Remove The Dark Sectors Armistice

[Urlan]

Well I know that when I fought for clans and alliances with battlepay I never got the pay win or lose while the reason given was that the battlepay coffers were emptied too fast, would it instead work that clans could be given debt to Tenno supporter so the clan can't basically underpay by giving all their pay to the first supporters while just saying oopsies for any additional Tenno that assisted during that same conflict for the same listed pay? Having the worry of having a negative due to not paying supporters might control the rampant silliness of the last conflict engagements while it won't help the unbelieveable taxes of ICE and such, having to owe Corpus bankers or Grineer Generals for loans to pay off support might be an interesting control mechanism for forcing alliances to actually be threatened by incoming attacks or eventually be dismantled to pay off debts to NPCs and Tenno.

 

In theory, you could have either enough funds or resources to pay off Tenno or be forced to rely on Grineer, Corpus, or infested Bioweapons for relatively free rail defense with a catch that as you require the factions' support your alliance or clan has to pay the cost to the faction to receive protection during conflicts - perhaps infested could be grown or require resources paid to Mutalist Alad V or something or you lose your group's rail to the npc faction to be claimed by other Tenno doing an invasion or similar mission event.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

They came put a cap on taxes. But taxes should still exist. Also this tax hike seems to be a PC thing. I hadn't heard any clan on XBox or PS4 come close to saying they've been hit with a 99% tax.

[(PSN)Xewkeryx]

I hope the taxes come back so only XP farmers will go there

[(PSN)T_ravenis]

Honestly if the taxes were out of control that's on the warframe community to boot that clan out of ownership... I remember fighting all night to do my part in helping to kick out an alliance that put up 100% tax Sechura (it was right around when destiny came out and they put up a message like "going to play destiny, enjoy the 100% tax").

I was never part of a clan that owned a rail but I fought in many of the conflicts and I really miss the gameplay. The new PVP is fun too, but it's not the same.

[kitsu]

Sad to say but dark sector is currently DE's greatest failure. Stopped and put on the back burner until they can find a way to make it work where there isn't a monopoly by only no more than 60 participating clans. They talked about it during their Q and A panel in new york. You basically can blame all the alliances and ICE with their high tax rates for getting dark sector shut down.

Pvp that was out of control. GG pvp community, you are the reason dark sector rail conflicts have been shutdown.

Edited November 20, 2015 by kitsu

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

I've pretty much acquired almost everything in the game.. Been on a pretty long break, logging in maybe once a week to ensure the clan doesn't kick me for awhile now.

There is nothing to do. I've even mastered Conclave 2.0. I really feel like they either need to make U18 amazing as to attract back the hardcore and competitive players, or they need to deliver a solid and sound Solar Rail.

[DoomFruit]

But taxes should still exist.

Why? How do the actual players benefit from having resources and money taken away from them?

Solar rails didn't need a constant influx of money and resources to function. The only time it's needed is to repair damage. And the only damage comes from when other alliances attack.

There are 2 situations.

1 = what we have now. Rail conflicts can't happen, taxes are forced to zero, players get the full benefit from running any solar rail mission.

2 = what we had before. Rail conflicts and taxes were free for all, taxes crept up and up, players lost out on potential resources when running solar rail missions.

Explain exactly why situation 2 is better for me, the player, than situation 1.

[MagPrime]

Why? How do the actual players benefit from having resources and money taken away from them?

Solar rails didn't need a constant influx of money and resources to function. The only time it's needed is to repair damage. And the only damage comes from when other alliances attack.

There are 2 situations.

1 = what we have now. Rail conflicts can't happen, taxes are forced to zero, players get the full benefit from running any solar rail mission.

2 = what we had before. Rail conflicts and taxes were free for all, taxes crept up and up, players lost out on potential resources when running solar rail missions.

Explain exactly why situation 2 is better for me, the player, than situation 1.

I'm on the fence regarding resources being taxed, but agree 100% with a credit tax.

 

It's along the lines of road tax IRL.  The city provides good roads and keeps them clear of snow/ice/accidents/derelict vehicles, etc. and you pay a tax to help pay for that service.   Roads don't need daily maintenance, but you still pay a daily tax for when they do need that month or 6 months worth of repair work.

