Guardsman Synthesis Entry Findings

[Tostov]

While it's a long shot, Vay may also be linked to the idea of revolution or change of power. I mean, it's grineer we're talking about. I mean, it doesn't really make sense for Vay Hek, unless he was being dramatic when naming himself (or something?). But My guess would be Vay-kor would be roughly equivalent to "the freedom corps", and Vaytok might be "Taker of Freedom" (as in, taking your own freedom for yourself). That being said, that's based of pretty questionable evidence.

The sudden uprising by the grineer seems like it was arranged by a third party though, or instilled in them somehow. That being said, as Vaytok is (probably) the same Grineer from the Evisorator article, I guess it might not be the case. In which instance, Vaytok is really bad-!, if somewhat brutal. I mean, he may have just realised that the Orokin had been shattered by the state of panic in the tower he was working in. 

That being said, if the twin queens were responsible for the uprising, I imagine it would've been brought about by careful manipulation of those overseeing the grineer cloning, allowing more intellegent individuals to slip through without being terminated or removed from the 'pool'.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Tostov

[Morec0]

While it's a long shot, Vay may also be linked to the idea of revolution or change of power. I mean, it's grineer we're talking about. I mean, it doesn't really make sense for Vay Hek, unless he was being dramatic when naming himself (or something?). But My guess would be Vay-kor would be roughly equivalent to "the freedom corps", and Vaytok might be "Taker of Freedom" (as in, taking your own freedom for yourself). That being said, that's based of pretty questionable evidence.

The sudden uprising by the grineer seems like it was arranged by a third party though, or instilled in them somehow. That being said, as Vaytok is the same Grineer from the Evisorator article, I guess it might not be the case. In which instance, Vaytok is really bad-!, if somewhat brutal.

 

That's what I was thinking, and it might be more sound that you think. For the Grineer Empire I'd imagine Veytok would be a symbol of the start of their existence and their rule of Origin, while for Steel Meridian he'd be a symbol of standing up to and fighting against oppressive regimes - even if those regimes are the very reason you're alive. Explains why the Steel Meridian weapons have Vay- as their prefix. The translations ARE questionable, though, but I like them for the most part.

 

And yeah, I think the intention IS that Veytok's the same Grineer from the Eviscerator.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

This is Brave New World is a novel written by Aldous Huxley. Awesome.

[Morec0]

This is Brave New World is a novel written by Aldous Huxley. Awesome.

 

*looks up Brave New World*

 

Well... I'll be damned...

[Tostov]

This is Brave New World is a novel written by Aldous Huxley. Awesome.

Yeah, realised a bit earlier today when I was grinding that BNW was what Orokin society reminded me most of, after reading some of the content in this thread (mostly about the now clearly defined caste system). I mean, it's a bit less "Utopia/distopia"-ish, but with the advent of "Orokin Era Grineer", they seem a lot more simmilar, with very strongly defined caste roles from birth. It's curious as to whether there were non-caste citizens of the Empire though. And there's the Archmedian, which seems to be an earned title, I think.

[Morec0]

Yeah, realised a bit earlier today when I was grinding that BNW was what Orokin society reminded me most of, after reading some of the content in this thread (mostly about the now clearly defined caste system). I mean, it's a bit less "Utopia/distopia"-ish, but with the advent of "Orokin Era Grineer", they seem a lot more simmilar, with very strongly defined caste roles from birth. It's curious as to whether there were non-caste citizens of the Empire though. And there's the Archmedian, which seems to be an earned title, I think.

 

Archimedian may have been an earned title that Ballas granted to the narrator at the end or it may have been that corpus rank. It's kinda hard to tell how it was being referred with in the thing... Actually, Ballas refers to the narrator (Perintol) as an Archimedian even before the trial is complete, so it being another group within the Orokin caste seems like that was most likely the case.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Morec0

[Yrveth]

...

