Can We Have A Place To Farm Orokin Catalysts/reactors?

[Flowen231]

I laugh inside every time I see one of these topics. Because I completely agree! Some people tend to forget that at one point catalyst and reactor BPs were things that would drop for players.

 

And I know what alot of you are going to say, but it's a fact that in any proper f2p game, items that pertain to regular gameplay should be obtainable via the player's own efforts, not other's (trades included). Even if it takes forever, even if it's an abysmal chance, they heavily affect gameplay and should be farmable, like forma.

 

But, as many people have stated, they are a big part of DE's profit (And it's ironic if you think about it, people say that these appear enough randomly to the point where you don't need to buy them, but at the same time they say that DE makes alot off of them. Contradictory huh XD?) so this will likely not change.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Flowen231

[RexRgisIocus]

 

I laugh inside every time I see one of these topics. Because I completely agree! Some people tend to forget that at one point catalyst and reactor BPs were things that would drop for players.

 

And I know what alot of you are going to say, but it's a fact that in any proper f2p game, items that pertain to regular gameplay should be obtainable via the player's own efforts, not other's (trades included). Even if it takes forever, even if it's an abysmal chance, they heavily affect gameplay and should be farmable, like forma.

 

But, as many people have stated, they are a big part of DE's profit (And it's ironic if you think about it, people say that these appear enough randomly to the point where you don't need to buy them, but at the same time they say that DE makes alot off of them. Contradictory huh XD?) so this will likely not change.

 

You don't NEED to buy them because you don't NEED to keep every frame, weapon, sentinel or kubrow. Why would you potato something you wont keep? We say DE makes a nice profit from them because A LOT of us do want to keep every frame, kub, sent or weap so we spend on potatoing stuff we don't even use.

 

Half of my arsenal (all frames except Atlas, all sents and all kubs + around 100 weaps) haven't seen use for maybe 3-4 months simply because I forget I even have em. So that's wasted potatoes I didn't even needed.

 

If you are a veteran then you are swimming in potatoes/formas. If you aren't a veteran then you should be concentrating on completing the Star Chart (not many even bother; I've seen peeps needing taxis to Mercury alerts) and learning the gameplay. Maybe even use the stuff that's just mastery fodder (why would you potato something you'll just trash) to rank up.

 

Edit: If DE does add them to the drop tables expect a drop rate of .001%.

Edited October 22, 2015 by RexRgisIocus

[ACorpse]

I've never bought a potato, and I have enough built reactors ready to go to outfit every frame I haven't yet done (and I have all the frames except excal prime) and probably several sentinels as well.

 

I also have 20-something built catalysts, and have already fitted one to every prime weapon I have (and I have them all).

 

They were all from alerts, invasions, or events.

 

If you want to grind for them, then grind random prime bits. You don't even have to provide a key. Heck, you can probably get carried through void missions by randoms from recruit chat.

 

Liquidate the primes, get your potatoes from the market. Plat passes from circulation so DE is happy, people who needed the prime parts are happy, and you get your potato so presumably you should be happy too.

[Archistopheles]

The entire game can be experienced and enjoyed with 1 frame and 3 weapons, Buttaface. That's 80 plat worth of potato, which is 5 plat more than a player starts with...

 

I don't see the problem. If a player plays more than 2 weeks, they get a free potato. Once a month, they may get another free potato from an alert or invasion.

 

It's like you're showing up to a free buffet, with all the hamburgers you can eat, but then complaining that the steak and lobster is $5 extra.

[Phatose]

Wrong, you can't say that "it would have a negative effect on DE's bottom line" because neither you nor I know that. I contend that done correctly it would have a positive effect on DE's bottom line. Case in point, I spent 50-80 plat "rushing" forma production yesterday alone. If I had to wait for alerts to get forma, I would not have spent that plat, and in all likelihood if forma BPs were not in the loot table, I doubt I'd be playing this game, and would have moved on to some other game free to play or otherwise.

 

All weapons, warframes and prime items are available as drops in the game with presumably no ill effects on DE's bottom line and potatoes are no different, or if they are different do tell us -exactly- why and how they are.

 

Potatoes and inventory slots should be added to the loot tables, maybe even the syndicate rewards, raid rewards. No good reason not to.

