dependable, ie Diriga, Dethcube, and their AI does not prioritize enemis in any way.

4. Kubrows are not only expensive, but unreliable regardless of their stats, they'll quite often fall off the map and will not respawn untill you leave the area, forcing you to move away from defense points for them to spawn next to you, so they can run away again and die to something you're trying to avoid, like Skyrim horses, they have no sense of survival and obey no one. It is the first time i see a "companion animal" that the owner has no capability of commanding or calling.

Edited October 7, 2015 by nothinginsight

[(XBOX)Skode]

Vacuum is pure pro lazy QoL improving, its fine - i just hate the bs patter that its "mandatory". In fact i like the Chesa... less efficient at same job offering more in disarm to me than the im too lazy to walk 5 steps carrier but at end of the day NO companion is *mandatory" and DE made carrier prime instead of tweaking as vacuum = popular = prime access/plat sales. Vacuum is here to stay, people need to get over it.

 

Still a buff to some other companion sets would be nice as vacuum is good, diriga CC awesome but why use say Djinn? (talking it not weapon) or non prime Wyrm (which at least appeals with tankier base stats unlike original).

[X5934-078FR1]

Whenever I have to focus on picking up stuff, I feel like Sonic the Hedgehog or Mario.. and it just breaks the game immersion for me.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Speaking from experience, as a casual, I don't want nor need everything to function the same. What I need is for everything to function at optimal levels so I can enjoy the most of a game for the small amount of time I can play it. Carrier makes that easier for certain missions, TO A POINT, because I can run and gun instead of run and gun then gather loot (or gather loot while in the fight). Like I said before, Carrier can be a detriment depending on the situation (E.G. accidentally collecting life supports while at 100% or close to it, using full rounds of ammo to replace ONE round at a time in slow load weapons like the strum wraith) but when used in certain situations, it keeps the pace fast because the player can focus on fighting and other skills/tactics.

That's what I am talking about. Casuals (in general) want everything to be optimal at everything. They don't want anything to better than something else, even at specific tasks. 

 

Choosing to use Wyrm Prime because he is the sexiest sentinel in the game is perfectly fine if that's what you want to do; a core player doing that would do it while accepting the trade off effectiveness as a fair trade off for looking cool.  A casual wanting to use WP, on the other hand, would be constantly complaining that Wyrm P can't vacuum up loot like Carrier does. The casual would be upset that they can't randomly select any item in the game based on looks alone, then have it function on the same level as the top tier items in every situation.

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

Do you really believe that someone would give Vacuum to every companion and nothing back in return?.. Come on dude. If he had the ability to store all the ammo you pick while your weapons are full, that would be quite unique, or even if he could convert ammo you don't use to the type of weapon you currently use, that would be unique too.

 

Really it's not difficult to give Vacuum to every companion and to give him something unique, like not at all.

 

And watch a hundred different people complain about carrier being able to carry excess items. Being a literal floating "everything" pad depending on how they went about it. 

 

I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't find Vacuum essential to collecting loot. I can confidentially say this because over the past two days, I've:

1) I've leveled Equinox to level 30 without using Carrier (or any Companion, for that matter) and collected significant amount of loot and credits

2) I've leveled Syonoid Simulor to level 30 without using a Companion and " " " " " " "

3) " " Telos Boltor " " " " " " " " " " " " " "

4) " " Snipetron " " " " " " " " " " " " " "

5) I've leveled a second Nekros to level 30 (simply because Polarity clashed for a build I wanna test out) without the use of a companion

6) I've done Void Sabotages and Mobile Defenses and I didn't feel like I missed out on many Control Modules. Found like 5 Argon Crystals.

Vacuum is NOT ESSENTIAL to Warframe. It's simply laziness, and everyone's just become dependent on Carrier's Vacuum,

 

Congrats? last time i checked lvling and loots were a different thing. Because you lvled something means diddly when it comes to loot. You have essentially posted and used 6 reasons that mean nothing. Vacuum is not essential that is true but laziness? LoL?! so an extra few clicks to pick up loot make everyone else who doesn't use carrier non lazy then eh? alright since we are obviously reaching let me do it as well! we are all lazy cause every time we come in to play this game after a long days work/school instead of going out to playing or working out.

