Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[viamont]

Changes that need to happen:

 

Stats:

 

HP: Give her previous HP back she needs it

Armor: Increase to 325

 

OR

 

Increase her movement speed from:

 

0.95 TO 1.05

Armor: 255

 

Powers changes:

 

1.- Make it so when enemys die while being covered on spores they explode infecting nearby enemys, this will help her spread her powers without having to HEAVILY rely on punchtrought weapons or her 3

 

2.- Given that pretty much EVERY single saryn user has the "regenerative molt" this syndicate SHOULD be implemented on her permanently, its a must to ensure she has a way to survive, consider its a self buff/heal, it does little for others so i dont se a problem with her being good at surviving by herself. It also needs a range buff, make it around 20 at max range, that way the spores will reach more enemys (and remember spores are DoT they dont make enemys explode imediatly so this is perfectly fine)

 

3.- The damage buff its nice, the added bonus of poping spores its fantastic still this powers needs some QoL changes that will make it great.

a) change it from duration to toggle (applying ALL the rules for that, the more duration the less it costs to keep on)

b) Change the parry damage reduction to all the times active, Mesa can go up to 95% DR, having saryn (a close combat frame) with a 50/60% DR sounds perfectly fine

 

4.- The damage was lowered and i perfectly understand why, the extra 100% damage bonus from toxic and 100% from viral its fantastic, it rewards you for doing extra stuff, still the lowered CC i feel its a bit to much, because of this i have a few propositions to improve miasma WHILE staying away from the press 4 to win mentality:

 

a) When miasma its cast WITHOUT toxic or viral procs the stun duration its increased up to 5 seconds. With this saryn will have a "panic" button to relay on, she wont do as much damage BUT she will have a form of CC and corrosive proc chance wich will make her a reliable debuffer on the battlefield.

 

b) When miasma its cast WITH toxic OR viral the damage its increased acordingly yet the stun duration its decreased by 1 second. With this one proc will reduce the CC efect on 4 seconds and with 2 procs to 3 seconds, with this you have a balance Damage VS utility

 

Miasma ALSO needs a buff on range, increase it to 20 meters on max range, she still needs time to set up her powers

 

Lastly given that the singery of her powers (in my personal opinion) its great YET it consumes TO MUCH energy i sugest this:

 

Molt cost its keept at 50.

When Spores are cast on molt the energy cost its reduced to 15 points.

When Miasma its cast while using a Molt the cost its reduced by 35 points.

 

With this changes the combo cost its reduced from:

 

50 (molt) +25 (spores) +100 (miasma) = 175 points

 

TO

 

50 (molt) +15(spores) + 65 (miasma) = 130 points.

 

This will make using her combos much more manageable (specially for those who DONT have a primed flow). And remember i meen the reduction cost ONLY when the powers are used in convination, when used alone (a simple spore cast on an enemy or a single miasma) the cost are the regular ones

[Shin]

Where is the " Its Complicated" option?

[KoboldPrime]

THX DE. Less press 4 to win and more "weapon role".

 

But, if you really want Draco dead, at least give us a way to level weapons and warframes faster.

 

Like maxed weapons sucking exp instead of sharing with the gear that needs it, for real? Placing 6 forma into every weapon which you love it is really, really, really, really, really, really time consuming...

[(PSN)PhantomReapers]

Wish people stop trying to use simucrum to try to show saryns potential

Edited November 5, 2015 by (PS4)PhantomReapers

[TheBrsrkr]

Once again you ignore any constructive feedback people have posted talk about a thick skull 

THis helps reinforce my point. How about we have less of this:

 

Talk about toxic trolls..