 

Realistically, determining what effect it would have on DE's bottom line requires far more information then either of us have. 

 

However, DE themselves have far more access to the needed information then we do, or ever will.  And they've elected to keep them plat and waiting only.

 

 

Which leaves you in a quandary - you're calling a reason bad, when you really don't have enough information to determine whether it's valid or not.  We're all on the same footing here.

 

 

If their financial model is based around gating progression behind microtransactions, then that's a major problem in itself.

 

Regardless of that, the argument you provided would defend every single microtransaction imaginable, no matter how nefarious it is. That's a pretty clear indication that you're using a bad argument.

 

Microtransactions aren't innately nefarious.  Never have been. 

And incidentally, the argument actually covers not merely microtransactions, but all transactions period.  DE is a company, they're going to do what's best for their bottom line.  This isn't nefarious at all, it's exactly what a company is supposed to do.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Phatose

[Flowen231]

 

 

 

You don't NEED to buy them because you don't NEED to keep every frame, weapon, sentinel or kubrow. Why would you potato something you wont keep? We say DE makes a nice profit from them because A LOT of us do want to keep every frame, kub, sent or weap so we spend on potatoing stuff we don't even use.

 

 

Edit: If DE does add them to the drop tables expect a drop rate of .001%.

 

Thats subjective to the player.

 

And .001% would be better than 0%. No matter how you argue, it doesn't change my point that items that pertain to gameplay should be farmable by the player and should not rely on trades or be exclusive to pay-only currency. Random alerts and gifts from the lotus are not reliable means of farming since nobody is guaranteed to be able to play while they are active.

[Archistopheles]

... gifts from the lotus are not reliable means of farming since nobody is guaranteed to be able to play while they are active

 

If you can't log on for a 5 minute mission sometime between Friday and sunday, then maybe this game isn't for you... There are hundreds if not thousands of single player games that fit everyone's schedule muuuuch better than online ones.

[NinthAria]

It's very simple.  It would have a negative effect on DE's bottom line to make them farmable, and it solves a problem that has already been solved via the trade system.

 

It's a cure in search of a disease.

 

A hallmark of good persistent/loot grind games (in the vein of things like Diablo, WoW, League of Legends, or Warframe itself) is the ability for players to make progress, or at least attempt to make progress, towards something they want (or need) when they log in, through the machinations of the game itself. That's the point. For just about everything else, that works: if you want Ember, you can farm Sargas Ruk; if you want Forma, you can farm void missions; if you want resources, you can farm the appropriate planets. RNG may favor or disfavor you, but you can attempt it on your own schedule, without needing other players.

 

And I can't speak for others, but for me, less platinum that I'd have to spend on catalysts and reactors is more platinum I'd be spending on syandanas and the like.

 

 

If you are a veteran then you are swimming in potatoes/formas. If you aren't a veteran then you should be concentrating on completing the Star Chart (not many even bother; I've seen peeps needing taxis to Mercury alerts) and learning the gameplay. Maybe even use the stuff that's just mastery fodder (why would you potato something you'll just trash) to rank up.

 

I'm a veteran player (since U7) and I'm completely out of reactors and catalysts. I've leveled just about every frame, discluding Hydroid and one or two primes, and with a few exceptions I've kept all of them because I like having them in my arsenal for when the need arises, or when I just feel like playing them. Same for a lot of weapons. I'm in a comfortable enough spot that I can get my hands on platinum via trading, so usually when I need them I just bite the bullet and buy them. But I have a number of friends who are newer to the game (a few months or so), and are getting somewhat frustrated because they've found weapons they like but can't bring them to high-level content yet because they haven't found a catalyst, don't have enough spare parts to trade for platinum (and resent waiting in trade chat in the first place), and have no other way of working towards one on their own.

 

The entire game can be experienced and enjoyed with 1 frame and 3 weapons, Buttaface. That's 80 plat worth of potato, which is 5 plat more than a player starts with...

 

Some of us enjoy having more than one viable option for each loadout slot.

[Sevlessa]

Microtransactions aren't innately nefarious.  Never have been. 

And incidentally, the argument actually covers not merely microtransactions, but all transactions period.  DE is a company, they're going to do what's best for their bottom line.  This isn't nefarious at all, it's exactly what a company is supposed to do.