 

I only use Carrier if I'm farming neurodes or neurosensors.

Other than that, this game is NOT about collecting loot. At a certain point, a player will have more than enough of anything that can possibly drop. A vet player is most likely playing to level items or for reward at mission end screen.

Hp and energy is useful, but when they are droping plentifully, its because im mowing down mobs anyway. I rarely run out of ammo, and if im doing an extra long survival or defense- mobs dont die fast enough for Carrier to make that big of a difference, my Huras is more useful. When the game geta hard enough, I rely on restores more than random drops.

Carrier is a choice. It is not necessary. There are much better and practical options for vet players.

 

Alright so FarmFrame isn't about loots. Farming for mods (loot), cores (loot), rare components (loots), weapons, frames parts, etc (loots)....alrighty then. You are correct, at a certain point people will have more then enough of something, at times! Not always. Plenty of people have stocked up on things, thought they were all good and boom! having nothing left over and having to do it all over again. Plus to get to that point you need to do a pretty good amount of runs which needs! you guessed it! Loots!!! You need dropped loots to build the reward loots so you can get more powerful loots to use to kill things for other loots which you need more droppable loot to create OR sell/trade said loot for other loot or plat so you can more then likely buy other? you guessed it! LOOT!

 

 

I swear I love when these topics come up. It's always hilarious to watch people knob rub how much they don't need something, while its equally as funny watching people claim something is "needed". Now not saying this is aimed at you fine folk but its totally aimed at a lot of you fine folk~

[(PSN)Zeylon]

The reason I use carrier over anything else is because :

 

1. Carrier prime has the highest hp of any sentinel, rivaling kubrows with cheaper mods.

2. Its ability is the only one of any sentinel to be 100 percent reliable and instant, Helios takes a few secondss to scan 1 enemy and you're holding fire waiting for it to finsih scanning, I have no clue how Shade's ability is triggered, sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesnt.

3. Damage based sentinels are useless, they've been balanced to be support weapons, not meant to be dependable, ie Diriga, Dethcube, and their AI does not prioritize enemis in any way.

4. Kubrows are not only expensive, but unreliable regardless of their stats, they'll quite often fall off the map and will not respawn untill you leave the area, forcing you to move away from defense points for them to spawn next to you, so they can run away again and die to something you're trying to avoid, like Skyrim horses, they have no sense of survival and obey no one. It is the first time i see a "companion animal" that the owner has no capability of commanding or calling.

 

Yup, it's 2 factor I guess.

 

It's not just that carrier has value beyond QoL (getting mods/loot through walls you couldn't get otherwise, strategic, etc.), but also the relative lack of value in other options.

 

Vacuum utility is reliable.  Most other companions abilities are less so.  Gathering loot is almost always useful, but the lack of real AI means the intervention of your companions in combat is always going to be random at best (when it works at all).  Vacuum is like giving your frame another passive (much like Sanctuary, Coolant Leak, or Guardian).  

[Osharchi]

I love my Carrier even though it's not mandatory.  I held out for a long time from using any sentinels at all because I didn't think they were worth the hassle to build.  But now I definitely notice the difference whenever it's destroyed mid-mission.  And I'd probably use other sentinels if they had similar loot-focused abilities.

So rather than just give away carrier's main ability to everybody else, why not add different loot-focused abilities to the other sentinels.

I think "Looting strategy" is just as much a part of the game as damage-per-second, crowd-control, and maximizing RNG reward chances are.  Even if someone goes into a capture mission with the mindset of "I'm only going to pick up whatever is in my immediate path from point A to point B, and I'm not going to stop for anything" that's still a strategy.

Here are some possible ideas for loot-based abilities for the other sentinels:

Helios - could auto-mark rare resources for everyone, and even make it glow bright green like loot radar does for mods.  (Not sure if it should be ALL rare resources, or just 1 type of resource that you have to preset in the loadout screen.  I don't care about control modules, for example.)

Diriga - can harpoon rare resources from far away and drag it towards you.  Sniping away at loot one-by-one, rather than Carrier's AoE mass vacuum for loot.)