And more of this:

 

Changes that need to happen:

 

Stats:

 

HP: Give her previous HP back she needs it

Armor: Increase to 325

 

OR

 

Increase her movement speed from:

 

0.95 TO 1.05

Armor: 255

 

Powers changes:

 

1.- Make it so when enemys die while being covered on spores they explode infecting nearby enemys, this will help her spread her powers without having to HEAVILY rely on punchtrought weapons or her 3

 

2.- Given that pretty much EVERY single saryn user has the "regenerative molt" this syndicate SHOULD be implemented on her permanently, its a must to ensure she has a way to survive, consider its a self buff/heal, it does little for others so i dont se a problem with her being good at surviving by herself. It also needs a range buff, make it around 20 at max range, that way the spores will reach more enemys (and remember spores are DoT they dont make enemys explode imediatly so this is perfectly fine)

 

3.- The damage buff its nice, the added bonus of poping spores its fantastic still this powers needs some QoL changes that will make it great.

a) change it from duration to toggle (applying ALL the rules for that, the more duration the less it costs to keep on)

b) Change the parry damage reduction to all the times active, Mesa can go up to 95% DR, having saryn (a close combat frame) with a 50/60% DR sounds perfectly fine

 

4.- The damage was lowered and i perfectly understand why, the extra 100% damage bonus from toxic and 100% from viral its fantastic, it rewards you for doing extra stuff, still the lowered CC i feel its a bit to much, because of this i have a few propositions to improve miasma WHILE staying away from the press 4 to win mentality:

 

a) When miasma its cast WITHOUT toxic or viral procs the stun duration its increased up to 5 seconds. With this saryn will have a "panic" button to relay on, she wont do as much damage BUT she will have a form of CC and corrosive proc chance wich will make her a reliable debuffer on the battlefield.

 

b) When miasma its cast WITH toxic OR viral the damage its increased acordingly yet the stun duration its decreased by 1 second. With this one proc will reduce the CC efect on 4 seconds and with 2 procs to 3 seconds, with this you have a balance Damage VS utility

 

Miasma ALSO needs a buff on range, increase it to 20 meters on max range, she still needs time to set up her powers

 

Lastly given that the singery of her powers (in my personal opinion) its great YET it consumes TO MUCH energy i sugest this:

 

Molt cost its keept at 50.

When Spores are cast on molt the energy cost its reduced to 15 points.

When Miasma its cast while using a Molt the cost its reduced by 35 points.

 

With this changes the combo cost its reduced from:

 

50 (molt) +25 (spores) +100 (miasma) = 175 points

 

TO

 

50 (molt) +15(spores) + 65 (miasma) = 130 points.

 

This will make using her combos much more manageable (specially for those who DONT have a primed flow). And remember i meen the reduction cost ONLY when the powers are used in convination, when used alone (a simple spore cast on an enemy or a single miasma) the cost are the regular ones

Edited November 5, 2015 by TheBrsrkr

[DSpite]

 

... don't really outweigh raw damage until enemy levels are past 150-200 in most cases ...

 

Please read that line again and try to free ashamed you even wrote it.

 

Let me know in what games you are allowed to stay in the same room with enemies that are 10x your maximum level, for more then a few milliseconds before reverting into component atoms

 

Will test the new rework later. If it can't handle lvl 100 Heavy Gunners I won't be too happy about it.

 

or look, another one.

[TheBrsrkr]

Wish people stop trying to use simucrum to try to show saryns potential

What's the difference?

[LtZefar]

Saw the new Saryn skin and rushed to check it out. But I was greatly disappointed this wasn't the new look of the Warframe. Not only that but it cost 140+ plat and is a timed exclusive skin. What's the point with that? Don't you want to improve on the game?

 

The old Saryn skin is impossible to color without it looking so wrong. It looks bad too.

 

As for the skill changes, I frankly don't care about those when Saryn just looks so bad. Guess I'll wait for Prime version before I'll use her again. At least that one might have some hope of looking good.

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

 

Saryn Revisited

 

With this update comes a lot of exciting changes to Saryn’s abilities, giving her more synergy between each power and putting more emphasis on her ability to debuff enemies with Viral and Toxin procs.  As always we will continue to monitor Saryn after the launch of this rework.