 

If you're going to respond to someone making a claim, please put forth the effort to make sure that the person has actually made said claim. I never claimed that microtransactions are innately nefarious. I never claimed that DE doing what's best for their bottom line is nefarious. You're beating on straw men here.

 

If you want to respond to the words that I actually wrote, though, I'm willing to have a conversation.

[Archistopheles]

Some of us enjoy having more than one viable option for each loadout slot.

 

So skip lunch on the day you get a 50% coupon, and drop $5 on the game. That's how I afford some of my computer games.

 

 

For the first few years I played, the mantra was always "Spend your plat on Slots and Taters". It still rings true today.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Archistopheles

[RexRgisIocus]

Thats subjective to the player.

 

And .001% would be better than 0%. No matter how you argue, it doesn't change my point that items that pertain to gameplay should be farmable by the player and should not rely on trades or be exclusive to pay-only currency. Random alerts and gifts from the lotus are not reliable means of farming since nobody is guaranteed to be able to play while they are active.

 

If you really think .001% is better than 0% then you don't know this community very well. If its farmable most people want to see results in at max 20 runs. If not? the crying and salt spilling starts. We don't need more of that in the forums. Also, you can run a 20 minute surv, 20 wave defense with no potatoes or forma. I've done it when power leveling mastery fodder.

 

Farming parts that you trade for plat that you then use in the market is still farming though.

[Thumper3]

Random Alerts

Invasions

Post devstream gifts

There are atleast 3 ingame ways to get them, combine that with trading (to which you need to sell only a few good parts to get 20p) and you shouldn't have issues getting them

Forgot login rewards.

That's 4. :)

As a new player, I completely disagree with this. Many parts of the game are ridiculously difficult or impossible to solo for a new player, which means they need to play in a group.

That's your point of view, not facts. And it's a really warped trail of logic. Can't play solo so have to play in groups and then have to be good enough to be in the group cause everyone else is so powerful. The assertion is that you are the only low level person in existence, and the only people to group with are high level super Tenno. I doubt very highly that the early level nodes on Earth and Mars are cluttered with mobs of high level folk and no new players.

Regardless, the fallacy is not true, solo play is perfectly doable as a new player.

When I was new (I've been playing about 3-4 months) I played almost exclusively solo. I would group up with a couple friends occasionally but generally I dislike playing with random internet folk. Playing solo at least 90% of the time I have reached MR11 (almost MR12) with the entire Starmap unlocked and half the planets with all missions completed. The only thing I really do in a group with my friends are Void runs and alerts. I didn't buy potatoes, the only ones I have were gotten from alerts and login rewards. In fact, two of them I sacrificed to Syndicates for higher rank, didn't even use for Warframes or weapons.

You don't need potatoes when you start, they are just a shortcut that make things easier but aren't required. All they do is double your mod slot numbers so you can take a lvl 10 loadout when only lvl 5. That's not a requirement for anything.

They are the one thing you can't grind for, and yet are still super easy to get by selling mods and Prime parts which you can grind for. So DE still doesn't get any money. Spend an hour in the Void (Run Sabotages and hunt those caches especially) and you will easily be able to sell a few things and get 20p for a potato.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Thumper3

[NinthAria]

So skip lunch on the day you get a 50% coupon, and drop $5 on the game. That's how I afford some of my computer games.

 

 

For the first few years I played, the mantra was always "Spend your plat on Slots and Taters". It still rings true today.

 

If the solution to acquiring a gameplay-critical item in a free-to-play model is "buy it with real money," then you've failed at creating a good free-to-play model.

 

Farming parts that you trade for plat that you then use in the market is still farming though.

 

So why not just cut out the middleman?

[Flowen231]

If you can't log on for a 5 minute mission sometime between Friday and sunday, then maybe this game isn't for you... There are hundreds if not thousands of single player games that fit everyone's schedule muuuuch better than online ones.

"Cut your plans and play the game or gtfo" is not a solution. Having to specifically play at a certain time in order to obtain an item that's crucial to progress sounds like an issue and bad game design to me.

 

If you really think .001% is better than 0% then you don't know this community very well. If its farmable most people want to see results in at max 20 runs. If not? the crying and salt spilling starts. We don't need more of that in the forums. Also, you can run a 20 minute surv, 20 wave defense with no potatoes or forma. I've done it when power leveling mastery fodder.

