Very Simple Volt Re-Work, W/ "synergy" !

[Cyandana]

Leave 2 and 3 alone, they provide massive amount of useful utility. No need to bake in any synergy to make balancing the frame harder.

 

1 Changes ) Reduce energy cost slightly. Make each successive cast deal more damage and apply a stacking debuff that increases damage of next cast and gradually applies harsher CC effect. No Stacks = No CC. 1 Stack = Minor Stagger + Blind. 2 = Blast stun/knockdown .

 

4 Changes) Pops all stacks from 1 to deal additional damage. Syndicate mod restores energy on kill.

 

Let's 1 clear trash mobs, provides use for cast speed mod (emperor palpatine build is something we've all wanted since the beginning) and makes ult into actually relevant damage source.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Syadana

[Pride]

why not just give 1 the ripline treatment its CC is already great

1st cast 25 energy 150 damage

2nd cast 12.5 energy 300 damage

3rd cast 6.25 energy 600 damage

all additional casts 6.25 energy 600 damage

 

improves the efficiency of getting a little rowdy without having to go full ult mode

 

as for the ult it could "prime" these electronics to zap them imaging a hybrid of mirages slight of hand with arc traps

 

with this change it would have to stop shorting electronics and allow you to reuse them as traps again.

[Stratego89]

I'm not feeling it. All volt needs is a speed up on the cast time of his overload animation, and a longer stun on it.

 

I could get behind his 1 being cheaper on successive casts and making the stuns add onto each other rather than just reset, but no stun on first hit would be dumb and blind would be straight up OP. His 1 is really fine how it is- it's that good emergency fist full of lightning to let you reload your gun or get away from trouble.

 

His 4 augment as it is is already very useful- despite people (who I assume have not even tried it before slamming on it) saying it's worthless. Restoring energy on kills would be OP early game turning him into another nuke frame just waiting to be nerfed, and late game would fall off- which augment mods should NOT do.

 

Again with this "Make volt into emperor palpatine!" stuff. I wish the star wars hype would pass already... -_-

 

EDIT: DE has said I believe they'll be making tweaks or whatnot to volt. As long as they do not touch his 2 at all and at WORST reduce his electrical buff on his shield to 25%- I'm probably fine with just about anything they do as long as they don't completely ruin him or push him into OP territory so people have a reason to ask for a nerf that'll ruin him later (I'm looking at what happened to excalibur here...).

Edited November 11, 2015 by Stratego89

[Insizer]

Am I the only person who cringes everytime I see and hear the word "synergy" or its derivatives? 

 

The stacking efficiency for Shock might be nice, but screwing with its effects is plain stupid. Getting rid of the stun on the first cast would force a player to cast three times for what they actually want (the stun), making it no longer a panic button or interruptor (which are the primary functions of Shock). Then you toss in blind, which while it could be interesting-ish, again, does not compensate for there being no stun on the first cast. Then you have Blast which could honestly be a downside as it knocks enemies flat and away, making the third useless as an interruptor. You'd also have to keep a count in your head of which cast you are on to determine "is my next cast going to be useless for what I need?" If you want force lightning, I'd petition for an aug mod. Shock is 99% perfect as is.

 

Volt is not a damage caster, nor is he Zeus, nor Palpatine; Volt is a utility/supprt caster. Volt's only purpose to be effective in nearly every circumstance you can throw at him. Need defense? Got it. Need offensive buff? Got it. Need cheap CC? Got it. Need to get from point A to point B? Got it. Need to clear a room at once? Got it * (*terms and conditions may apply). The only things he doesn't have in his kit are healing and energy regen.

I'm not feeling it. All volt needs is a speed up on the cast time of his overload animation, and a longer stun on it.

 

I could get behind his 1 being cheaper on successive casts and making the stuns add onto each other rather than just reset, but no stun on first hit would be dumb and blind would be straight up OP. His 1 is really fine how it is- it's that good emergency fist full of lightning to let you reload your gun or get away from trouble.

 

His 4 augment as it is is already very useful- despite people (who I assume have not even tried it before slamming on it) saying it's worthless. Restoring energy on kills would be OP early game turning him into another nuke frame just waiting to be nerfed, and late game would fall off- which augment mods should NOT do.