Shade - chance to pickpocket non-alerted enemies while still alive, for an additional loot drop chance.  (I can see this being HUUUGE, but hopefully not game-breaking.  1. Pickpocket the enemy, 2. Pilfer it to death, 3. Desecrate the body!)

Deathcube - ammo/resource mutation.... a common resource goes into the trash compactor... a different common resource spits out.  Or maybe x amount of certain resources go in, and 1 unit of an uncommon resource spits out.

??? -  Cone-shaped high-powered vacuum - Pick up loot in a FOV cone rather than a circular AoE, but at a much longer range.

??? - Ammo/Energy/Health hoarding - Someone else earlier in the thread already suggested this as a possible buff to the Carrier, if its core vacuum ability was given to all sentinels - Basically the sentinel could pick up and hoard 1 type (or maybe all 3 types) of loot when you are already maxed out, and then it would automatically give you some of its reserves when you drop down to a certain threshold.  Kind of like the auto-shield restore, but requires the sentinel to build up a reserve first.

??? - Loot transfer.  If 2+ tenno equip the same type of sentinel with this ability, then if one Tenno picks up an item, it's automatically treated as if all those Tenno already picked it up as well.  Other Tenno with different sentinels equipped will still see their versions of the loot still sitting on the ground as always.

These are just ideas off the top of my head, so I'm sure others can find game-breaking holes in some, if not all of these.

For me, the Carrier's vacuum ability is my favorite of the sentinel's abilities, and I haven't really had a reason to even try any of the other sentinels yet, other than for raising MR.  But if other sentinel had loot-focused abilities too, then I'd probably want to try them all out.

In summary, just like there's currently many different ways to kill enemies in warframe, I think there can be many different ways to increase quality of life regarding loot, making the whole process more efficient, and even make it part of game strategy.  For example, a fast-paced capture mission will have a different looting strategy vs. a slower-paced stationary defense mission.

Oh, also, I think all of this is mid-to-late-game stuff.  I mean, a rank 0 Tenno still should have to walk over and pick up every single item that drops in the very beginning.  I think all the sentinels are MR locked, but I'm not sure which rank.  All I know is that I waited too long to actually build a carrier sentinel myself.  But if I had that sentinel available to me right at the very beginning, then I definitely wouldn't appreciate the difference it makes in missions.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Osharchi

[MarkDaPanda]

> Put vacuum mod on kubrow

> Kubrow vacuums from his anus

> Legit

[Dartiel]

My main reason for using carrier,

 

It could pick up mods through wall in Void.

 

Having thief's wit and looking at unpickable mods behind the wall hurts my tender heart.

One or all of them might be rare mod/core.

[climatiseur]

Yeah like I said before we should just eliminate this "loot drop mechanic" and make all resources, mods and loots having a chance to directly added into our inventory. Even innate Vacuum in all warframes is too much time for running around to get them into the vacuum range. Why not just make one more step people?

 

Everyone who supports innate vacuum should also support this idea.

[(PSN)OdinKuro]

I agree give all warframes natural vacuum it will let us use kubrows more often

I agree give all warframes natural vacuum it will let us use kubrows more often

[Torsa]

Just give Warframes a vacuum IMO. A smallish one, a bit smaller than what Carrier has now, maybe with a couple exilus mods that can expand it. It's so much more time efficient to use Carrier, and without any other options (RIP Gmag) it's usually the best choice to stay focused on combat.

 

I like that.

 

Lets just remove Vacuum from the carrier and turn him into a close combat sentinel so his stats will need to be changed somewhat then make Vacuum a exsalius mod :D

[CephalonShy]

I hate vacuum.

 

It... sucks ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[PickleMonster21]

Congrats? last time i checked lvling and loots were a different thing. Because you lvled something means diddly when it comes to loot. You have essentially posted and used 6 reasons that mean nothing. Vacuum is not essential that is true but laziness? LoL?! so an extra few clicks to pick up loot make everyone else who doesn't use carrier non lazy then eh? alright since we are obviously reaching let me do it as well! we are all lazy cause every time we come in to play this game after a long days work/school instead of going out to playing or working out.

I think you missed the point over all your arrogance. Leveling things DOES have something to do loot. Let me try and simplify it for your narrow mind.