 

Farming parts that you trade for plat that you then use in the market is still farming though.

I know the community just fine, I know they won't like it. Point is; Farmable = good, non farmable = bad. I've played a game where end game gear literally had a drop rate of 1/12604 from an uncommon enemy, and that's just fine, because you can actively farm it. And no, farming parts to trade isn't farming for a reactor/catalyst, that's just farming for plat, not farming for a specific thing without involving a real money system. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Flowen231

[Sevlessa]

The assertion is that you are the only low level person in existence, and the only people to group with are high level super Tenno. 

 

I have no idea how you so completely misinterpreted my post. If you want to see the assertions I made, they're contained in the post you responded to. I never claimed anything remotely similar to what you've written here, and your false assertion is absolutely ridiculous. Please try to put a little more effort into honestly interpreting posts when you're reading them.

 

I'm finding it pretty difficult to have conversations here. Does anyone actually reply to the message contained in the post they're responding to, or do they simply fabricate poor arguments of their own and pin them on the other guy? That is not the way to have an honest discussion.

 

I've said everything I feel needs to be said, though, so I'll bow out know. Continue to misrepresent me as you will. You can also try to be better than that if you're up to the challenge, which would be great.

[Flowen231]

I have no idea how you so completely misinterpreted my post. If you want to see the assertions I made, they're contained in the post you responded to. I never claimed anything remotely similar to what you've written here, and your false assertion is absolutely ridiculous. Please try to put a little more effort into honestly interpreting posts when you're reading them.

 

I'm finding it pretty difficult to have conversations here. Does anyone actually reply to the message contained in the post they're responding to, or do they simply fabricate poor arguments of their own and pin them on the other guy? That is not the way to have an honest discussion.

 

I've said everything I feel needs to be said, though, so I'll bow out know. Continue to misrepresent me as you will. You can also try to be better than that if you're up to the challenge, which would be great.

welcome to the forums, where people only read the first 2 lines of your post and assume what you mean.

[Archistopheles]

then you've failed at creating a good free-to-play model

 

*looks at Warframe's popularity*

 

Now I'm not going to call you a liar, but I get the feeling that you are arguing in bad faith at this point.

 

1) Free potatoes aren't good enough

2) You won't work to sell rare goods back to players for platinum

3) $5 to bypass the previous 2 points is a failed game model

 

Did I get that right?

Edited October 22, 2015 by Archistopheles

[Flowen231]

*looks at Warframe's popularity*

 

Now I'm not going to call you a liar, but I get the feeling that you are arguing in bad faith at this point.

 

1) Free potatoes aren't good enough

2) You won't work to sell rare goods back to players for platinum

3) $5 to bypass the previous 2 points is a failed game model

 

Did I get that right?

Saying that something is good just because it's popular isn't always right. I mean, look at slavery, nazi germany, phantasy star online 2, modern anime, all things that are S#&$, yet popular/were popular at the time.

 

as for your points:

 

1) People have lives, some people can't always play. Having to be playing at a specific time in order to get an item that's crucial to gameplay is bad.

2) The point is that you shouldn't have to in a game model where everything should be farmable one way or another by the player through the player's own effort without other player or real money influence. Doesn't matter how difficult or easy it is to obtain said resources, as long as they are somehow obtainable.

3) Yeah, that's how f2p games make money, that's an option that should always be present *coughargoncrystalscough* but not mandatory.

 

I believe you are mistaken good sir.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Flowen231

[Archistopheles]

everything should be obtainable for free one way or another

 

Not if you can't just stop life to log in

 

Like I said, there are plenty of great single player games that fit your schedule if this one doesn't.

[Flowen231]

Like I said, there are plenty of great single player games that fit your schedule if this one doesn't.

And like I said, "stop making plans or gtfo" is not a solution. TY for pointing out that mistake for me btw, english isn't my first language, so I mess up my typing quite often XD.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Flowen231

[Phatose]

They are obtainable for free without other player input via the alert system already.

 

You already have a chance at a free tater every moment you play.  It's not a good chance, and the effort required to get that chance is minimal, and the roll is shared with everyone else - neither makes it not a chance.