Please post your feedback in our megathread here:

 

• Spore Revisions
  • Saryn’s Venom Ability has been renamed to Spore.
  • Guaranteed Viral proc on explosion of spores.
  • If current host has a toxin Proc (i.e from Contagion or any other source), it will transfer that proc too.
  • Damage ticks will be done every second, duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • Increase base damage of the ability.
• Molt Revisions
  • Spore can be cast on Molt, infects units which attack Molt.
  • Miasma cast in range of Molt will feed into Molt, creating more damage on explosion.
  • All Spores on Molt Clones will detonate and spread on the clone’s death.
• Toxic Lash Revisions
  • Saryn’s Contagion Ability has been renamed to Toxic Lash.
  • Slightly increased the damage and duration of Toxic Lash.
  • Guaranteed Toxin proc on melee hit.
  • Detonates a Venom spore if the target has one.
  • Damage output scales based on a percent of total damage of melee weapon with Mods, not base.
  • While Toxic Lash is active, there is a bonus damage reduction while blocking. This damage reduction is capped at 90%.
• Miasma Revisions
  • Damage ticks will be done every second, Duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Viral proc (Venom guarantees a Viral proc when exploded).
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Toxin proc (Contagion guarantees a Toxin proc on impact).
  • Enemies hit by Miasma when under the effects of Miasma will have the duration timer reset.
  • Increase base damage overall.
• General Revisions
  • Saryn now has a passive 25% increased Status effect duration.
  • Updated some visual FX on Saryn’s abilities.
  • Saryn can now cast Spore and Toxic Lash while moving.
  • Saryn’s base Armor is now 175.
  • Saryn’s base Health is now 125.
  • Saryn’s maximum Energy is now 150.

 

Saryn's base health should never have been lowered; She's a tank that can hold her own with high HP and never needed that extra armor boost.

In fact, I'd rather have seen her armor get a decrease while keeping HP the same.

 

And can we revert the name of Toxic Lash back to Contagion? I'll never understand that silly change to a less than stellar name lol

 

Her Passive Status Duration should get an increase to %50 while being unaffected by any positive or negative duration mods in order to keep her 1 and 2 still viable when trying to combo with Miasma. This should also include the stun on Miasma.

 

And about the skin for Dual Zoren; This needs to be made available for all weapons of that type.

You may recall during the last time the community flipped, and during internal discussions DE agreed that the "players find value in choice"

 

Thanks DE for usually listening! Not a lot of Devs are like that.

Edited November 5, 2015 by (PS4)Xurokhan

[LilLemay]

I love all the salt, other than that I really like the new rework, she's much better now

[Hauzer]

If you just read their change notes, it sounds like they improved Saryn.

 

In reality, Saryn is probably the worst frame in the game now.  Totally harsh nerf and new play-style that just doesn't work right.

 

I'm sure plenty of people spent the 200 plat on her new visuals before playing her or even reading the changes.  Those of us who didn't, refuse to buy their dumb skins for 165-200p yet and maybe they will hurry up and make some changes.

[CelticMoss]

My old main is mastery fodder

Edited November 5, 2015 by SarahApple

[Anatolius]

Or it could be the fact the with negative duration as the most effective method of producing the damage plus "venom" and "contagion" being near useless in the face of miasma that Saryn was reduced to a press 4 bot because no other kit could compare

 

 

I dunno just a theory.

 

I had to do a couple of tests to see what he abilities did to just one heavy unit. I did a level 80 corrupted bombard to test

Miasma seemed rather lackluster in the face of a bombard. Viral + Toxic slash seemed to build better results over a long period of time.

I was using the dakra at the time. I attempted to avoid the 3rd combo because it kept stealth killing them (with viral proc, they had little health so a stealth finisher was effective).

Rage helped me keep all the energy was I missing while Molt regenerated my health

 

That all being said. That was only one enemy. I fear that alone with no one to back her up, she may be in a sticky situation as Miasma does not stun enemies for very long. Molt helps and you can run away very quickly but that seems to be the only option.