 

Applying that concept to the rails, you're paying the Alliance or Clan taxes to help them repair their rail after a conflict and provide battle pay.

[DoomFruit]

Applying that concept to the rails, you're paying the Alliance or Clan taxes to help them repair their rail after a conflict and provide battle pay.

And with no conflicts, there are no repairs and no need for battle pay.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ DoomFruit - Rail conflicts is one of the aspects that made this game so unique compared to a lot of other games. Being able to form alliances and fight other alliances for these nodes is something not a lot of other games have. In fact that is the sole reason why I was attracted to this game because I like games with this functionality and I guarantee you I'm not the only one. In fact when the rails went away a lot of players went away too. I know this because coming from a very large moon alliance we had to do some re-couping and I'm sure you can extrapolate that across the population. So while you may not have enjoyed the rails or found it worth playing know that many other people did.

Also when there were conflicts it drew players back week after week even when other games were being released because fighting on those rails and for your alliance was fun even if DE wasn't keeping up content-wise with other game releases with no rails...do you know how hard of a hit it has been on XBOX? We got TTK, BO3, H5, FO4, and backwards compatibility all released back to back to back to back to back and the numbers in region chat, in clan/alliance chat in recruitment chat have all severely been hit. When rails were up even when NEW games were being released it was never hit like this. I can tell you from experience. For the simple reason that people wanted to come back and fight on those rails we had people always coming back.

So trust me rails helped the population out.

Once again if you don't like rails that's 100% fine, but don't assume everyone thinks like you.

 

As for the taxes, as long as we have wars there will be taxes. With the armistice it's fine that there are no taxes but if DE lifts the armistice then taxes should rightfully return. It cost resources to deploy and issue battle pay.

Edited November 20, 2015 by (XB1)Lorewalker1022

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

It will have an overhaul later on.Since they're focusing on Pvp for now.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

Overhaul, over-overhaul, I don't care. Just bring it back lolol

[DoomFruit]

@ DoomFruit - Rail conflicts is one of the aspects that made this game so unique compared to a lot of other games. Being able to form alliances and fight other alliances for these nodes is something not a lot of other games have. In fact that is the sole reason why I was attracted to this game because I like games with this functionality and I guarantee you I'm not the only one. In fact when the rails went away a lot of players went away too. I know this because coming from a very large moon alliance we had to do some re-couping and I'm sure you can extrapolate that across the population. So while you may not have enjoyed the rails or found it worth playing know that many other people did.

Also when there were conflicts it drew players back week after week even when other games were being released because fighting on those rails and for your alliance was fun even if DE wasn't keeping up content-wise with other game releases with no rails...do you know how hard of a hit it has been on XBOX? We got TTK, BO3, H5, FO4, and backwards compatibility all released back to back to back to back to back and the numbers in region chat, in clan/alliance chat in recruitment chat have all severely been hit. When rails were up even when NEW games were being released it was never hit like this. I can tell you from experience. For the simple reason that people wanted to come back and fight on those rails we had people always coming back.

So trust me rails helped the population out.

Once again if you don't like rails that's 100% fine, but don't assume everyone thinks like you.

As for the taxes, as long as we have wars there will be taxes. With the armistice it's fine that there are no taxes but if DE lifts the armistice then taxes should rightfully return. It cost resources to deploy and issue battle pay.

That's the Xbone population, and in particular, the population in your clan. What about the other 2 platforms? And what about the silent majority? Sure, your alliance chat might have lit up when rail attacks happened - but don't forget that the sole purpose of alliances is for solar rail conflicts.

What do the rest of the Warframe population think, the silent majority and those who aren't in alliances? Do they want taxes? Did they actually care about who won the rail conflicts?