 

Again with this "Make volt into emperor palpatine!" stuff. I wish the star wars hype would pass already... -_-

 

EDIT: DE has said I believe they'll be making tweaks or whatnot to volt. As long as they do not touch his 2 at all and at WORST reduce his electrical buff on his shield to 25%- I'm probably fine with just about anything they do as long as they don't completely ruin him or push him into OP territory so people have a reason to ask for a nerf that'll ruin him later (I'm looking at what happened to excalibur here...).

 

Thank you for understanding Volt. Volt really is one of the most complete and balanced frames in the game

 

I am curious though about your "Overload augment is useful" comment. I main Volt, but don't use that aug mod, as I don't see it helpful or as helpful as shocking speed. Could you please tell me more?

[-Onyx-Phalian]

I will admit, Volt's 4 needs a change. I could say why but DE has stated several times that they are already looking at it so I would love to see what they give us.

As for his 1. I have to say that it isn't weak, it is probably one of the most powerful 1 abilities in the entire game. Yes, you can't instantly kill everyone in sight with it but let's be honest, the damage isn't what makes it great. No, what makes it awesome is the Crowd Control. The electric proc from this ability stuns enemies, leaving them vulnerable. Yes, enemies have to be decently close together for the stun to bounce around but the fact that it's so cheap removes that little problem.

[Stratego89]

Thank you for understanding Volt. Volt really is one of the most complete and balanced frames in the game

 

I am curious though about your "Overload augment is useful" comment. I main Volt, but don't use that aug mod, as I don't see it helpful or as helpful as shocking speed. Could you please tell me more?

I know the feeling, nice to see someone else that understands he doesn't need changes for once...

 

I really love the augment. Shocking speed is ok, but I focus volt around his shields more than anything. Using quick movement with the shields for cover, the overload augment added on gives volt (prime, since armor buff is actually REALLY good on him) a lot more durability than you would think it should considering it's just some overshields. It also helps buff the team which I love, since my playstyle is "You can't kill what you can't touch" mixed with "Adapt to support the team without using an actual support role". Put another way, I try to never even get hit and focus on what my team is doing in anything serious so that I can support them no matter what my role is- all my builds are focused around being a balanced, adaptable powerhouse. On Volt I just feel that augment fits that style the best. I have also considered using his Shock augment, but due to the way elemental merges can happen that can actually be bad for some people since it throws off their builds- as opposed to the overload augment that benefits anyone at any time if they are in range- and decided against it in the end.

[Insizer]

I know the feeling, nice to see someone else that understands he doesn't need changes for once...

 

I really love the augment. Shocking speed is ok, but I focus volt around his shields more than anything. Using quick movement with the shields for cover, the overload augment added on gives volt (prime, since armor buff is actually REALLY good on him) a lot more durability than you would think it should considering it's just some overshields. It also helps buff the team which I love, since my playstyle is "You can't kill what you can't touch" mixed with "Adapt to support the team without using an actual support role". Put another way, I try to never even get hit and focus on what my team is doing in anything serious so that I can support them no matter what my role is- all my builds are focused around being a balanced, adaptable powerhouse. On Volt I just feel that augment fits that style the best. I have also considered using his Shock augment, but due to the way elemental merges can happen that can actually be bad for some people since it throws off their builds- as opposed to the overload augment that benefits anyone at any time if they are in range- and decided against it in the end.

Exactly, he really doesn't too much. Having said that, I've made a thread for additions to Volt, but even then I mentioned that Volt is at the bottom of the rework priority list. Some make the reasonable mistake of believing the "alternative to gunplay" description, but then only judge him against that description. I think the most critical thing that Volt needs fixed is his description tbh. Fix that, then you've fixed the metric.

 

Ah, I get it. I usually use Shocking Speed because it functions as a decent panic button if I have multiple enemies within melee range, and for when my goofing off gets me in trouble. All I need is enough space to take one step and things work out. Plus, it is very helpfully with scorpions, cameras, and such. You'd be surprised how useful it is when you have an active playstyle, which I do when the difficulty doesn't demand something more conservative. You'd also be surprised how much fun a Flash joke build is for $&*^ing around, both from playing with it and from watching Rhino run across the map at Mach 2 (Loki hits hypersonic).

[Stratego89]

Exactly, he really doesn't too much. Having said that, I've made a thread for additions to Volt, but even then I mentioned that Volt is at the bottom of the rework priority list. Some make the reasonable mistake of believing the "alternative to gunplay" description, but then only judge him against that description. I think the most critical thing that Volt needs fixed is his description tbh. Fix that, then you've fixed the metric.