So I bought Ash Prime Access, right? So I got the Carrier Prime. Now I've put 2 Forma on it for it to get to it's potential with the mods I have. So this thing is durable, useful and it even has my back with it's Sweeper Prime. The only Companion I use is Carrier when I'm not playing Stealth. So this should make me dependent on it, right? I should be finding collecting loot somewhat difficult as I have the mind-set that it'll just be done for me. So as I stated before. I leveled Equinox, Syonoid Simulor, Telos Boltor, Snipetron, a second Nekros, and done a few Void missions, mainly Mobile Defense and Sabotage, WITHOUT USING MY CARRIER PRIME, because I wanted to level these things faster than I would have if I had a companion equipped. Having done these, that would mean I'd need to kill, and that a fair few enemies would drop loot. So in order to collect this loot, USUALLY, I'd just be like "Yeah, whatever. Carrier Prime will get that for me". But no. I didn't have my Carrier Prime, so I had to go over there and pick it up myself, which I didn't even mind at all. It didn't feel like the integrity of the game had diminished  I didn't feel as if the flow had been broken. Especially in those Mobile Defense Void missions, where the enemy are spread out and shooting from all angles. I didn't feel as if I NEEDED a Carrier Prime to get all this loot. I simply did what I'd normally do with Carrier. I'd go looking for the loot and collect it.

It's 11:22 at night where I am. Why would I be going out to play, or working out at this time after a night shift? What do you expect me to do? Sit on my couch in the dead of night and just sit there, proactively thinking about life, and the secrets of the universe, hoping I come up with an answer? This isn't laziness xD Unless you have an idea for what I COULD be doing at this time of the night.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

How does preferring a sentinel ability over another make someone less/more "lazy" than someone else?

It's a videogame....where the hell did the word "lazy" even come from?

Never heard that term used when referring to someone PLAYING A VIDEOGAME.

Are they not moving their thumbs fast enough? Fingers getting out of shape? Whatever man, you got it.

Regardless, Carrier/Prime Master Race. Don't even care about the other sentinels (and Kubrows don't even exist imo). I keeps it casual.

[Kainosh]

I think that Vaquum should work only with SOME drops. Like credits and ammo. Maybe energy.  Rest of the stuff we should pick up ourselves.

[Monybags33]

Heard this for quite some time, giving everyone the same thing will not fix anything the way things "Should" be fixed. Sure everyone will have it and sure that means all sentinels will be able to share their "Unique" abilities with each other but this will still mean Vacuum will be used the most and we will have no diversity in Warframe with everyone defaulting to Vacuum. 

 

Currently I suggest all sentinels possess "Support" Abilities rather than anything offensive or at the very least both, the only reason Vacuum is used the most is simply because drops are a pain to pick up thus if we give other sentinels something "We hate to do, or is frustrating normally" as its support ability than we can see diversity while still allowing other sentinels their rightful place. Similar to Dajin how she can bring enemy fire in or how Helios can scan enemies, sure these abilities sound good on paper but Helios was only good for when you need to scan and never anything more. 

 

Again allow other sentinels to support us in the same fashion as Vacuum dose now just without the same cookie cutter thing and we got a game "With options" and not a cookie cutter witch im sure we can all agree on is just a stupid idea. Fix the solution do not just bandaid it.....

 

 

 

PS: On a side note Carrier has a shotgun attached to him and with sentinels not sharing the same mods if they have the same weapons as Warframes this makes poor Helios, Wrym, and other sentinels that take away our mods rather frustratingly pointless. Many people do not use shotguns iv heard and thus why also carrier gets another point in the "He's better" category than most.

[Barkano]

Easy Solution:

for the people who wants Vaccum all the time in all frames give them that.

for the opeople who dosnt want vaccum give them an option to turn it or on off

for the people who wants that vaccum only affect the mods and cred or other drops give them the posibility to choose what will vaccum suck.

 

this way every ones hapy and QOL improvment done easly.

dont be selfish, there is always a way to make everyones happy 

[Kaisty]

That's what I am talking about. Casuals (in general) want everything to be optimal at everything. They don't want anything to better than something else, even at specific tasks.