A large proportion of my clan has basically vanished from the game and I can practically guarantee you that solar rail conflicts being removed had absolutely nothing to do with it. It's player attrition. It happens.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ Doomfruit - did you not read the rest of my post. I also said region chat, recruitment chat all are affected. I have seen it before the armistice, during the armistice. The whole 9 yards. Those chats were all more lively when wars were going on.Not just mine

 

Also what silent majority? You guys are not silent. You guys are always vocally complaining about rails lolol

Edited November 20, 2015 by (XB1)Lorewalker1022

[DoomFruit]

The chats might have been more lively, but that's only because it was the closest thing that Warframe had to news. And it still doesn't address the main point - do the players themselves want to be taxed? How much of that chat was people hoping for less tax?

And yes, perhaps the reason that the majority was not silent this time is because we were fed up with the taxes. It's silent now because things just work.

Edited November 20, 2015 by DoomFruit

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

Look if you guys on PC got charged 99% by a certain alliance. I'm sorry. lolol. Nobody else has felt this. Taxes are reasonable over here.

Edited November 20, 2015 by (XB1)Lorewalker1022

[DoomFruit]

Good for you. But the point *still* remains - why have 20% taxes when we can (and do) have 0%.

Lolol.

[MagPrime]

And with no conflicts, there are no repairs and no need for battle pay.

Right now, you are correct.

 

But when DE ends the armistice, taxes will be a needed thing again. 

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ DoonFruit - Because battling on rails are fun (my opinion)...and I'm willing to pay a tax for that. It's 10-20% virtual tax over here, much better than paying real taxes lol.

[Morec0]

I think when they have had a chance to go over and fully revise how they want the Dark Sectors to work they'll restart the system. Last I heard they were wanting to tweak it a bit.

 

Personally I think dividing the PvP and PvE elements of it into their own separate things will go a long way - a PvP attack/defend phase thing like before, only now using the updated Conclave stylings, and a PvE sabotage mode like the very first incarnation, enhanced by the ability for the Tacticians to choose the defenses, build the layout, and put in things like turrets in a kind of RTS-construction style phase.

[MagPrime]

I think when they have had a chance to go over and fully revise how they want the Dark Sectors to work they'll restart the system. Last I heard they were wanting to tweak it a bit.

 

Personally I think dividing the PvP and PvE elements of it into their own separate things will go a long way - a PvP attack/defend phase thing like before, only now using the updated Conclave stylings, and a PvE sabotage mode like the very first incarnation, enhanced by the ability for the Tacticians to choose the defenses, build the layout, and put in things like turrets in a kind of RTS-construction style phase.

I personally would like a PvP optional setting.  : /  

 

PvP isn't fun to me and was half the reason I stopped playing Dark Sectors in the first place.

[Morec0]

I personally would like a PvP optional setting.  : /  

 

PvP isn't fun to me and was half the reason I stopped playing Dark Sectors in the first place.

 

That's precisely what I'm talking about: you're presented two options, one PvP and the other PvE.

 

The PvP one does more damage, but its going to be more challenging because of the nature of the system and that you're actually up against other players.

 

The PvE one will innately do LESS damage, but it's the easier of the two options.

 

It's a similar thing with what I think should be done with the Balor attacks - the Archwing people do damage, but an on-foot team can go in, exterminate the crew, and add a little bit of time before the Balor manages to close in.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Morec0

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

I think rails should have both PVP and PVE elements with stages that you have to get through and objectives you need to complete.

 

[MagPrime]

That's precisely what I'm talking about: you're presented two options, one PvP and the other PvE.

 

The PvP one does more damage, but its going to be more challenging because of the nature of the system and that you're actually up against other players.

 

The PvE one will innately do LESS damage, but it's the easier of the two options.

Ahhh, okay.

 

That I can get behind!

 

I think rails should have both PVP and PVE elements with stages that you have to get through and objectives you need to complete.

 

The only downside to that is that you're cutting out players that want to play conflicts but either don't like PvP or simply aren't equipped for it.

[Morec0]

Ahhh, okay.

 

That I can get behind!

 

There's ALSO the lore element of why the Tenno are fighting against each other, but I think Teshin can be used to solve that:

 

"Just as the strongest wolf reaps the rewards of the hunt first, so too must the strongest Tenno have the resources to grow.  Attack your opponent's rail, defend your ally's."