100% agree. People look at the description and say an ENTIRE SYSTEM of balance should be changed to match some flavor text- that's completely backwards. It should be Volt is "a potent addition to gunplay" or something instead. Then people will finally lay off him.

[(PSN)oracle-ryuu]

Exactly, he really doesn't too much. Having said that, I've made a thread for additions to Volt, but even then I mentioned that Volt is at the bottom of the rework priority list. Some make the reasonable mistake of believing the "alternative to gunplay" description, but then only judge him against that description. I think the most critical thing that Volt needs fixed is his description tbh. Fix that, then you've fixed the metric.

 

Ah, I get it. I usually use Shocking Speed because it functions as a decent panic button if I have multiple enemies within melee range, and for when my goofing off gets me in trouble. All I need is enough space to take one step and things work out. Plus, it is very helpfully with scorpions, cameras, and such. You'd be surprised how useful it is when you have an active playstyle, which I do when the difficulty doesn't demand something more conservative. You'd also be surprised how much fun a Flash joke build is for $&*^ing around, both from playing with it and from watching Rhino run across the map at Mach 2 (Loki hits hypersonic).

volt really doesn't need a buff AT ALL build him right and his 1 can stun control an entire room, his shield is decent, speed it practical and ult is what it is, a noter good crowd control that does some decent damage also, (but thats not the point)

 

i wouldn't mind seeing what changes they have in mind like if they did modify the first to be a multicast thing. but beyond that he doesn't need much at all. he's already a good frame and always has been.

[chamonglee]

Nah he's bad, he has no one way straight build, no scaling cc, and a laughable shield with buggy as heck effects. Hes a frame that needs a little of everything (range, power, efficiency, and duration) which is SUPER bad to build around without affecting his other abilities drastically leaving u with a lackluster frame with lackluster late game stats. Early game utilities r good, late game utilities r trash, I'm sorry to say it but hes horrible late game. I wouldn't even use him outside of lvl 30 mobs and capture mission

[Aquasurge]

Exactly, he really doesn't too much. Having said that, I've made a thread for additions to Volt, but even then I mentioned that Volt is at the bottom of the rework priority list. Some make the reasonable mistake of believing the "alternative to gunplay" description, but then only judge him against that description. I think the most critical thing that Volt needs fixed is his description tbh. Fix that, then you've fixed the metric.

 

Ah, I get it. I usually use Shocking Speed because it functions as a decent panic button if I have multiple enemies within melee range, and for when my goofing off gets me in trouble. All I need is enough space to take one step and things work out. Plus, it is very helpfully with scorpions, cameras, and such. You'd be surprised how useful it is when you have an active playstyle, which I do when the difficulty doesn't demand something more conservative. You'd also be surprised how much fun a Flash joke build is for $&*^ing around, both from playing with it and from watching Rhino run across the map at Mach 2 (Loki hits hypersonic).

i agree with you and your thread, volt is duct tape (literally).

[Autongnosis]

What imho would make Volt instantly more appealing would be to modify the stun he procs. If that was moddable for (as in increasing the arc range and the stun duration) Volt would be a lot better instantly without changing too much.

[Insizer]

Nah he's bad, he has no one way straight build, no scaling cc, and a laughable shield with buggy as heck effects. Hes a frame that needs a little of everything (range, power, efficiency, and duration) which is SUPER bad to build around without affecting his other abilities drastically leaving u with a lackluster frame with lackluster late game stats. Early game utilities r good, late game utilities r trash, I'm sorry to say it but hes horrible late game. I wouldn't even use him outside of lvl 30 mobs and capture mission

Sarcasm becomes less effective the more blatant it is and longer it goes on.

 

i agree with you and your thread, volt is duct tape (literally).

I'm glad to see that people agree.

[chamonglee]

Sarcasm becomes less effective the more blatant it is and longer it goes on.

Care to correct me? And this isn't Sarcasm it's facts

[Insizer]

Care to correct me? And this isn't Sarcasm it's facts

Because it is pretty much the exact opposite of what you claim (except the defensive stats). He is good because of the things you list as bad. I need to go for now, but I'll respond later with a point by point rejection of your claims.