 

Of course with my build I cant say everyone should use it the same with rage but I think a few things like this would be nice:

 

1) Spores should pop under 2 more additional curcumstances: when an enemy dies and when it is hit with melee, regardless of toxic slash.

I use her alot for melee but its still rather expensive to use toxic slash just to spread the proc.

 

2)Miasma should always have a 5 second stun regardless of its buff from toxic or viral

 

3) I kinda feel miasma should be a 75 energy ability now and that it does not tick corrosion enough.

Edited November 6, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[4thSurviver]

I played the new saryn, but the only thing i have to say that the idea of synergy is great, but it's supposed to allow the frame to be stronger when using synergy.  At the moment, saryn is weaker than she was.  You guys need to buff the skills a bit more to make the synergy worth using.

[(PSN)PhantomReapers]

What's the difference?

It's too controlled. I want to see saryns potential in a plausible setting

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

in truth its a scaling buff

 

as now all her powers co use together to deal greater and greater damage 

 

she effectively can toxin/viral targets reduce health and ignore shield, combine with contagion augment for toxin gas and then put in a miasma blast you do a event farther wide spread -DELETE- effect

 

by by all enemies 

 

makes you use every power while also making her more fun

 

i do hope banshee rework is similar :)

[Weltraumfred]

So overall, feedback seems pretty negative. I also think viamont nails it mostly with their suggestions. Yeah, room-killer miasma needed to go urgently. But to do her new shtick, which seems to be mainly melee caster, Saryn needs more armor and her old health of 150 base back. Doesn't matter if she has the highest numbers in the game, she needs those stats to make her shtick work.

 

Also, you might think about adding some more debuff effects on her powers. If Saryn now takes a lot of time killing her enemies, why not Debuff them along the way. Poison weakens its victims, you know. Extended stun in Miasma, like viamont suggested. Or perhaps a little life steal on toxic lash, to help with survivability in Melee. Perhaps a tiny slow effect on the spores (or toxic lash), which I think you mates might appreciate, while shooting your hapless victims.

 

As it is, Saryn is propably going into the garage, and I'll neither drop plats for the skin nor eurobucks for the prime access.

[DrWorm999]

Lost health, energy management is now a nightmare. It's a weird move guys, you completely destroyed my favorite frame, one of the one's I have had the most fun playing, and then you give her this beautiful skin to commemorate the fact that in her current state I don't want to play her anymore. And this is kind of where I sit, as a huge fan of the game, been playing for quite awhile now, almost MR 19, and I'm not talking min/maxing stat stuff, but as a casual player I had loads of FUN playing Saryn before, and now it is definitely not fun. With a primed flow and streamline is still insane trying to keep in energy in a futile attempt to attain synergy. Let's burn through a ton of large energy, hustle a lot more and MAYBE get the same result in dps but it just takes much longer and is more expensive. I don't think this counts as Saryn getting "a lot of love".

also: Saryn my favorite frame, was totally intent on buying her Prime Access pack, in this state would be an insane waste to buy a frame I won't touch.

[Generalsherman]

Just my feedback in a storm of rhetoric. 

 

I'm liking the faux spore mines you can make with a 2+1 Combo but really feel like the health of the frame could use a boost and energy costs dropped. The build is just a little too thigh to make the synergy work at these cast costs. Aside from that the spores could use a little working to make them easier to spread; either make them bigger or make the locations consistent I'm thinking. Overall a decent change that could use a slight adjustment.

 

Just my two cents.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Matches(be it defense, exterminate interception, capture and so on) with one person pressing 4 every 3-5 seconds is dull, boring, and it's certainly not what DE wants out of their game. Period, now if you think it is you'd be probably better playing another game.

 

Um, don't play with saryn then? All frames have some roles-some take damage, some support, some control the field, some deal damage. Fell free to bring for example 4 boobens to exteminate.  Damage frames don't scale well, that aldeady is a drawback to them.

[LOKIME]

SUGGESTION: 

Make TOXIC SLASH toggleable just like valkyr's and excalibur's ultimate to make the ability more fun to use with melee. 