 

I think there's not enough information to be "safe" to say any of this is true (or not true). There's simply not enough information. For example, "are you saying your Executorial Frigate has no Sectarus class or Executor? How are you piloting?" + "A sample of your genetic code is all I need for full access to the Executorial." could be fuel for so many questions and theories. "How are you piloting without either of these high ranking classes" perhaps means he is piloting manually, rather than relying on the ship's Cephalon which won't listen to him? Or he had a sample of either a Sectarus or an Executor and it decayed over time? Or he had kidnapped one but they died in an unfortunate turn of events?

 

To me, it doesn't sound like that much time has passed since the Eviscerator entry - unless Bilsa is lying, it's only enough time for her robes to get really dirty. Of course the subject of Orokin clothing durability is open to speculation :) Though, at any rate, imagine you think you are speaking with an adult on the internet, then you meet them face to face and they seem to be in their teens, so you wonder, "wait, is this guy even fifteen?!" There's really not enough context to guess where Enginus rank, in that synthesis entry alone. She may be wondering if he's even of the lowest rank, but she may also be wondering if he's even of a random medium-high rank, considering she initially assumed, or was lead to believe that, he is of very high station (see opening narration).

 

And it would make more sense if Alarez had a scan of someone lower in ranking than a Sectarus, rather than higher. It's weird to need a Sectarus scan if he already had an Executor scan, or that Executor scan would be insufficient to give full control of the vessel. Though, if anything, it's interesting how supposedly none of the Executorial systems are restricted to the Sectarus, all things considered.

[Sitchrea]

Could Bilsa be one of the Twin Queens? 

[EmptyDevil]

Could Bilsa be one of the Twin Queens? 

 

Nope, the Kuria poem gives info on the Twin Queens.

[Bongever]

So what has me racking my head over atm are the genetic locks. These were used by those high in the Orokin hierarchy to access certain areas or bypass lockdowns as well as to use certain technology. If they had these locks implanted into their genes, then what use did the Orokin have for Void keys?

 

Could it be that the Void Keys actually contain the bio-signature's of high-class Orokin, presently granting us access to different towers. Alarez and the Dax boarded the ship to only get Bilsa's genetic makeup with the use of a "descrambler". I think these may have been used to record a genetic makeup and then implant it into keys for access to certain Orokin areas/technology in the absence of an Orokin of the appropriate class.

 

If the Empire did fall, it would be understandable that all areas/towers of importance would undergo a lockdown to prevent theft/damage to certain Orokin tech, even to safehouse any Orokin within. If so, who made the keys we presently use, and where did they get the genetic makeup to descramble?

 

Another topic that is egging at me is Vor. His Janus key speaks to him and it grants him immortality. Could it be that whats "talking" to him is the genetic make-up of a high class Orokin? And the reason for his inability to die is because the Janus key has the genetic make-up of an Orokin so high in the hierarchy that he had some form of immortality?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Bongever

[Sitchrea]

Nope, the Kuria poem gives info on the Twin Queens.

Yes, but it never calls them by name. In fact, it alludes to the fact that the Queens are Orokin. Bilsa is an Orokin used by the Grineer, and also helps (lets?) Veytor amass an army.

 

The Twin Queens are also known to have been Grineer killing-machines, and grand warriors who eventually sided with the Grineer. With Bilsa's title, she was a high-ranking Orokin, but how high in rank we don't know. She had the ability to pilot ships and interact with Orokin tech, so that must count for something in Orokin society. 

 

After all, Bilsa wasn't exactly perturbed by the Grineer killing several Dax and an Orokin elite. She also let the Grineer onto the Executorial without telling Alarez. That doesn't sound like Bilsa was completely on the Orokin's side anymore.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Sitchrea

[Morec0]

I think there's not enough information to be "safe" to say any of this is true (or not true). There's simply not enough information. For example, "are you saying your Executorial Frigate has no Sectarus class or Executor? How are you piloting?" + "A sample of your genetic code is all I need for full access to the Executorial." could be fuel for so many questions and theories. "How are you piloting without either of these high ranking classes" perhaps means he is piloting manually, rather than relying on the ship's Cephalon which won't listen to him? Or he had a sample of either a Sectarus or an Executor and it decayed over time? Or he had kidnapped one but they died in an unfortunate turn of events?