 

EDIT:

Ok, I'm back. So just to recap, this was your post:

 

Nah he's bad, he has no one way straight build, no scaling cc, and a laughable shield with buggy as heck effects. Hes a frame that needs a little of everything (range, power, efficiency, and duration) which is SUPER bad to build around without affecting his other abilities drastically leaving u with a lackluster frame with lackluster late game stats. Early game utilities r good, late game utilities r trash, I'm sorry to say it but hes horrible late game. I wouldn't even use him outside of lvl 30 mobs and capture mission

Your points are:

1.) That he is hard to build, that you need to build on everything for him to be useful, and that by building on his abilities will ruin his ruin the rest of his abilities.

2.) his CC doesn't scale.

3.) His shield (presumably Electric Shield) is terrible and buggy

4.) He has lack luster stats

5.) Utility is only good for early game and are "trash" for late game. Leaving him useless after level 30.

 

My rebuttal:

4.) Right off the bat I'll concede point 4. Volt (not prime) has low armor, average health, larger shields, average energy pool, and average sprint speed. Put frankly, he is squishy and will have a harder time surviving on higher levels without his abilities (more specifically Electric Shield) and/or excellent weapons.

 

1.) He is very easy to build because it is obvious what is useful and what is not as useful. Build on duration because it directly affects his, arguably, two best abilities (Speed and Electric Shield). By no exaggeration is Electric Shield one of the best defensive abilities in the game, that alone will keep you alive while your allies have fallen. On top of this, his abilities are compartmentalized in terms of their primary functions. That is to say that two of the most important things that Volt has to offer are unaffected by mods (Shock's stun and Electric Shield's defense). I never have a problem modding because of that. That said if either one of those (especially Electric Shield's defense) become a function of something, then yes, I'd definitely have to rethink my builds.

 

2.) The CC in his kit don't rely at all on damage or enemy levels, and scales infinitely. Shock's stun relies on the electrical damage proc which is guaranteed and invariant of everything. Electric Shield rejects all damage, and will not crumble when 5 lvl50 heavy gunners knock on your doorstep. You literally can not be more wrong on this point.

 

3.) Electric Shield is possible the most reliable ability in the game. It always does its primary job (in my mind) regardless of everything else. You only have issues when you are too close and the AOEs of blocked rockets hit you. I've never had reliability issues with Electric Shield so long as the lobby is not hosted from Australia.

 

5.) It is literally the opposite of what you claim. The harder the enemies get, the less effective damage-type abilities are because it doesn't matter how much damage you do if 90% of it is ignored by armor. Barring finisher damage abilities, that leaves you with CC and the, admittedly, broad fields of utility and support. If I am able to incapacitate an enemy or group of enemies regardless of their armor or damage output, or lend my allies almost invulnerable, or buff weapon damage, then I am useful whether I'm facing lvl 1 enemies or lvl 100 enemies. Tell me, how many times have you seen Vauban in Raids vs. say Ember or Mesa?

Edited November 12, 2015 by Insizer

[ThePredicament]

Shock really doesn't need to combo, although it should have a cool side effect like magnetizing enemies a bit which will make bullets and projectiles slightly "home" into them (think: Halo's bullet magnetism without the reticule pull).

 

Speed definitely needs to affect reload speed and maybe even cast speed, capped to around 50% on max strength. Slow status slows both of those things but why not the other way around.

 

Since Overload is pretty much a one shot deal it should do a ton of damage, akin to Ash's ult. This will give it an emergency actual nuke feel.

[chamonglee]

Because it is pretty much the exact opposite of what you claim (except the defensive stats). He is good because of the things you list as bad. I need to go for now, but I'll respond later with a point by point rejection of your claims.

 

EDIT:

Ok, I'm back. So just to recap, this was your post:

 

 

Your points are:

1.) That he is hard to build, that you need to build on everything for him to be useful, and that by building on his abilities will ruin his ruin the rest of his abilities.

2.) his CC doesn't scale.

3.) His shield (presumably Electric Shield) is terrible and buggy

4.) He has lack luster stats

5.) Utility is only good for early game and are "trash" for late game. Leaving him useless after level 30.

 

My rebuttal:

4.) Right off the bat I'll concede point 4. Volt (not prime) has low armor, average health, larger shields, average energy pool, and average sprint speed. Put frankly, he is squishy and will have a harder time surviving on higher levels without his abilities (more specifically Electric Shield) and/or excellent weapons.