[Weltraumfred]

SUGGESTION: 

Make TOXIC SLASH toggleable just like valkyr's and excalibur's ultimate to make the ability more fun to use with melee. 

 

Yeah, would be a huge QoL improvement.

[Ziegrif]

I've done my tests.

 

This is all against lvl 100 so take it with a grain of salt.

 

Test cases:

Build in vid.

 

General stats:

 

Enemies: 10 Heavy Gunners at lvl 100, 10 Ancient Infested at lvl 100, 10 Bombards at lvl 100.

 

General thoughts. She can survive level 100s by blocking with melee. Her Miasma and Viral procs can be used to eventually wear down armor at  rapid pace. 

 

Against Ancients she has absolutely no problems so I'll assume there are no problems with any infested.

Against Heavy Gunners she can manage as Block takes care of most incoming dmg and you will eventually wear down the Gunners with Corrosive from Miasma and Viral procs.

Against Bombers... Well... I managed about 1 second of 10 lvl 100 heavy bombers missiles. Utterly annihilated. Above my skill level.

 

I ended up using Melee because it had the survivability I needed with block. Also tried Embolist and Ignis modded for Viral but didn't have much success.

 

Spores:

What I like:

- It's AOE. I don't know how but it sure seems to have some sort of AOE.

- It's also one handed cast which is always lovely.

- Guaranteed Viral proc.

What I don't like:

- It doesn't really scale that well from the looks of it aka Dmg is a bit on the low side.

- I have no idea how reliable the AOE effect is. Seems to spread when a spore is popped.

 

What I would change:

Make it scale with weapons. That might be nice.

Make it so weapons like Embolist and Ignis can pop the spores.

 

Molt:

Pros:

- Augment still works.

Cons:

- umm... Honestly? I didn't use it even once.

- Simply does not scale to lvl 100. Doesn't have the durability.

 

What I would change:

Make it scale with enemy level and gain armor at the same rate as a Heavy Gunner does.

 

Toxic Slash:

Pros:

-More dmg to melee. Always nice!

-Can make your block 90% with any melee weapon! Basically what I love the most about the rework.

- More procs! Yay!

- Pops spores! Makes more procs! Yay!

- Has a great duration.

- Scales a bit!

- DMG buffs are greaaaat...

Cons:

- Has a duration. Limiting your good times.

 

What I would change:

 

- I don't know. I rather enjoy it.

- Make it a team buff with no range limiters?

 

Miasma:

Pros:

- Corrosive procs! (I have been informed that this is not the case! Miasma does not Proc Corrosive.)

- A bit of a stun.

- Other than that I got nothing.

Cons:

- Low dmg.

- Low dmg even after absorbing Toxic and Viral procs.

- Does not have Corrosive procs.

- Yeaaaaah...

 

What I would change:

- I would make Miasma reduce enemy armor 10% every tick permanently. Would make it AMAZING for solo long runs.

- Increase the stun duration.

- Give it corrosive procs.

 

That's what I think.

 

Other than that I'd buff her HP and armor. Seriously. That EHP nerf was not funny.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ziegrif

[Kencen]

it would be nice to see some duration increas on spore and miasma abilitys, and would be realy nice that spore will detonate it self after its duration of time or when an effected target dies and spreads to other targets near the effected one

[(PSN)SancticuS]

4 Scorpions, 2 Bombards, 3 heavy gunners, 5 hellions and the rest as regular people. Some of everything. PLus, there isn't much difference besiddes the amount of cover anyway. Sub anything in or out as you wish., Nullifiers? Drones, Juggernauts? The Simaralcum allows uys to recreate any situation almost exactly as it happens.

 

Create a plausible setting.

 

Do a T4 surv 40+ min, T4 mob defense, T4 defense 20+ waves, Draco, Sechura,  Raid, just about any mission where your actually play the game over a extended amount of time while under pressure from constant onslaught of enemies. Theory and practise are quite different things