 

To me, it doesn't sound like that much time has passed since the Eviscerator entry - unless Bilsa is lying, it's only enough time for her robes to get really dirty. Of course the subject of Orokin clothing durability is open to speculation :) Though, at any rate, imagine you think you are speaking with an adult on the internet, then you meet them face to face and they seem to be in their teens, so you wonder, "wait, is this guy even fifteen?!" There's really not enough context to guess where Enginus rank, in that synthesis entry alone. She may be wondering if he's even of the lowest rank, but she may also be wondering if he's even of a random medium-high rank, considering she initially assumed, or was lead to believe that, he is of very high station (see opening narration).

 

And it would make more sense if Alarez had a scan of someone lower in ranking than a Sectarus, rather than higher. It's weird to need a Sectarus scan if he already had an Executor scan, or that Executor scan would be insufficient to give full control of the vessel. Though, if anything, it's interesting how supposedly none of the Executorial systems are restricted to the Sectarus, all things considered.

 

1) Possibly, but the fact that Alarez ignore Bilsa when she asked about it and that Bilsa didn't even seem to consider that a possibility - like the ONLY way to pilot the ship would have been if you were an Executor - seems to heavily suggest some dark implications, if you ask me. As for the kidnapping, the fact that he didn't bother to try and kidnap Bilsa suggests there would have been no need. Scan and slaughter, keep himself as being the highest ranking person on the ship.

 

2) Her robes didn't JUST get "real dirty", though, they went from YELLOW to PURE BLACK. That's a drastic change, that sort of thing takes time. Bilsa DOES suggest that some time has passed "I've been stuck on this ship for so long I'd forgotten what an Orokin of his station sounded like, I cherished each word he spoke", but that is subjective, I'll admit, but it STILL seems like it's been QUITE a few years.

 

3) It kinda seems a little out of place to just wonder if someone's halfway up the totem pole, that's not normally what you see in situations like that.

 

4) Again, implying that simply having an Executor scan gave him access to EVERYTHING, which it clearly didn't, yet he was still able to pilot at ship that otherwise needed and executor. Yes, he could have been doing so through other means, but then that raises questions about why the Grineer needed to keep Bilsa around all this time - the Cephalon listened EXCLUSIVELY to her, but surely they could have piloted manually? Unless there's no manual pilot and you NEED the Cephalon to listen to you.

 

5) I think certain systems WERE, just as there were certain systems that only a Sectarus could access aboard it. Again, I'm seeing less of a "I'm at the top, I have everything" sort of system in this, although that kind of privilege and views are definitely present, and more of a "I'm an Executor, I have access to these systems; you're a Sectarus, you have access to these other kinds of system". Value was possibly placed on what systems they had access to, and what role they had - with the Executors being lawbringers and judges, they would have had a more lofty sort of "they keep us together" kind of view surrounding them.

 

 

Could Bilsa be one of the Twin Queens? 

 

How does this keep coming up? We've already seen the Origins of the Twin Queens in the Kuria Poem, Bilsa's history and status doesn't line up well with it.

 

 

So what has me racking my head over atm are the genetic locks. These were used by those high in the Orokin hierarchy to access certain areas or bypass lockdowns as well as to use certain technology. If they had these locks implanted into their genes, then what use did the Orokin have for Void keys?

 

Could it be that the Void Keys actually contain the bio-signature's of high-class Orokin, presently granting us access to different towers. Alarez and the Dax boarded the ship to only get Bilsa's genetic makeup with the use of a "descrambler". I think these may have been used to record a genetic makeup and then implant it into keys for access to certain Orokin areas/technology in the absence of an Orokin of the appropriate class.