 

1.) He is very easy to build because it is obvious what is useful and what is not as useful. Build on duration because it directly affects his, arguably, two best abilities (Speed and Electric Shield). By no exaggeration is Electric Shield one of the best defensive abilities in the game, that alone will keep you alive while your allies have fallen. On top of this, his abilities are compartmentalized in terms of their primary functions. That is to say that two of the most important things that Volt has to offer are unaffected by mods (Shock's stun and Electric Shield's defense). I never have a problem modding because of that. That said if either one of those (especially Electric Shield's defense) become a function of something, then yes, I'd definitely have to rethink my builds.

 

2.) The CC in his kit don't rely at all on damage or enemy levels, and scales infinitely. Shock's stun relies on the electrical damage proc which is guaranteed and invariant of everything. Electric Shield rejects all damage, and will not crumble when 5 lvl50 heavy gunners knock on your doorstep. You literally can not be more wrong on this point.

 

3.) Electric Shield is possible the most reliable ability in the game. It always does its primary job (in my mind) regardless of everything else. You only have issues when you are too close and the AOEs of blocked rockets hit you. I've never had reliability issues with Electric Shield so long as the lobby is not hosted from Australia.

 

5.) It is literally the opposite of what you claim. The harder the enemies get, the less effective damage-type abilities are because it doesn't matter how much damage you do if 90% of it is ignored by armor. Barring finisher damage abilities, that leaves you with CC and the, admittedly, broad fields of utility and support. If I am able to incapacitate an enemy or group of enemies regardless of their armor or damage output, or lend my allies almost invulnerable, or buff weapon damage, then I am useful whether I'm facing lvl 1 enemies or lvl 100 enemies. Tell me, how many times have you seen Vauban in Raids vs. say Ember or Mesa?

 

1) 0 scaling is HORRIBLE late game, who would even think that 0 scaling is good? DO u know y he is underwhelming? Because u feel no change in modding this frame. Electric shield one of the best?! Mediocre, but not one of the BEST. Compare it to Frosts shield and its a laughing stock. Sure u can argue about it being HP based but ive never seen a maxed power frost shield going down faster than a max dur volt shield so HP > Duration, especially when HP stacks. 

 

2 and 3) His CC's scale infinitely? We just established that his CC's DONT SCALE, so how r they now inf scaling? 0 isnt Infinite...and once again his shield doesnt have HP, but it does mean that ur leaving urself vulnerable at EVERY other angle unless u cast it all around u and in this case its too COSTLY, y cast a 75 energy ability 4x for it to become equivalent to 1 frost globe? Lol once again, lackluster...

 

4) Ur right in saying that damage falls off after awhile and then its based on utilities and CC, and in this case, i still wouldnt say Volt is a good choice when ur so far into the game that damage frames dont even hurt, then ur weak volt shield will offer u a false sense of security only to die by either rockets or someone who hits u from a random OPEN angle in ur shields. As for helping allies and buffing damage, i can just use a NOVA lol, why the heck would i use a volt in this?! Heck even banshee's crit buffs r stronger and SCALES. Ur measly base damage boost isnt enough to justify u a spot on the balance train. Tell me how may times have YOU seen a premade group request for a VOLT?

 

In the end he needs a REAL strong role that only HE can play that would make him desirable in ANY team comp, not only CAPTURE missions -_-

[Eftycchia]

1) 0 scaling is HORRIBLE late game, who would even think that 0 scaling is good? DO u know y he is underwhelming? Because u feel no change in modding this frame. Electric shield one of the best?! Mediocre, but not one of the BEST. Compare it to Frosts shield and its a laughing stock. Sure u can argue about it being HP based but ive never seen a maxed power frost shield going down faster than a max dur volt shield so HP > Duration, especially when HP stacks. 

 

2 and 3) His CC's scale infinitely? We just established that his CC's DONT SCALE, so how r they now inf scaling? 0 isnt Infinite...and once again his shield doesnt have HP, but it does mean that ur leaving urself vulnerable at EVERY other angle unless u cast it all around u and in this case its too COSTLY, y cast a 75 energy ability 4x for it to become equivalent to 1 frost globe? Lol once again, lackluster...

 

4) Ur right in saying that damage falls off after awhile and then its based on utilities and CC, and in this case, i still wouldnt say Volt is a good choice when ur so far into the game that damage frames dont even hurt, then ur weak volt shield will offer u a false sense of security only to die by either rockets or someone who hits u from a random OPEN angle in ur shields. As for helping allies and buffing damage, i can just use a NOVA lol, why the heck would i use a volt in this?! Heck even banshee's crit buffs r stronger and SCALES. Ur measly base damage boost isnt enough to justify u a spot on the balance train. Tell me how may times have YOU seen a premade group request for a VOLT?