Choosing to use Wyrm Prime because he is the sexiest sentinel in the game is perfectly fine if that's what you want to do; a core player doing that would do it while accepting the trade off effectiveness as a fair trade off for looking cool. A casual wanting to use WP, on the other hand, would be constantly complaining that Wyrm P can't vacuum up loot like Carrier does. The casual would be upset that they can't randomly select any item in the game based on looks alone, then have it function on the same level as the top tier items in every situation.

It might be the fact that I may have used the wrong word for the situation, but when I said optimum, I meant that a casual would want the weapon to work as intended and not have everything be equal but with different skins. If I play a game and use a sniper rifle, I expect it to act like one or close to what one would be. I do not expect it to have AOE explosion damage like an orgis or a penta. Likewise I would not expect Shade or Djinn or any of the companions to act like each other at all. If a casual uses Dread, they don't want it to act like a Soma. You don't run Valkyr and expect to Saryn nuke the room.

The closest that I can think of for you optimum are the players who try to make it where every weapon/frame/companion is viable in every situation, and that is not the case in Warframe. If every weapon had equal stats for everything, what would be the point of using anything else past the starter gear other than skins?

How does preferring a sentinel ability over another make someone less/more "lazy" than someone else?

It's a videogame....where the hell did the word "lazy" even come from?

Never heard that term used when referring to someone PLAYING A VIDEOGAME.

Are they not moving their thumbs fast enough? Fingers getting out of shape? Whatever man, you got it.

Regardless, Carrier/Prime Master Race. Don't even care about the other sentinels (and Kubrows don't even exist imo). I keeps it casual.

Lazy is used as a way to demean players who use a certain weapon/frame/companion/skill because other players feel that anything that makes a game easier or less exciting should not be in Warframe and goes against the "fast paced universe" that we play in. Then again, some respond to being called lazy by demeaning the opposition and calling them elitists and/or tryhards because some players want this game to be nothing but skill and have an extreme difficulty spike. What both sides fail to realize is that you can't have it one way or the other without losing the other side. Make the game where casuals and low skilled vets can do everything = higher vets and players wanting a challenge will leave. Do the opposite = casuals and low skills leave the game and you will get barely a trickle of new players. Edited October 7, 2015 by Kaisty

[Xekrin]

Personally I think all sentinels should have an innate vacuum, and carrier just has a much expanded range.  The range at which is required to pick things up really is rather small.  Like a container breaks on a 2 meter tall ledge, you are eye to eye with it yet you have to jump up to get the loot.  Shrug, as for kubrows, they should all have fetch (or whatever it is) and the fetch kubrow can simply carry more (all feral kubrow can after all).  There are still reasons to use a variety of companions, but picking up loot really shouldn't be a companions sole purpose.  Well, obviously they can also attack, but that's standard to all companions.  Pickups should be a benefit of having any companion, not one specific one.

 

Just an opinion.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

In all honesty, an innate warframe pickup range of 2m will be more than enough imo to finally balance out the sentinels.

I'd still main carrier, but anything that stops me from having to zig zag through the map after a wave of enemies to pick up tiny ammo packs is cool. Hate using restores

[angias]

Now, the title may be misleading but I couldn't come up with anything better, so just deal with it.

I was watching a video like 30 seconds ago, and they said that they that "Where's our variety in companions? Kubrows are a huge letdown when you put them up against the power of the Vacuum. Why not give all companions the ability to Vacuum stuff up?"

Now, I understand where he's coming from, but... then you need to completely re-work the Carrier (Prime), as that is literally the only thing that separates it from the rest of the Sentinels. Like, if you say "Why not give all companions the ability to vacuum stuff up", then why not give all companions the ability to knock everything down within a certain radius? Why not give all companions the ability to turn you invisible when you're near an enemy? Like, come on. If you want to use something else, then get used to running over and picking stuff up.

That topic will probably make my day.

 

(Most player will hate me for that)

Taking vacuum sacrifice utilitie for..utilitie.

vacuum will help you to farm ressource but will make you more vulnerable in a big fight.

I talk about wasting the potential of healt/energy orb and amo drop.

weapon like spend 1 arrow at a time and recharge,Then vacuum take an amo pack boom 9 munition wasted same with energy you have energy siphon and have 2-3 point of energy befor being at you limit but vaccum took an energy orb you didn't saw.