 

If the Empire did fall, it would be understandable that all areas/towers of importance would undergo a lockdown to prevent theft/damage to certain Orokin tech, even to safehouse any Orokin within. If so, who made the keys we presently use, and where did they get the genetic makeup to descramble?

 

Another topic that is egging at me is Vor. His Janus key speaks to him and it grants him immortality. Could it be that whats "talking" to him is the genetic make-up of a high class Orokin? And the reason for his inability to die is because the Janus key has the genetic make-up of an Orokin so high in the hierarchy that he had some form of immortality?

 

The keys, I think, were more or less batteries, items that were used to power certain things rather than operate them. The Void key is used as a battery for the Torsion Beam Generators, and every single one is seen to have power within them - Lotus flat-out-says during Void Sabotage that the overloading key isn't the side we want to be on, so there's definite power being housed in there we're exploiting and unleashing.

 

Certain keys may have more power in them, needed to access higher-level towers and ships, sort of like how different electronics need different battery requirements.

 

As for Vor, I stand by that the Void energy contained in these key batteries simply changed him as the Void changed us - altered him into something at least VERY close to what the Tenno are.

 

The idea for a genetic program being inside the Void keys would be interest, though. Not sure we have much to go on for them being able to TALK through the keys, however, I think Vor was just being Vor when he talked about the Void "whispering" and "calling" to him.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Morec0

[EmptyDevil]

Yes, but it never calls them by name. In fact, it alludes to the fact that the Queens are Orokin. Bilsa is an Orokin used by the Grineer, and also helps (lets?) Veytor amass an army.

 

The Twin Queens are also known to have been Grineer killing-machines, and grand warriors who eventually sided with the Grineer. With Bilsa's title, she was a high-ranking Orokin, but how high in rank we don't know. She had the ability to pilot ships and interact with Orokin tech, so that must count for something in Orokin society. 

 

After all, Bilsa wasn't exactly perturbed by the Grineer killing several Dax and an Orokin elite. She also let the Grineer onto the Executorial without telling Alarez. That doesn't sound like Bilsa was completely on the Orokin's side anymore.

 

None of that points toward her being one of the Queens. There is no mention of her twin sister in the synthesis imprint.

 

You completely disregarded a lot of key lines in the poem. The Kuria poem doesn't say they sided with the Grineer, it says the Grineer sided with them because of their strength, they wanted to be like them.

[Morec0]

Yes, but it never calls them by name. In fact, it alludes to the fact that the Queens are Orokin. Bilsa is an Orokin used by the Grineer, and also helps (lets?) Veytor amass an army.

 

The Twin Queens are also known to have been Grineer killing-machines, and grand warriors who eventually sided with the Grineer. With Bilsa's title, she was a high-ranking Orokin, but how high in rank we don't know. She had the ability to pilot ships and interact with Orokin tech, so that must count for something in Orokin society. 

 

After all, Bilsa wasn't exactly perturbed by the Grineer killing several Dax and an Orokin elite. She also let the Grineer onto the Executorial without telling Alarez. That doesn't sound like Bilsa was completely on the Orokin's side anymore.

 

It flat out calls them "Twin Queens" by the end.

 

And, yes, the Twin Queens WERE Orokin, but they were both rejected and shunned - Bilsa seems to have been in good standing, in her time. Avantus calls her a child, but she seems to not SHUN or hate her in any way.

 

And there's STILL the issue that WHERE is Bilsa's twin, if she's one of the TWIN Queens? 

 

And, no, she wasn't on the Orokin's side, she was working with the Grineer - she was, by extension, Grineer. Doesn't means she was one of the Queens.

 

As well as Empty's statements. The Queens were WORSHIPED by the Griener for their unity - Bilsa doesn't have that kind of thing going on for her, not does she seem to have any unity with anyone. She hasn't had a connection to ANYONE in AGES.