 

In the end he needs a REAL strong role that only HE can play that would make him desirable in ANY team comp, not only CAPTURE missions -_-

In the end i just carry batteries and speedrun Jordas nerves with him and be useful in Raids while you whine here over and over again talking about how i survive with 0% Armor Integrity. Aside from that, Electric proc stuns are able to stun right after the previous one's animation are finished.

 

He's balanced period, no argument. Unless you want to be that guy and tell everyone to build him a certain way.

inb4 Pre-rework Saryn.

 

Plus, to add up to the argument. CC doesn't even scale in the first place. It's a flat binary value that determines whether or not they're this or that. 0 or 1. Vauban's Bastille, Nova's Molecular Prime slow/speedup, Rhino's Stomp, etc etc.

Edited November 13, 2015 by ViroVeteruscy

[chamonglee]

In the end i just carry batteries and speedrun Jordas nerves with him and be useful in Raids while you whine here over and over again talking about how i survive with 0% Armor Integrity. Aside from that, Electric proc stuns are able to stun right after the previous one's animation are finished.

 

He's balanced period, no argument. Unless you want to be that guy and tell everyone to build him a certain way.

inb4 Pre-rework Saryn.

 

Plus, to add up to the argument. CC doesn't even scale in the first place. It's a flat binary value that determines whether or not they're this or that. 0 or 1. Vauban's Bastille, Nova's Molecular Prime slow/speedup, Rhino's Stomp, etc etc.

 

and what OTHER build can u possibly go for this frame huh? POWER? nope...in the end, all ur good  for is the easy work while others do the real work

[Eftycchia]

and what OTHER build can u possibly go for this frame huh? POWER? nope...in the end, all ur good for is the easy work while others do the real work

I don't follow descriptions of Warframes, sorry.

[chamonglee]

I don't follow descriptions of Warframes, sorry.

oh yea btw CC do scale, as in the DURATION of it but i wouldnt expect u to know that

[Insizer]

1) 0 scaling is HORRIBLE late game, who would even think that 0 scaling is good? DO u know y he is underwhelming? Because u feel no change in modding this frame. Electric shield one of the best?! Mediocre, but not one of the BEST. Compare it to Frosts shield and its a laughing stock. Sure u can argue about it being HP based but ive never seen a maxed power frost shield going down faster than a max dur volt shield so HP > Duration, especially when HP stacks. 

 

2 and 3) His CC's scale infinitely? We just established that his CC's DONT SCALE, so how r they now inf scaling? 0 isnt Infinite...and once again his shield doesnt have HP, but it does mean that ur leaving urself vulnerable at EVERY other angle unless u cast it all around u and in this case its too COSTLY, y cast a 75 energy ability 4x for it to become equivalent to 1 frost globe? Lol once again, lackluster...

 

4) Ur right in saying that damage falls off after awhile and then its based on utilities and CC, and in this case, i still wouldnt say Volt is a good choice when ur so far into the game that damage frames dont even hurt, then ur weak volt shield will offer u a false sense of security only to die by either rockets or someone who hits u from a random OPEN angle in ur shields. As for helping allies and buffing damage, i can just use a NOVA lol, why the heck would i use a volt in this?! Heck even banshee's crit buffs r stronger and SCALES. Ur measly base damage boost isnt enough to justify u a spot on the balance train. Tell me how may times have YOU seen a premade group request for a VOLT?

 

In the end he needs a REAL strong role that only HE can play that would make him desirable in ANY team comp, not only CAPTURE missions -_-

1.) I never said that Shock has 0 scaling, I said that its effective is invariant of enemy scaling (ie: Shock scales infinitely)

2 and 3.) We never established that CC doesn't scale. In fact I said the opposite. His shield scales infinitely because it has no HP, only duration, thus it will not wear down when lvl 60+ enemies start unloading on it. Also, so what if you are left vulnerable from behind, it is better than being vulnerable from in front and behind, plus you can cast another E.Shield if need be. Electric shield may be expensive, but a flow and streamline mod plus proper energy management are more than enough on un-primed Volt, trust me.