[Archistopheles]

stop making plans or gtfo

 

It's not as cut and dry as that and you know it. You have options. You are against one of those options (Selling things) simply because you don't want to!

 

Free to play charges players 2 things: Money or Time. You either pay money to save time, or spend time to save money. If you have no money, and no time, then you aren't going to have fun here.

 

Trying to tell me how DE should run their business is not going to get you anywhere. They are successful with their current model. It's up to you to prove that your model is better than what they have right now in order to get them to change.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Archistopheles

[NinthAria]

*looks at Warframe's popularity*

 

Now I'm not going to call you a liar, but I get the feeling that you are arguing in bad faith at this point.

 

1) Free potatoes aren't good enough

2) You won't work to sell rare goods back to players for platinum

3) $5 to bypass the previous 2 points is a failed game model

 

Did I get that right?

 

No. Actually, you got all three points wrong.

 

I've said a couple of times now that I, personally, do trading. I've played long enough that most of the prime parts I come across are extras, and I'm rank 5 with three different syndicates so I have plenty of augments to sell. I also have the patience (sometimes) to sit in trade chat and find buyers. Other people are less lucky with prime parts, or want to use them to actually build stuff for themselves, or just don't like watching the chatlog scroll by in trade chat until somebody bites on your offer. And why should they? The actual game part of the game is elsewhere. My point isn't that trading is bad, or that I, personally, don't want to engage in it; the point is that we shouldn't have to to get something so essential.

 

Warframe's free-to-play model is, by and large, quite good, which is why I wanted to draw attention to this one part of it: because it's inconsistent. All the other essentials can be acquired, directly, via playing the game. Even alerts and invasions, easy as they are sometimes, give you at least that much. So why is this one thing different? DE is clearly not committed to gating essential content behind paywalls, or else we'd see more of it; if that is indeed the case, wouldn't it make sense to bring the outliers like catalysts/reactors in line with the rest of the game?

[Archistopheles]

@NinthAria - Just so you know, I do agree with some of your points, and they did get rid of paid revives because it was vestigial.

 

Is there a chance that they get rid of paid potatoes eventually? Hell yeah. They could replace that 20p part with something else, no problem.

 

Will they change it anytime soon? Probably not, and here are my reasons why (already stated)

[Flowen231]

They are obtainable for free without other player input via the alert system already.

 

You already have a chance at a free tater every moment you play.  It's not a good chance, and the effort required to get that chance is minimal, and the roll is shared with everyone else - neither makes it not a chance.

So if you want a tater, you have to just HOPE that it comes along when you play? May as well place every prime part in the market and have them all drop via alert.

 

And while what you say is true, that's still not a way to farm taters.

 

It's not as cut and dry as that and you know it. You have options. You are against one of those options (Selling things) simply because you don't want to!

 

Free to play charges players 2 things: Money or Time. You either pay money to save time, or spend time to save money. If you have no money, and no time, then you aren't going to have fun here.

 

Trying to tell me how DE should run their business is not going to get you anywhere. They are successful with their current model. It's up to you to prove that your model is better than what they have right now in order to get them to change.

Yes it is. You shouldn't have to sell things just to obtain something. Whether I want to or not is irrelevant, in an ideal f2p, it should be farmable.

 

Reactor and catalyst BPs don't require time to obtain, they require luck. If you could farm them, you could put all of your time into doing so, or have the option to just buy them. Right now, buying them through your (or someone else's) plat is the only reliable means of getting these.

 

And I haven't been talking about successful or not. I've been talking about what would make this a more ethical business model. If there was a .01% drop chance on these BPs, no matter how low that is, people could farm them, AND they would still have the option of buying them. There's literally no reason to sell unreliably obtainable power other than greed.

@NinthAria - Just so you know, I do agree with some of your points, and they did get rid of paid revives because it was vestigial.

 

Is there a chance that they get rid of paid potatoes eventually? Hell yeah. They could replace that 20p part with something else, no problem.

 

Will they change it anytime soon? Probably not, and here are my reasons why (already stated)

Actually, I don't think that they should get rid of the payed taters either, I just think there should be a way (slim chance) to farm them. And I do agree that it's a change that probably won't happen soon if at all.