 

Compared to the Twin Queens who were said to have "the same senses, same strength". And a "true understanding" of each other's soul.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Morec0

[Bongever]

The keys, I think, were more or less batteries, items that were used to power certain things rather than operate them. The Void key is used as a battery for the Torsion Beam Generators, and every single one is seen to have power within them - Lotus flat-out-says during Void Sabotage that the overloading key isn't the side we want to be on, so there's definite power being housed in there we're exploiting and unleashing.

 

Certain keys may have more power in them, needed to access higher-level towers and ships, sort of like how different electronics need different battery requirements.

 

As for Vor, I stand by that the Void energy contained in these key batteries simply changed him as the Void changed us - altered him into something at least VERY close to what the Tenno are.

 

The idea for a genetic program being inside the Void keys would be interest, though. Not sure we have much to go on for them being able to TALK through the keys, however, I think Vor was just being Vor when he talked about the Void "whispering" and "calling" to him.

I would agree that there is some amount of energy inside the Void keys. But I think theres more to them than that. It could be that all keys have similar levels of power, but it is the genetics implanted into them that grant them certain access/ purpose to Orokin Technology. The Torsion beam devices may just be a method used to make the power and genes in the key "manifest" into an Orokin of the appropriate class to use the Orokin tech/ grant access. Notice how the devices, despite doing Grineer/Corpus Sabo are not just the same but have an Orokin design to them. I think these devices dated all the way to the Orokin area and were used alongside the keys for the purpose I previously mentioned.

 

As for Vor. I think his fusion with the key also may have fused his genes with those within the key (could even have been an Orokin by the name of Janus, hence the key's name.). This key may also not just contain a genetic make-up, but memories even. The descrambler may not just record genes but everything about a person, in order to avoid the loss of any important information in case anything happens to the Orokin scanned.

It might be these memories, replaying again and again in Vors head, that's calling out to him.

 

This is all speculation of course.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Bongever

[Yrveth]

I like your speculation! Perhaps, rather than an individual, Janus was also a class of Orokin, one that had access to all of the towers (unlike, for example, lower rank Orokin who had access only to certain towers and whose keys we find during gameplay)?

 

 

@forum user Morec0, I apologize for being obstinate, we all have certain ways we read the texts and are unwilling to consider different options at times! I do find your conclusions interesting even though I don't entirely agree.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

awesome ....yes...

[Morec0]

 

@forum user Morec0, I apologize for being obstinate, we all have certain ways we read the texts and are unwilling to consider different options at times! I do find your conclusions interesting even though I don't entirely agree.

 

 

I... never meant to imply you were obstinate, I was just explaining my views and attempt to support them. Did something I say suggest otherwise?

[Cleesus]

 

Another topic that is egging at me is Vor. His Janus key speaks to him and it grants him immortality. Could it be that whats "talking" to him is the genetic make-up of a high class Orokin? And the reason for his inability to die is because the Janus key has the genetic make-up of an Orokin so high in the hierarchy that he had some form of immortality?

Im not so sure about the immortality part since if that ability was native to the orokin high class,  I highly doubt they would have died out or be trapped inside of keys. Unless Im reading what you said wrong

[UrielColtan]

Before the new quest the Infested were just something that has been around forever.

Then with the quests it now states that they have not been seen since the old war.

Which doesnt make sense with all the Infested-tech and their numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

Unlikely it's every topic.

And what "facts" have i gotten wrong?

 

You do realise that its not stated that infested had been around forever prior to the quest, and that what is noted about J3 Golem in the clip that I presented, is barely any different from Lephantis, who was also created back during the Old War, right?

 

Now, enough with making unsubstantiated claims about something being retconned, just to defend your "Evil Lotus" fanon.