4.) I agree, Volt's buffing capacity is not is main use, his defensive and CC capacity is. Also, I have never cared one bit about the damage output of Volt's abilities, that is not his purpose now. It is being able to stun a group of enemies, allowing you to reload, get a few more shots in; being able to erect a shield that blocks everything enemies can unload against it, everything.

 

Again, invariant effectiveness = infinite scaling.

[chamonglee]

1.) I never said that Shock has 0 scaling, I said that its effective is invariant of enemy scaling (ie: Shock scales infinitely)

2 and 3.) We never established that CC doesn't scale. In fact I said the opposite. His shield scales infinitely because it has no HP, only duration, thus it will not wear down when lvl 60+ enemies start unloading on it. Also, so what if you are left vulnerable from behind, it is better than being vulnerable from in front and behind, plus you can cast another E.Shield if need be. Electric shield may be expensive, but a flow and streamline mod plus proper energy management are more than enough on un-primed Volt, trust me.

4.) I agree, Volt's buffing capacity is not is main use, his defensive and CC capacity is. Also, I have never cared one bit about the damage output of Volt's abilities, that is not his purpose now. It is being able to stun a group of enemies, allowing you to reload, get a few more shots in; being able to erect a shield that blocks everything enemies can unload against it, everything.

Again, invariant effectiveness = infinite scaling.

CC works on any level enemies, Volt's shields may not have HP but it does have Duration. An HP based globe that stacks in HP is more than enough to outlast ANY volt shield in any level of gameplay. Volt needs more components in his kit to allow for higher late game scaling. U can't say oh yea volt's 1 stuns so it's balanced, no, many frames provide cc, the only difference is that theirs actually have a scaling factor, volt doesnt, his is flat. And once again u can argue that in this and that situation volt can do this and that, sure, but other frames can do BETTER with LESS EFFORT, sure u can argue that he's not a press4towin frame, but I'd argue it's simply more efficient that a press123123222111333 to win frame. What other frames can do volt can too, with just about 4x the effort, so how is this "balanced"? No strong areas, but a hell of a lot of weak areas I would say, but I'm done here no need to discuss this since it's simply playstyle and tastes so I'll leave u to ur ideas and I'll stick with mine. Pleasure having this discussion. Edited November 14, 2015 by chamonglee

[Insizer]

CC works on any level enemies, Volt's shields may not have HP but it does have Duration. An HP based globe that stacks in HP is more than enough to outlast ANY volt shield in any level of gameplay. Volt needs more components in his kit to allow for higher late game scaling. U can't say oh yea volt's 1 stuns so it's balanced, no, many frames provide cc, the only difference is that theirs actually have a scaling factor, volt doesnt, his is flat. And once again u can argue that in this and that situation volt can do this and that, sure, but other frames can do BETTER with LESS EFFORT, sure u can argue that he's not a press4towin frame, but I'd argue it's simply more efficient that a press123123222111333 to win frame. What other frames can do volt can too, with just about 4x the effort, so how is this "balanced"? No strong areas, but a hell of a lot of weak areas I would say, but I'm done here no need to discuss this since it's simply playstyle and tastes so I'll leave u to ur ideas and I'll stick with mine. Pleasure having this discussion.

No, a HP-based defense will crumble, no matter how many recasts you do, no matter how many stacks you use. Duration-based is better, period because it can take whatever you need it to take, because it can take an infinite amount of damage while an HP-based defense cannot. Shock is not flat, its usefulness is always effective thus scales infinitely, it will always do the same thing to an enemy regardless of its level, it does not need compensation to keep it effective. Other frames may provide better defense, other frames may provide better CC, other frames may provide better buffs, damage, etc; but no other frame can be effective in nearly all of these areas at the same time. Volt can, and that is his charm. He is not the strongest in any field, but he is effective for most things simultaneously. I say he is more built for CC and defense because his damage falls off quickly, and because the usefulness of his CC and defense is obvious.

 

As I said on the other thread, it seems we will never agree, so lets agree to disagree and call it a day.

[(PSN)gatehacker00]

volt really doesn't need a buff AT ALL build him right and his 1 can stun control an entire room, his shield is decent, speed it practical and ult is what it is, a noter good crowd control that does some decent damage also, (but thats not the point)

 

i wouldn't mind seeing what changes they have in mind like if they did modify the first to be a multicast thing. but beyond that he doesn't need much at all. he's already a good frame and always has been.

You should check out my thread. Its not really synergistic but its more of a change in his ultimate to scale in t3 and t4.