Edited October 31, 2015 by UrielColtan

[FoxnEagle]

As for the theory regarding the keys

The keys must convey some kind of status information about the ship it is linked to, otherwise how would we know what to expect from the keys? I do agree with the theory that each key has a certain genetic code built into them that allows access to the ship, with the higher level ships requiring the "Executor" level DNA.

What I fail to understand is why the Orokin ships ever needed to dock with one another. THEY HAVE PORTALS!!! Why would they bother with the mundane? The only reason I can think of is the portals ONLY work when they are across the void... but then why did they never build a portal hub in the void that could connect to any ship with the click of a button? or the turn of a key?

Warframe lore is weird sometimes, and to make some things work as a game, some of the lore/realism seems to get thrown out the window (then again, we are some kind of bisexual organism that can mutate shape to fill any warframe, and hell, we can control the void with limbo, summon the dead with nekros, infinitely cast off skin with saryn, and give ourselves 99% damage reduction just by slamming the ground with trinity...)

Edited October 31, 2015 by FoxnEagle

[Bongever]

Im not so sure about the immortality part since if that ability was native to the orokin high class,  I highly doubt they would have died out or be trapped inside of keys. Unless Im reading what you said wrong

We can confirm that the Orokin Highclass had very long lives, but obviously they werent entirely immortal, since the Tenno killed them off. Now I wonder how exactly the Tenno killed them, since the standard sword and gun doesnt semm to finish off Vor. He just keeps coming at us.

 

As for the theory regarding the keys

The keys must convey some kind of status information about the ship it is linked to, otherwise how would we know what to expect from the keys? I do agree with the theory that each key has a certain genetic code built into them that allows access to the ship, with the higher level ships requiring the "Executor" level DNA.

What I fail to understand is why the Orokin ships ever needed to dock with one another. THEY HAVE PORTALS!!! Why would they bother with the mundane? The only reason I can think of is the portals ONLY work when they are across the void... but then why did they never build a portal hub in the void that could connect to any ship with the click of a button? or the turn of a key?

Well these events were happening during the fall of the Empire, it might be because of the given circumstances that the Orokin couldnt use their portals. Whatever tech needed must have gone offline, a fun idea would be that the Orokin had a Portal Hub that interconnected all their portals on the moon. The moon's dissapearance would have dissabled the hub and all effective means of transport for the Orokin, a step the Tenno may have taken to finish off the Orokin.

[Zarozian]

Im not so sure about the immortality part since if that ability was native to the orokin high class,  I highly doubt they would have died out or be trapped inside of keys. Unless Im reading what you said wrong

I reckon that his Janus Key is something special.

 

TENNO! WE'RE GOING TO GET BORED AND TAKE THAT KEY FORCEFULLY FROM HIM ONE DAY AND OPEN THE JANUS TOWER VOID WITH IT ONE DAY! >;D

 

YUIKAMI WILL NOT BE PLEASED! >;D

[Mak_Gohae]

You do realise that its not stated that infested had been around forever prior to the quest,

 

The Infested controlled several planets and all other factions use Infested parts for their technologies.

They were a normal part of system.

 

 

 

and that what is noted about J3 Golem in the clip that I presented, is barely any different from Lephantis, who was also created back during the Old War, right?

 

What does saying it was created a long time ago have to do with where the Infested were.

 

 

Now, enough with making unsubstantiated claims about something being retconned,

 

The new quest creates an easy problem to see when it come to infested Tech. 

If they were just released how the hell does everyone already have weapon that use Infested parts?

The new quest is messy with the rest of the lore.

 

 

just to defend your "Evil Lotus" fanon.

 

 

The natah quest clearly states that she is a Sentient that used us as a part of her plan.

There no fanon in any of this, she is evil.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Mak_Gohae

[Yrveth]

There no fanon in any of this, she is evil.

 

Evil how? Evil for putting an end to a horrible oppressive empire that was built upon slave labour? Or is she evil for saving the Tenno from Vor?